Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on July 12, 2001, 02:21:00 AM
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Well, to begin with, I am against having jet fighters in the game. Although I know they will come in if HTC deems it so, and the vast majority of players seem to support it, I think it is a bad idea, for a few reasons.
1. The conditions that prompted their existance do NOT exist in the MA. The german jet fighters were designed to attack large formations of bombers, moving in one direction, at high altitude. The largest formation I have ever seen, personally, in the MA, was about 12 B-17s with fighter escort. They were on the deck, in an attempt to make a NOE raid. The raid was shot to pieces (but it was hella fun, that was pretty cool). Nine times out of ten, bombers fly in "formations" of less than 3 bombers. Probably eight times out of ten, it is a solo bomber, with no escort. A jet fighter would be absolutely useless against a single bomber, its speed would literally work against it. The bomber would have no problem manuevering out of the line of attack, the jet would be merely a nuisance. The jet could slow down to 250 mph, but it would wallow like a pig, and it would be quite vulnerable to not only the buff, but to any enemy fighters that happened to wander by. Since the jet fighters would (more than likely) be very expensive perk-wise, I don't think anyone would take a chance and slow down to the point where they could manuever with the bomber.
2. Since the Germans would have jets, which of course everyone would think were "super leet" (even though they are in actuality quite useless), the Allies would press for more advanced planes with which to run the jets down with. These planes would be the 1945-1946 planes that never saw action (with the exception of the 47n [or M, can't remember]. So the customers that enjoy flying non-allied planes would be relegated to flying obsolete planes, much like "early-war" planes that are in the set right now. While it is quite likely that these new planes would be perked as well, they would not be as heavily perked as the jet fighters, even though they would still be quite useful in the MA. I think this would lead to more than a little frustration amoung us "limpwristed Luftwhiners", and possibly some others as well.
I'll have to add more numbers later, I can't think of any right now. Feel free to add your comments for or against jet fighters, or anything else.
On a totally unrelated note (well, not really, since it came to me while typing this out)- I want to ask a question. For all the gnashing of teeth over the number of planes per country, why does it really matter? The Japanese "plane-set" consists of 3 planes- only 1 of which sees a lot of regular use. I am sure I don't have to tell you which one. The Russian plane-set consists of 3 planes, only 1 of which sees any regular use (though the Yak is catching on, I've been flying it a little myself- nice plane). The British plane-set consists of .. hum. Help me out here- 6 planes? 7? Again, only one of which sees any regular use. Taken together, those 3 plane sets have 3 of the 6 most often used planes in the game, not to shabby as far as I am concerned. Anyways, to continue. The Germans have 9 planes (I think), only 2 of them see any regular use. The Americans have a bunch to (9 as well?), only one of which sees a lot of use- unless you count in the C-Hog, then it would be two. Actually, the D hog sees a fair amount of use as well, so maybe we can say 2 American planes, and 3 with the C-hog.
As far as "diversity" goes- that is a fat load of garbage as far as I am concerned. There will be no diversity in the MA - EVER. Actually, that is not *quite* true. You will always have individuals who enjoy flying a particular plane, because they happen to like the plane. I know that is why I fly the LW birds - not because they are the best at anything, but because for some odd reason I enjoy flying them. I am sure the same holds true for probably 1% of the MA population. The other 99% fly a plane because it is the "best" at something (and this is pure supposition, not grounded in scientific fact at all). I can divide the population of the MA into 3 groups-
1. The Spits- The "best" turners.
2. The P51D,G10, and D9 - the "best" runners.
3. The Niki crowd - the "best" mix, in other words, the "best" or "most superior" plane there is, in the plane set. The C-Hog crowd fits into this category as well, before the perking of the plane.
The 1% that I see as different I'm not even going to bother to classify, as I am not sure that I could. And before someone brings it up- yes, you can look at my stats. I DO have 20 kills in the Niki (I flew it for 2 days at the beginning of the tour, once I got tired of them shooting me down). I DO have about 20 kills in the 109G10. However, I don't RUN in the plane as is so common with G10,D9, and 51D pilots.
Furthermore, I DO have 30ish kills in the 190a8, which is hardly a common plane in the arena, and if you look at last tours stats, you'll see I flew the 190a5 and the 190a8 the vast majority of the time.
What I don't understand is why people think that adding different planes will add "diversity" to the MA- I don't think it will. Unless the new plane is faster than a G10,D9, or 51D; turns better than a spit, or can kill 80% of enemy planes 1v1 regardless of E state or pilot skill, it won't be used by 99% of the people in the MA.
