Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Reschke on June 24, 2010, 08:20:50 AM
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Yes I know it takes away from the fun of the dedicated bomber dudes but you guys should have more than enough perks to keep a good stash of bombers in the hangar for all kinds of flights.
By perking them into the 60 points+ per flight range (starting cost would be 20 points per plane in a formation) that should eliminate some of the whiners on the new radar settings. While I don't agree with the settings the only way for HTC to truly address this is to turn the planes like the Mossie and 110's into bombers and not "attack/fighter bombers" and perk the crap out of them. Plus you actually have to return the plane to the ground to get your points...no more of the dash and die bomber crap.
Yeah its not very well thought you but so be it.
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:huh
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60 perks seems a bit harsh, but Ive always thought a mild perk for the 4-engine heavies would make sense. I'd like to see more medium bombers used, plus it might reduce the bomb'n'bail lamery somewhat.
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Yes I know it takes away from the fun of the dedicated bomber dudes but you guys should have more than enough perks to keep a good stash of bombers in the hangar for all kinds of flights.
So, while I currently have 17+K worth of bomber perks stashed, and the new guy that I've recruited wants to learn how to fly, bomb, & gun proper-like in a B17, how does this allow him to learn from his mistakes? Once he gets his flight shot down, that's it? He doesn't get to try again because he's out of perks? Not cool. :huh
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:huh y'know the bomber guys are gonna :mad: that idea
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:huh y'know the bomber guys are gonna :mad: that idea
Damn right.
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the new guy that I've recruited wants to learn how to fly, bomb, & gun proper-like in a B17, how does this allow him to learn from his mistakes
he would learn by flying medium bombers, building perks to fly the game-changing stuff. the same way new fighter guys learn to fly unperked fighters building up perks to fly the 262.
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I think the problem with the bombers isn't the bomb load, it is the lack of good targets for the bombers. Right now, the only way they can effect game play is to hit airfields. If that was to change (ie strats being re-hashed), I think you'd find less porking at airfields.
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he would learn by flying medium bombers, building perks to fly the game-changing stuff. the same way new fighter guys learn to fly unperked fighters building up perks to fly the 262.
Bad comparison, as the bombers are dead meat on the table as soon as any fighter with a half clue decides to go after you and shoot you down.
The thing you can be sure though: IF anyone would still up a flight of B-17, he would make sure he's flying at maximum possible alt (30k+) to protect his perks.
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I think the problem with the bombers isn't the bomb load, it is the lack of good targets for the bombers. Right now, the only way they can effect game play is to hit airfields. If that was to change (ie strats being re-hashed), I think you'd find less porking at airfields.
This is very true. Give myself a plug with this idea: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291464.msg3707954.html#msg3707954 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291464.msg3707954.html#msg3707954)
Still, overall, -1. This will really only adversely effect the new guys, and are they really the threat with bombers?
The thing you can be sure though: IF anyone would still up a flight of B-17, he would make sure he's flying at maximum possible alt (30k+) to protect his perks.
+1
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Bad comparison, as the bombers are dead meat on the table as soon as any fighter with a half clue decides to go after you and shoot you down.
The thing you can be sure though: IF anyone would still up a flight of B-17, he would make sure he's flying at maximum possible alt (30k+) to protect his perks.
+1 here
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Yes I know it takes away from the fun of the dedicated bomber dudes but you guys should have more than enough perks to keep a good stash of bombers in the hangar for all kinds of flights.
By perking them into the 60 points+ per flight range (starting cost would be 20 points per plane in a formation) that should eliminate some of the whiners on the new radar settings. While I don't agree with the settings the only way for HTC to truly address this is to turn the planes like the Mossie and 110's into bombers and not "attack/fighter bombers" and perk the crap out of them. Plus you actually have to return the plane to the ground to get your points...no more of the dash and die bomber crap.
Yeah its not very well thought you but so be it.
-10,000.......Lets just perk everything, bombs, bullets, troops, gas, tires, tracks, radar time........ :x
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Dumb idea.
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NOPE. Don't make me drag out the big nope.
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We have bombers ?
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If anything we need a perked ord ssystem.
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I think the problem with the bombers isn't the bomb load, it is the lack of good targets for the bombers. Right now, the only way they can effect game play is to hit airfields. If that was to change (ie strats being re-hashed), I think you'd find less porking at airfields.
I have said this for YEARS!!!!
In all honesty the best strat system I have seen in place in a game like this was the one used in FA2-FA3 where you had factories in the rear supplying train loads of material to the different bases. Sure when hammered a base it automatically sent a request to the rear for resupply and then you had a whole other host of targets to go after. Like trains bringing supplies to the fields. We have convoys but you can't see them on the moving on the map and you can't see the roads that they use on the maps either so you don't have a way to hunt them down. With a train in FA they shot back at you and made it VERY interesting.
Oh and RTHolmes hit the nail on the head with his comparison. Doing some sort of bomber perk for the big boys allows the newbie to cut his teeth on the medium bombers which are great WHEN they get used.
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We have bombers ?
Yeah they are the targets that we in VF-17 like to hunt down...we suck at it but we try to find the high alt ones because those are the really dangerous dudes in my mind.
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I have to give the thumbs down for this idea. While not a big fan of buffers in general <they kimd of remind me of
neighbor's kids who like to come over and pee in YOUR pool while swimming>, no reason to penalize them this
harshly. The fighter guys have plenty of choice even with the current set of perked birds we have now.
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Just something to think about, perk bombers then give us something in trade, like porking fuel down to 25%?? This will go over like a f@rt in church :x
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Just something to think about, perk bombers then give us something in trade, like porking fuel down to 25%?? This will go over like a f@rt in church :x
There isn't anything wrong with that in my view but it goes back to the whole strat system then. You can bomb a base into the stone age but its going to come back up and the guys flying out of there in defense aren't going to take more than 25-50% fuel anyway. I think if you have a refinery target(s) in the mix that supplies fuel to all the bases then you really can effect the overall outcome of the base taking. BUT the other countries now know you are headed for their prize possessions and can defend it accordingly.
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The thing you can be sure though: IF anyone would still up a flight of B-17, he would make sure he's flying at maximum possible alt (30k+) to protect his perks.
Thats a bad thing? This is a sim right? how many B17's or Lancs or any other 4 engine bombers went in during the day less then 25k? Perking these bombers even at 30 a formation would at least reduce the number of "gamers" upping lancs to dive bomb a GV. It may actually force these guys to learn how to fly and bomb correctly, or "historically"
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If anything we need a perked ord ssystem.
Agreed. I dont think perking the 4-engine bombers in the LWMA simply for what the other folks said above. Perking the B17 and B24 with 60 perks is pretty darn harsh IMO. Buff drivers dont have as many targets to hit, like Delirium had mentioned. So why perk them? Even if some buffs flatten a base, hangars are only down for 15 minutes, so it aint like the war is completely lost and unbalanced when a base is flat.
If ord is perked, then the Lanc would see a light perk. Hence, we might just see a drop in Lancstuka behavior.
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I have to give the thumbs down for this idea. While not a big fan of buffers in general <they kimd of remind me of
neighbor's kids who like to come over and pee in YOUR pool while swimming>, no reason to penalize them this
harshly. The fighter guys have plenty of choice even with the current set of perked birds we have now.
91st Bomber Group, peeing in your pool since 2009.
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Lusche and spikes both nailed it, each in their own way.
