Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Delirium on June 28, 2010, 08:28:48 AM
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I just got my license to ride but I'm not sure where to go from here, in regards to equipment and purchasing a motorcycle.
Does anyone have any tips (other than, 'don't drop it)?
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I ride a customized 2007 Honda VTX 1300R. For equipment, I use a helmet (duh :P), leather jacket, Tanker boots, gloves and sometimes raingear (I try to avoid riding in the rain when possible).
Depending on your style of motorcycle and riding, you should have a similar list for your equipment.
Congrats on getting licensed :aok...now just watch out for stupid cage (cars/trucks) drivers that don't pay attention or are on the phone/texting. :furious
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2976/vtx1300r2.jpg)
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5728/vtx1300r.jpg)
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What kind of braking system does that one have?
I was looking at the NT700V by Honda, do you have any experience with those?
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I think this is the first year for the NT700 so you wont find many people with much experience with it. As far as bike selection goes I would start with a used bike, something 3 or 4 years old that already has a couple scratches on it and you wont have to cry over it if your belt buckle slides across the tank. If you are taller something like a KLR 650 or V-strom 650 would be a good first bike, the V-strom being closer to a sport touring bike like the NT. If you are shorter (in-seem less than 34") a small displacement cruiser like a Shadow or a standard bike such as an SV 650 are a good way to go. About breaking systems, if you are looking for ABS newer V-strom's will have an ABS version if you look around, if you are looking for something like a linked breaking system I dont know where to point you.
As far as gear it is pretty simple: Boots, gloves, jacket, jeans, and a helmet. I recommend a full face helmet to help avoid the painful crushed face that can result from even slow speed wrecks as well as bug/stone-off-a-passing-dump-truck strikes. At highway speeds something like a bee or beetle can practically take you off the back of the bike if it hits you right between the eyes with an open helmet.
Bikes like the KLR and V-Strom have huge communities of riders that swear by the bikes so if you want something tested and proved they are good bikes.
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My first recommendation: ATGATT
"All The Gear All The Time".
Never ride without your protective gear! Eye protection, Helmet, Jacket, Gloves, Long Pants, Boots. No matter the condition/temperature outside, always have your gear on!
Other than that, there are many, many great motorcycles out there. I personally ride a 2008 Kawasaki Concours 14 ABS. 2008 Kawasaki Concours 14 ABS (http://www.kawasaki.com/PRODUCTS/product-specifications.aspx?id=220).
Each person has there own individual tastes on motorcycles. Call around to some dealerships and see if they have "demo" bikes. Ask to take a demo ride to get a "feel" for what type of bike you find yourself liking the most.
T
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I think this is the first year for the NT700 so you wont find many people with much experience with it. As far as bike selection goes I would start with a used bike, something 3 or 4 years old that already has a couple scratches on it and you wont have to cry over it if your belt buckle slides across the tank.
The reason the NT700 sounded attractive was it is more laid back with great gas mileage, quiet engine, and a comfortable ride. (edit: it also has integrated saddle bags)
Yea, I sound like an old man but is there anything similar I could buy used?
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Del, as you are new to this, wear EVERY frikkin safety device made---stats are quite telling, 90% of fatal accidents occur in 1st 2 years of riding. You have to develop a 6th sense to discern cager's intentions as they blindly pull out in front of you, and until then, all the leather they make, and the most expensive, is in order. Me? I dragged the Pan down to FLA this week, just t-shirt and no helmet! (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/bj229r/DSCF0004_1.jpg)
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Del, as you are new to this, wear EVERY frikkin safety device made---stats are quite telling, 90% of fatal accidents occur in 1st 2 years of riding. You have to develop a 6th sense to discern cager's intentions as they blindly pull out in front of you, and until then, all the leather they make, and the most expensive, is in order. Me? I dragged the Pan down to FLA this week, just t-shirt and no helmet! (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/bj229r/DSCF0004_1.jpg)
Yeah cause it's not like I see people on bikes do some of the most stupid things on the interstate. I know that some people don't look for or notice motorcycles but I have seen far more people on bikes think that they can ride however they want.
