Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: vatiAH on November 18, 2001, 06:17:00 PM
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Hi guys,
I just bought a PNY Geforce 3 TI 500 and I have an issue with it. I'm getting lockups in all 3D games including AH. 3DMark2001 lockup in the high detail Dragonic scene. AH will lock up about 10 to 15 minutes into the game. It's acting like it a heat issue so, I took the time today to pull the Heatsink off to see what was under it. I found just a typical heatsink pad which I removed and replaced with Artic silver II. After Reinstalling the card I find I still lockup at about the same places and times. I'm pretty much ready to take it back, but I thought I would see if maybe i'm missing something that someone here can set me straight on.
My system is:
1.2 ghz AMD Athlon Tbird ( not over clocked)
512 SDram Pc-133
GeForce 3 Ti-500
30 gig Maxtor 7200rpm HD
Sony DVD
Zip CDRW
Sound Blaster Live 5.1
SupraMax 56k V.90 modem
300 Watt PSU
Biostar M7VKD Motherboard
Via KT133A chip set
4.35 Via 4 in 1 Drivers
21.81 nVidia Drivers
Windows XP Pro
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I read really good things about that card on Tom's Hardware. If its locking up after 15 mins, then I'd agree with your diagnosis that heat buildup (or something) is the cause.
You didn't mention this but are you over-clocking?
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No it's not over clocked, I even "throttled back " the Core and the mem 50 mhz ...still get the same thing.
Vati
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I have the exact same card and am experiencing the exact same problems. It seems that I will either lock up or get dropped right back to desktop, no warning, nothing. Happens at random intervals for me, can be 5 minutes or 2 hours. I don't think heat is the issue as my case is open and the card is placed so there is plenty of open air around the heatsink/fan.
I thought it may have been an issue with either DX8.1 or the video drivers I am using but since now there is another person out there experiencing the same thing I am less inclined to think this.
Look at my score and time in flight and you can see the number of discos is very high for the time in game.
Hope this gets fixed... bought this card over the internet and I'm not too thrilled with the 15% restock fee's.
Lonz
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BT,
Are you running XP ?
I have seen some mention on the net of problems with the G-3 and winxp. I also have a Win 98 Partion on my machine. I have the exact same problem in 98 also.
I just finished pulling the card out anyway. It's in the box and i'm shipping it back to the place I bought first thing in the morning. I really can't tell ya how disappointed I am with this experince. :( It's amazing to see the Differinc in colors and in FPS only to have it lockup in mid flight. what a shame :(
Vati
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I'm not running XP yet. The only thing holding me back is I heard that CH Speedkeys program will no longer function... that and I am nearing the threshold of my wife's tolerance for the pc upgrade.
It truly is a shame about this card. If you are sending yours back I may as well do the same. It seems the other manufacturer GF3 Ti500 cards do not have this problem.
Playing this game at the max resolution in 32 bit color I have yet to see the frame counter drop below 45fps where I have it set. That includes furballing low over smoking fields. The immersive factor goes up by a value of 10!
Lonz
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I've heard bad things about PNY cards, I would suggest buying Asus, Elsa, Gainward or Leadtek brand card.
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Thanks for the heads-up, Lonz and Vati. I had ordered the same card from Mwave a few days ago. Luckily, they were out of stock and the card would not have shipped until the 26th. After reading this thread tonight, I quickly fired off an e-mail asking to exchange the PNY card for the Leadtek version. And it seems the Leadtek card is in stock as well.
30 dollars more but it sounds like it is worth the extra cost.
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BT,
Yep, you here right. Speed keys does not work in winxp. That is the primary reason for the win98 partion on my hard drive. I like Win XP, but I like my CH Fighterstick, Pro throttle, and Pro Rudders better :)
Vati
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You didn't by any chance try a set of official or certified drivers did you?
Check my sig. Use detonator destroyer and drop back to a certified driver version. For the GeForce 3, I'd recommend the 14.10's or the 12.41's. Any other driver version is Nvidia Experimental Drivers... not certified and much more likely to cause you problems.
If you use beta drivers expect problems. Don't assume it's a hardware issue until you put a certified set of drivers in. And make sure you follow the procedure on the Detonator Destroyer page to switch to older versions.
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Leph,
A heads up for you. Det Destoyer does not work on winxp.