Hangers went from 500lbs to 2500 lbs of ord required to destroy a long long time ago.
As a direct result of some people who thought it was fun to make it impossible for the other side to defend their fields. They would roll 10 + bombers or more and shut down both fronts. As a result settings were changed to make that harder.
Towns used to be smaller, with fewer acks, so that 1 or 2 people could take a field if it was undefended.
So HT made the towns bigger, with more acks, made it harder to roll fields single handed.
There is a long long history of change in order to balance Gameplay in AH. However, if there is a current problem with gameplay in AH it is that there are not enough bombers, not too many.
As a result there is not enough teamwork, people flying escort. People flying interception cap.
Perking the bombers is not the answer, in fact its headed in the exact wrong direction.
If your going to do that you might as well do away with field capture and winning the war.
And we really don't want to see the mains that one sided do we?
Aces High Main arena's need a "Balance" of many different options all in play at one time.
Remove too much of any one side of those and gameplay suffers as a result.
Remember its about "Combat" and there are many many different flavors of that.
But there is no "combat" in rolling an undefended base with an old style NOE attack.
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posted by GhostH
Remember its about "Combat" and there are many many different flavors of that.
But there is no "combat" in rolling an undefended base with an old style NOE attack.
THAT is exactly what HiTech said when he come in the main on TT the other day when he changed the settings. It was to promote COMBAT which is what he wanted.
\
As to perking the bombers NAWW, JUST stop the diving of the level bombers, the other day we had a lanc that was being used like a b5n and then turning it like a spite, which should have torn his wings off but didn't, if the level bombers couldn't drop bombs unless they were in the bombsite, in level flight,
it would fix that problem I think
ab8aac
out
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I think i am going to be sick.
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Aces High Main arena's need a "Balance" of many different options all in play at one time.
Remove too much of any one side of those and gameplay suffers as a result.
Remember its about "Combat" and there are many many different flavors of that.
But there is no "combat" in rolling an undefended base with an old style NOE attack.
I'll agree with your last statements here.
As I said to open the thread I didn't really put a bunch of thought into it but I thought enough about it to realize in my times in the LWMA arenas to see dweebs flying Lancasters and B-17's or B-24's at 150 feet off the ground and trying to lob bombs down onto GVs taking a base to realize that the bombnbail dweebs need to be penalized somehow.
So forget the perk points that I tossed out there and start looking at different aspects of it.
So the question is how can we as a group write up something to pass on to HTC that will be...
- Effective at HELPING or even expanding upon gameplay and not hindering it?
- Capable of explaining several ideas with concise and well thought out points to help with point one above.
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JUST stop the diving of the level bombers, the other day we had a lanc that was being used like a b5n and then turning it like a spite, which should have torn his wings off but didn't, if the level bombers couldn't drop bombs unless they were in the bombsite, in level flight,
it would fix that problem I think
ab8aac
out
That happens ALL the dang time and that is the reason for the change in the radar settings...along with the big buff raids that flew at less than 200 feet to "evade radar"...naaa they were evading combat and then whined when you flew over them as a friendly. When I saw that happening I called 'em out on 200 more times than not. However I have no problem with a NOE fighter/bomber raid coordinating with a goon or ground based troop run. Those are accurate more times than not.
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The thing everyone always seems to forget, even myself, its a GAME and it will be "GAMED" by "GAMERS" Ive had to learn to just let it go when something "GAMEY" happens and just up my new plane or tank and start over again. What would be nice is a "GAMER" arena and a "SIM" arena. Take all the "GAMEY" settings out and make it more realistic in the "SIM" arena and let the "GAMERS" have their fun in the "GAME" arena. Would be interesting to see how they populated....
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Thats a bad thing? This is a sim right? how many B17's or Lancs or any other 4 engine bombers went in during the day less then 25k? Perking these bombers even at 30 a formation would at least reduce the number of "gamers" upping lancs to dive bomb a GV. It may actually force these guys to learn how to fly and bomb correctly, or "historically"
It can be a bad thing for several reasons.
It's not really a sim when it comes to gameplay. If you want to force guys to fly "correctly", why only for buff drivers? I say: Perk all fighters too That will teach them to fight historically instead of furballing close to the ground. :neener:
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It can be a bad thing for several reasons.
It's not really a sim when it comes to gameplay. If you want to force guys to fly "correctly", why only for buff drivers? I say: Perk all fighters too That will teach them to fight historically instead of furballing close to the ground. :neener:
You mean they didn't really fly between buildings like in the movie??? :O
Its not really a sim at all...... But it is a fun game.
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91st Bomber Group, peeing in your pool since 2009.
Now I know why my pool is having sooooooooooo much trouble getting clear this season. Wait a minute, You've been peeing in the wrong pool as I'm a Bish you tard you! ROFLOL :noid
All the Best...
Jay
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the only way i would agree to perking the heavy bombers, is that any plane with an eny of 15 or lower should also have a perk price.
this would only be fair to all.
dhawk
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Now I know why my pool is having sooooooooooo much trouble getting clear this season. Wait a minute, You've been peeing in the wrong pool as I'm a Bish you tard you! ROFLOL :noid
All the Best...
Jay
Whoops :uhoh
In our defense it's hard to tell who's pool we're hitting from 20,000ft.
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I'd be happy with a more complex targeting.
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I'd be happy with a more complex targeting.
Like the manual bomb site used in the AVA? Bet buff use would fall through the floor if they used it in the MA.
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Like the manual bomb site used in the AVA? Bet buff use would fall through the floor if they used it in the MA.
I'm not so sure about that. It will take a hit (players switching to good ole 110g), but fall through floor? IMHO probably not. It's a thing relatively easy to adapt to. (MA was actually using this setting years ago)
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Like the manual bomb site used in the AVA? Bet buff use would fall through the floor if they used it in the MA.
I doubt it.. Manual calibration is not that hard.. In fact I'd prefer it in the MA to the cheesy auto cal. currently used.. :rock
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I doubt it.. Manual calibration is not that hard.. In fact I'd prefer it in the MA to the cheesy auto cal. currently used.. :rock
I'd like to see it also, the laser guided system now is too easy and i do my bombing in the SBD. :D
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I think the problem with the bombers isn't the bomb load, it is the lack of good targets for the bombers. Right now, the only way they can effect game play is to hit airfields. If that was to change (ie strats being re-hashed), I think you'd find less porking at airfields.
Maybe put a city near a large airfield, or 10 perks for a set of buffs. Single bombers not effected. Just throwing ideas out there.
Maybe 30 perks for wingman in fighters. Get shot down hit enter keep fighting hehe, wishful thinking. :D :rofl
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Yes I know it takes away from the fun of the dedicated bomber dudes but you guys should have more than enough perks to keep a good stash of bombers in the hangar for all kinds of flights.
By perking them into the 60 points+ per flight range (starting cost would be 20 points per plane in a formation) that should eliminate some of the whiners on the new radar settings. While I don't agree with the settings the only way for HTC to truly address this is to turn the planes like the Mossie and 110's into bombers and not "attack/fighter bombers" and perk the crap out of them. Plus you actually have to return the plane to the ground to get your points...no more of the dash and die bomber crap.
Yeah its not very well thought you but so be it.
I don't believe HTC should have to address anything. The ones that are complaining need to address THEIR issues.
The new guys need the big bombers unperked so they they can take part in the game and still feel like they're having some kind of impact in the game.