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I agree with you there, to some degree but I'm not sure if they are truly more reckless or we just notice the motorcycle more.
A week before I started my course, a pack of motorcycles were weaving in and out of traffic a good 30 mph faster than the rest of traffic. I literally had to swerve to the right and brake to avoid one of them that timed his swerve in front of me too early.
About 2 minutes later, I'm getting off my exit and I see one of the bikes on its side, the tank definitely ruptured with gas all over the exit ramp. The poor guy was riding in a t shirt, shorts and was bleeding like a 13 year old girl.
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What kind of braking system does that one have?
I was looking at the NT700V by Honda, do you have any experience with those?
Disk brakes front and rear. Plenty of power since upgrading the intake to a Kuryakyn Hypercharger and HardKrome 2into1 sideburners exhaust. Loud and fast.
I havent seen the NT700V so no experience with it.
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My best advice is to ride what you like, and what fits you and your abilities / riding style. I ride a Harley Low Rider, but there are plenty of good quality bikes in the other brands.
And +1 on safety gear, especially for a new rider. I cringe every time I see the kids around here on a motorcycle with nothing but a pair of shorts and beach clogs.
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(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/texashogleg/80133952501b6274.jpg)
Excellent starter bike for the inexperienced rider. :aok
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What kind of bike is that?
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get one of these Del :aok Its what I want
(http://www.triumph.co.uk/images/Daytona675_2010_gallery4L_1024x768.jpg)
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I was going to say that Terror and tf15pin have hit the nails on the head. Myself, I went and bought a brand new ZX-14 like an idiot and didn't carry full coverage since I didn't have to. Dumped it after hitting some fine sandy stuff in the road going in a curve and it did a lotttttt of damage that I have had to take care of out of my own pocket. Now I wish I would have bought one that was a few years old since it wouldn't have hurt me monetarily when I laid it down but you live and learn. Go to the dealerships, find out what they have and what they'll let you demo. Sit on every bike that you might think you are interested in and maybe some that you think you are not. You might be surprised to find that one bike that you weren't too keen on may be the best fit for you, it's all personal preference like Terror said. When you do find what you want, new or used, shop, shop, shop around. Play other dealers against each other, you'll be surprised what you can get them to do some of the time, especially with a new bike. I did some checking online when I bought mine and had the local dealership drop the price down by around $2,500 when all was said and done. If you find someone trying to sell theirs, see if they'll let you take it down the street, some might, some might not especially if they don't really know you.
As far as gear goes, like everyone has said, wear all of it all of the time. The day I went down was a hot July day and I wasn't wearing my jacket. Luckily I went down in grass and rolled more than I slid so I had just a little bit of burn on my left elbow and side from the grass rubbing me. Had I had my jacket on I might not have been burned so bad or I might have but I learned my lesson, I'd wear it all the time. Find you a jacket with a removable liner, even though your in the northeast, it will still get a little steamy in the middle of summer. Shop around for all of your equipment, most online stores will be cheaper than a dealership but the dealerships might come down just the same as I mentioned about the price of the bike. The only piece of advice I will give and some might not like it that have them is, do not, do not, do not buy a full face helmet with the flip up chin piece. They are nice and handy if you are going slower and want to get some air so you flip up the chin, but like the guy at the dealership showed me when I bought my helmet, the piece is held on by plastic, guess what the first part that will go flying off the helmet is if heaven forbid you smack the road. Plus he was putting his hands on the sides and showing me how much they flex compared to a regular full face helmet, in the end, I like my pretty face too much to get one of those flip up style helmets, but it's your call they might be better built by now.
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(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/texashogleg/80133952501b6274.jpg)
Excellent starter bike for the inexperienced rider. :aok
You know a lot of people told me that I had too much bike with the ZX-14 to start off with and would be the same with a 'busa but in the words of my old supervisor, "it'll only do what you tell it to do." Yes the temptation of having 195 hp on a sport bike is there and it will fly but it's like having a loaded gun in your hands, if you don't pull the trigger it won't go bang. My wreck had nothing to do with the size of the bike like I have constantly heard too, it doesn't matter whether you're riding a 1400 or 250, if you hit gravel or sand you stand a 99.9% chance of losing it.