Anyways, the time for my rambling has come to an end. I welcome all comments, and I <S> anyone that read through the whole thing. If you have something to say, whether you agree or disagree, let me know. Nothing makes me feel better than a long thread that I started (makes me feel important, hehe ;) ) <S> all, g'night.
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Good points.
<S>!
:)
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Urchin,
Question: How am I going to write "New Years Day" without the Arado and 262?
These ac mostly used for events.
In the main I take perk rides up sometimes its cool. Sometimes you need a 262 to go after buffs attacking your HQ. Relax.. You won't see alot of jets.
10Bears
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Heh exchange "LA-7" for "G-10" and I'm with you.
I see a lot of LA-7's running, but not so many 109s.
Then again, I do not encounter many 109s.
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Then again, I do not encounter many 109s.
change side :)
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The Japanese "plane-set" consists of 3 planes- only 1 of which sees a lot of regular use.
The Zeke sees alot of action too. It is used more than either of the LW leaders. Remember... don't just look at kills... look at deaths too. Ironically, the Ki-61 has the best K/D of the group.
The Japanese "plane-set" consists of 3 planes- only 1 of which sees a lot of regular use.
Once again, the Yak-9U is virtually identical to the Dora in fighter kills. I imagine the dora will beat it in bomber kills <just checked.. it does 253 to 126>, but really matches it in K/D and total kills against fighters.
The British plane-set consists of .. hum. Help me out here- 6 planes? Again, only one of which sees any regular use.
The SpitV is used considerably too... its the 5th most popular plane right now. It also leads both of the LW planes.
The Germans have 9 planes (I think), only 2 of them see any regular use.
Not really "regular use".. though two are used more than the others. Ironically... its the fastest 109 and fastest 190 that get used the most. Though... I'm sure nobody using these planes has ever uttered the word "runstang". ;)
The Americans have a bunch to (9 as well?), only one of which sees a lot of use- unless you count in the C-Hog, then it would be two. Actually, the D hog sees a fair amount of use as well, so maybe we can say 2 American planes, and 3 with the C-hog.
Actually... there would be 5 planes. The F6F-5 and P-38L are used just as much as the LW planes, though they don't really get as many kills. Once again.. don't forget to look at the deaths column.
I kinda think that directly reflects the primary demographics of the game.
As far as "diversity" goes- that is a fat load of garbage as far as I am concerned. There will be no diversity in the MA - EVER.
Out of 160 kills, I've killed 40 different types of aircraft. How much more diverse do you want?
BTW Urchin.. I couldn't help but notice that in all your wanderings (onesy twosy tries of aircrafts)... you seldomely tried the lesser used planes from any country. Were you expecting everyone else to provide this diversity ;)
Fly what you like, like what you fly.
AKDejaVu
[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
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I don't know what impact if at all a 262 would bring. Someone has perk points and maybe they will use them, I sure dont have any.
Actually, I have seen 2 perk planes this tour. 1 jetbomber thing, and a Tempest that I snuck up on and actually killed.
The cost of the current planes keeps them out of reach for me, lord knows Ill never get a 262.
Besides, would you rather have a fleet of 9 shiny blue cannon equipped F4UC's, or one goofy looking TA152>?
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1. As for jets being unmaneuverable, and wallowing like pigs... well the He-162, maneuvers quite well at speeds of 250 - 350, as does the 262, although the turn radius is not the same.
2. You should also take into account the fact that there were other jets besides the german ones on the scene at the same time during the war. Dehavilland's Dh100 MkI Vampire was flying in early 1943, with production started in '44. Gloster's Meteor was seeing combat against the buzz bombs in 44. As was the P-80 in 1945.
3. Regardless of the perk point cost of the aircraft, there is no precedence for keeping them out. They definitely should be added as an option for those who desire to fly them. The only counter I can see is that it will force those who like to be bop on up into the stratosphere to keep there eyes better peeled as a 560 knot jet comes screaming by. And even at those speeds, with 4 - 30mm cannons, I need one pass on a buff, and it is dead.
So as far as I am concerned, let there be jets, and let there be a better fully balanced perk sytem, and we will see what happens in the MA, I am sure more interesting plane usage for sure.
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Whilst I'm keen to see AH expand towards earlier rather than later planes, I still don't agree with your statement.