IMO this new dar setup is just want was needed to get the AR234 out and about. No need to change a bunch of stuff in the game just because of a radar change :rolleyes: Just use your head.
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B29 should be perked......I just haven't found it in the hanger yet but I know its here somewhere....when the heck is Betty going to get all her crap out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
999000 <S>
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I don't believe HTC should have to address anything. One ones that are complaining need to address THEIR issues.
The new guys need the big bombers unperked so they they can take part in the game and still feel like they're having some kind of impact in the game.
IMO this new dar setup is just want was needed to get the AR234 out and about. No need to change a bunch of stuff in the game just because of a radar change :rolleyes: Just use your head.
Well said, it's the end of the world every time HTC changes something; eventually everyone adapts and forgets exactly how the change has ruined the game.
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I'm not so sure about that. It will take a hit (players switching to good ole 110g), but fall through floor? IMHO probably not. It's a thing relatively easy to adapt to. (MA was actually using this setting years ago)
I learned to bomb with the old method. Still wish (after six years of easy-mode) we had it back.
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I have said this for YEARS!!!!
In all honesty the best strat system I have seen in place in a game like this was the one used in FA2-FA3 where you had factories in the rear supplying train loads of material to the different bases. Sure when hammered a base it automatically sent a request to the rear for resupply and then you had a whole other host of targets to go after. Like trains bringing supplies to the fields. We have convoys but you can't see them on the moving on the map and you can't see the roads that they use on the maps either so you don't have a way to hunt them down. With a train in FA they shot back at you and made it VERY interesting.
Sounds like FA pretty much ripped off AW's strat system.
ack-ack
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I learned to bomb with the old method. Still wish (after six years of easy-mode) we had it back.
:aok
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all i know is i grow tired of having an epic CV vs Base Battle ruined by some dweeb who sinks the boat with a formation of sub 10k heavy bombers/AR234's.
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all i know is i grow tired of having an epic CV vs Base Battle ruined by some dweeb who sinks the boat with a formation of sub 10k heavy bombers/AR234's.
Wahh.. Practice your 5 inch.. :bolt: 234's are perked..
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I learned to bomb with the old method. Still wish (after six years of easy-mode) we had it back.
I enjoyed bombing with the old method way back in 1999. It made you actually do something instead of just launch, bomb, bail repeat!
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all i know is i grow tired of having an epic CV vs Base Battle ruined by some dweeb who sinks the boat with a formation of sub 10k heavy bombers/AR234's.
Then don't park the CV 2 miles off shore and expect it to survive!
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-10,000.......Lets just perk everything, bombs, bullets, troops, gas, tires, tracks, radar time........ :x
LOL :rofl, 100 perks for 5 minutes of gas!!!!! 1 million for troops!!! :lol
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Then don't park the CV 2 miles off shore and expect it to survive!
geographic location has nothing to do with the cheese that is low level heavy bombers being so effective vs. a carrier strike force in this game.
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with the amount of destruction those bombers can take to the enemy, I am surprised the ENY isnt lower and/or there isnt a minor perk price put on the heavy bombers. The Lancs, B24's, and B17's all offer awesome amounts of ordnance, especially while in flights. Yes, the Ju88's can carry more ord than the B17, but it is hardly worth mentioning and the only real useful ordnance is the 4/500kg bombs or dual torpedoes. The 20/50kg bombs are best used to carpet bomb and tickle a few ground targets. Also, the Ju88 is slower, climbs like grandma on a ladder, and has defensive armament hardly worth mentioning. I'll keep the "big 3" as they are.
I'll offer a 4 perk point cost per Lanc, 3 per B24, and 2 per B17. If the weak (but very fast) Ar234 can garner a cost of 60, then these three big boys deserve something for their massive amounts of ords.
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I have said this for YEARS!!!!
In all honesty the best strat system I have seen in place in a game like this was the one used in FA2-FA3 where you had factories in the rear supplying train loads of material to the different bases. Sure when hammered a base it automatically sent a request to the rear for resupply and then you had a whole other host of targets to go after. Like trains bringing supplies to the fields. We have convoys but you can't see them on the moving on the map and you can't see the roads that they use on the maps either so you don't have a way to hunt them down. With a train in FA they shot back at you and made it VERY interesting.
Oh and RTHolmes hit the nail on the head with his comparison. Doing some sort of bomber perk for the big boys allows the newbie to cut his teeth on the medium bombers which are great WHEN they get used.
Honestly, If I didn't know better, I'd think you were talking about the AH strat system.
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geographic location has nothing to do with the cheese that is low level heavy bombers being so effective vs. a carrier strike force in this game.
yeah. get below 10k and see how long that bomber group lasts :aok
and reschke is right. these CVs arent meant for base dueling. They are utilized best out to sea at 15 to 20 miles. Use a mission sortie to hit the field and do not supply the enemy with a radar stream TO the CV where they can see where you upped from. there you go. you got the best CV tactic of the game in the length of 3 sentences. you need more info on how to CV?
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Perking planes because you feel they're misused is not a good solution in my opinion. Lots of planes and vehicles are used in ways that would never have happened in the war, not just 4-engine bombers. They are strategic bombers that are in a game with very few strategic reasons to fly them so they're used in a tactical way most of the time. Not the bomber guy's fault-- he's got to bomb something, so hangars, towns and gv's are it.
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with the amount of destruction those bombers can take to the enemy, I am surprised the ENY isnt lower and/or there isnt a minor perk price put on the heavy bombers. The Lancs, B24's, and B17's all offer awesome amounts of ordnance, especially while in flights. Yes, the Ju88's can carry more ord than the B17, but it is hardly worth mentioning and the only real useful ordnance is the 4/500kg bombs or dual torpedoes. The 20/50kg bombs are best used to carpet bomb and tickle a few ground targets. Also, the Ju88 is slower, climbs like grandma on a ladder, and has defensive armament hardly worth mentioning. I'll keep the "big 3" as they are.
I'll offer a 4 perk point cost per Lanc, 3 per B24, and 2 per B17. If the weak (but very fast) Ar234 can garner a cost of 60, then these three big boys deserve something for their massive amounts of ords.
yup thats my take on it. of course it would make more sense if we had more medium bombers to fill the non-perked gap - He111, Do17, Wellington, errr ... some italian, russian and japanese stuff (I'm clueless on these).
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yup thats my take on it. of course it would make more sense if we had more medium bombers to fill the non-perked gap - He111, Do17, Wellington,
so the only free bombers are very slow and underarmed early war machines... that's akin to perking every fighter beyond a P-40B or 109E4 in the LW arena. :lol
Well fine for me if you keep fair and perk the fighters too. :)
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well the tiger is perked and thats a MW tank, and as we know perk has more to do with gameplay balance than performance, dates, production numbers etc etc. besides the Ki-67 and Bostons are hardly sluggish performers, although they dont carry 14,000lb of ords.
I wonder what % of damage/sorties etc is done by the 3 heavies (esp the lanc) vs the medium bombers? ;)
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well the tiger is perked and thats a MW tank, and as we know perk has more to do with gameplay balance than performance,
Eeexactly. And our free heavy bombers are not unbalancing the gameplay at all.
And the gap-filling medium bombers you mentioned (He 111, Do 17) are all slow, low, underarmed, vulnerable and most of them lack punch. It's not particularly difficult to kill Lancs & B17s in out typical late war ride. My point still stands: It's just like perking all fighters better than a P-40. I'm serious: If you want to limit heavy bomber use by perks "just because", you have to do that with fighters too.