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If it has more than something like 70 hp or weighs more than 500 lb it probably is not a good idea for a first bike.
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Proper gear all the time has been mentioned, any time you think about exposing anything rub it on a cheese grater just to remind yourself not too.
Over here we call it riding "defensively" blind and eratic "cagers" already been mentioned but its true treat everyone like they are gonna try and kill you alot of bike riders in cars, and some car drivers will look for bikes but alot dont even see trucks.
Stay alert dont be tempted to ride tired (or otherwise impaired) locking the front cos of somthing daft happening you were not ready for in a car is no problem, on a bike it could be different.
Don't buy a Harley unless you have a field to plough or somthing. :P
The police WILL pick on you because you are a statistic and speeding is easy money, they will tell you stuff like motorcyclists are 3% of the traffic and 45% of the casualties, picking on speed is easy rather than blind drivers in the wrong lane on the phone who dont know what indicators are. But have respect for them too they will probably be the first one there trying to help you if the worst happens.
Sounds all doom and gloom, its not, just keep yourself safe, Been riding years, its great fun and good luck to you
Ideas for a first full power bike? hmm Bandit 600 maybe, cheap to get hold of, easy to ride but still enough go for a grin.
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Dual Sport Bikes are great entry level bikes for bouncing around town...cheap to buy, cheap to work on...
If you go Dual Sport, the Kawasaki KLR 650 is a great choice as well as the Suzuki DR 650.
The Kawasaki is more street oriented and the Suzuki is more dirt oriented...either way you can't go wrong...
I have owned both and loved them...
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I just got my license to ride but I'm not sure where to go from here, in regards to equipment and purchasing a motorcycle.
Does anyone have any tips (other than, 'don't drop it)?
OK.. being that you are new I highly recommend taking a motorcycle riding safety course (if you haven't already). It will save you on insurance costs, and will teach you invaluable information about how to ride safely. As for gear.. I don't know guys... flame all you want, but while I DO take some common sense precautions (Boots, Jeans, Helmet, Eyegear) I really do think that some people go overboard. For instance... a full body biking suit on a 100 degree day in my opinion is more dangerous than it is safe. It's hard to stay focused when you're sweating your BA...um... BACK off and while I know they've come a long way with that stuff over the years, there's no way you can tell me one of those suits is cooler than not wearing one at all.
Same thing with helmets... I use a half-helmet (Scorpion EXO-100 (http://shopping.scorpionusa.com/C55D9C025BA44D11A3713BF0D546303C.asp?cat_id=FBF05AC4DB8843C1B0FF76893F5540D5&pcs_key=F4C6450651964872B858D79013AFA8B5&retpage=%2FF4BD78EED51D4762989F1184B1165B96.asp&nm=Solid+100&spath=Home+%3E+Equipment+%3E+Street+Helmets&path=Home+%3E+Equipment+%3E+Street+Helmets&sc_id=A208DD74A36343D2AF8D4A8D074D5D36)) that has a fold-down front visor... It's pretty nice, solid, cool, and light, and it keeps bugs off of my face. I've tried full face helmets in the past and I just can't do it. I lose my sense of positioning and distance, and it really takes away a lot of my SA on a bike. I feel this is much more dangerous than the few benefits having a full helmet would give.
I also believe in riding warm when it's cool/cold out, and taking the necessary precautions for rain... but come on.. overkill is overkill. Personally, I believe that if most people spent the amount of money they spend on protective gear on defensive riding training, then there would be 90% fewer accidents. Yes it's my opinion... but still a viable one. Someone who has poor riding skills is at much more risk with all of this gear, then someone with good skills without.
A few tips for a new rider:
1> Start with something small and expendable. You can find a 250-400cc 'regular' bike to ride used for under $2000 (sometimes much cheaper than that). Ride this for at least one year to get the necessary experience, before moving on to faster/bigger/heavier. Also, if you drop it, it's not the end of the world. The LAST thing you want to do is spend $10-15k on a nice fast bike only to drop it two weeks in because it's more than you can handle.