Actually, your objections of the 262 v. buffs apply equally to a Zeke. How in the world do you hit one? And the longer you try, the more it's sucking your hard to regain E. We had the 262 in AW, on occasion; I loved it, both for and against. Flown right (and it's much, much harder than a Ta-152) and you're unkillable. Flown wrong, you're dead quicker than a gooney. And that's with AW's plane set...
Further more, there were other roles than soley hi-alt fighter predicted for the 262, Hitler's obdurate insistance it should be a Jabo being well known.
Additionaly, there were other jets of the era. The Meteor is the best known of the 262's contemporaries,and actualy saw service; but the Jappanese were working on their version of the 262 by the wars end, and I beleive the P80 was flying by '45.
I'm still hoping for the Hurricane; but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like a jet too.
Hopefully, given enough time, HTC will model just about anything that flew from the birth of flight to the present day; at which point we'll definately be looking at either rolling plane sets or seperate arenas; but note this doesn't explicitly imply historic gameplay.
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I do not believe that the "vast majority" of players want the 262 in the game. I believe the opposite is true
The 262 would not be "quite useless" in the MA. In WB on jet day it was a real drag for anyone not flying em. sure... u could avoid em but you spent your whole time avoiding jets and on occassion getting vultched when you weren't paying attention. Killing em was just luck or a really stupid mistake on their part. No one ever fought a jet in WB unless it was with another jet. u either avoided em or got luck or they got rally stupid. How fun is that?
To get some use out of a lot of the planes in the current and future AH we will have to go to some kind of RPS or "area" arena. It's that simple. The idiotic perk system only works in the negative. It can prevent people from flying specific planes but all the problems it tried to solve remain.
lazs
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Actually, my desire to have fleshed out planesets for each country is related directly to the Snapshots, Chk 6, and multiframe events. As long as I see more than one or two plane types in the MA, I'm happy with that. The MA should remain fly what you want. The change I'd like to see are perk points reduced for the Ta152, Arado and Tempest. The CHog perk point isn't that much, IMO, and the perk served the purpose of making it a little less common in the MA. It's still out there though. :)
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i'm not sure where you fly , but i see people flying all types of planes, also i turn fight with my pee51, sometimes i even win
44MAG
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I'm getting tired of watching the MA get faster and faster. Not only is that making it nearly impossible to enjoy aircraft like the Zero, but it will make aircraft that were successful in reality sitting ducks in the MA. The Tu-2 and Mosquito FB.VI were both very successful low-to-mid altitude strike aircraft, but that was against Fw190As and Bf109G-6s. Since most aircraft you'll run into in AH can do 370-400mph at those altitudes, both of them would be easy prey at their mediocre 345mph.
There is, unfortunately, no fast aircraft in AH that I really enjoy flying. The best of the lot is the Fw190D-9, but that is far lower on my list than things like the Spitfire, Zero and, hopefully in the future, Mosquito.
However, I find myself flying the Fw190D-9 more and just to compete with the speed that is now standard in the MA.
If we absolutely must have jet fighters, please, please let it not start with the Me262. Let the first two, introduced simultaneously, be the He162A and the Meteor MkIII so that we may have something new.
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Me-262 was a legend, Just like Me-109, P-51D, Spitfires etc.
Without it any game having later war planes isn't complete.
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Don't know why people think N1K2(Hey,got it right for once Pyro)..) is such a super plane..For me,my Spit does everything better except run(which they usually try to do in the end but too late)and kills them everytime.262's will make a nice perk ride too except nobody will use them like they were meant to..ie..bomber intercept.Who would risk 100 perks(my guess) on closing on a b17?Great for scenarios I would guess.Maybe if they had something like a graded cost system,where if you were ranked in the top 100(half cost),top 50(1/4 cost),top 10(free ride..most 262 Pilots were LW elite,this would add incentive and immersion imho)..<Salutes!>
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Heh exchange "LA-7" for "G-10" and I'm with you.
I see a lot of LA-7's running, but not so many 109s.
Then again, I do not encounter many 109s.
I rather agree with you on this, but I couldn't decide where to put the LA-7. t does either belong in the "runner" category, or in the "niki" category. The LA7 is quite a formidable plane- I expect we will see it's usage go up dramatically as "word gets out", so to speak.
Ironically, the Ki-61 has the best K/D of the group.
I noticed this as well, Deja, and I don't know quite what to make of it. I've flown the Ki on a couple occasions, but I haven't really flown in it, if you know what I mean. I'll have to try it out.