And yes, the Boston IS a horrible performer for LW standards, because a Boston pilot can only hope he's not encountering any fighters. It's not fast enough to run from anything faster than a I-16 or Hurri I, has almost no defensive gunfire and a very short range.
I wonder what % of damage/sorties etc is done by the 3 heavies (esp the lanc) vs the medium bombers? ;)
Jabos like F4U-d, 47, and particularly the 110G are probably responsible for much more damage than all heavy buffs combined.
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The ONLY reason I say perk the heavy bombers is to keep the "gamers" from using them as dive bombers or in ways they were not historically intended to be used in real life. I know "gamers" always find a way around it but they would run out of perk eventually. Or like someone else said already, sorry to many to look back at, make it so planes with bomb sites can only drop bombs from the bomber position.
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I'd have no problem making the bombsight equipped planes able to drop only from bombardier position.
The funny thing about the arguments against dive-bombing heavies is that it's really a gv-er complaint. How many fighter guys hate seeing 4-engine bomber formations on the deck...I see that and I think 'Merry Christmas to me' not 'oh no I hate to see that'. You can't perk planes just because they aren't used right or every plane in the game would have to be perked, as well as all the flaks that kill towns etc.
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Throughout this whole thread, I'm still wondering how this is relevant to the new NOE settings...
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Eeexactly. And our free heavy bombers are not unbalancing the gameplay at all.
I'd love to see one of your pie charts on this but I realise its not possible in the same way as fighter usage. in terms of balance all I mean is that the big 3 must do 90% of all buff damage in the MAs, if that was fighters they would be perked. I imagine the effect of no perked fighters would be similar (eg. 262/Temp/C-hogs getting 90% of all fighter kills).
And yes, the Boston IS a horrible performer for LW standards, because a Boston pilot can only hope he's not encountering any fighters. It's not fast enough to run from anything faster than a I-16 or Hurri I, has almost no defensive gunfire and a very short range.
got to disagree here, I fly them alot and find them more survivable than anything else, purely due to speed. see a co-alt fighter and put them into a 1000fpm dive at full power and it takes sectors for the fighter to catch up, at which point you still have a very maneuverable buff for limited evasion.
Jabos like F4U-d, 47, and particularly the 110G are probably responsible for much more damage than all heavy buffs combined
this is certainly true, but then the jabos are not using typical historical loadouts. 1000lb bombs feels kinda gamey to me, I only take them for anti-shipping sorties (which seems like a fair enough riposte to the ahistorical puffy ack and fleets parked 2 miles offshore.) even in jugs I generally take 3x500lb because that was the standard RAF loadout.
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Jabos like F4U-d, 47, and particularly the 110G are probably responsible for much more damage than all heavy buffs combined.
PERK ORDS!!!! :noid
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I dont think they should be perked but i do wish that if the ones with formation's enabled flew say under 3000 ft for more than a set amount of time that would lose their drones.
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PERK ORDS!!!! :noid
Again; Perk everything, give newbies 500 perk points across the board to start..... :x NOT!!!!!!
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I dont think they should be perked but i do wish that if the ones with formation's enabled flew say under 3000 ft for more than a set amount of time that would lose their drones.
1k bombs for fighters should be perked.
Buffs another subject.
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yeah. get below 10k and see how long that bomber group lasts :aok
and reschke is right. these CVs arent meant for base dueling. They are utilized best out to sea at 15 to 20 miles. Use a mission sortie to hit the field and do not supply the enemy with a radar stream TO the CV where they can see where you upped from. there you go. you got the best CV tactic of the game in the length of 3 sentences. you need more info on how to CV?
321BAR , if it makes you feel better to sidestep the reality of what happens in AH by listing possible tactics(that in the context of AH almost never happen mind you) have at it but the reality is that no matter where a CV is on the map heavy bombers are a far too effective tool for sinking it.If you are claiming that <10k bombers dont routinely sink CV's in AH then i must be playing a different version because my sqauddie makes a living out of doing it.
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I dont think they should be perked but i do wish that if the ones with formation's enabled flew say under 3000 ft for more than a set amount of time that would lose their drones.
It would have to be quite a while, and people would work around it. Fly at 3100 feet then dive down, do your bombing and pop back up. I wouldn't think it would have that much effect. Anyway, bombers below 3000 are usually dead meat anyway.
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I'd love to see one of your pie charts on this but I realise its not possible in the same way as fighter usage. in terms of balance all I mean is that the big 3 must do 90% of all buff damage in the MAs, if that was fighters they would be perked. I imagine the effect of no perked fighters would be similar (eg. 262/Temp/C-hogs getting 90% of all fighter kills).
There are not that many buffs to choose from as we do have fighters. And buffs are competing with / fighting against those. You can't just take an isolated look at them. The bomber has to get to the target & back, and it's 190A8's, Ponies, N1K, Typhoons that are hunting him.
We have the big three: B-17, B-24-Lancaster
Only one really capable medium bomber: The B-26
Four more medium bombers, that have many drawbacks in LW, even the very fast and quick climbing Ki-67 has the problem of having a light payload. Flying a heavy 110 is often much more effective than a Ki-67 flown correctly to it's strenghts
And finally the perked Ar 234.
Again, heavy bombers are not unbalancing. If you just perk them if it's too dam many of them compared to the B-25C or Boston, you have to perk the P-51D, N1K, Spit 16 too, because it's too dam many of them compared to the 109F4 and other "light" birds. Or look at the CV segment: Almost everything that's rolling from a CV deck with bombs is a F4U-D or F6F. Perk them too, let players earn their right to fly those by flying TBM's & SBD's
If you just want to encourge more diversity, you will have to find another approach. One that is fair to all sides.
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If i've said it once, i've said it a hundred times. The problem is not with the bombers themselves, but with the ord bunkers that are left up at the enemy fields. How hard is it to take out 4 ord bunkers?! Hit supplys at the back bases and they won't get the front lines supplied. The game is setup in a way that you can effectively take bombers out of play without the need to perk anything. 2 loaded 51s can takes out bomber hangers and 3 can get hangers and ord.
But you never see that happening. Instead, guys just climb to 15k over their own field waiting for the emeny to come to them. All one has to do is watch the map to see what is unfolding. If the bad guys hit your VH and ords...guess what, GVs are coming. If they're hitting dar and fighter hangers...planes are coming.
Some folks expect HTC to reconfigure the game because they're not wise enough to think for themselves. "oh the enemy is bombing us. HTC needs to perk the bombers and ord" :rolleyes: No, you need to go blow up the bad guys ord or take their hangers out. You don't need 7 guys hanging out over your own field waiting for a couple of 47s to come in to do what you should be doing at their field.
Last night for instance, I watch the map for almost 2 hours as 1 set of B17s hit every radar tower on our front lines. He must have gotten a dozen before i caught up to him. By then he was at almost 40K. Not 1 person on my side, in that area at the time even attempted to go after the bombers.
There is nothing wrong with the way the game is laid out. But if you want to play the "win the war" thing, then use the tools HTC has given you, instead of asking for the bad guys to be handicapped with perked ords, planes and whatever else you can come up with.
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321BAR , if it makes you feel better to sidestep the reality of what happens in AH by listing possible tactics(that in the context of AH almost never happen mind you) have at it but the reality is that no matter where a CV is on the map heavy bombers are a far too effective tool for sinking it.If you are claiming that <10k bombers dont routinely sink CV's in AH then i must be playing a different version because my sqauddie makes a living out of doing it.
True, with clarification!
I routinely sank CVs from 8k as I knew how much to lead them by at that alt. Alone, not with help.
The only 'trick' to it was not to come in over the stream of aircraft going from the CV to the airfield.
Anywhere from approx 100 to 180 degrees to the stream almost guarenteed you a clear run in.
180 degrees was best as it limits the number of 5" guns that can train on you.
Its all very well blaming the buff drivers but the guys upping off the CV play a large part in its demise.
You leave a clear run in its gonna get sunk, a cap would go a long way to stop it, but no-one wants to do that. Do they.
[edit] should add - plenty would chase you once the CV had been sunk just to get that last kill before they in their turn died.
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Some folks expect HTC to reconfigure the game because they're not wise enough to think for themselves. "oh the enemy is bombing us. HTC needs to perk the bombers and ord" :rolleyes:
There is nothing wrong with the way the game is laid out. But if you want to play the "win the war" thing, then use the tools HTC has given you, instead of asking for the bad guys to be handicapped with perked ords, planes and whatever else you can come up with.
Absolutely agree. Got a problem? Solve it yourself. Don't wait for the "government" (HTC).
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Maybe 30 perks for wingman in fighters. Get shot down hit enter keep fighting hehe, wishful thinking. :D :rofl
Actually that's a novel thought. Very interesting. :aok
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I've been reading this thread and appreciate it's intent.. As a buff enthusiast for about two years now I would say this..
First, "dive bombing" with level bombers, is in my IMHO a cheesy tactic and it would be nice if that went away.. I won't say I've never done it that was a long time ago.. To me, It's the ultimate in lame..
Second, I think formations should have a perk value attached.. (The main reason for this would really be to suppress the ol' bomb and bail "tactic").. Another Gamey aspect that should go away.. Again, just my opinion..
The new players would, of course, be able to up singles without a perk penalty but would have to "earn their wings" so to speak, to have the privilege of getting a formation..
Also, I would argue that medium bombers like the B26 and KI67 can have far more impact on the game than the painfully slow 4 engine jobs, in the right hands..
Just some thoughts from a buff stick.. :salute
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Perk ord instead. I've been saying this for some time. Up to 500lbs are free. Beyond that:
.125 perks times number of 1,000lbs bombs per sortie. Don't charge more for drones.
.25 perks times 2,000lbs
.5 perks for 4,000lbs
So in theory, you can perk bomb load-out on attack planes as well.
Otherwise, i don't see to many 234 freaks in here and you can use the perks instead of just sitting there. :old:
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Perk ord instead. I've been saying this for some time. Up to 500lbs are free. Beyond that:
.125 perks times number of 1,000lbs bombs per sortie. Don't charge more for drones.
.25 perks times 2,000lbs
.5 perks for 4,000lbs
So in theory, you can perk bomb load-out on attack planes as well.
Otherwise, i don't see to many 234 freaks in here and you can use the perks instead of just sitting there. :old:
I'd say a true perked ords system has to go beyond that and take plane type into account. Make big bombs more costly for fighters than for genuine bomber/attackers like the TBM, SBD, Ju 87
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Perk ord instead. I've been saying this for some time. Up to 500lbs are free. Beyond that:
.125 perks times number of 1,000lbs bombs per sortie. Don't charge more for drones.
.25 perks times 2,000lbs
.5 perks for 4,000lbs
So in theory, you can perk bomb load-out on attack planes as well.
Otherwise, i don't see to many 234 freaks in here and you can use the perks instead of just sitting there. :old:
Or perk ord as well.... But do you base the loss of those perks to the loss of bombers in the formation? Or for their use, whether or not they hit anything? Just gets complicated there.. Maybe you could elaborate or point me to a post where that is spoken about.. Another thought I had was making manual calibration necessary when formations are used..
And just an FYI to the folks who like to flame my posts with regard to my squad: I do not post here to represent my Squadron, it's practices, skillz or lack there of.. The LCA to me, is a great bunch or guys with a wide variety of talents and views on the game.. Other than that I post here my personal thoughts alone and do not intend in anyway to speak for my squad..
:salute
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How about set a flat perk cost per non heavily damaged aircraft or GV no mater where you are? This would make anyone think twice about bomb and bail tactics.
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How about set a flat perk cost per non heavily damaged aircraft or GV no mater where you are? This would make anyone think twice about bomb and bail tactics.
But there again, you sort of cut out the new guy who has no perks to spend.. Unless your going to give him a few hundred to burn when he starts out.. And I'd say screw that.. Make them Earn it.. But if say a single B17 was free but a formation was perked at 15 (5 per plane) Not too many guys will continue that for long (bomb and bail).. Or you could also only allow a perk bonus if one lands.. I.E. No points if you just bail.. Tons of possibility's I guess.. Making the game harder to game is whats at issue I suppose.. But if I were HiTech, I'd want the game to remain highly playable for the new folk as that's what keeps any bussiness alive as us old tards die off.. :lol
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The only change needed is to make bomb release only possible from the bomb aiming position.
The main drawback in perking formations is your penalising the lone buff driver and (more importantly) newbie who just wants to go for a flight and bomb something.
Yes I know he should have a fighter escort yadda yadda yadda. But the fact is most don't, they just want to go blow something up.
All you do is either chase him away, or make him join a hoard
Perking ord, hmm....
I would base it on how common it was.
Buffs would remain free, 1000's for certain fighters would get perked if they were a rare loadout for that type.
This is what I think HT was on about when he mentioned it way way back as it would encourage players to use a wider variety of aircraft.
[edit] Question - What chance do you think a lone buff has against most of the cannon armed fighters (if you perk formations)
EG a Tiffy v Lanc - Come up low on 6 o'clock at most 4 x 20mm v 4x .50cals = DEAD, at least a formation gives them a fighting chance.
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Up to 500lbs are free. Beyond that ... etc
ok for hardpoint mounted bombs where the choice is 500lb or 1000lb, but wont work for bomb bay bombs in buffs.
2x500lb does alot more damage than 1x1000lb. eg. 12x500lb loadout for B-17 does more damage than 6x1,000lb loadout. 28x500lb for lanc (very common RL loadout we dont have) does more than 14x1000lb, 8x250lb internal for Boston/A20 (also common loadout we dont have) does more damage than 4x500lb etc.
surely a 28x500lb lanc with WEP (both historical, neither of which we have) would have to attract a mild perk?
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surely a 28x500lb lanc with WEP (both historical, neither of which we have) would have to attract a mild perk?
Why?
No hard solid reason to perk any of the heavy prop buffs we have.
[edit] Unless you are trying to restrict / limit their use, which is ALL any of the suggestions would do.
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well a single buff pilot with his formation could drop 14 hangars with that loadout, or pork ords and radar at 5 large fields and a small field, or 9 small fields. sounds like a game-changer to me.
btw why doesnt our lanc have WEP? :headscratch:
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well a single buff pilot with his formation could drop 14 hangars with that loadout, or pork ords and radar at 5 large fields and a small field, or 9 small fields. sounds like a game-changer to me.
btw why doesnt our lanc have WEP? :headscratch:
You need salvo 2 to drop FHs, so its only 7.
If a Lanc driver gets to fly to 5 seperate fields untouched the only people to blame are the defenders.
It's the usual I don't want to do it, someone else can, or can't we just get HT to perk buffs out of the game.
