Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: minke on June 22, 2010, 05:41:03 AM
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Is there any game data, or tables on the comparitive effectiveness of rockets? I was looking to find info on all the types in-game, optimum firing ranges, optimum angles and particular gv vunerabilities.
I tend to use the Il2 more than anything else and have more success on buildings and ack than GV's. Its not that I have an aim problem, I just need to know if a particular rocket is going to do the job aginst a particular target
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Is there any game data, or tables on the comparitive effectiveness of rockets? I was looking to find info on all the types in-game, optimum firing ranges, optimum angles and particular gv vunerabilities.
I tend to use the Il2 more than anything else and have more success on buildings and ack than GV's. Its not that I have an aim problem, I just need to know if a particular rocket is going to do the job aginst a particular target
The only rocket type in game for air to air use: WGr 21 (timer fused HE warhead, airbursting)
The only rocket type in game for dedicated anti-tank use: PB1 (hollow-charge warhead) (FW 190F-8)
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The only rocket type in game for air to air use: WGr 21 (timer fused HE warhead, airbursting)
The only rocket type in game for dedicated anti-tank use: PB1 (hollow-charge warhead) (FW 190F-8)
See? Learn something new every day. I thought the IL-2 had AT rockets as well.
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Speaking of the air to air rockets... What is the time delay and at the average bomber speed of 250-275 what distance should they be fired at?
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See? Learn something new every day. I thought the IL-2 had AT rockets as well.
Well, it says RS-82 and RS 132 in hangar, which were the HE carrying variants. The AT versions were the BRS 82 and BRS 132.
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Speaking of the air to air rockets... What is the time delay and at the average bomber speed of 250-275 what distance should they be fired at?
Depends on your speed, but its about 1k coming aft, 2-2.5k coming forward of a formation, and 1.5k sideways.
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There is no optimum firing range for any rocket. They are either HE (they rely on explosives to do damage), or hollow charge (H.E.A.T. IIRC. Meaning they don't rely on speed to puch through armor)
The PB1 rockets (190F8), and the rockets on the Il-2 and I-16 are the only AT rockets in the game. Obviously a flat impact is preferable.
I'm by no means an expert on rockets, but the 3.5", 4.5", 5" HARV's, and the Russian should be fired when your target is a bit infront of your nose (IDK about the range, but I guess D400, maybe). The German PB1 rockets need to be fired as your target is about to pass under your nose.
The WGr21 rockets have impact fuses along with a 1000yd fuze. That means they will detonate on impact, or when they have traveled 1000yds (1k, but the icon ranges aren't an accurate measure untill they show "1000" as opposed to "1k")
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The PB1 rockets (190F8), and the rockets on the Il-2 and I-16 are the only AT rockets in the game.
Why are RS-82 and RS-132 with their HE warheads suddenly "AT" ?
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They are HE? I've been getting kills with HE rockets? Thats..... strange.
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They are HE? I've been getting kills with HE rockets? Thats..... strange.
You get kills with the B-25H's 75 mm cannon too - shooting HE. Or with HE bombs. Or with the HE rounds from a LVT.
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Well yes, in the B-25, you have to target a specific area (shells just bounce off the front of tanks), bombs are carrying around 400lbs of HE at least, and I've never gotten a kill with the LVTA4.
The RS-132 is carrying what? 70lbs at most I'd guess.
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bombs are carrying around 400lbs of HE at least
I have succesfully killed Panzer's with 100kg bombs (~100lbs HE).
Of course with that little explosive, you have to get a really good hit, but while being difficult, it's doable.
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you do know that 1kg is about 1.1lbs, right :noid? A 50kg bomb is a 100lb bomb.
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you do know that 1kg is about 1.1lbs, right :noid? A 50kg bomb is a 100lb bomb.
You do know that 1 kg is 2.2 lbs, right :noid? A 50 kg bomb is a 110 lbs bomb.
ack-ack
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Yes Ack-Ack. I hit the wrong button; I'm only human, as are you.
Also, I'm giving estimations here.