Once again, the Yak-9U is virtually identical to the Dora in fighter kills. I imagine the dora will beat it in bomber kills <just checked.. it does 253 to 126>, but really matches it in K/D and total kills against fighters.
Yes, I didn't check the stats before I posted it- but I say that the Yak was seeing some use as well ;-). It really IS quite a nice plane.
The SpitV is used considerably too... its the 5th most popular plane right now. It also leads both of the LW planes.
Didn't even look- thanks for pointing that out. I have a tendency to lump all the "spits" together since that is what the icon says.
Not really "regular use".. though two are used more than the others. Ironically... its the fastest 109 and fastest 190 that get used the most. Though... I'm sure nobody using these planes has ever uttered the word "runstang".
<Shrug> you are absolutely right about them being less common in the MA than the other common planes. But since we are on the topic of diversity, why doesn't HTC put in a German plane that people will use? And before you ask, no I have no idea what that might be. Also, about the "runstangness" of those two- people actually try to run from me quite often when I fight them, I just usually catch them.
Actually... there would be 5 planes. The F6F-5 and P-38L are used just as much as the LW planes, though they don't really get as many kills. Once again.. don't forget to look at the deaths column.
I kinda think that directly reflects the primary demographics of the game.
I think the p38 must be going through some sort of rebirth- I hadn't noticed many of them, but I do see 2 or 3 a day this tour. The F6F (and the F4U-D) are both "conditional" planes. I see a LOT of them when someone is making a carrier attack on a base (because they carrier ordinance)- and I hardly see any at all if it is a landbased attack. This, I might add, does NOT match up with the C-Hog, you used to be able to see hordes of those no matter what kind of attack it was.
BTW Urchin.. I couldn't help but notice that in all your wanderings (onesy twosy tries of aircrafts)... you seldomely tried the lesser used planes from any country. Were you expecting everyone else to provide this diversity
I've flown every aircraft this game has to offer. Some I try once and discard (F4U, F6F, P51)- some I play with a little more (Yak, for instance, or p47). I DO primarily fly the German planes, that is a given. I actually think I fly the German planes better than any other aircraft, because I have gotten to know their characteristics (especially the 109, still learning the 190). But to answer your question, I am actually thinking that next tour I am going to do something a little different. I am going to go down the list of aircraft and fly them in order, until I die in them. Then I am going to start over, until the next tour. I think I'll have a little more fun that way, and get to learn the aircraft a little better.
Out of 160 kills, I've killed 40 different types of aircraft. How much more diverse do you want?
But the only fighters you have more than 3 kills against are the Niki, Spit, and La7. I think that says something in itself.
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Me-262 was a legend, Just like Me-109, P-51D, Spitfires etc.
Without it any game having later war planes isn't complete.
Staga, I agree with you that it was a legend. I don't agree that it is nescesary in the game.
Don't know why people think N1K2(Hey,got it right for once Pyro)..) is such a super plane..For me,my Spit does everything better except run(which they usually try to do in the end but too late)and kills them everytime.262's will make a nice perk ride too except nobody will use them like they were meant to..ie..bomber intercept.Who would risk 100 perks(my guess) on closing on a b17?Great for scenarios I would guess.Maybe if they had something like a graded cost system,where if you were ranked in the top 100(half cost),top 50(1/4 cost),top 10(free ride..most 262 Pilots were LW elite,this would add incentive and immersion imho)..<Salutes!>
The Spitfire is one of the planes the Niki has a hard time with. That alone could account for some of its popularity. The Niki does hold an edge over the Spit, and that is speed- the Niki can choose when to engage, and when to disengage. Against the Niki, a lot of planes don't have that option- the exception being all the planes in my "runner" category. All of those can run from a Niki.
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I'm never against the development of new planes, especially if it improves scenario play. But do all planes have to be made available in the MA? AW rarely had the 262's enabled in the arenas, it seems that could be a workable solution here as well and perhaps further enticement to participate in the organized events.
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Originally posted by Hornet:
But do all planes have to be made available in the MA? AW rarely had the 262's enabled in the arenas, it seems that could be a workable solution here as well <snip>
That is the reason for perk points, right? It takes an arena-unbalancing plane and makes it cost a little something to fly. I have no problem with 262's showing up in the arena. If the current perk set is any indicator of the future, then all they are gonna be are dweeb magnets. I guarantee you that each time you are in one, you will attract a crowd that will attempt to chase you down until you run out of fuel or try to land...whichever comes first.
