Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Slate on June 07, 2010, 03:11:39 PM
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Lame behavior has been desrcibed in great detail on these boards and complaining doesn't stop the behavior. What may make the difference is the lamers fellow countrymen not enabling the behavior.
There has been several instances of late of spies giving info to thier home country of CV locations or other base intel. It's pretty obvious when a CV 3 sectors from it's port and 6 sectors from any enemy base is found at the same time it's port is taken. (Also 6 sectors from the enemy) Every country has lame as people and they should be called out because it affects the overall health of the game.
Cheating in this way is no better than hacking into HTC's mainframe. (at least in WWII spies could be shot.)
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The question is do you consider spying to be cheating or just lame.
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Not sure what you are asking here, or are you just making a statement?
I have had people on other countries P.M. me info about missions or CV locations in the past. I politely reply to never send such things to me again and of course never act on the info.
Once the WidowMakers were flying about in 262's scouring the map for a CV that the nme had hidden from us. Did this for an hour or two and never found it. I decided to log for the night, changed countries, and typed "Ah HA! There it is!" on squad.
Funny thing, nobody in my squad asked me where it was, nor did it occur to me to tell them.
There is nothing that HiTech can do about players that lack morality and do such dweeby things.
It reminds me of a quote from Dwight D. Eisenhower...
We have never stopped sin by passing laws; and in the same way, we are not going to take a great moral ideal and achieve it merely by law.
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What lame dinkus takes the time to do something that retarded? If winz teh warz is that important, turn off the computer and go outside for a while, read a book, do something to increase the shoesize IQ.
Must be a lot of Forrest Gumps around AH.
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Wmlute I respect those that put down those spying. Several times in our country we told those that would do it that it was lame. I do believe it is Cheating for this is a game we are playing and HTC has tried to limit it with a time limit to switching sides.
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WE ARE WATCHING YOU!
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k83/garyconaway/Squirrels/squirrelcamera.jpg)
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It's pretty obvious when a CV 3 sectors from it's port and 6 sectors from any enemy base is found at the same time it's port is taken. (Also 6 sectors from the enemy)
6 sectors from ANY enemy base? On which map?
It could happen if the CV was spotted while en route to the base, announced on country channel, and attackers lifted off.
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Qy4iftwk5JM/Sb6kWCZgclI/AAAAAAAAGfY/0PZTP0MrtnY/s400/spy-vs-spy.jpg)
Sounds like..."Counter Intelligence".
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Its not cheating it "gaming the game" and yes it is very lame. Seems to be only the ones so focused on the base take that do these things. I know its part of the game and accept it but its still very LAME
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I wont give a CV location away because that helps end fights, unless its being hidden way back where. CVs in game should be used for closing on a base where there is a long distance from a further airfield.
Now spying in general...................... .............ALL FOR IT :rock
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Its not cheating it "gaming the game" and yes it is very lame. Seems to be only the ones so focused on the base take that do these things. I know its part of the game and accept it but its still very LAME
not really gaming the game truly...how many spies were there for WWII let alone over the years during wars?
Yes spying takes fairness out of gameplay, but to many spying is just another strategy here. It was done in real life, i can be done here...
I am not saying im backing spying. It is one thing i have never done and will never do <S>
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not really gaming the game truly...how many spies were there for WWII let alone over the years during wars?
Yes spying takes fairness out of gameplay, but to many spying is just another strategy here. It was done in real life, i can be done here...
I am not saying im backing spying. It is one thing i have never done and will never do <S>
Grumpy is right, it is gaming the game. Spying is not a feature of the game, this game is about recreating ground and aerial combat using WW2 vehicles. If this game was a simulation of WW2 then I would agree that spying wouldn't be gaming the game as it was a part of WW2 but since this game doesn't, it clearly falls in to the gaming the game category.
ack-ack
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Grumpy is right, it is gaming the game. Spying is not a feature of the game, this game is about recreating ground and aerial combat using WW2 vehicles. If this game was a simulation of WW2 then I would agree that spying wouldn't be gaming the game as it was a part of WW2 but since this game doesn't, it clearly falls in to the gaming the game category.
ack-ack
i see your point. but many will not
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Been a lot of talk about this type of activity. I have told other players more than once who have started to offer up that kind of info I dont want to hear it. 3/4 of our squad got voice and chat suspended for mass reporting someone who did it once. When we questioned HTC, it was explained that it isnt cheating... but rather "Gaming the game" as has already been mentioned. So it was in fact us that ended up being in the wrong.
The best advice I can give to those of us who frown on this type of behavior is to not make use of it, and squelch those that offer it up. When they stop getting a response to their intel, and no one will respond to them at all... they will eventually quit. Well... that's the theory anyway.