I did try other drivers including the ones that came with the card ...no luck ..they all lock at about the same time. The only change in the timeing of the lock up was after I replaced the heatsink pad with Artic Silver. After that it took 5 minutes longer before lock up.
Vati
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Just a though: Athlons needs lots of power and I've heard lack of juice can give you some strange lock-ups, CTDs etc.
When I built my own system friend who builds computers told me to buy 350w just to be sure there's enough power if/when needed.
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Yep, I know Det Destroyer is only 98/Me. Shame they don't have a version for 2k/XP.
Well, if you've tried the drivers, it's time for hardware. Have you tried opening your case and pointing a big desk fan at it? The suggestion about power is probably a valid one as well.
Also, make sure you aren't driving your RAM too hard or anything like that. Your not OC'ing your FSB are you? I know you said your not OC'ing, but best to check anyway. :)
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I am running a GF3 with no problems and get 50-85 fps in AH at 1024x768 and 32 bit color.I use the only certified drivers supported by Alienware, the 12.41. I also ordered it with COOL MAX video cooling fan in the side of the case. My power supply is only 300 but now Aienware uses 350. I am using ME on 1.4 Athalon and 512 megs DDR.
DJ229 :)
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Asus GF3 V8200 TI500 using 21.81 drivers with no problems at all, well except for insane FPS :)
So sure seems likes its a manufacturer specific problem.
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Same here with the drivers that came with the card, still crashes/locks. As for power I have a 400 watt power supply. No overclocking of any components and setup is pretty much stock.
It must be the manufacturer. It was mentioned in another thread that PNY uses inferior memory modules and thats why they can beat the competition's prices by a good $20 to $30. Well, for me, I've already got a return authorization on this card and have ordered a VisionTek Xtasy 6964 GF3 Ti500 card on express delivery. This is not a slam or slight on PNY, just the old saying applies that you get what you pay for.
A big <S> to all that contribute to these threads!
Lonz
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Oy lonz.. cancel the visiontek. That brand is NOT good.
Get an Asus. My Asus GForce3 Deluxe runs perfectly, getting 45-50fps on highest res, 32 bit WITH 2X FSAA on. I turn off FSAA 'cause it drops the FR to 35-40 inside smoke (without fsaa fr=40-45 in smoke).
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I have the Visiontek card in and have had no problems whatsoever, performance is equal the PNY if not better. No crashes at all with any of my 3d games. What are the problems or issues with this brand of card?
I keep the frame rate on the 45 setting in max res with 32bit color and it stays there through everything.
Lonz
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One other thing you should try, if you have any other PCI cards like sound, Modem, ect.. remove them and try another slot. Although there may not be an IRQ conflict, i have found on more than 6 occasions that i had Memory Address conflicts.
I build and upgrade systems, and have run into this many times, usually resulting in Video CTDs or lockups.
Dog out......
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Are you guys using VIA based motherboards? I had the same problem and I had to go into BIOS and manually set the AGP driving value. Seemed the card wasn't getting enough power thru the AGP slot. Try setting it from the default to EA or EB. Might work, might not. Eventually I got tired of it and ditched the VIA chipset. Same card works fine in a ALi-based mobo.
And yes, PNY is not known for high quality. I'd recommend an Elsa, Gainward, or Leadtek.
[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Raubvogel ]
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My roommate's GeForce3 (not a Ti) loccked up on the high detail Draconic test in 3Dmark2001 as well. It ran on the second attempt when only that test was selected.
He has an Asus GeForce3 64mb card and is running on an Athlon Classic 700, Windows 98SE and a 300 watt power supply.
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Time for an update.