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btw Me-262 will propably have 30mm MK-108 cannons = Big Boom but you need to be REALLY close to target.
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But the only fighters you have more than 3 kills against are the Niki, Spit, and La7. I think that says something in itself.
Yes.. it says you have an incredible case of tunnelvision. I have more than three kills against Spit9, SpitV, La-5, La-7, A6M5, N1K2, 109G-10, F4u-1C, F4u-1D, F6F-5, P-38L, P-51D, B-17, LVTA2, LVTA4, and C-47.
AKDejaVu
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My 2 cents:
I'm not against jets as long as they have a limited period of use at the end of the tour (jet WE?).
I agree that the perk system is unsatisfactory. I believe that some kind of RPS based on history AND gameplay (to give each plane its chance) would be better (maybe more of this later in an another post). IMO, perk system is viable if combined with RPS to limit use of rarely seen planes like F4U-1C, Fw190 D9 (hell, I love this one, I'm shooting myself in the foot)...and jets.
OTOH, a sentence read in the original post made me jump:
I DO have about 20 kills in the 109G10. However, I don't RUN in the plane as is so common with G10,D9, and 51D pilots.
Well, I'm sorry to deprive some of you of your illusions, but other people aren't here to play the game like you would them to play it and get shot down to please you: as you surely know, every plane you 'fly' (don't like the word, it's only a game) has its advantages and disadvantages. Trainers say you have to exploit your advantages AND the disadvantages of your opponent. For me it means: you can't hope to win the fight but your plane is faster (or climbs better): YOU RUN! I don't see the need to give a free kill to an opponent. The other guy follows you deep into your territory and gets shot down by you or somebody else: it's his own fault. He lacked tactical sense.
This kind of remark reminds me of a channel 1 call from some player (I don't even remember his handle) yelling at enemy bombers because THEY WERE FLYING TOO HIGH...
:rolleyes:
For the guys who want fair fights with rules, etc, I suggest H2H. MA or historical scenarios risk to be very frustrating to them.
I know I sound harsh, but I'm getting tired of this PC crowd looking down at you because you run when caught in a difficult position or don't enter the merge guns cold.
Blood pressure back to normal now...
de Selys
PS: I should add that I'm not proning a 'gaming the game' attitude. I wont use un-historical techniques like carbombing or suicide attacks (with the exception of japanese planes ;) ). But I won't yell at players doing it...they paid their 30$ too, after all.
[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
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Originally posted by Seeker:
Hopefully, given enough time, HTC will model just about anything that flew from the birth of flight to the present day; at which point we'll definately be looking at either rolling plane sets or seperate arenas; but note this doesn't explicitly imply historic gameplay.
I they do put all planes in,but forgot about the rolling plane set,wouldn't it be funny to take an f-16 down with a spit :)
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Yes.. it says you have an incredible case of tunnelvision. I have more than three kills against Spit9, SpitV, La-5, La-7, A6M5, N1K2, 109G-10, F4u-1C, F4u-1D, F6F-5, P-38L, P-51D, B-17, LVTA2, LVTA4, and C-47.
AKDejaVu
Actually, I have the worst case of Retard-vision <TM>. I was looking at the damn DEATHS column, not the kills column. My apoligies for being a handsomehunk. LOL.. I don't believe I looked in the wrong column.
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DeSelys- I have nothing against people who "fly to life" as they put it. I wouldn't even say I "look down" on people who run when they get in a bad situation, or who go guns hot at the merge. Hell, in the MA, I go guns hot if the situation warrants it- I usually manuever to get on the bandit's tail off the merge though, instead of trying for an often difficult shot.
What I DO have a problem with, and I'll admit that this is strictly a personal issue, are people who fly Doras and P51s that ONLY engage if they have an altitude advantage and/or a numbers advantage, and then once they realize they aren't good enough to bounce me when I know they are there, run off. It just gets damn aggravating after a while, if you know what I mean. I've noticed this becoming increasingly common as time goes on (I've only been playing AH for 3 months though, so I am no expert).
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Hello Urchin,
I won't say I do what you're describing every time, but when I'm in a Dora or a Pony and I feel the guy below is better/smarter than me, I run indeed, and use that last bit of alt advantage to increase separation.
Example: I fought yesterday against Sirloin who was defending a field. We were both in Spit IX and I quickly saw that I wasn't facing a dweeb. He scared the beejezus out of me a couple of time, until I was able to get away and rtb to land a 0 kill sortie (letting him kill our goon about to capture the field, still biting my fingers when I think of it...). We talked it out a bit later... <S> again, Sirloin. My name isn't in your kill log, but we both know you were the winner.