2> RIDE RESPONSIBLY! Judge cautiously, and err on the side of safety. Basically, if something doesn't look right THEN ASSUME IT'S WRONG. Also there's no need to try wheelies/burn outs/drag racing/etc just yet.. and even when you DO have to appropriate experience, you do so under CONTROLLED CIRCUMSTANCES... i.e. race track. Plan for the worst, but hope for the best.
3> Develop RADAR! Seriously... to bike safely, you have to know everything that is going on around you at all times. Do you see a car going a bit faster than it should in the next lane? Maybe it's trying to pass the car behind you and then come over in front of it WHERE YOU ARE and he's so focused on that car that he doesn't see you!? You have to keep an eye out for these sorts of things. I have to avoid incidents on my bike MANY TIMES MORE OFTEN than when driving a car. Why? Because PEOPLE DON'T SEE YOU. After I upgraded from an old Honda to a loud Harley, these incidents decreased dramatically because people hear me now and know I'm near... but it's still no reason to let my guard down.
4> RIGHT OF WAY DOES NOT EXIST ON A BIKE! Never ASSUME anything, ESPECIALLY that since you have the right of way no one is going to get in your way. Also, never assume that anyone sees you... EVEN IF THEY MAKE EYE CONTACT. Just like crossing a street on foot with a WALK sign.. you still look both ways before crossing. Never go through a green light without assessing the situation. Never go through a green arrow without judging the oncoming traffic. Never assume someone is going to turn because their turn signal is on, and never assuming they will go straight because it isn't.
5> Practice emergency maneuvers during controlled conditions so you know how your bike is going to handle. Try panic stopping, and avoidance techniques in an empty parking lot. Pretend cracks in the road are pieces of debris, and swerve around them when no one else is around. Heck, I still do this quite often... I get a kick out of it! They'll also teach you all this during a riding course.
When I was a kid, my dad did me the biggest favor by conditioning me to develop this kind of radar sense. Even before I was driving he'd point things out like... "That car is going to cut off that other car"... or "That car is going to cut over at the last second" and you know what? He was right 90% of the time! And when he was wrong, he was prepared for these things to happen before they happened. When I got my driving permit and would drive around with my dad, he'd bombard me with questions... "What color is that car to your 5 o'clock" or "What do you think that car 6 cars ahead is going to do?"... even sometimes asking me questions right down to how many people are in the car, and describing the driver. I'm sure part of this stemmed from his 'offensive' driving techniques learned back when he was a cop... but the vast majority of this teaching I still obey today.
(http://lca.ympsa.com/puppy/bike1.jpg)
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OK.. being that you are new I highly recommend taking a motorcycle riding safety course (if you haven't already).
I already did take the MSF course... I plan on taking the intermediate and later the 'expert' courses, if for no other reason than to save money on insurance.
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Only thing I can't stress to you enough Del, if you even think you're going somewhere and having a beer or anything of your pleasure at your destination, just go ahead and take the cage for that trip. Bike riding is a lot of fun but it takes 110% concentration.
Also be careful in the country/mountains of any turns in the road with a gravel/dirt driveway/access entering the road, my brother has a nice scar on his right knee now from a couple summers ago because he took a slow spill after hitting some loose gravel ontop of the asphalt in a medium turn (and he's the slowest and most cautious biker I know, takes it slow n' steady and avoids highways for safety and to enjoy the scenery). A logging trucker coming off the access saw him down and gave him a lift back home 6 miles out of his way, we called a nurse who is a family friend and neighbor to checked it out and help pick the asphalt out of his knee (saving us a trip into town to see a doc or clinic), and I went out to retrieve the bike where it lay while he finished cleaning himself up.
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Stay off the crotch rockets...Get a Nice cruiser, enjoy and remember, its not if you lay it down its When you will lay it down.
I started out with a 84' Yamaha Virago, then Bought a Honda Magna 87', then went with a Gold wing...
KAM
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BMWGS has a nice rig, he does alot of traveling on it though, I mean alot.