I recieved the replacement PNY Geforce 3 TI on wednesday. I installed it that night and low and behold, the same damn problem!! Ok, what are the chances I got two bad ones? Little chance of that right !! Ok, I search the web high and low to try to find the answer to this problem. Some say that the problem lies in the way the KT133A chipset handles AGP power alotment. According to those in the know, the way to fix it is to go into you bios and adjust the AGP DRIVING Value. Ok, I was given plenty of differint values to try, so off I go!!. 3 hours and about 20 reboots later...nothing . It locked up solid everytime in 3d mode. I dug a little deeper into this on Thursday and tried everything that was mentioned here and on everyother BBS or News group on the web!! Still nothing. Ok someone mentioned Power supplie, they said 300 watts was marginal on my system with all the drives and fans. OK, so I try to test that theory. I disconnect the power to both my CD drives, both my System fans, and my Floppy. If it's power problem, surely I have enough Juice to power it up now, right? Didn't fix it :( Still locks up. Friday rolls around and the first thing I do is hit the phone to call PNY's tech support. After 8 hours and very numb fingers I'm sorry to say, I don't think PNY really has a TECH support team :( I think it's 1 guy and he is overwhelmed because ALL THE DAMN GeFORCE 3 TI's are bad and everyone is trying to get threw to him!! I swear, the Phone was busy all day. I managed to get on the line once and was put on hold for about 10 minutes and then got cut off!. Anyway, The PNY Geforce 3 is now winging back to were I got it for a full refund. I'm looking to get a Leadtek or a Asus next!!
Vati!!
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Vati, I'm afraid another card might not help. I switched cards to another manufacturer and am getting the exact same problem with the crashes/dumps. I upgraded my old system with a new motherboard, cpu, RAM, power supply, and video card. 2D games run fine forever, anything 3D runs for a little while then dies. I'm about to send this puppy to the local computer shop for a good going over, hate to spend the extra cash but I need a system that works and I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING WRONG!
Frustrated...
Lonz
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Really weird probs..
It would help us a lot to try to figure out the prob if you would include system information such as cpu, motherboard version, OS, ram, driver versions, dx versions, via servicepack versions etc.
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BT,
I can't say for sure since I never got the PNY running right, but the problem seems to be about Power to the AGP Slot. The word on the net is the Via KT133 chipsets handles AGP power badly. I have gotten my hands on a Asus A7M266 motherboard which uses the AMD 761 chips set. I have not had the chance to put this board in due to the lack of DDR memory in my inventory. I'm going to order 2 Geforce 3 cards on monday ( 1 for the shop and one for me) with my DDR memory order. I'm going to experiment with my geforce 3 card in my current system just to see if i can get it to work. LOL Even if it does work, I'm still going to switch out motherboards and give it a whirl on the Asus board. I have noticed that Asus makes mention of a AGP Pro slot while Biostar does not. I'm wondering if this can have something to do with the problem. There has been some talk of Power supplies not being hefty enough, but I have pretty much ruled that out in my case. It's kinda funny but I had a customer bring in a machine he was building ( incomplete) based on a older K6-450 cpu. He had a TNT2 card in the AGP slot which my Tech could not get working correctly. My tech got me involved and after close to 2 hours of fussing with it, we hit the net in search of answers. Only took me about 30 seconds to find out the Motherboards AGP slot did not support TNT2, Geforce , or any of the higherpower cards. No were in the MB's manual was this mentioned at all. !! The place the customer bought the CPU/MB combo from assured him that the TNT2 he owned would work. It took a trip the manufactuers web sight to find the answer in that case.
In this case with the Geforce 3 , I'm expecting that it's a similar thing, but I cannot find any real docmentation to support this. At this point it's more hear say from this BBS and others.
Vati
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BT,
You bought the Visontek and still have the same problem? I saw an article on the web somewere that you might have just confirmed for me. The article was talking about Video card manufactuers and the Geforce 3 in particular. IT seems there is really only few manufactures that make them for everyone else. The one thing I do remember was that the PNY and the VisionTek and one other were made by the same manufactuer. I'll have to see if I can find the link to that artical.
Vati
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I've been reading in the Nvidia newsgroup about people having random lockups and such with VIA chipsets+Geforce3 video cards while running 3D apps. It seems VIA has new AGP drivers out as of last Friday that seem to be solving this problem for many people. I should recieve my Leadtek GeForce3 Ti 500 tomorrow so I'll give 'em a go.
For most people, the problems have been the above problem with Windows XP....Have seen a few with Win98 having the same problems.
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The KT133 chipset (and kt133a) has no problems providing AGP power, SINCE IT DOESN'T POWER THE AGP SLOT. ;) The power is provided by voltage regulators. Now signal timing IS determined by the MB chipset, but there are no issues I'm aware of with GF 3 cards and that chipset. What I'd suggest is to see if your motherboard has a jumper for setting the I/O voltage to the ram and other peripherals. Usually this is set to 3.3V, but SOME MB manufacturers do set this to 3.5V by default. When troubleshooting video card lockup issues it wouldn't hurt to set this to 3.3V. (There was some issues with the Abit kt7 and kt7a boards related to this very jumper.)