I can understand you're frustrated when seeing this, but nothing prevents you to leave the low alt furballs to roam the skies looking for some prey. Kills don't come very often, but I prefer a 10 kills streak than 100 kills and 90 deaths. My way to enjoy the game....
de Selys
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The beauty of this game is it's abililty to give such a broad spectrum of pleasure to such a broad spectrum of players with diffrent flying styles.
Picture it at the Best A/C potatohouse and Flight Sim in Texas, Right Now; Worldwide. (sm)
.. Wanna B&Z, stay live, run like hell; emulate Bubbi Hartmann or Gabby Gabreski?... we got the planes fer you.
.. Wanna bomb the enemy's High Command to the stone age?? step right up..
.. Care to furball.. line up here; no waiting. Laz will be with you inna second, sir. :)
.. think yer slick enuff to run a complex armor attack.. or better yet; jabo armor into scrap metal? Eggs we got fer u.
.. Would you like a little whine with your cheezy gripes? We got that too.
.. Tired of the same 'ol mud movin?? Join the Navy; see the world, and capture it. Or die trying.
.. Chasing sheep your thing? They ain't baaaaaaad in here folks, not baaaaaaaaaaad at all. ;)
.. Ok; so yah think that oriental nooky's gettin a litte old? Wanna try something big and flashy?? Sir, we have Jugs right over here...
Folks.. it's "What's the beef?" Not "Where's the beef?" :)
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LOL Hangtime :D ! <S>
de Selys
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hang is correct.. we do have the best of choice and variety that is possible with the resourses we have. karnak is correct also as am i and the 262 issure rearing it's ugly head is just a peek at the crumbling foundation.
We can't continue to make the game a faster and faster game and phase out the slower planes. Most really great planes like P40, spit1, f4f, 109e Mosquito etc, have been misscarried or aborted because we have no place for em in the current MA. these planes were not only "legends" but real legends... they actually had an affect every day in large numbers but.... The town isn't big enough for early and late war planes in the same MA. We need a coupla days at the beggining of the tour to fly these great and fun (can u say "fun" in this thread?) early war rides.
urchin... you want a fun LW plane that will get used... There weren't any... with the exception of the 109E... A plane that would be a blast to fly but... unless it is in an RPS it will be useless. Put the super planes in an RPS for say the last day or 3 of the tour too.
lazs
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Laz I'm sure you'll be able to turn'n'burn in furball in 262 too...
You like to furball so maybe you don't like to see a fast flying plane you couldn't catch but if someone likes to boom in battle and zoom out dragging chain of Spits and Nikies behind him why shouldn't he get what he wants ?
Oh but then that person wouldn't fly like "Furballers" want him to fly: Keeping fast plane turning around and around so tb'ers with Spits and Nikies could have a chance to catch it ?
Yep, that must be it.
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LOL @ Hangtime :D
deSelys, S!. You maybe a newbie, but a class act as well. :)
Cheers,
Pepe
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Originally posted by Pepe:
deSelys, S!. You maybe a newbie, but a class act as well. :)
Newbie my ass, that guy is a killer. I winged with him in a Russian scenario a while back. We both lived and got several kills to boot.
Class act, killer in the sky, and a damn fine stick.
S! deSelys!
-SW
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Ooops,
Sorry, didn't mean that, as I've never faced him :o
What I wanted to say (blame my English ;)) is that nevermind wether he's a newbie or not, etc.
Sorry again, deSelys.
Thks SW, I stand corrected :)
Cheers,
Pepe
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I said that in jest Pepe. Not to insult you or what you thought he was, but just to get that out there. ;)
S! Pepe
-SW
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Please, guys...I'm blushing! :o
SW, to be correct, I lived through the scenario but without scoring any kill for one simple reason...YOU KILLED THEM ALL! :D
I only could pick one miserable assist and force another one to ditch...
A possible RPS for the planes we have now in AH (trying to combine history and gameplay)
Week 1:
A6M5b (perked 10)
109 F4
Spit V
Seafire
La-5 FN
C.202
TBM
Ju88
C47
Il2(perked 5)
all vehicles/ships/field guns
Week 2:
A6M5b (no perk)
109 G2
C.205
190A5 (perk 5)
Spit IX (perk 5)
P47 D11
Typhoon (perk 10)
Il2 (no perk)
B17
B26
Lanc
Week 3:
109 G6
F6F5
F4U-1D
190 A5 (no perk)
190 A8
190 F8
Ki-61
Spit IX (no perk)
P38L
P51B
P47D25
Yak9T
Typhoon (no perk)
Week 4:
109G10
F4U-1C (perk 10)
190 D9 (perk 10)
La-7
N1K2-1 (perk 10)
P47D30
P51D
Ta 152 (perk 30)
Tempest (perk 20..Tempest saw more service than Ta 152...)
