Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ariansworld on June 18, 2010, 05:18:08 PM
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What is a good 12 gauge shell that would be ideal for home defense?
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What is a good 12 gauge shell that would be ideal for home defense?
I just use my trap shooting sport shells.
Break into my house your gonna be missing a limb or be dead.
2 3/4 inch
#8 shot
2 3/4 Dm
1 1/8 oz
-BigBOBCH
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00B. Always.
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There are alot of variables to consider ie; children or others in the house, nieghbors, what type of shotgun and barrel length and so on. That being said a #4 buckshot makes an excellent home defence round, more BB's, good pattern and less likely to blow through your walls. Remember NEVER EVER leave one in the chamber!!! The fraction of a second it takes to chamber a round in all likelyhood will never be the difference between life and death for you. But it maybe enough time for your mind to identify the difference between a true threat and terrible mistake that could haunt you for the rest of your life.
:salute
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My choice's ... we have bears ... Rocky mountain high. :D:D:D
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff21/tosk2/Coachgun.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff21/tosk2/0012gage.jpg)
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If you need to ask, then you better take some lessons first. then pay attention to what people say, it depends on your situation. Me i dont need a shotgun, my little old 9mm is good enough, along with its little .22 brother hiding in another room, just in case. and when my kids come to visit, the locks go on.
semp
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:lol bud if you have to ask what the best size shot to use.....you just might want to get a dog instead. Most generally the sound of a nice pump action will be enough to stop most in their tracks.
Just keep in mind that if you do fire on someone, it'll more then likely be in the dark at close range. I'd go with #4 shot as you can get plenty on target and won't have near the mess to clean up afterwards. Double ott buck WILL do the job alright, but do you really want to have to clean up the blood and brains imbedded in the walls after it's all said and done?
The 3" BB shell is another good load that's easy to find. A lot of states, such as mine, won't even allow folks to have xx buck shot. Something you may need to look into also.
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Do not use hunting buckshot or magnum waterfowl loads......use tactical buckshot...
The loads are intentionally low velocity to reduce collateral damage and also reduce recoil for faster re-acquisition of the target..
Federal is what I use...1145 fps, 00x 9, 2.75"
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My choice's ... we have bears ... Rocky mountain high. :D:D:D
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff21/tosk2/Coachgun.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff21/tosk2/0012gage.jpg)
Nice coach gun....
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A lot of states, such as mine, won't even allow folks to have xx buck shot. Something you may need to look into also.
What state do you live in?
What other states do you think it is illegal in?
Most laws that I know of pertaining to or restricting buckshot are hunting/game laws...
This is the first time I have ever heard that buck shot is illegal in certain states.
There is much FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) regarding guns and gun laws...for instance many people believe Buckshot is illegal in New York, Pennsylvania and Illinois...nothing could be further from the truth...though its use is restricted for hunting deer...
Oneway
Oneway
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Most laws that I know of pertaining to or restricting buckshot are hunting/game laws...
Oneway
Oneway
I think you're correct it applies to hunting laws same as plugs. I keep 3" Magnum 00.Buck in the 12 GA I have for home protection.
It's the only way to be sure. ;)
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FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt)
I like this :lol
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My Katana is always close by :D
around 2.ooo layers, hand pounded,Folded, clay used during the heat treating......wont even feel the arm come off :aok
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i bought myself a Barret Rec-7. it fires a 6.8mm SPC cartridge semi-auto. if you brake into my appartment, you're going to lose something important. if that doesnt work, i have my trusty colt .45 that im "borrowing" from an uncle
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if you brake into my appartment,
Or live in the same building...
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I keep my Glock on the bedside, but if I had to use a 12 gauge I would go with slugs.
The racking of a 12 gauge is enough to send the toughest criminal running in fear.
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:lol bud if you have to ask what the best size shot to use.....you just might want to get a dog instead. Most generally the sound of a nice pump action will be enough to stop most in their tracks.
Just keep in mind that if you do fire on someone, it'll more then likely be in the dark at close range. I'd go with #4 shot as you can get plenty on target and won't have near the mess to clean up afterwards. Double ott buck WILL do the job alright, but do you really want to have to clean up the blood and brains imbedded in the walls after it's all said and done?