It's also important to note that the CD-Rom drives, floppy, etc DO NOT affect in ANY WAY the power provided to the MB itself and the AGP slot. On most powersupplies you will see a label indicating power to the 3.3 and 5V lines to the MB. (Usually 150 - 180W) This is the crucial value to look at when selecting a powersupply. By disconecting the floppy, cd drive, etc you did not actually eliminate the powersupply as the root cause of the problem. It still may be, but I would first look and see if there is the voltage jumper on the MB itself I mentioned above. Set this to 3.3V and see if the problems continue. I would also definately recommend updating your VIA agp driver to the newest available. (www.viahardware.com has them available.)
Sorry for the short tone, but I'm pressed for time and can't spend too long typing out replies. :(
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Sorry to hear that Vati. My system is a P4 (850 chipset) with a Creative Labs GeForce Titanium 500 and all is ok. Some years ago I threw my last VIA chipset MOBO out of the window and since then I always bought BX based MOBO. More bucks but more stability. Just MHO. Good luck! ;)
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Had exact the same problem under w2k, no matter what driver version i was using.
Good news reinstalling DirectX did the Job for me.
Bad news as far as I know, there's no seperate version for DirectX available for XP. Haven't done any research on that so far. Maybe somebodyelse can help.
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Vati check here:
http://www.onlinekosten.de/hardware/artikel/?ID=106&P=1 (http://www.onlinekosten.de/hardware/artikel/?ID=106&P=1)
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I just bought a PNY GeForce3 Ti500 this morning. As I was installing it on my Abit KT7A, I noticed this thread for the first time and was horrified that I might have the same problems. I was kicking myself for not following the board more closely. :rolleyes:
But so far so good. I think the fix is VIA's latest AGP driver (http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2) released only one week ago. My recipe for success:
Win2k SP2 with all the latest hotfixes
DirectX 8.1
VIA 4in1 drivers
VIA AGP driver 410
Detonator 21.83
No BIOS modifications were done... it's basically at the default "Optimized Settings" for the KT7A.
It's been running a couple hours now with no crashes. Ran Aces High for a bit, did the 3d Mark 2001 thing, played Il-2 a bit. Works great. :)
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New update,
I now have 2 Geforce 3 cards sitting my shop. 1 is for retail sale the other is mine which I have run some test with. Both Are Abit Geforce 2 TI 500's. You have read the above problems I have had with the PNY. I have Installed the ABit and it runs fine with no hangups at all. I can't tell you what makes this one work when the PNY would not. All I can say is there seems to have been a capitablity issue of some sort. I'm willing to bet that if I could have gotten threw to PNY's tech support, they would have gotten me up and running.
Vati
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you very well coulda had a bad card.
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2 of them ?
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I found a thread at the VisionTek site on the incompatability of the GF3's and the "super socket 7" type motherboards. They use OLD AGP SOCKETS which do not support the increased power demands of the newer video cards.
I feel a little miffed... built my system directly off the recommendations of another player who was singing its praises on the combo he built, bragging about reliability and cost-effectiveness. Never heard a thing on any problems. the Asus A7M266 board evidently just can't cut it.
After spending too much money already and feeling like a total twit I'll be buying a new moboard this weekend. Research pays off, word of mouth bites.
Lonz
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super socket 7 is an OLD, old design (circa 1998 or 1999) for AMD K6-2 and K6-3 chips. Your A7M266 is NOT a super socket 7 board.
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Look at my post below:
There is a serious bug in Windows XP that causes lockups in ALL direct x games with ALL video cards and ALL chipsets. (In other words a MAJOR bug.)
The fingerprint to look for is the actual stop message (if you can actually see it before the system reboots or locks) is "thread stuck in device driver."
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Thats why they named it Windows XP..
ExPerience lockups. Very appropriate.
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The Asus A7M266 is NOT a "super socket 7" board. All socket athlons fit in what is known as "Socket A."
Socket 7 has been out of use for almost 2 years now.