Yak 9U
Ar234 (perk 20)
This is only a proposition...let's brainstorm a bit about this!
de Selys
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This is kind of unusual. For months we've had threads of "Please add...", and now we have someone saying "Please, do't you dare add....".
I'm a buff-dweeb. I'm that Lancaster you've all shot down at some time...and chances are, I've also clobbered your radar a few times :D I'm also recalling that when the perk planes, like the Arado, were first announced, people in here were going fanatical (please, y'll don't have amnesia, do ya?). A jet bomber, oh my god, they'll be ARMADAS of them in the air, knocking down bases left and right. But how many have you seen? Not many. What about the Tempest and Ta-152(U-2 winged thing)...I've only seen 2 Tempests and 1 Ta-152 since they were introduced.
My point is this, here we are, once again over-reacting about something that isn't even out yet. The Me-262 is a legendary bird, much as the P-38, P-51 and others are. To not have it would be silly. We all know it's going to be perked, and we also know that the perked airplanes are fairly rare in the Main Arena.
I don't see what the big deal is about the idea of jets being in the game. Its the same old argument between those who want historical battles versus folks (like me) who just want all the aircraft of that era available to fly and fight in.
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I don't think the rolling plane set would work well here- for instance in week 1 there are no U.S. fighters, and only one in week 2. A lot of folks here are americans, and they enjoy flying American planes. Anyways, that is about all I have to say.
Also, I wouldn't mind having the 109E series in the game, even though it would probably be slower than the spitV and spitIX. For now I settle for the 109F4 when I want to fly an early war bird.
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They say a well flown P51 can roam the arena with near impunity (they are correct). A poorly flown Me262 makes the Runstang look likes its going backwards!
Having these things available would be wonderful but if a system doesnt somehow manage how they are enabled then the whole game would be impacted like no other conceivable single fighter of the era.
Also, once the 262 makes it what about the Ameri, brit and soviet counterparts.
Jets can be implimented. Pyro can figure out how.
Y
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I like that rolling plane-set idea with the modified perks,but we need more early war planes or all you'll see are Spit V's.I beleive this will eventually happen,but until we get F4f,Spit1a/II,Hurricanes,P40,109emil etc..it won't work that well. ;) :p :D
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staga.. you are either not paying attention or not very bright. The difference between wanting to furball with planes of parity and wanting to have an untouchable plane in an arena of planes hundreds of mph slower should be obvious to even you. If I want to fight planes of equal abilities then everyone has a good time. If you want to boom and zoom with impunity then you are being selfish and ruining a lot of peoples fun.
The 262 would limit variety not add to it. If it, and other uber fast planes were allowed the last few days of the tour it would lessen the unfairness but then you wouldn't be able to have a huge unfair advantage that u crave so much would you?
lastly.... if more planes is what we are after then we are going the wrong way in any case. There are far more viable (against contemperaries) early war planes to model.
urchin... the rps would cover say 39 to 42 for early war say. That would include U.S. planes. An f4f-3 or p40 would be a great (and fair) fite for a 109E or zeke. why not have a few days or more of early war at the beggining of the tour?
lazs
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I agree with you on the Rolling Plane Set- I think it would be REALLY neat. However, I don't think it is a very popular idea around here at this time, so it probably would not be put in by HTC. I'd LOVE to see a P40 put in, just like I'd enjoy having the Bf110 (even though it would suck hehe), the .303 versions of the Hurricane and Spitfire, a 109E, and a P39 (always thought these planes were cool). Also wouldn't mind seeing some early war French planes, just to flesh out the set. I'm a big fan of the early to mid war planes, just about all of em. I'd even fly the spitfire armed with the 8X.303s, suck as it may.
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Maybe early-war arena ?
I would like to see P-39 and -40, 109E, Hurricane, Stuka, Ju-88 ( :D), Wellington, DB-3, LaGG-3, MiG-3, Morane etc in a arena where they doesn't have to fight against late war speedsters :)
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I think we should lay off the late war planes and bring in the early war planes. I am tired of playing late war scenarios I would like to see a P40 or a Mossquito but this is not the post for it.