The 3" BB shell is another good load that's easy to find. A lot of states, such as mine, won't even allow folks to have xx buck shot. Something you may need to look into also.
Just wanted some opinions, that is all. Right now I have a charles daly home defense shotgun. It has a 18 inch barrel on it, no choke what so ever.
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What state do you live in?
What other states do you think it is illegal in?
Most laws that I know of pertaining to or restricting buckshot are hunting/game laws...
This is the first time I have ever heard that buck shot is illegal in certain states.
There is much FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) regarding guns and gun laws...for instance many people believe Buckshot is illegal in New York, Pennsylvania and Illinois...nothing could be further from the truth...though its use is restricted for hunting deer...
Oneway
Oneway
Yes, I did some checking. Here in Iowa you CAN have 00 buck, you just can't hunt with it. I even found a place or 2 that sells the tactical rounds you mentioned. :O
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I'm not a fan about using a long gun for home defense purposes. I would prefer a pistol in tight quarters. No matter what you use you are going to have to be concerned with penetration of walls and where folks are that you do not want to hit. Shotgun will also penetrate dry wall so unless you have solid walls You have to exercise care about what direction you launch rounds.
Most houses don't have super long hallways. Being in close contact is a real possibility if someone comes in uninvited and you won't have a lot of time to prepare either, especially if you are still in the process of just waking up. That's another reason to have something light and handy versus something that is away from the bed or locked in another room.
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My Katana is always close by :D
around 2.ooo layers, hand pounded,Folded, clay used during the heat treating......wont even feel the arm come off :aok
Sounds very nice, one of Paul Chen's perhaps?
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A Claymore on the porch. Never had a problem...or a visitor. :uhoh
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A Claymore on the porch. Never had a problem...or a visitor. :uhoh
wonder why....
:noid
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Sounds very nice, one of Paul Chen's perhaps?
ya his Tiger :D
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If I move and become an American citizen and save up some money, I know what I am buying to protect my home.
(http://c0388982.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/aa-12-combat-shotgun-frag-12-automatic-1.jpg)
There is no such thing as overkill, just guns that are VERY VERY VERY good at their job. With this thing's click when you chamber the first shell, a loud stainless steel clang. No servicing required and little recoil. And fully automatic with a 32 round drum packing 12 gauge shells, if someone enters your home they are leaving quickly... and if they dont then they will leave earth just as fast.
:devil
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What is a good 12 gauge shell that would be ideal for home defense?
the ones the police use.
don't you know that you're supposed to dial 911"? the police will protect you, no need for you to do it yourself. :noid
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There are alot of variables to consider ie; children or others in the house, nieghbors, what type of shotgun and barrel length and so on. That being said a #4 buckshot makes an excellent home defence round, more BB's, good pattern and less likely to blow through your walls. Remember NEVER EVER leave one in the chamber!!! The fraction of a second it takes to chamber a round in all likelyhood will never be the difference between life and death for you. But it maybe enough time for your mind to identify the difference between a true threat and terrible mistake that could haunt you for the rest of your life.
:salute
Great response and all very true. Over penetration is one thing that absolutly needs to be considered, also wall materials ie drywall or plaster. At the short ranges that your talking about 10/15 ft , a good high power BB load is going to drop someone in their tracks (while not an optimum,only use if overpenetration is an issue ). Now if you are like me, and my kids sleep on the 2nd floor ( the wife and I on the first, i feel comfortable using 000 buckshot (federal) I dont need to worry about my round penetrating thru into another room.
Ive tested BB rounds thru my semi aut0 Benelli M1 tactical and at 15 feet it patterned at about a 5 or 6" group with a few fliers. The buckshot well lets just say the Benelli was born to throw that stuff.
All information I pray none of us will ever have to put into effect.
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ya his Tiger :D
Sweet. :aok..always wanted one of his. :cheers:
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heres my home defense. The bottom one works just fine.
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/0d4c46c9b515cc2d712238e1d25eb2d24g.jpg)
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I would make sure you pattern your gun. Shoot at a piece of ply wood you be surprised that some guns don't like certain shot. I have won many a bet when only 2 bb's hit the ply wood with 00 and my gun was grouped. It all depends on the shot ,shell and barrel that it was made for. Many a time I've herd I shot 00 and missed. I then ask did you pattern your gun "whats that" I laugh and say more deer for me. Know your equipment one size does not fit all.