Got any pics BMW?
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Go with a Hayabusa Del. Nice an comfy but its got a hell of a kick if you want it. :aok
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Over here we can get Japanese "grey" imports relatvely cheap like the honda CB, CBR and VFR 400, the rest of the big four have candidates too. These are good for a first bike for a mature rider and a reasonably disposable with generally low mileage. I bought an imported CB 400 with 10k on it for $2200 Aus dollars a few years ago, put 30k on it in two years riding to work and back then sold it for $1700. I like these bikes because you dont have to treat them with kid gloves and if it falls over in the garage etc. it doesn't matter too much. Worth a look before you spend the big bucks.
$100 helmet for a $100 head
ATGATT as has been mentioned
Riding every day for 26 years and only a broken rib and scarred elbow to show for it.
Situational awareness is king.
This is a great little story about motorcycle hazards
http://www.vtwinmama.com/demonic_squirrel_riding_story.htm
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Nice panhead, BJ. Me, I've been riding bikes since I was sixteen, tooooooooo many years ago now. My first was a 200cc Triumph Tigercub. My last Harley (a custom shovelhead) was disappeared by a low-life thieving skank who lived (barely) to regret it. These days I ride a Yamaha XVS650: nice li'l bike, half the price of a Harley, and shaft-drive to boot.
Whatever the make, enjoy yourself and ride free.
:cool:
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I already did take the MSF course... I plan on taking the intermediate and later the 'expert' courses, if for no other reason than to save money on insurance.
This is pretty smart,the more professional training you can get the better,maybe after a few years you might want some track time with a bike school,this is not only alot of fun but you learn an incredible amount of imformation that you can apply to street and trail riding.
As for Bike,well get something comfortable,both in riding style and weight remembering what you plan to use it for.
You can always get a bigger/better bike but dont start off in something to over the top. Oh and next time we talk ask about the use of marbles....... I wont say more in public...... :devil
:salute
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I agree that getting training is a good idea.
Now what kind of driving do you intend to do? Are you going to take long trips? Commuting? Short town rides / errands? Dirt bikeing or a combination of dirt and pavement?
If you are just going to do in town riding a smaller bike like a 450 to 750 is plenty. A 750 will also do for highway trips as well.
I would recommend you get one of the Japanese bikes. They are about the most bike for the buck anywhere. Forget a BMW unless you have deep pockets for maintenance. I've had a beemer since 76 and I'm on my last one now. I'll probably go for a Gold Wing next as it is far far cheaper to maintain it than the BMW (R1150RT) i have now. There is also a shortage of shops in the US for beemers just like moto guzi's. You can find a Japanese bike shop or a harley shop just about anywhere.
A harley will also be a very pricey ride for you and likely to be like a beemer, expensive to maintain and insure.
The advice about getting protective gear is also a good one. Get some and wear it all the time. You do not have to wear the same gear all year round. A nice armored mesh jacket like a Joe Rocket for summer and then a regular armored jacket and pants for cooler weather. I've ridden in extreme heat (118+ degrees) and down below freezing. Gear helps in comfort and in the crash.
Don't spend a lot of money on your first bike. It's not likely to be the one you really want to keep a long time once you get used to riding. Learn about riding and gain experience then go larger later.
One assumption you can make every time you ride is that you are invisible and they ARE out to get you. Keep your head on a swivel and look around all the time. You should wear the collar out on your jacket first from turning your head before any other part.
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Forgot to mention... Del, you probably have more restraint than I do but this needs to be said. NEVER overclutch while shifting through gears in a wheelie (no matter how hot the girl in the little red convertable is). For some odd reason you tend to go over backwards and end up ragdolling down the highway (and ruining your chances with said convertable chick).
Seriously though. Restraint is key when on a higher powered bike. Make sure that your helmet is Snell and DOT approved, tuck your laces INSIDE your boots (had a chain grab my lace once, it took a light pole to stop me. Very painful.). Keep your head on a swivel and trust NO ONE to drive correctly. Keep your eyes open for dirt, rocks, grease, oil, SAND, water, squirrels, dogs, cats, people, alligators, chickens, avocados, dancing banannas, tornados, bees, and.... Eh, just keep your eyes open. Anything that's not supposed to be in the road can cause immense pain and property damage.