I would like to add one more plane to your run list its the Typhoon, I've been flying it regularly this tour I rather like its "extending" cappabilities. But I do agree that the 262 would be cannon fodder in the MA but I do think a 161 or what ever its called would be ok at about 80perks but I would like to see more bombers first and more japanese planes or more CV bombers like the Dauntless and the KATE and the VAL.
But thats just my oppinion. :cool:
Hodo
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Early war planes are indeed needed if we want to have a decent RPS. But don't forget that american planes weren't available much during 39-40 (american pilots were flying spits, while RAf used P40 and mis-used P39). oh, I almost forgot the Curtiss H.75 during France Campaign. So the guy who only want to fly american iron may be a bit browned off every first week of the month....
I'm all in for a RPS covering whole war, but I still believe that splitting the player between a late war arena and an early one would be a big mistake: less crowd in both arenas, especially in the latter. If I'm right, building new arenas caused a real crisis inside the AW community.
Just count me in amongst the guys who want more early war planes before we get jets and other 2000-3000 Hp treats. Then 262 will be welcome for the end of the RPS (perked).
de Selys
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i used to kill 262's a lot with the a6m5 in wb :D :rolleyes:
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staga... how about a late war/fast plane only arena instead?
Guys.. the f4f-3 was flying in august of '40 It was fixed wing, light and very fast on the deck and had good climb (around 3400fpm) it was a better plane than the -4 except for lack of armour and self sealing tanks (they were retrofitted in 41)
urchin, I love early and mid war planes myself and yawn at most late war "fights" but... I don't think that all that many like early war sooo.. have early war only a day or four (it can be adjusted) in the begginng of the tour. The bulk of the people like mid war... it has the best selection of planes with parity and variety.. make it the bulk of the tour.. 90% o9r so... let the jets and other freaks fly a day or so at the end.
It just appears that HTc is painting themselves in a corner here by adding later and later and faster and faster planes.
lazs
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<Bodhi>
2. You should also take into account the fact that there were other jets besides the german ones on the scene at the same time during the war. Dehavilland's Dh100 MkI Vampire was flying in early 1943, with production started in '44. Gloster's Meteor was seeing combat against the buzz bombs in 44. As was the P-80 in 1945.
The Vampire was a cool plane but I didn't think it had the capacity to make it across channel AND fight until late 45?
[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]
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Originally posted by lazs1:
staga... how about a late war/fast plane only arena instead?
Guys.. the f4f-3 was flying in august of '40 It was fixed wing, light and very fast on the deck and had good climb (around 3400fpm) it was a better plane than the -4 except for lack of armour and self sealing tanks (they were retrofitted in 41)
urchin, I love early and mid war planes myself and yawn at most late war "fights" but... I don't think that all that many like early war sooo.. have early war only a day or four (it can be adjusted) in the begginng of the tour. The bulk of the people like mid war... it has the best selection of planes with parity and variety.. make it the bulk of the tour.. 90% o9r so... let the jets and other freaks fly a day or so at the end.
It just appears that HTc is painting themselves in a corner here by adding later and later and faster and faster planes.
lazs
Good ideas lazs. I really would enjoy early war rides against other early rides. However, I like flying a variety of planes so limiting the early war only set to a few days appeals to me as I can still be a Spit dweeb after a few days, tho if you gave me a Spit I, I'd fly it in the early war set.
Like I said before, I'd really enjoy seeing the early war planes get modelled so we can use them in the Snapshots and Chk 6! events (yeah, I know this doesn't appeal to you that much lazs, but hey, you might enjoy a Midway scenario with F4Fs and early Zekes!)
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How can you say no to this stubby little fighter?
(http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/database/aircraft/showimage.php?id=1206)
(http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/wildcat-lexdupont.jpg)
I'd be happy even with it in British colors as a Martlet:
(http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/database/aircraft/showimage.php?id=886)
Just gimme a damned F4F-3!!!
-SW
[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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It's not as good as a P-40, but if we got an F4F with the yeller wings, I'd be almost as happy.
anRky
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I'm surprised you didn't notice what's in the background of the Martlett (F4F-3 in Brit colors) picture anRky...
Squint a little and I think you'll see something you want as well. ;)
-SW
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Oooh, I didn't notice. And it's got a yeller nose, too!
anRky
(likes yellow on airplanes--it's one of the few colors I can actually see :) )