Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Belial on May 27, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
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I argue that rounds in this game leave the barrel at 1 velocity and they have the same velocity at impact however far away they land. Same power just how high you aim to hit something further out.
Nemisis argues that they loose killing power at a distance.
Whos right lol?
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Nemisis is correct. Drag reduces the velocity of the rounds. Obviously the drop in lethality is less for explosive rounds as they carry their destruction with them.
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Nemisis is correct. Drag reduces the velocity of the rounds. Obviously the drop in lethality is less for explosive rounds as they carry their destruction with them.
Does that mean there is a distance were an HE round would do more than an AP round?
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That is actually testable, no matter what gun your talking about.
Even with AP rounds out of a tank, pick a ammo bunker. Count the hits it takes to explode it from 100 yards.
Repeat from 2k yards and compare the results.
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Does that mean there is a distance were an HE round would do more than an AP round?
Depends on the type of target and the round.
HE retain their destructive capacity better than solid / AP rounds, which rely fully on kinetic energy. The chemical energy of HE rounds will stay the same regardless of range.
But note that in AH energy loss due to distance is not factored in when shooting against structures (= buildings)
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Depends on the type of target and the round.
HE retain their destructive capacity better than solid / AP rounds, which rely fully on kinetic energy. The chemical energy of HE rounds will stay the same regardless of range.
But note that in AH energy loss due to distance is not factored in when shooting against structures (= buildings)
so i'm wrong?
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so i'm wrong?
Yes. That's why a tank gun has better chances to penetrate enemy armor the closer it gets.
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But I could swear that the damage model wasn't that good I know read it somewhere.
So your saying go get a Tiger and you'll be unstoppable because at 4k nothin has a chance of killin me.
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But I could swear that the damage model wasn't that good I know read it somewhere.
Better don't swear. ;)
You may just remember vaguely what I also said above: Against objects, the damage is a constant, regardless on range.
But against all other targets (planes, boats, GV's), velocity is a big factor. 303's will lose a lot of power past 200yds. Or just test the Panzer 75mm vs the offline Tiger at various ranges. You will notice the difference. Or think why a Hurri D has to get really close to kill a tank....
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No, we're saying that physics are accurately modeled in a game that requires physics to be accurately modeled, LOL.
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stop arguing with a 12 year old...Tweens know everything :aok
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double post
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Ok I believe you lusche.
And hey thanks dunrite <S> love you too
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"So your saying go get a Tiger and you'll be unstoppable because at 4k nothin has a chance of killin me."
Well, nothing on the ground anyway.
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"So your saying go get a Tiger and you'll be unstoppable because at 4k nothin has a chance of killin me."
Well, nothing on the ground anyway.
:lol :aok
Beware the Lancstuka!
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the answer is........rounds in this game only lose power when directed toward the new M-4
(http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics/m4a1.jpg)
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"Obviously the drop in lethality is less for explosive rounds as they carry their destruction with them."
I have understood that e.g. the cannon rounds are all the same, only the speed and mass change, and they lose their effectiveness with range all the same, even despite IRL the Mine round of MG151/20 would retain its chemical power even with range, where as rounds that relied more on kinetic energy would be less effective.
-C+
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Offline, in an M4 75 - rockets at 1500 yards I was unable to damage a tiger.
I put over 20 rounds into it, 90% ricocheted after 20 hits at that range, all AP, there was no apparent damage.
I was setup broadside to the tiger. Seemed to matter not at all where I hit it at that range.
Same setup, same m475mm, again broadside to the tiger, again with AP, range less than 100.
With 4 hits it was smoking and with 2 more it was dead.
Instead of getting the ricochet I'd get the bigger hit flash explosion.
But don't take my word for it, test it yourself.
I'm sure your GV skills are better than mine.
Just use a repeatable test where the only change is the range fired from.
Let us know the results.
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Key Word "Toward"
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i can remember Larry in a tiger, killing another tiger at 4K. both at a standstill!
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It just seems strange to me I have killed and been killed in a Tiger at ranges where the round couldn't have much power still behind them.
From my understanding a Tiger really only has 1 spot where it could be damaged from lets say 3,000 yards...
At 3,000 yards the round has slowed down considerably and the only spot I could see damage being done is the top of the turret.
In the end it seems I was wrong.
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It just seems strange to me I have killed and been killed in a Tiger at ranges where the round couldn't have much power still behind them.
From my understanding a Tiger really only has 1 spot where it could be damaged from lets say 3,000 yards...
At 3,000 yards the round has slowed down considerably and the only spot I could see damage being done is the top of the turret.