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Patterning is a great idea...and do it at various ranges out to 40 yards...
I have an 870 that has had some 'work' done to it...
The barrel has been taper bored to IC (improved cylinder). Taper boring is a machining process where the entire length of the barrel is tapered to the ultimate choke diameter at the muzzle. Factory or stock choking typically chokes the last few inches of the barrel. Factory choking puts a lot of stress on the shot column and typically will result in wider dispersion along with 'flyers'. Taper boring on the other hand gradually constricts the shot column and produces night and day differences in shot patterning.
In the case of waterfowl guns...no other modification will increase the range and down range density of a shot column like a taper bore...easily can add 10-20 yards of lethal range to your favorite goose gun...
In addition to taper boring, the 870 has been ported at the muzzle. Porting is the process of drilling a series of holes, angled back, on the top of the barrel. Porting reduces recoil, muzzle rise and tightens the pattern further still.
In addition to the boring and porting, the trigger shear was lightened/re-machined, ghost ring rear and tritium front sight installed, magazine extension installed (7+1), youth butt stock installed, Sure Fire illuminated front slide installed, over sized safety button installed, over size slide release installed and a six pack side saddle...
This particular 870 will print all 9 buck shot pellets well inside of a standard pie plate at 40 yards, and produces holes the size of your fist at 25+ yards in plywood...
Extremely lethal...
Oneway
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For home protection, use the cheapest ammo you can get. At the range you'll be at; shot or base size don't matter. :D
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In 12ga the turkey loads can be good because they won't penetrate into a target too far. Good if you have thin walls that you're worried about going through, or if your really, really don't want to kill someone you shoot at. One strategy if you do need penetration or lots of damage is to alternate shot with slug. Shot gives you the pattern for a little more sure of a first round, and once on target one can follow up with a slug if need be.
You don't need expensive ammo, but reliability is one thing that comes with cost. Don't go too cheap. Someone suggested #4 shot, and this might be the best compromise of all performance factors. You can probably get that cheap enough.
A good 1911 is always nice to have on a bedside table as well. I've got a 14+1 Para that is too big to carry comfortably, but goes nice with a tac-light and has all I need to welcome guests in the night.
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<------uses a Springfield 45 auto with hydra shock loads. that fails.....
rack the shotty and they dont stay long and if they do, There bad
all else fails and the Russian goods will send the correct message :D
I think frogers best friend is the PPK :aok
best home defense i have found is LOCK YER DANG DOORS N WINDOWS and use some common sense !!!!!!
that is all
froger
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I'd start with Kimber Tactical Custom II with some 230 Grain Winchester Rangers in Chip McCormick 10 round magazines. See how that goes before upping the stakes.
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I'm partial to my .45 1911 as well. Keep 230gr Gen 5 Winchester Rangers loaded. Remington golden saber 185gr, Hornady XTP 230gr+P, and Speer gold dot 230gr in my spare mags.
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<---- Old .50 cal muzzleloader, Colt .45 in the garage, 2-3 .22 rifles in the closet, and a high velocity varmint gun under my pillow :rofl :noid
My neighbor doesn't take his truck out into the country without his Glock, 30-06, 12 gauge, Machette, and Hunting blade :lol
My other neighbor has 2 30-06's with ammo which has a number of grains I'm almost sure is nearing the limit... I also live in the county in my state which has the most people pound-for-pound with guns (80% of households have guns) :aok
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http://www.theboxotruth.com/ (http://www.theboxotruth.com/)
Take a look there, and you'll see the results of all sorts of ammunition fired into materials similar to those used in house construction.
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for home protection, you need this.
(http://zhurnal.lib.ru/img/k/kruz_a/gloss/mg42_02.jpg)
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What is a good 12 gauge shell that would be ideal for home defense?
For home defense, I have a 10mm glock. That think packs a real wallop. Also in my gunsafe (the glock is by my nightstand in its case along with 3 clips loaded with both hollow tip and standard rounds, since bears are a legitimate worry where I live) is a ruger 308 semi-auto, with a tactical stock.
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Can never have enough:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s162/spikesx/IMG_2369.jpg)
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Can never have enough:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s162/spikesx/IMG_2369.jpg)
My friends.... we are in the presence of greatness :salute
Das alotta guns!!! :x
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Spikes, you have M1 (garand or carbine) style sights on any of those? I love those things.
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This site answers alot of questions.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
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My friends.... we are in the presence of greatness :salute
Das alotta guns!!! :x
I am sure many people have more, we are just big time hunters.
Spikes, you have M1 (garand or carbine) style sights on any of those? I love those things.
No however I wish I did, would like to put a set on one of the .22s.
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If you're not familiar with the type, make sure you get one with a relatively large hole in the rear sight (not exactly sure what its called), as it can block out a good portion of your target.
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If you're not familiar with the type, make sure you get one with a relatively large hole in the rear sight (not exactly sure what its called), as it can block out a good portion of your target.
It's just a simple Ghost Ring sight, with a more intricate foresight than your normal bead/line foresight.
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(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/65b910c214eda0622c78c689606dfd9d4g.jpg)
in order from top to bottom:
Rem. model 700 .308
Rem. model 742 .308
Ruger .22 LR with bull barrel
High Standard RIOT 12 Ga.
British .303
30-30 no scope
30-30 w/ scope
Foremost model 687OH 12 Ga.
Win model 1300 20 Ga.
left side:
Rem model 870 12 Ga.
right side:
Rem model 870 12 Ga.
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thanks spikes.
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For home defense, I have a 10mm glock. That think packs a real wallop. Also in my gunsafe (the glock is by my nightstand in its case along with 3 clips loaded with both hollow tip and standard rounds, since bears are a legitimate worry where I live) is a ruger 308 semi-auto, with a tactical stock.
The thought of you with a gun is terrifying.
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(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/65b910c214eda0622c78c689606dfd9d4g.jpg)
in order from top to bottom:
Rem. model 700 .308
Rem. model 742 .308
Ruger .22 LR with bull barrel
High Standard RIOT 12 Ga.
British .303
30-30 no scope
30-30 w/ scope
Foremost model 687OH 12 Ga.
Win model 1300 20 Ga.
left side:
Rem model 870 12 Ga.
right side:
Rem model 870 12 Ga.
Damn dude...lets go Zombie hunting together :cheers: :)
Love my 870's!
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Don't forget a good flashlight, either handheld or weapon mounted - As well as some training on how to use a light properly indoors and with a weapon. Target ID as mentioned before becomes much easier in the dark with a light obviously, not to mention the tactical advantage it'll give you over an attacker without a light, or without the training on how to use it defensively.
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Don't forget a good flashlight, either handheld or weapon mounted - As well as some training on how to use a light properly indoors and with a weapon. Target ID as mentioned before becomes much easier in the dark with a light obviously, not to mention the tactical advantage it'll give you over an attacker without a light, or without the training on how to use it defensively.
Agree 100%. A high powered LED flashlight (such as Surefire mounted on a gun) is great for target ID and he can't see you since the light is so bright. He is forced to cover his eyes or close them or turn his back. Either way making him vulnerable.
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The thought of you with a gun is terrifying.
And the thought of you with any real, legitimate insult is unbelievable.
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Damn dude...lets go Zombie hunting together :cheers: :)
Love my 870's!
thats just in the bed room. doesnt include the 25 rifle safe.
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2 3/4-inch No. 1 buckshot generally is considered best for 12-gauge, even better than 00 buckshot. Google No. 1 buckshot for details. Also check theboxotruth.com.
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Free tip for anyone using a flashlight for defence. This is probably the most valuable little bit I picked up taking Surefire's course a few years ago.
Take your light when you enter a room and shine it straight up on the roof while presenting your weapon or keeping it at universal cover position: Nearly every indoor room has a lightly painted or stippled roof, and by shining the light on it you illuminate the entire room instead of just the area in your beam. It also makes you much less of a target since potential threats won't have a large beacon which will be close to your body to zero in on.
Give it a try, you'll see it works.
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for home protection, you need this.