But then again... summer is almost here. The "gameyness" factor is about to increase by at least 25% when school lets out.
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I've had folks PM me with info on a mission..... I always announce on 200 that there is a (rook, bish, knit) mission up that has a spy named (whoever) PMing info. I never use info from folks who try to ruin the game.
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not really gaming the game truly...how many spies were there for WWII let alone over the years during wars?
Yes spying takes fairness out of gameplay, but to many spying is just another strategy here. It was done in real life, i can be done here...
I am not saying im backing spying. It is one thing i have never done and will never do <S>
:airplane: HOs were done in real life also but listen to the whines if it is done here.
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:airplane: HOs were done in real life also but listen to the whines if it is done here.
Here you have the option to fight because it is a game. If you lose you get a new plane. If you don't want to play the game why even try to fly.
You actually have the chance to improve by at least trying to fight.
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Here you have the option to fight because it is a game. If you lose you get a new plane. If you don't want to play the game why even try to fly.
You actually have the chance to improve by at least trying to fight.
:airplane: agreed Shuff, just saying, because someone else said spying was done in real life so it is ok to do here was my only point. Hoing was done in real life so why not do it here. To me it takes a lot of the fun out of the battle. Only a couple of situations I do it. 1 is if the town is all down and M3s and goons rolling and it is a desperate attempt to save base. 2 is after a couple time trying to avoid the ho and other person keeps doing it I will finally do it if I am in a plane that I am pretty sure can win the ho.
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How the Hell did we go from Spying to God Blessed Hoing in the same thread.
Holy Crap.
Idiots.
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How the Hell did we go from Spying to God Blessed Hoing in the same thread.
Holy Crap.
Idiots.
You know it always goes that way.
froger
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:airplane: agreed Shuff, just saying, because someone else said spying was done in real life so it is ok to do here was my only point. Hoing was done in real life so why not do it here. To me it takes a lot of the fun out of the battle. Only a couple of situations I do it. 1 is if the town is all down and M3s and goons rolling and it is a desperate attempt to save base. 2 is after a couple time trying to avoid the ho and other person keeps doing it I will finally do it if I am in a plane that I am pretty sure can win the ho.
yet again, HOing is a noob tactic or last act of desparation most of the time, but when i need to HO i do it... And if i see a guy coming head on with me, i shoot first and ask questions later. If i get whined at, i tell them i wasnt taking the chance of getting shot down because of "honor". I learned long ago not to care about HOs, they happen. They always will, shoot the HOer first and get out alive...
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I have had people on other countries P.M. me info about missions or CV locations in the past. I politely reply to never send such things to me again and of course never act on the info.
Ditto. My policy always.
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Well the flying tigers hoed Japanese planes plenty of times. They we're risking lives in that tactic obviously. hoeing works you get a good shot and without maneuvering. I just think people hate getting killed by the more inexperienced players because then they get made fun of it. It's just a game though after all so who cares if you get hoed or not anyway. You can't really except not to get killed.
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Any way you cut it, it's gaming the game, borderline cheating. There is no recourse the people on the side being spied upon to stop a spy. There is no risk, there is nothing to be done about it other than ridicule them publically, which I believe would be a fine thing to do.
Wiley.
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What lame dinkus takes the time to do something that retarded? If winz teh warz is that important, turn off the computer and go outside for a while, read a book, do something to increase the shoesize IQ.
Must be a lot of Forrest Gumps around AH.
Cheating, not cheating, you play to fight,right, well fight and shut up or go outside (dont forget your helmet) like gyrene81 said. :aok
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Hiding carriers is in it self lame and "gaming-the-game". I support anything that helps mitigating such lameness. Good players on all teams should help each other out to prevent lameness in our game. Sometimes that requires some fraternization.
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I have had people on other countries P.M. me info about missions or CV locations in the past. I politely reply to never send such things to me again and of course never act on the info.
That's actually a good policy, one that I should adopt moving forward. Up until now when I do get the occasional PM I've just ignored it and gone about my business.
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Well the flying tigers hoed Japanese planes plenty of times. They we're risking lives in that tactic obviously. hoeing works you get a good shot and without maneuvering. I just think people hate getting killed by the more inexperienced players because then they get made fun of it. It's just a game though after all so who cares if you get hoed or not anyway. You can't really except not to get killed.
Spoken like a true player that is seriously lacking in any skill.
ack-ack
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Yes, there were spies in WW2, and what was done to them if they were caught?
I think friendly fire should be turned off for such a player for one month, and their dot should always appear on dar for a month, no matter the radar range or alt.
Maybe with a special yellow colour.
So all can see him, and all can shoot him with impunity.