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Yes Ack-Ack. I hit the wrong button;
I'm sure that's it, LOL.
ack-ack
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you do know that 1kg is about 1.1lbs, right :noid? A 50kg bomb is a 100lb bomb.
You know that only about 50% of a HE bomb is actually explosive filling? So a generic 100kg HE bomb does have ~100lbs explosives.
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So a 4000lb bomb has 2000lbs or so of scrap iron in it? That doesn't seem right.
And Ack-Ack, I know my convertions pretty well, I'm not gona screw up the kg to lbs one. I learned that one in 6Th grade, and its been reinforced up until highscool geometry (last 2 trimesters of the just finished year) through story problems.
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So a 4000lb bomb has 2000lbs or so of scrap iron in it? That doesn't seem right.
It doesn't matter what seems to be right... just matters how it is. ;)
Why don't you read a bit up? It's so easy with da internetz to get a few numbers in very short time :)
And they are not filled with "scrap iron". It's the bomb case. Compare the density of steel to the density of explosives and you will see why the casing can quickly make up 50% of total mass.
For example a German 500kg SC-500 (the one we have in game). It's a general purpose bomb quite comparable to it's allied counterparts. Depending on version, it weighed 480 to 520kg and was filled with 250 to 260kg Fp 02; Fp 60/40; Fp 50/50; Amatol 39 or 40 or 41, Ammonal D,J or (in case of naval targets only) DJI Trialen
A SD-500 (fragmentation bomb) had even 75-180kg explosive filling only.
A SC-1800 (our big Stuka cookie) carried 1000-1100kg of explosives (It's armor piercing variant only 220kg)
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It doesn't matter what seems to be right... just matters how it is. ;)
Why don't you read a bit up? It's so easy with da internetz to get a few numbers in very short time :)
And they are not filled with "scrap iron". It's the bomb case. Compare the density of steel to the density of explosives and you will see why the casing can quickly make up 50% of total mass.
For example a German 500kg SC-500 (the one we have in game). It's a general purpose bomb quite comparable to it's allied counterparts. Depending on version, it weighed 480 to 520kg and was filled with 250 to 260kg Fp 02; Fp 60/40; Fp 50/50; Amatol 39 or 40 or 41, Ammonal D,J or (in case of naval targets only) DJI Trialen
A SD-500 (fragmentation bomb) had even 75-180kg explosive filling only.
A SC-1800 (our big Stuka cookie) carried 1000-1100kg of explosives (It's armor piercing variant only 220kg)
Can you put that in a pie chart?
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Back to the original question:
There is loads of data, some of it current some not, but it will give you a starting point, at the AH Trainers website. Just follow the link to the "projectile strength analysis".
FWIW, the US uses the 4.5inand 5in rockets, and the UK uses the 3.5in rocket for air to ground use. The US 5in is the most powerful at 156 pts of damage, next is the British 3.5in at 140pts of damage, and a distant 3rd is the US 4.5in rocket at 93 points of damage. All the sources I've read lend all three to being "general purpose" rockets to be used in either HE or AP roles (exactly as they were used in the real deal). Also, the 4.5in rocket is basically the "bazooka" rocket, hence the tubes. It is also the rocket used on the M4A3 75mm "Calliope" tank as well. On aircraft, remember those tubes cause drag and add weight.
In AH, an OBJ (i.e. "object") such as a ammo bunker, fuel depot, radar, barracks, or house takes a total amount of 312pts of damage to destroy. Some of the lack of actual damage by poundage (for lack of batter terms) is made up from the impact of the projectile. Hence, the ability to destroy one of the a OBJ mentioned with a direct hit from a single 250lb bomb.
btw... here an added tid-bit for those who may want to know:
Tank Main Gun Statistics for Aces High
Country Tank Caliber/Gun Reload Time HE Dmg (in lbs)
Britain Firefly 76mm Q.F. 17lb 7.2 sec 146.3
Germany Pzr IV 75mm KwK40 L/48 5.4 sec 156
Germany Tiger I 88mm KwK36 L/46 6.3 sec 234.3
Soviets T34/76 76mm F-34 8.2 sec 156.2
Soviets T34/85 85mm ZiS-S-53 6.8 sec 231.8
US M4A3 M3 3.6 sec 173.8
US M4A3 (W) 76mm M1A1 3.6 sec 103
US LVT-4 75mm M2 3.6 sec 154.5
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*DOH!