I've been riding for 15 years, and I hope you can avoid some of the mistakes I've made.
Crash 1- Heading to the DOT for my motorcycle license (ironic huh). Hit sand at the end of my street. Crunch.
Crash 2- Perkins parking lot. Car turned in front of me, had to lay it down to avoid being smooshed.
Crash 3- Gas station. Didn't see the oil on the pavement. Crunch.
Crash 4- Riding a wheelie when my boot lace got snagged in the chain. Pulled my leg into the rear wheel and flipped over and over down the road. Light pole stopped my forward momentum abruptly.
Crash 5- Drag racing a cop on his bike, overclutched the start and wheelied over backwards. Crunch.
Crash 6- Meh, you get the point. There's 4 other crashes in the books though.
Be very careful and implement all the safety measures you can. My mororcycle history is a tad extreme but it can happen to anyone, anytime. Good luck, and enjoy your new hobby! :D
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Stay off the crotch rockets...Get a Nice cruiser, enjoy and remember, its not if you lay it down its When you will lay it down.
I started out with a 84' Yamaha Virago, then Bought a Honda Magna 87', then went with a Gold wing...
KAM
I'm slowly deciding on taking the course myself. The words of a former co-worker still linger. "Start with something like a Honda Magna, if it drops, no biggie. But you will have a better understanding of maintenance and it won't empty your pocket."
I'd get a Honda Magna to start, if and when I myself, pull the trigger.
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I've got a joe rocket armored jacket and a snell/dot approved helmet that I'm letting go of for a really good price if your interested. The Jacket is black with reflective stripes and removable pads (size L). the helmet is unscratched and is a grey and black "fighter pilot" style KBC with razor wire and fake bullet holes and a mirrored visor (size M). I sold my last bike and am willing to send them to a good home.
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Part of me really wants to go with a Honda NT700v; I'm just concerned if it may be too much for me for a first bike.
I was wondering what the rest of you guys think.
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Part of me really wants to go with a Honda NT700v; I'm just concerned if it may be too much for me for a first bike.
I was wondering what the rest of you guys think.
I think a sensible person should have little trouble with it just get used to its weight. Not really a fan of dual purpose bikes or bikes derived from such as they are a compromise between two different disciplines. It should be easy enough for you to ride, get your low speed manouverability down and the rest should fall in place.
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I just got my license to ride but I'm not sure where to go from here, in regards to equipment and purchasing a motorcycle.
Does anyone have any tips (other than, 'don't drop it)?
i've not gone through the entire thread here. i'm sure you;ve already been told to wear helmet, and protective gear.
the best thing i can think of.......if it's powered by any sort of internal combustion engine, and occupies the road, assume that they are out to get you. be paranoid.
pay VERY close attention to other drivers. they often see you, but don't care.
ride offset in the lane. couple of reasons. 1)now, you're visible in 2 mirrors. 2)you don't want to be in the center of the lane, as that is where leaking fluids from cars accumulate.
be careful, and have fun!!
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You know a lot of people told me that I had too much bike with the ZX-14 to start off with and would be the same with a 'busa but in the words of my old supervisor, "it'll only do what you tell it to do." Yes the temptation of having 195 hp on a sport bike is there and it will fly but it's like having a loaded gun in your hands, if you don't pull the trigger it won't go bang. My wreck had nothing to do with the size of the bike like I have constantly heard too, it doesn't matter whether you're riding a 1400 or 250, if you hit gravel or sand you stand a 99.9% chance of losing it.
Garbage. If you started out on a ZX-14 you are an absolute idiot of the worst kind. The kind who not only willingly endangers himself but others around him for absolutely no apparent reason. Even starting out on a 600cc sport bike with no experience is pretty stupid, a ZX-14 is absolutely insane.
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Part of me really wants to go with a Honda NT700v; I'm just concerned if it may be too much for me for a first bike.