(http://zhurnal.lib.ru/img/k/kruz_a/gloss/mg42_02.jpg)
LOL YUP!!!!
my thoughts exactly ...... my neighbors might disagree though :D
froger
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And the thought of you with any real, legitimate insult is unbelievable.
Pulling up a chair, finding my favorite cold beverage. popping popcorn...
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Bring enough gun!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s181/cciespike/yhst-13081306378516_1941_23478013.jpg)
You can kill people with the noise of this thing.
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Always consider what's behind the walls of where you live in regards to firearms for home defence. My father is a reloader so I join him for loading some of my own rounds for my own guns. For my apartment here in the city I keep light trap rounds nearby my remington 12ga. and keep some light rounds that I loaded using a recipe for min-ricochet cast-iron target shooting handy in a spare magazine in the safe for my .308. The idea beaing that if I god-forbid have to use them the rounds hopefuly won't go flying through more than one wall after hitting or missing my target. Now for the family cabin up north I have a more medium-heavy selection. Everything from buckshot and heavy-loaded buffalo long-rifle rounds for the bears to more typical varmit rounds and loads for the smaller trash-romping pests.
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Sizing shot depends a lot on how your house is built, and what the ranges are.
In close range its hard to beat #8's or #6's for a nice pattern that is quickly stopped by drywall.
Farther out you might want to go with something like #1's or Duece's.
You could slip a slug in for the very last round, but it probably wouldn't look good to drop someone with a slug as he's running down the street. Much better to him him with either of the first 2.
My 5 shot Rem 870 is loaded with something like.
8's, 6's, 4's, 2's, #3 buckshot
Any one of those is fully capable of putting someone down at 40 yards with a single shot.
The first 3 "probably" wouldn't penitrate a double wall, in my case with lath and plaster behind drywall, for sure not.
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Well if you plaster over the BB holes just make sure you know where the REAL metal studs in the wall are :lol :noid
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Bring enough gun!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s181/cciespike/yhst-13081306378516_1941_23478013.jpg)
You can kill people with the noise of this thing.
First line of defense weapon when the Zombies breach the outer 600 Meter wire...also useful for long range suppressive fire/assist for the forward squad elements closing on and with danger close...
(http://www.cadframers.com/ah/DSCN0168.JPG)
Sabre Industries Lower
Larue Billet Machined Upper
Young National Match Carrier
Global Tactical Match Bolt
Global Tactical 18" SPR 1:7 Barrel
Magpul Tactical Butt-stock
Sierra Precision Grip
Giessel National Match Trigger
Larue Tactical Fore-end
Larue Harris Bipod Mount
Larue Scope Mount
Ops-Inc SDM Compensator
Endyne Gas Recoil Buffer
PRI Tactical Front Folding Sight
Troy Rear Folding Battle Sight
Gas Buster Charging Handle
Harris Bipod
Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40 LR/T M1 Mil-Dot Illuminated Reticle
Load of Choice ~ 500 Meters: Sierra Match King 77 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tails - 32 Grains of Varget - Remington 7.5 Match Grade Primers...though she will throw the 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket Boat Tails with deadly accuracy all day long in a 20 knot crosswind at 300 Meters...
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Please Google for numerous authoritative posts on what size shot is adequate for home defense, e.g., theboxotruth.com. Most recommend No. 1 Buckshot or 00 Buckshot, not slugs and not birdshot.
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(http://www.shotgunworld.com/shot_sizes.jpg)
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Very nice setup, oneway. I've got an LMT myself and I'm loving it. I dare say we should meet at the range some day.
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I just use my trap shooting sport shells.
Break into my house your gonna be missing a limb or be dead.
2 3/4 inch
#8 shot
2 3/4 Dm
1 1/8 oz
-BigBOBCH
I'd rethink your choice. A skeet load isn't going to penetrate and thus stop the attacker like you assume beyond a distance you'll find very surprising.
Personally I use 00B in an 11-87 wearing an 18" barrel and a light in conjunction with a compact 1911 variant with night sights/Crimson Trace grip that are within easy reach. In the safe is an assortment of weapons effective to various distances including AR15s as carbines and long distance precision rifles, M1A precision rifle, assorted shotguns, auto pistols and knives for a host of occasions.
I entertain but I prefer the guests to be invited.