Double post. Sorry.
The info above was taken from the AH Trainers website, 'cept for the T34/85 and both M4A3's. Those 3 tanks were tested by me for HE damage.
Notice which tank is #3 in HE damage, and which is the worst. :)
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I can see that, depending on how thick the casing is.
Anyone know how thick it actually is? It wouldn't have to be very thick concidiring its not intended to shot out of a tank's main gun at 1120m/s, would it?
SmokinLoon, how did you find the damage down to a tenth of a pound (M3 tank gun)?
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Anyone know how thick it actually is? It wouldn't have to be very thick concidiring its not intended to shot out of a tank's main gun at 1120m/s, would it?
A grade III SC-500 has a wall thickness from 0.3 to 3.2 inch in the nose.
(http://www.savagesquadron.com/GEpage/GEOrdnance/sc500bomb.jpg)
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SmokinLoon, how did you find the damage down to a tenth of a pound (M3 tank gun)?
Shoot an object with known hardness (see object settings in offline mode).
Divide that value by number of rounds needed to kill it.
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oh.... duh :lol.
And thanks for the measurments.
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I can see that, depending on how thick the casing is.
Anyone know how thick it actually is? It wouldn't have to be very thick concidiring its not intended to shot out of a tank's main gun at 1120m/s, would it?
SmokinLoon, how did you find the damage down to a tenth of a pound (M3 tank gun)?
Looshey said correctly. I used the hanger since it was a large enough and "deep" enough target to soak up enough damage to have a legit scale to compare multiple weapons platforms. The same test could be performed on the shore battery as well since it too is a "deep" target. I've found some discrepancies that are listed on the "Projectile Strength Analysis" posted on the AH Trainer's website, but mostly minuscule and not worth mentioning. I'd love to contribute the info I have to share that isa currently not posted, but Im not quite sure who to approach or even if they're taking new information to share with the public.
A single M4A3 75mm with a full load of HE and the Calliope rockets mounted can take down an entire town. With the fast reload time, generous damage and splash area, and plenty of ammo it is not to be over-looked. Obviously, its bane is the lackluster AP round. You'd better have a buddy in a Firefly or M4A3W 76mm close by. :)
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I've found that out the hard way. Oddly, U.S. War Department doctrine regarding the division of duties works (just so long as your buddy is competent), dispite the fact that expierence showed that it was a horrible idea.
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Looshey said correctly. I used the hanger since it was a large enough and "deep" enough target to soak up enough damage to have a legit scale to compare multiple weapons platforms. The same test could be performed on the shore battery as well since it too is a "deep" target. I've found some discrepancies that are listed on the "Projectile Strength Analysis" posted on the AH Trainer's website, but mostly minuscule and not worth mentioning. I'd love to contribute the info I have to share that isa currently not posted, but Im not quite sure who to approach or even if they're taking new information to share with the public.
A single M4A3 75mm with a full load of HE and the Calliope rockets mounted can take down an entire town. With the fast reload time, generous damage and splash area, and plenty of ammo it is not to be over-looked. Obviously, its bane is the lackluster AP round. You'd better have a buddy in a Firefly or M4A3W 76mm close by. :)
That might make a great entrie into the AHII wiki.Smokin,go to the wiki page and the imformation on posting should be there for you!
:salute
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Shoot an object with known hardness (see object settings in offline mode).
Divide that value by number of rounds needed to kill it.
Wow...Some people have way too much time on their hands.... ;)
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"There is no optimum firing range for any rocket. They are either HE (they rely on explosives to do damage), or hollow charge (H.E.A.T. IIRC. Meaning they don't rely on speed to puch through armor)"
Not quite true. The first British UPs ('Unrifled Projectiles') fired in anger were toted by the Fleet Air Arm's Swordfish Mk.II and employed a solid-steel warhead for penetrating the pressure hulls of U-boats.
:cool: