Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: uptown on June 27, 2010, 11:33:52 AM
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I was reading Wikipedia on the 38s this morning and seen that the Lightnings could carry 2x500 or 2x250 bombs on the outer hardpoints. Also noticed the the inter hardpoints could carry up to 6x500,6x200 or even 2x2000 LBers.
I wondering why we don't have that capability in the game.
Also, does anyone else besides me think the pilot wounds are a little TOO easy to get in the 38s? :headscratch:
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I am sure guppy will be along soon to tell you that it was a field mod or something :D
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It was a field mod... they could carry massive loads, utilizing sway bards but it was all done in the field.
As for pilot wounds, yea, you tend to get used to that. We have had numerous threads about it before, Murdr posted some nice pics of cockpit armor placement to back up the claims as well.
(I'm not Guppy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)
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I was reading Wikipedia on the 38s this morning
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That your problem uptown Wikipedia
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Show on "inner" and "outer" hardpoint from the factory on a P-38.
wrongway
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That your problem uptown Wikipedia
well us noobs have to start somewhere. besides i'm just looking for basic information for right now. i know who to talk to when i get to the advanced stuff....but that's a ways off. :salute
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The "outer hard points" were almost exclusively used for the rocket trees on the late J and the L models.
The inner hard points were rarely used with massive 2K# bombs, but usually with much less.
The L model is already enough of an ordnance dump truck as it is, there's no need to make it worse with "field modifications".
Yes, the P-38 is the king of pilot wounds for the most part, it's pretty much a pilot wound magnet.
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Yes, the P-38 is the king of pilot wounds for the most part, it's pretty much a pilot wound magnet.
I don't think it is the P-38. I think it is a trait of any fighter without an engine block in front of the pilot, and possibly some bombers too. Certainly I notice it in the Mossie.
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I don't think it is the P-38. I think it is a trait of any fighter without an engine block in front of the pilot, and possibly some bombers too. Certainly I notice it in the Mossie.
The vast majority of my pilot wounds comes when I'm looking over my shoulder behind me in the P-38.
ack-ack
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I can only count the times I've been in a Mossie on one hand, so I can't speak to that. But I can tell you in my experience flying a 110, it's very rare for me to get a pilot would. Yet in a 38 it seems I get a pilot wound every other sortie. :frown:
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The vast majority of my pilot wounds comes when I'm looking over my shoulder behind me in the P-38.
ack-ack
I always aim for the ego when I fight some guys :D
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Pilot wounds in the 38 seem pretty common to me. But I guess you get used to it.
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Pilot wounds in the 38 seem pretty common to me. But I guess you get used to it.
Can;t be any more common than the 109's oil/coolant/fuel leaks, can it?
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Can;t be any more common than the 109's oil/coolant/fuel leaks, can it?
There was a time when we fooled around with loosely keeping track of it. Some were seeing pilot wounds as often as 1 of every 2 or 3 instances of damage. I recorded a few flights where the film showed it to be nearly impossible for a pilot wound to happen, and when I landed, a thorough scan of every inch of the cockpit showed not a single hole or crack visible anywhere, yet I had a pilot wound.
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The inner hard points were rarely used with massive 2K# bombs, but usually with much less.
The L model is already enough of an ordnance dump truck as it is, there's no need to make it worse with "field modifications".
I think it would be fun to get someone in a "droop snoot" and a flight of Lightnings with 2k bombs for a raid. Drop a heavy duty load on a field for town, then jump into the furball.
Maybe set it so that the 2000 pounders are only available as part of a mission when there is at least one droop snoot included.
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Personally, I would like to see ordnance restricted to historical ordnance packages and perked ordnance packages for the more rare ordnance load outs. Not just for the P-38 but for all planes in this game.
ack-ack
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I was reading Wikipedia on the 38s this morning and seen that the Lightnings could carry 2x500 or 2x250 bombs on the outer hardpoints. Also noticed the the inter hardpoints could carry up to 6x500,6x200 or even 2x2000 LBers.
I wondering why we don't have that capability in the game.
Also, does anyone else besides me think the pilot wounds are a little TOO easy to get in the 38s? :headscratch:
You'll need to dig and cite the sources for the wikipedia's sources... which most here believe to be in-field modification performed by inovative crew chiefs. If a P-38 could do it out-of-the-factory then you might have something if you can cite what model P-38, what units they went to and weather those units saw any combat with their P-38s in any theatre during WWII (pre-VJ-day).
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The vast majority of my pilot wounds comes when I'm looking over my shoulder behind me in the P-38.
ack-ack
You should talk to your crew chief and trade in that bubble canopy for a hooded one like the corsairs have then. :devil
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It was a field mod... they could carry massive loads, utilizing sway bards but it was all done in the field.
It was a field mod and it wasn't a field mod. The P-38 did have the ability to carry the rare 2k and even a 3k bomb, that came out of the factory. However, I believe the original sway bars that were needed for the larger bombs wasn't sufficient enough so someone fashioned one out of wood. Think the problem with the original sway bar was made out of metal and could damage the P-38, whereas the one made out of wood wouldn't.
ack-ack
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The inner hard points were made to accept the 2K# bombs, however, several groups found it very desirable to make modifications to prevent the bombs from swaying and wobbling. There are a fair number of accounts of missions with 2K# bombs, but not a great number.
I cannot remember seeing any documented instances of 3K# bombs on the inner hard points, nor any of bombs, especially not 250# or 500# bombs, carried on the outer hard points where the rocket trees attach to a late J or an L. I'm not saying it never happened, I'm just saying I cannot remember seeing anything on it, and it's the sort of thing you'd remember.
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500 pounders were standard until about October 44 when 1000 pounders became the norm. They did carry 2000 pounders on a few occasions but found that the bang wasn't much more effective then the 1000 pounders and the 1000 pounders didn't need the wooden sway braces etc.
Some MTO 38 groups field modded their 38s with bomb shackles on each side of the normal DT/Bomb rack. This allowed them to carry up to 6 500 pounders total. The MTO is the only place I've seen photos of this done. It wasn't a factory bit though.
No bombs carried outside the engines, just the rocket trees on the 38L as already mentioned. That too wasn't used often.
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Personally, I would like to see ordnance restricted to historical ordnance packages and perked ordnance packages for the more rare ordnance load outs. Not just for the P-38 but for all planes in this game.
ack-ack
Personally, I agree.
:aok
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I was reading Wikipedia on the 38s this morning and seen that the Lightnings could carry 2x500 or 2x250 bombs on the outer hardpoints. Also noticed the the inter hardpoints could carry up to 6x500,6x200 or even 2x2000 LBers.
I wondering why we don't have that capability in the game.
Also, does anyone else besides me think the pilot wounds are a little TOO easy to get in the 38s? :headscratch:
I've bought this up before, apprently it didn't ever happen at all according to the sources I was shown.....
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Yeah that's a watermelon load of weight on the wings. I was really just looking for anything on speed, climb rate, turning ability in the different models...that kind of thing. Then came across the weapons specs. I had to get on here and find out what that was all about. I knew someone around here would know the story behind it.
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I think it would be fun to get someone in a "droop snoot" and a flight of Lightnings with 2k bombs for a raid. Drop a heavy duty load on a field for town, then jump into the furball.
the reason why it was called the droop snoot is because they took out the 4x.50's and the 20mm to put in a bombardier's position, so no furball for you!
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The PW problem in the P-38 is easily over come with proper preperation. Before every sortie apply a loose fitting tourniquet to each of your limbs and neck. Once in flight you will be able to stop the bleeding from the inevitable pilot wound by twisting the sticks on all of your pre-postistioned tourniquets as soon as the blood appears on the canopy. Problem Solved.
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LOL @ ForkTail
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Somewhere I have a stat sheet on the Lightning that mentions 4 three tube rocket units mounted where the hard points are. When I find it I will post it.
It would make, IMO, make a wonderful rocket package combied with the 10 rocket christmas trees on the outer wings. Think about it; 22 5"HVARS on a Lightning.
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The rocket tubes were used on the J models prior to the rocket trees. Not used together at any point that I've ever seen in any 38 operational history anywhere.
I'm guessing it was one of those what if bits
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Speaking of rocket tubes, are they modeled to produce more drag then the xmas tree racks that are on the 38L and later 47s like the D40 and N?
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Speaking of rocket tubes, are they modeled to produce more drag then the xmas tree racks that are on the 38L and later 47s like the D40 and N?
Yes, the 'bazooka' tubes do add weight/drag to the P38J airframe.
The Christmas tree racks on the P38L do not give any weight penalty what so ever after all the rockets have been fired. I haven't been able to determine if there is any drag related to them, but it isn't noticeable if there is.
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Yes, the 'bazooka' tubes do add weight/drag to the P38J airframe.
The Christmas tree racks on the P38L do not give any weight penalty what so ever after all the rockets have been fired. I haven't been able to determine if there is any drag related to them, but it isn't noticeable if there is.
wow,an christmas tree rack that holds 750 lb of rockets,weighs nothing and has no drag...... no wonder we won the war :D
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Would be cool to have 14 rockets.
(http://airwar.hihome.com/gwp/p-38/38rockets.jpg)
ack-ack
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oooo the deacking I could do with that badboy! Provided I didn't get pilot wounded after I got the first one off. :uhoh
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Would be cool to have 14 rockets.
(http://airwar.hihome.com/gwp/p-38/38rockets.jpg)
ack-ack
LOL WTG AKAK :)
Gonna send em scrambling now!
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What? You mean the 38 couldn't carry....doh! Akak !!!!!!!!!! :furious
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What? You mean the 38 couldn't carry....doh! Akak !!!!!!!!!! :furious
I think there were a few of the first production run L's that had zero length rocket launchers before the Ls were produced with the Christmas tree launcher. Not sure of the number but I don't think it was very many and don't know if any saw any service outside of the US. The picture is supposed to be one of these first production Ls showing the zero length launchers.
ack-ack
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Purely a stateside test bird. None went into combat like that.
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Also, does anyone else besides me think the pilot wounds are a little TOO easy to get in the 38s? :headscratch:
As for pilot wounds, yea, you tend to get used to that. We have had numerous threads about it before, Murdr posted some nice pics of cockpit armor placement to back up the claims as well.
I blame all those SAPP tards because they went around modifying all the P38s. They put in the blenders, flat screen tvs, and mini fridges but had to take out some pilot armor to save weight. Its all their fault!
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I was reading Wikipedia on the 38s this morning and seen that the Lightnings could carry 2x500 or 2x250 bombs on the outer hardpoints. Also noticed the the inter hardpoints could carry up to 6x500,6x200 or even 2x2000 LBers.
I wondering why we don't have that capability in the game.
Also, does anyone else besides me think the pilot wounds are a little TOO easy to get in the 38s? :headscratch:
honestly, i've been having more engines shout out from under me than anything since i've come back.
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Would be cool to have 14 rockets.
ack-ack
(http://airwar.hihome.com/gwp/p-38/38rockets.jpg)
Every time I go on leave, one of you bucket heads has to get into my section in the back of the hangar and mess with my stuff. :furious
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oooo the deacking I could do with that badboy! Provided I didn't get pilot wounded after I got the first one off. :uhoh
or get the radiator damaged!! seems the base ack always hits radiator first and first ping