Been a problem for years, another is no-one wants to cap CVs so buffs come in un-molested at only 8k and sink it.
When do you put the onus on players to protect their assets?
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28/2 = 14 :D
theres a few out there that like to do fleet defence, and I'm one of them. although I'd say its only about 1 in 5 sorties to a cv where I see fighters circling at 14-15k. those sorties dont usually end well ...
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28/2 = 14 :D
theres a few out there that like to do fleet defence, and I'm one of them. although I'd say its only about 1 in 5 sorties to a cv where I see fighters circling at 14-15k. those sorties dont usually end well ...
2.5k to drop a hanger?
Was talking about the 14x1k loadout, salvo 2 = 7 hangers.
But you and the few that do cap a CV are the exception.
I could probably count on one hand the amount of caps I came across in 5 years of playing, 99.999999999% head right to the field.
The onus has to be shifted back to the players to protect what they have, instead of continually adjusting things to allow for the lack of it.
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formation salvo 2 = 6x500lb = 3000lb, which is equivalent to ~3,600lb of 1,000lb bombs, enough to drop a hangar if you're accurate enough. or you can salvo 3 to be really sure, still 9 and a bit hangars.
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formation salvo 2 = 6x500lb = 3000lb, which is equivalent to ~3,600lb of 1,000lb bombs, enough to drop a hangar if you're accurate enough. or you can salvo 3 to be really sure, still 9 and a bit hangars.
OK I'll go with that.
The whole time the guy is tootling around in his Lancs dropping 9 hangers what are the defenders doing?
Part of a creeping apathy toward having to defend important assets.
Couple of good examples -
CV - covered earlier
VH - Going back to the single arena days, 500 guys on a small map. How often was the V Base that spawned into HQ snuck fully up? VERY often, and yes it happened to my side when I was on, so I was just as guilty of not watching what was going on. Did lead to awsome fights to retake it though :lol
Base near HQ - Same as V Bases, no-one noticed until too late.
HQ goes down - How many sat and bit**** about it v how many actually resupplied it.
The majority of the changes were to compensate for -
Lack of awareness
Someone elses job
Cant be bothered
Its almost to the point where you wont have to worry about protecting any assets because a way will be found to make it so the players don't have to.
I know it kinda wandered off topic a little, but it's all part of the bigger picture.
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My view is that the F6 bomb sight is far too easy in auto mode....... plus I would welcome a perk on ord over 500lb. (250kg)
I also believe that,
"bombers" (as decided by the clipboard button) should only be permitted drop/release from F6
"attackers" (as decioded by the clip board button) should have F6 & formations disabled, forcing pilot release
The main criticsm I have of AH bombing at the moment is the ability to drop small targets with a high degree of certainty from alts of upto and exceeding 20K when using the auto mode bomb sight.
The main concern I have of the bomber in AH game play is the lack of bomber targets that interface with game play in a direct way. Strat is very indirect and now (generally) very remote.
Medium bombers carry not much more than heavy fighters and so we see the P38, P47, Typhoon, P51 (all with 1000lb'ers) favoured over the Mossie, A20, B25 , B26, (limited to 500lb) perking ord over 500 would tend to redress the balance and reflect the comparative rareness of the 1000lb bomb load used with fighter attackers.
Rockets (air to ground) and ammo are also far too effective against sructures IMO. This should be weakened to return the role of building attrition to the bomb.
Hopefully the net result of this would be more use of medium bombers with their heavier ord loadouts (when limited to 500lb bombs) for town and airfield attrition.
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The main criticsm I have of AH bombing at the moment is the ability to drop small targets with a high degree of certainty from alts of upto and exceeding 20K when using the auto mode bomb sight.
I've always wanted a wind layer at 10k,12k,14k,20k, and a strong one at 25k. This way, they would be more accurate at lower altitudes.
The main concern I have of the bomber in AH game play is the lack of bomber targets that interface with game play in a direct way. Strat is very indirect and now (generally) very remote.
Agreed 110%, the bomber guys need something to affect gameplay other than the strats which aren't doing the job.
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Tilt I fully understand where you're coming from.
But -
Perking 1000lbs for heavy buffs would all but kill them from the game. They simply aren't worth it.
F6 - I totally agree with, in buffs bomb release F6 only!
Easy mode sight - Dunno, you have to give the newbs a carrot, or risk losing them after 2 weeks.
Strat - Yup, never was great back in 2007, heard it's worse now. It does need a way to directly interface with 'main game play'.
Still say if perking ord - only for those planes were it would be considered a rare loadout, that may affect Pony usage etc for ground attack and bring in more of the regular ones (Tiffys, Jugs, Mossies etc)
Rockets - Was the Tiffy and Mossie given the correct rockets after the remodell, or do they still use the generic U.S. one?
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I disagree with only able to drop bombs from the bombsight, and here's why.
Most of the medium bombers were also used to do low level runs, esp in the pacific.
The vast majority of those runs were 500 feet or less, many of them used either delay fuses or parachute bombs.
So they did not have the bombs going off until the bombers were clear.
NOE in medium bombers works quite well if you know what your doing. And its following historical precedent so why should they be punished? Heck most of the b25's don't even have a bombsight!
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How about set a flat perk cost per non heavily damaged aircraft or GV no mater where you are? This would make anyone think twice about bomb and bail tactics.
[/q
I meant to add you only get charged the perk if you BAIL out of a perfectly good plane, not if you get shot down. This may stop or at least limit the number of bomb and bail tactics.
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I meant to add you only get charged the perk if you BAIL out of a perfectly good plane, not if you get shot down. This may stop or at least limit the number of bomb and bail tactics.
Will change them only into bomb & auger or bomb & rip off yer wing tactics.
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If i've said it once, i've said it a hundred times. The problem is not with the bombers themselves, but with the ord bunkers that are left up at the enemy fields. How hard is it to take out 4 ord bunkers?! Hit supplys at the back bases and they won't get the front lines supplied. The game is setup in a way that you can effectively take bombers out of play without the need to perk anything. 2 loaded 51s can takes out bomber hangers and 3 can get hangers and ord.
But you never see that happening. Instead, guys just climb to 15k over their own field waiting for the emeny to come to them. All one has to do is watch the map to see what is unfolding. If the bad guys hit your VH and ords...guess what, GVs are coming. If they're hitting dar and fighter hangers...planes are coming.
Some folks expect HTC to reconfigure the game because they're not wise enough to think for themselves. "oh the enemy is bombing us. HTC needs to perk the bombers and ord" :rolleyes: No, you need to go blow up the bad guys ord or take their hangers out. You don't need 7 guys hanging out over your own field waiting for a couple of 47s to come in to do what you should be doing at their field.
Last night for instance, I watch the map for almost 2 hours as 1 set of B17s hit every radar tower on our front lines. He must have gotten a dozen before i caught up to him. By then he was at almost 40K. Not 1 person on my side, in that area at the time even attempted to go after the bombers.
There is nothing wrong with the way the game is laid out. But if you want to play the "win the war" thing, then use the tools HTC has given you, instead of asking for the bad guys to be handicapped with perked ords, planes and whatever else you can come up with.
TAHNK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! Like ThndrEgg says many many time on country channel...."DON'T WANT BASES TAKEN PORK TROOPS' do they NO! Same with bombers dont want your gv bombed pork ords. Get back into the game peole and don't just sit back for easy kills and let everyone else do all the work. :rock
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If i've said it once, i've said it a hundred times. The problem is not with the bombers themselves, but with the ord bunkers that are left up at the enemy fields. How hard is it to take out 4 ord bunkers?! Hit supplys at the back bases and they won't get the front lines supplied. The game is setup in a way that you can effectively take bombers out of play without the need to perk anything. 2 loaded 51s can takes out bomber hangers and 3 can get hangers and ord.
