Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 05:40:40 PM

Title: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 05:40:40 PM
I hear that the Il-2 and hurri IID use AP rounds, and that the Yak-9T, P-39, and osti use HE rounds. If all this is true, why is it that hits to the back of a panzer at a range of 400yds all look the same? Shouldn't the Il-2 and Hurri IID produce a hit sprite like you get with the single shot cannons on the tanks, instead of a flash (I guess that this is the explotion) and a small swirl of smoke?
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 06:01:45 PM
I hear that the Il-2 and hurri IID use AP rounds, and that the Yak-9T, P-39, and osti use HE rounds. If all this is true, why is it that hits to the back of a panzer at a range of 400yds all look the same?

Because it's just a hit sprite.


If the Il-2 would shoot HE only... how could the 23mm version kill Panzer & M4's (incl Firefly) that easily, while even the 110 with the 4x20 + 2x30mm can not? How could the 37mm version and the 40mm HurriD kill every tank with a few hits, while a P-39 or a Yak-t could spend a hundred of rounds on a tiger at same angle & distance without any effect? ;)
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Bronk on June 02, 2010, 06:09:56 PM
LMAO
nemisis you are persistent I'll give you that.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: E25280 on June 02, 2010, 06:11:46 PM
OMG he has found a windmill . . .

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290277.0.html
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 06:13:52 PM
I've been messed with too many times as a newb to blindly believe that anything I see here is the truth. Belial thought that the damage an AP round caused remained the same regardless of range, and he didn't believe me when I told him otherwise (to explain my ignorance of the Il-2, I spend very little of my time in attack aircraft), so why should I take what you say on faith?
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Bronk on June 02, 2010, 06:14:51 PM
OMG he has found a windmill . . .

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290277.0.html

Could be worst, he could be whining about the collision model. :noid :D
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Bronk on June 02, 2010, 06:17:40 PM
I've been messed with too many times as a newb to blindly believe that anything I see here is the truth. Belial thought that the damage an AP round caused remained the same regardless of range, and he didn't believe me when I told him otherwise (to explain my ignorance of the Il-2, I spend very little of my time in attack aircraft), so why should I take what you say on faith?
Well lusche is probably one of the most informative posters here on this bb when it comes to the game (see his many posts). I just like tank plinking and like to help those who also enjoy it. ;)
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: E25280 on June 02, 2010, 07:07:17 PM
I've been messed with too many times as a newb to blindly believe that anything I see here is the truth. Belial thought that the damage an AP round caused remained the same regardless of range, and he didn't believe me when I told him otherwise (to explain my ignorance of the Il-2, I spend very little of my time in attack aircraft), so why should I take what you say on faith?
If you are hesitant to "blindly believe" or "take on faith" what someone says, then why 1) would you post a question where you would have to decide whicn answers to take on faith 2) would you not simply test it for yourself as suggested by one of the people you are doubting?
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: AirFlyer on June 02, 2010, 08:06:15 PM
Probably because the forums are still a lot more reliable then say 200, that and certain things aren't really that easy to test such as if the IL-2 uses AP rounds.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 08:12:05 PM
that and certain things aren't really that easy to test such as if the IL-2 uses AP rounds.

Oh, this particular case isn't that difficult. You have two planes with the same cannon, but different ammo. The Il-2 /37mm and the Yak-9t. The offline Tiger is waiting (but dont forget to change ammo multiplier to 10 in arena settings ;).
Blow 5 or so Tigers up with the IL, then do the same with the Yak...

And you can always double check that with the various books and web info on those planes & waepons, and particularly armor penetration data & such.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 08:17:58 PM
which I have done lusche. Checked the penetration tables, and sure enough, said it could pierce 50-something mm of armor at 500yds.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: AirFlyer on June 02, 2010, 08:57:12 PM
Oh, this particular case isn't that difficult. You have two planes with the same cannon, but different ammo. The Il-2 /37mm and the Yak-9t. The offline Tiger is waiting (but dont forget to change ammo multiplier to 10 in arena settings ;).
Blow 5 or so Tigers up with the IL, then do the same with the Yak...

And you can always double check that with the various books and web info on those planes & waepons, and particularly armor penetration data & such.