Hell, give him a 10 mile icon too, with range always on, even in a GV.
its great that someone wants to play historically and be a spy. But there is a price if you are caught.
If they do it and never tell anyone, or do it and keep it tight between them and other like minded idiots, well and good.
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If spying to find the location of CV's is gaming the game, lame, cheating or whatever.... it's not very far in character from capturing enemy CV's and sending them off to remote locations "just in case" the original owners recapture their port. Not long ago I saw 3 CV's (could have been more) having been captured by Rooks tooling around where they couldn't be found. Sure, it makes sense in a strategic manner but it seems to happen most often in off hours... no or not many defenders around to notice or even care, so it's gaming the game too.
The maps are too freekin big to make much of a difference with hiding cv's anyway.
T.
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Yes, there were spies in WW2, and what was done to them if they were caught?
I think friendly fire should be turned off for such a player for one month, and their dot should always appear on dar for a month, no matter the radar range or alt.
Maybe with a special yellow colour.
So all can see him, and all can shoot him with impunity.
Hell, give him a 10 mile icon too, with range always on, even in a GV.
That's just downright mean...I like it! :aok
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How the Hell did we go from Spying to God Blessed Hoing in the same thread.
Holy Crap.
Idiots.
:airplane: Wow, wish I your intelligence then I would
not be an "Idiot"
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Spoken like a true player that is seriously lacking in any skill.
ack-ack
Hey, hey, now. The man's got a point, especially when he speaks to the "whining" part. Experienced players who get killed by HOs have no excuses, and no license to whine, because they're letting themselves get killed by noobs who are making themselves easy, easy targets. Remember, noob HOers aren't just taking zero-degree-deflection snapshots; they're flying like it's Doom, trying to keep their piper on the target all the way through the merge. This makes them the most hilariously inept, predictable opponent in the whole game, and any "experienced" pilot should know percisely how to milk them for easy kills, every time. (I won't presume to lecture the likes of you with the basic ACM theory involved in that, of course, you've probably forgotten more then I ever knew.)
Now the issue of metagamers messing up CV fights is different; there's very little you can do to stop them from spoiling the game. I'm sure High Tech would discourage such activity, but it'd require real-time monitoring of in-game comms, and I don't think they have enough staff for that kind of thing. Still, you might take screenshots of it, and HighTech might log that info on their servers. If we're going to start throwing around the word "cheat," I think we should consult the Law on standing policy before we go too much further.
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Men from every country sometimes share in a "common good." CV hiders are bad people, and the IAAHFF (International Association of Aces High Freedom Flyers) always ban together to find these CV's, and kill them!!!
Other than that, I do not believe that spying is a normal part of game-play and certainly not worth any real consideration.
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yes i agree but i can see the other guys point of view :old:
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not really gaming the game truly...how many spies were there for WWII let alone over the years during wars?
Yes spying takes fairness out of gameplay, but to many spying is just another strategy here. It was done in real life, i can be done here...
I am not saying im backing spying. It is one thing i have never done and will never do <S>
Well how can you say that it's not "gaming the game"? The game is only about combat and "spying" is NOT modeled in Aces High. IMHO , spying is not just "gaming the game', it's just dishonest. Spying is not a valid strategy, just as diplomacy is not a valid strategy, and global logistics are not a strategic resource or we would have anti-shipping warfare in the game. The whole thing is that it's about combat and not simulating the warfare or the geo-political aspects of warfare in general. The community should not condone nor encourage the act of "spying'. as it's a definite detriment to the game as a whole.
All the Best...
Jay
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Bottom line is this...
You find you were given too much change at a store.
Some of us will return the money.
(even if it means driving across town)
Some will think "neat! free money!" and keep it.
It all boils down to personal ethics.
Either you have 'em or you don't.
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doesnt happen very often but last week I got pmd an enemy CV location by a player on bish (usually a knit). as usual I replied that we dont use spy info, told my squaddies who it was (not the info tho) and forgot about it.
about an hour later 5 of us went NOE to a rook base, about 2 sectors flight. 5 miles out from the dar ring we see some darbar appear at the base and since its not a frontline base assume they are buffs upping. 2 miles inside the dar ring and we see 2 spit XVIs and a N1K at 5k heading straight for us.
so much for karma :rolleyes:
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Well how can you say that it's not "gaming the game"? The game is only about combat and "spying" is NOT modeled in Aces High. IMHO , spying is not just "gaming the game', it's just dishonest. Spying is not a valid strategy, just as diplomacy is not a valid strategy, and global logistics are not a strategic resource or we would have anti-shipping warfare in the game. The whole thing is that it's about combat and not simulating the warfare or the geo-political aspects of warfare in general. The community should not condone nor encourage the act of "spying'. as it's a definite detriment to the game as a whole.