But you never see that happening. Instead, guys just climb to 15k over their own field waiting for the emeny to come to them. All one has to do is watch the map to see what is unfolding. If the bad guys hit your VH and ords...guess what, GVs are coming. If they're hitting dar and fighter hangers...planes are coming.
Some folks expect HTC to reconfigure the game because they're not wise enough to think for themselves. "oh the enemy is bombing us. HTC needs to perk the bombers and ord" :rolleyes: No, you need to go blow up the bad guys ord or take their hangers out. You don't need 7 guys hanging out over your own field waiting for a couple of 47s to come in to do what you should be doing at their field.
Last night for instance, I watch the map for almost 2 hours as 1 set of B17s hit every radar tower on our front lines. He must have gotten a dozen before i caught up to him. By then he was at almost 40K. Not 1 person on my side, in that area at the time even attempted to go after the bombers.
There is nothing wrong with the way the game is laid out. But if you want to play the "win the war" thing, then use the tools HTC has given you, instead of asking for the bad guys to be handicapped with perked ords, planes and whatever else you can come up with.
You are correct and I completely agree. Its just that simple for someone to do, but in todays society we promote laziness and the lack of effort.
I would look deeper behind this facade of this complaint, it boils down to a few things and one of which is score and How can we can make it easier to get more kills with the least effort?
This idea of perking bombers or ords is sort of like the same argument that lowering dar would promote more fights..... yeah right. Thank the BBS Generals who finally convinced the Kremlin or they succumbed to make that brilliant change with their infinite wisdom and insight.
For many of you, not all of you that have posted here, if you dont have the advantage, not just an advantage but "the advantage" in some form or fashion, you would not fight anyhow, period. Why?, score. Some will say it isn't, but you all know that we have seen many of you talk about your KD, KH, etc. etc. and we all know that if you are caught 1vs1 without this advantage you couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag. But your score says your really good. Not all, but you know who you are.
Perking bombers or ords will lead to many more of the dreaded 190's porking the field and bailing scenarios, we already have the ability for a single p51 to pork the entire field, its what they are doing now with the Radar, 1 fly in takes it out, the noe comes in.
So, IMO and for the record-score is the root of all the complaints this game has, flame on.
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score is the root of all the complaints this game has
No.
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Some will say it isn't, but you all know that we have seen many of you talk about your KD, KH, etc. etc. and we all know that if you are caught 1vs1 without this advantage you couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag.
This from the guy who won't DA because it isn't a fair fight?! Bwaahahahahahaaha
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This from the guy who won't DA because it isn't a fair fight?! Bwaahahahahahaaha
Since you bring it up, You were given the oppurtunity in the MA, you chose not too. Why? Score.
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lolz
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You are correct and I completely agree. Its just that simple for someone to do, but in todays society we promote laziness and the lack of effort.
This is the only part that I agree with.
Todays society promotes the 'not my fault' attitude.
Rather than blame everything on other people or expecting everyone else to do the 'dirty work' get out and do it yourself.
Rook RJO - Once the Bish got organised every field 2 or 3 layers back would be porked. No ord or troops.
Made life a lot easier for the 2-3 hours each Sunday they happened.
Score 'may' play a very small part, but its not the root cause.
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Since you bring it up, You were given the oppurtunity in the MA, you chose not too. Why? Score.
LOL You do not want a fair fight with set rules.. you need an advantage. period end of discussion. That is why you will not da.
LMAO score bwaahahahahahaha
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LOL You do not want a fair fight with set rules.. you need an advantage. period end of discussion. That is why you will not da.
LMAO score bwaahahahahahaha
And you cant do that in the MA? Fair fights can only happen in the DA?
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And you cant do that in the MA? Fair fights can only happen in the DA?
That's why they made the arena
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And you cant do that in the MA? Fair fights can only happen in the DA?
You have already said to me that the DA is not a fair fight and that is why you will not. I'm out so now i'll leave you to spin your timidity. :salute
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You have already said to me that the DA is not a fair fight and that is why you will not. I'm out so now i'll leave you to spin your timidity. :salute
Dont lose the context of that discussion, you simply refused to duel in the MA and used this statement as your out. Just like what you always seem to do is pick and chose your quotes and forget the rest of the context.
So, if your ever in the MA and would like to have a good fight, let me know. That offer still stands.
:salute
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You need salvo 2 to drop FHs, so its only 7.
If a Lanc driver gets to fly to 5 seperate fields untouched the only people to blame are the defenders.
It's the usual I don't want to do it, someone else can, or can't we just get HT to perk buffs out of the game.
Been a problem for years, another is no-one wants to cap CVs so buffs come in un-molested at only 8k and sink it.
When do you put the onus on players to protect their assets?
im glad you brought this up Kev as it points to a major part of the problem when a single player is able to take a formation of Bombers in on a CV the only real defense is to have SEVERAL players fly a CAP role around the CV to have a legitimate chance at stopping the 1 guy controlling 3 bombers from reaching his target with enough Ord to do major damage if not sink the ship. The option to take a Bomber formation is a force multiplier that i really cant understand the justification for having in the game at this point. If a fighter pilot wants a good chance at surviving he is ill advised to go into a fight alone(im referring to a base attack not a 1v1 duel) why is a bomber pilot afforded the luxury of bringing 3 times the offensive as well as defensive force?
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im glad you brought this up Kev as it points to a major part of the problem when a single player is able to take a formation of Bombers in on a CV the only real defense is to have SEVERAL players fly a CAP role around the CV to have a legitimate chance at stopping the 1 guy controlling 3 bombers from reaching his target with enough Ord to do major damage if not sink the ship. The option to take a Bomber formation is a force multiplier that i really cant understand the justification for having in the game at this point. If a fighter pilot wants a good chance at surviving he is ill advised to go into a fight alone(im referring to a base attack not a 1v1 duel) why is a bomber pilot afforded the luxury of bringing 3 times the offensive as well as defensive force?
Ok
So what chance does a lone Lanc 4 x 50cals (rear) have against oh, let say a tiffy 4 x 20mm?
I would guess the formations is to try and even things out.
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Here is the easy answer....I think I have metioned this before.....Jut like you have 3 different size airfields (#of hangers) you could have just like in wwII have different size task forces with 2-3-4 CV's in each task force again (small medium and large fields)...the interesting part would be each CV in the task force could respawn within 15 minutes at the current location of the task force unless the last CV has been sunk.
To balance this game play out Hitech might think or considering adding subs at this point also.
good hunting 999000 <S>
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im glad you brought this up Kev as it points to a major part of the problem when a single player is able to take a formation of Bombers in on a CV the only real defense is to have SEVERAL players fly a CAP role around the CV to have a legitimate chance at stopping the 1 guy controlling 3 bombers from reaching his target
Wrong. It just needs one fighter guy. Bombers attacking CV are quite easy to attack. They can't get very high, most come in 8-10k.. it's very easy for a fighter to climb to 12-15k and then swoop down on the buffs trying to line up on the cv.
And generally spoken, the formations are a way to enable players to fly buffs on their own at all.