I can agree with checking various online/book sources but even guns of the same caliber can have large difference in muzzle velocity / armor penetration and I'm not sure if I would trust testing in such a way. Unless of course they are the same gun but I'm not familiar with Russian weaponry.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Ghosth on June 02, 2010, 09:01:48 PM
There is an "easy" way to test this.

Offline, roll a yak9t (37mm with HE) taxi up to a ord bunker. Count how many rounds it takes to blow up the bunker.

Roll an iL2 (37mm with AP) taxi up to an ord bunker, count how many rounds it takes to blow up the bunker.

Note, can be point blank range, doesn't matter.

HE will do it in 2 or 3 shots.
AP will take dozen or more. (Because all AP has is kinetic energy, good for penetrating armor, poor for blowing stuff up)
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 09:10:21 PM
Offline, roll a yak9t (37mm with HE) taxi up to a ord bunker. Count how many rounds it takes to blow up the bunker.

Roll an iL2 (37mm with AP) taxi up to an ord bunker, count how many rounds it takes to blow up the bunker.


Both guns have the same damagin capability vs objects. I once tested them vs hangar, took me ~160 rounds in both planes.
Does that automatically  mean the have the same properties vs tanks?  ;)

Of course you could expect that, but you only get clarity if you actually test it against tough armored target, as the offline Tiger is.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 03, 2010, 12:19:17 AM
So.... the 40mm from the Hurricane IID is HE or AP?  Either way, I have more success with it than the IL-2.  I'm more patient with the Hurri IID, I take longer lanes of flight, only fire 2-3 volleys within 400 yards (convergence is set to 300).

I avoid FLAK like the plague, though.  In an IL-2, I'll at least try to ping the turret from way out in left field.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Bronk on June 03, 2010, 04:51:45 AM
So.... the 40mm from the Hurricane IID is HE or AP? 
AP, but much lower velocity than the IL2's cannon.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Lusche on June 03, 2010, 05:00:30 AM
The actual numbers:

NS-37, 37mm: projectile weight 760g, muzzle velocity 880m/s, muzzle energy 294KJ
Vickers Class S, 40mm: 1130g, 615m/s, 214KJ

BK 3,7: 405g, 1140 m/s, 263KJ
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Noir on June 06, 2010, 04:27:29 AM
ho and try deacking in IL2...fail  :D
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: KgB on June 27, 2010, 02:16:33 AM
So.... the 40mm from the Hurricane IID is HE or AP?  Either way, I have more success with it than the IL-2.  I'm more patient with the Hurri IID, I take longer lanes of flight, only fire 2-3 volleys within 400 yards (convergence is set to 300).

I avoid FLAK like the plague, though.  In an IL-2, I'll at least try to ping the turret from way out in left field.
I've destroyed tigers with singe burst from IL-2 cannons, I'm not sure if you can do the same with hurryIID. In a dive attacking ground targets "plan" your convergence ahead because by the time your rounds reach the target you are too far or too close depending on weapon you using.

Kage
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Bronk on June 27, 2010, 05:47:39 AM
I've destroyed tigers with singe burst from IL-2 cannons, I'm not sure if you can do the same with hurryIID. In a dive attacking ground targets "plan" your convergence ahead because by the time your rounds reach the target you are too far or too close depending on weapon you using.

Kage
If you get lucky with your shot placement you can.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Enker on July 03, 2010, 04:09:34 AM
Hurricane IID uses AP rounds, IL-2's 37mm uses HE. There was a whole thread on this back when the IL-2 got the 37mm package added to it. The 23mm is AP though, I think.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Lusche on July 03, 2010, 04:11:05 AM
IL-2's 37mm uses HE.


No it's not. It is AP.

If it where, you would plink tigers all day with it just like the Yak 9T does (who's cannon actually uses HE). But unlike the Yak, the Il-2 will kill the tiger with just a few rounds.
Title: Re: Does the Il-2 use AP rounds?
Post by: Bronk on July 03, 2010, 06:29:47 AM

No it's not. It is AP.

If it where, you would plink tigers all day with it just like the Yak 9T does (who's cannon actually uses HE). But unlike the Yak, the Il-2 will kill the tiger with just a few rounds.
What he said. :P