All the Best...
Jay
Relaying info across country lines is lame, as is hiding CVs in the back of the map.
Hiding carriers is gaming the game too. Not much about combat involved in doing that, huh?
Don't think they "did it in the war". :lol
:salute to the CV hunters who find those sissy carrier fleets hiding in the corner.
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seems to me everyone knows the CV's are sitting in the corner any way, so whats the point. The idea of "saving" the CV by hiding it is lame. Even if you want to use a carrier to assault a base some A-hole comes along and moves it right back to the corner like its "their" game. Our only hope is that someone with a higher rank will prevail and not allow this "gaming". You Richard craniums ought to be ashamed of yourselves, but I guess that would take a certain amount of maturity.
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I dont have a problem with "hiding" CVs - seems a reasonable tactic to me. if you want to find em just recce in a 234, the puffy ack will help you locate it :)
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Bottom line is this...
You find you were given too much change at a store.
Some of us will return the money.
(even if it means driving across town)
Some will think "neat! free money!" and keep it.
It all boils down to personal ethics.
Either you have 'em or you don't.
an ethical man knows whats right. a moral man DOES whats right.
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Its not cheating it "gaming the game" and yes it is very lame. Seems to be only the ones so focused on the base take that do these things.
Hmmm... let's see about that.
Now spying in general...................... .............ALL FOR IT :rock
You may need to reexamine your conclusion there, grumpy. In addition to lame-*** griefers like JunkyII, plenty of score padders like to coordinate across country lines too - why ruin that top 10 kills/sortie score by wandering around looking for cons 20k below you when you can just have a squaddie switch sides and find them for you? :rolleyes:
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how many spies were there for WWII let alone over the years during wars?
True... but then, what happened to spies who were caught?
Perhaps HTC should institute a policy that anyone caught relaying info across country lines is banned for life - all in the name of realism, of course.
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If spying to find the location of CV's is gaming the game, lame, cheating or whatever.... it's not very far in character from capturing enemy CV's and sending them off to remote locations "just in case" the original owners recapture their port.
Bullcrap. One is dishonest and the other isn't. Likewise with HOing, it's lame in some circumstances (but not in others; whine all you want, but I'm GOING to HO your Brewster in my 110 every chance I get, it's a high-percentage shot for me) but not dishonorable. It's a significant difference.
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I like the idea of the specially colored, always-on-dar, friendly fire enabled dot for spies. Of course, their killshooter should still be on. It reminds me of other games back in the olden days prior to MMO stuff being common. They were text based, but people who needed a punishin' had a flag set on them that basically meant all could kill them with no consequences. :old:
I'd personally institute it as an amount of in-flight time timer, with a minimum altitude of 500ft before time would start coming off, and no autopilot allowed. Flying off the map would reset your time to 0 and you'd have to start over again. I'd also have it so every time they died, their name would come up in lights as 'Buddy got killed because he got caught spying. Everybody point and laugh.' I'd probably set that last part up so if a message for buddy had come up in the last 10 minutes, it wouldn't send another one so it wouldn't spam the channel. Also the capability to not receive those messages would be a good idea. I'm not speaking of anybody specific if someone whose handle is 'Buddy' reads this. :)
20 hours of flight with that special color calling all down on your head I think would be a reasonable punishment for spying. :devil
Hrm... maybe this needs to be over in the 'Wishlist'?
Wiley.
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I like the idea of the specially colored, always-on-dar, friendly fire enabled dot for spies. Of course, their killshooter should still be on. It reminds me of other games back in the olden days prior to MMO stuff being common. They were text based, but people who needed a punishin' had a flag set on them that basically meant all could kill them with no consequences. :old:
I'd personally institute it as an amount of in-flight time timer, with a minimum altitude of 500ft before time would start coming off, and no autopilot allowed. Flying off the map would reset your time to 0 and you'd have to start over again. I'd also have it so every time they died, their name would come up in lights as 'Buddy got killed because he got caught spying. Everybody point and laugh.' I'd probably set that last part up so if a message for buddy had come up in the last 10 minutes, it wouldn't send another one so it wouldn't spam the channel. Also the capability to not receive those messages would be a good idea. I'm not speaking of anybody specific if someone whose handle is 'Buddy' reads this. :)
20 hours of flight with that special color calling all down on your head I think would be a reasonable punishment for spying. :devil
Hrm... maybe this needs to be over in the 'Wishlist'?
Wiley.
Good grief :huh
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If "relaying info across country lines" is against the spirit of the game then why does the game facilitate communication between countries?
I personally think hiding carriers is against their intended use in the game, and is taking away from all players the fun of using them in the game; if players band together across front lines to prevent it I'm all for it.