In the end it seems I was wrong.
Question: Which tank was killing the tiger? My bet is it was another Tiger or a Firefly, whose cannon is on a very similar level in terms of armor penetration.
Also heavy guns like that to loose energy over 3k, but do not underestimate the level of energy retained. There actually IS still much energy behind them.
Also take the bug into account that has been around for a long time and only been adjusted in the last patch: The trunctuation of shells hitting >70 degrees down to 70 degrees. A bug that particularly came into play at long and very long ranges, when due to the more arching trajectory hits on the turret roof were much more probable.
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I thought HTC posted the balistics when they changed them a while back... Ill go look and see if i can find it ...
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Does that mean there is a distance were an HE round would do more than an AP round?
HE rounds will alwasy do more damage at any range, due to the fact that they have around 6-7lbs of high explosives stuffed inside of them. But they won't penetrate armor, so they can't be used on tanks.
For a little background on this thread:
Belial and I had gotten into a discussion while slugging it out in TT. I said that on the new M4's, a one shot kill isn't guarenteed from an M4 VC at 2000yds, which was about the range most of the engagments were taking place at. Good chance, but not guarenteed.
I think the argument arose when I turreted him with my 75mm sherman, and then killed him when I reupped :devil.
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Thats some weird stuff in your sig snailman your a little twisted.
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Your one to talk Belial. You're not even a bish, and I've seen more rook bomb****s than bish bomb****s.
When bish get pissed they say "screw this, I'm gona go up a tiger". When rooks get pissed, they say "screw this, I'm gona go up an A20".
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Huh? click the thing in his sig...doom mentia and prepare to puke
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the ballistics where change back in 2007 same time the firefly was introduced... I could not find the actual chart that was posted.. It had range and speed of the differant ammo used by tanks in the game oh well
<S>
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Belial, you have been worn last night about the topic from SHawk. He told you the same thing what some people have told you on here. Where is Hitech so he can laugh at you.
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It's no biggie I must have read that about HE rounds somewhere and didn't look close enough.
I can admit when I'm wrong
:)
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There must be some kinetic value to an HE round. In a panzer 4 it takes 15 rounds to kill a VH, sitting beside it or 3200 away. have killed m3's and m8's with HE close up, but no luck at long range even thou the hits were similar placement. So there must be some kinetic value that drops off with increasing range. 3 pounds of TNT is 3 pounds near or far.
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I think it has done so that there is of course a value for chemical power but it functions as kinetic energy i.e. it drops off at distance.
-C+
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HE rounds have both an chemical and a kinetic factor, the kinetic factor does less damage the further away the hit is, the chemical factor is constant.
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Anyone know how many HE rounds a hanger takes to kill? Seems think i put 20 rounds into one before it finally blew up.
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Oh, and can anyone dig up that chart? I wana take a look at it, as it seems like it would be a great help.
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Snailmans sig sounds like Type O negative without the main chords changing...lol
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It has to do with kinetic energy. The equation for kinetic energy = (1/2)*(mass)*(velocty^2).
As you can see, the slower a round gets, due to drag, it loses energy(quickly since it is squared). I'm certain this is all factored into AH, including drag coefficients and air resistance equations, identical to real life physics equations. Creating an online environment that mimics real life physics is the first step to creating a flight sim I would assume.
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Oh, and can anyone dig up that chart? I wana take a look at it, as it seems like it would be a great help.
Go to http://trainers.hitechcreations.com
Look for "Projectile Strength Analysis"
You will find the exact values needed to destroy any object in offline mode. Go Options/Arena Settings/Objects/Object settings. All values are given as fractions of 1000lbs.
The tables that can be found on HTC help website as well as the Trainer Corps homepage have the values rounded up.
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Comparison between HTC and Tony Williams' numbers
HTC: 20mm Hispano Mk II / 20mm M2 4.0300
T.Williams: Hispano Mk II 200, Mk V 240
HTC: 20mm MG 151/20 3.5500
T.Williams: 204
HTC: 20mm MG-FF 3.2500
T:Williams: 120
-C+
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Anyone know how many HE rounds a hanger takes to kill? Seems think i put 20 rounds into one before it finally blew up.
it depends on the tank being used... if your using a tiger it is less than 15 if your using a T34/76 it is more... with a panzer it is 15...
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Ah, got it. I had it to within 4 rds, but I never knew the exact numbers. What is it for the M4A3 (both models if you please)?
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I keep on my guns set at very close range. When I am in the B25, I usually have all those set at 400 due to high number of rounds (unless they are :lol - :lol ones, aka rubber) of hitting the target.