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To all that say it is the same to salvo 2 @ 500lbs versus salvo 1 @1,000lbs:
That is only 1/2 true. What you need to consider is a 1,000lb and 2,000lbs, you have a larger blast radius than a 500lbs. I can't tell you how many times i go up in lancs of 2,000lbs loadout and it is easier for me to destroy targets at alt than 500lbs. So don't really agree with that premise with respect to that argument.
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To all that say it is the same to salvo 2 @ 500lbs versus salvo 1 @1,000lbs:
That is only 1/2 true. What you need to consider is a 1,000lb and 2,000lbs, you have a larger blast radius than a 500lbs. I can't tell you how many times i go up in lancs of 2,000lbs loadout and it is easier for me to destroy targets at alt than 500lbs. So don't really agree with that premise with respect to that argument.
But you have to take into account that smaller bombs are more powerful relatively to their weight. A 500lbs has slighty more bang than 0.5x 1000lbs.
Wehn I was new, I was flying much more buffs in my first weeks (like most newbies do), and I quickly discovered that 2x500 were giving me some more leeway when having a slightly off calibration, or bigger spread due to last-moment course corrections.
And of course, on top of that the 500'er loadout has the advantage of being more effective if you want to destroy some smaller targets (like ords) as well. 12x500 is giving you more flexibility than 6x1000.
Edit:
Bomb damage values
bomb size - damage value - efficiency
4000lbs - 3.3 - 78%
2000lbs - 1.7 - 85%
1000lbs - 1.0 - 100%
500lbs - 0.56 - 112%
250 lbs - 0.31 - 124%
100 lbs - 0.15 - 150 %
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yeah 112% sounds a bit more like it for a small structure like a hangar, thinking about it I was assuming a very large structure for 120% (and 141% for a bunker-buster :)) how did you test those?
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yeah 112% sounds a bit more like it for a small structure like a hangar, thinking about it I was assuming a very large structure for 120% (and 141% for a bunker-buster :)) how did you test those?
All hardness is measured in x(1000lbs bomb) units. The 1000lbs bomb is the default. A structure with a hardness of 1 takes exactly one 1000lbs bomb to destroy.
To test bomb values relaitve to the 1000lbs bomb, you can up a bomber and then test the bomb vs a structure like a BH or FH. You are changing the hardness until you find the highest hardness it must have to be still destroyed with one bomb.
The resulting number is the bomb's damage value. Example: a 250 lbs bomb will kill a FH with hardness = 0.31, but not at hardness 0.32 anymore. So the 250lbs bomb is worth 0.31 x 1000lbs bombs.
So a single B-17 with 6x 1000lbs bombs is carrying 6000lbs of "damage value", but then carrying 500lbs bombs it is carrying 12*560 = 6720lbs of "damage value"
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nice , if time consuming :aok did you notice if the splash is full damage to the blast radius or tapers off as you'd expect (ie. did any close misses still destroy at the same hardness as a direct hit?)
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nice , if time consuming :aok
Especially when you test 1800kg or 4000lbs bombs, which are only being carried one at a time :furious :D
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I'll bet :D
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I've been reading this thread and appreciate it's intent.. As a buff enthusiast for about two years now I would say this..
First, "dive bombing" with level bombers, is in my IMHO a cheesy tactic and it would be nice if that went away.. I won't say I've never done it that was a long time ago.. To me, It's the ultimate in lame..
Second, I think formations should have a perk value attached.. (The main reason for this would really be to suppress the ol' bomb and bail "tactic").. Another Gamey aspect that should go away.. Again, just my opinion..
The new players would, of course, be able to up singles without a perk penalty but would have to "earn their wings" so to speak, to have the privilege of getting a formation..
Also, I would argue that medium bombers like the B26 and KI67 can have far more impact on the game than the painfully slow 4 engine jobs, in the right hands..
Just some thoughts from a buff stick.. :salute
I got a Lanc 400mph doing that! :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :rock :eek: :D
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I got a Lanc 400mph doing that! :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :rock :eek: :D
uhm...what?
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I got a Lanc 400mph doing that! :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :rock :eek: :D
Then you are a dweeb.
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LOL You do not want a fair fight with set rules.. you need an advantage. period end of discussion. That is why you will not da.
LMAO score bwaahahahahahaha
Sounds like Draggon.
ack-ack
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Great, another suggestion that will result in another complicated set of rules to add even more "realism" to the game.
Leave the thing alone or it will go the way of Air Warrior, which was tweaked to death
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Great, another suggestion that will result in another complicated set of rules to add even more "realism" to the game.
Leave the thing alone or it will go the way of Air Warrior, which was tweaked to death
great someone thats almost a month late to the sarcasm thread.
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great someone thats almost a month late the sarcasm thread.
gotta love em huh? :lol
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Bombers? Oh those big ugly targets.
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Yes I know it takes away from the fun of the dedicated bomber dudes but you guys should have more than enough perks to keep a good stash of bombers in the hangar for all kinds of flights.
By perking them into the 60 points+ per flight range (starting cost would be 20 points per plane in a formation) that should eliminate some of the whiners on the new radar settings. While I don't agree with the settings the only way for HTC to truly address this is to turn the planes like the Mossie and 110's into bombers and not "attack/fighter bombers" and perk the crap out of them. Plus you actually have to return the plane to the ground to get your points...no more of the dash and die bomber crap.
Yeah its not very well thought you but so be it.
when i die i don't get the perks,i try to land, but if that plane lights up my engine up I'm getting my but out of thayer OK.(i do get points for jumping but only like 1/2 of what i would for landing!) :furious .i don't think that aces high even needs to try it that would stink.and last but not least the mossie and 110 are WW2 fighters, that's the WW2 status and i don't think thay need to change it from the truth. :neener: (but this would be a good idea if it was one)hehehe
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Yes I know it takes away from the fun of the dedicated bomber dudes but you guys should have more than enough perks to keep a good stash of bombers in the hangar for all kinds of flights.
By perking them into the 60 points+ per flight range (starting cost would be 20 points per plane in a formation) that should eliminate some of the whiners on the new radar settings. While I don't agree with the settings the only way for HTC to truly address this is to turn the planes like the Mossie and 110's into bombers and not "attack/fighter bombers" and perk the crap out of them. Plus you actually have to return the plane to the ground to get your points...no more of the dash and die bomber crap.
Yeah its not very well thought you but so be it.
nothing, no matter what they do at htc will eliminate the whiners. those that are going to whine, are ALWAYS going to fins somethign to whine about.
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I fly buff's all the time...and truthfully...I dont care about perk points or any of that junk...I enjoy the challenge of going up and giving it a go esp at a tough target. truth be told most buff guys fly solo....I have upped with 1 or 2 others, but rarely.
Not counting dedicated missions...
I dont know how many times I've flown forever to get to a target and get jumped by fighters cuz I was setting up my IP.
I read Single seat guys crying all the time about how Buff's got it made....well...drones don't shot to straight..and I have no auto gunz like the ships...all the killz i get are right up in the glass with 2 guns.
I agree the best rides should have some sort of limit as to who gets to play with them....say the b-29...(someday... although I think some mods of the Lanc or a Halifax could prove to be just as nasty) it will still have the same limits that all the other buffs have....
Truth be told I like a B-24 most(as long as I can keep the SS guys from my wing roots)
basically.......quityersqueak in and fly......If yer a rook...wing up and lets go blow up some stuff....anybody else....bring it on! I don't care about the k/d ratio...I'm freakin flyin! :aok