I was wondering what the rest of you guys think.
Honestly, and this is more of what I personaly would do if I were in your shoes, get a bike you can learn to ride in and not worry about banging up a little if you think there might be a little learning hump to get over. Choose a good beginers bike in that not only would it be good for you but whoever you might try to sell it to when you're done with it. In 6-12 months down the road, trade or sell that in for a slightly used NT700v or whatever you want to move up to at the time. After a year or two with that one and you confidently consider yourself a road warrior, then go all the way and get a brand-spanking-new bike to your order. I had a discussion with a friend recently, he just picked up his second bike ever (minimal previous use, but used). The first bike definetley had better days, and honestly at first it took him a while to break into using his bike ot go to work more than his car. So now he's onto his second bike, he knows what he wants to dump money into it and is using it likely as a bike he will never get rid of and eventualy work on to become his toying around the track bike when he eventualy buys either a new car or a new bike.
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Garbage. If you started out on a ZX-14 you are an absolute idiot of the worst kind. The kind who not only willingly endangers himself but others around him for absolutely no apparent reason. Even starting out on a 600cc sport bike with no experience is pretty stupid, a ZX-14 is absolutely insane.
Couldn't agree more...
Unless you grew up riding/racing dirt bikes...did some AMA stuff etc to 500 cc with 2-strokes
So many new riders make the huge mistake of biting off more than they can chew....
Grab a super modest dual sport and be happy for the first year....it will only cost you a couple grand...and not your life slapping on a rice-rocket...
Patience is a virtue...
Besides...you can MOTARD your dual sport with grippy street tires and get a feel for the 'drift' when you explore the edges of its performance envelope...
Oneway
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A ZX-14/Hayabusa is a bad decision... If you're stupid. They're very controllable, hold better resale value, and are good bikes all around. It's not like you're strapping a missile to your arse. ANY bike can kill ya. May as well get one that you like, and ride within your capabilities.
EDIT: Didn't think of this one till now. Yamaha V-max. Cruiser style with a BUNCH of torque.
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Just get this...The last bike you'll ever need or ride...I drag race one in 1987...WOW what a bike..Water cooled Shaft drive.
http://www.superstreetbike.com/scenes/0911_sbkp_200_hp_2010_star_vmax/index.html
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/2010VMAX41248805545.jpg)
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WAY cool on the new V-max.
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What kind of riding will you be doing Del? I have a 1000RR Honda. I just love it. If I were in your position i would Rent a few differant types of bikes and see what you like the best. Its a small investment to find out what you like.
<S>
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I ride a Kawasaki Vulcan 900LT. It is the first bike I've owned, but I've been riding for over 18 years now.
Do yourself a big favor and check out the 900 series. For a first bike, it offers everything you need and more. My wife and I ride the 900 2-up quite a bit, and we have no complaints. However, I will be buying a Triumph Thunderbird next year "just because". :D
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WAY cool on the new V-max.
MT-01 is the new way cool Yamaha
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Yamaha_MT-01_Custom.jpg)
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Oh wow, no kidding there. 6th gear stand up wheelie anyone?
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..............
Crash 1- Heading to the DOT for my motorcycle license (ironic huh). Hit sand at the end of my street. Crunch.
Crash 2- Perkins parking lot. Car turned in front of me, had to lay it down to avoid being smooshed.
Crash 3- Gas station. Didn't see the oil on the pavement. Crunch.
Crash 4- Riding a wheelie when my boot lace got snagged in the chain. Pulled my leg into the rear wheel and flipped over and over down the road. Light pole stopped my forward momentum abruptly.
Crash 5- Drag racing a cop on his bike, overclutched the start and wheelied over backwards. Crunch.
Crash 6- Meh, you get the point. There's 4 other crashes in the books though.
Be very careful and implement all the safety measures you can. My mororcycle history is a tad extreme but it can happen to anyone, anytime. Good luck, and enjoy your new hobby! :D
Lol, not most of that stuff (Oh yah, if Dell gets a Harley, he will NEVER have to worry about getting his shoelace caught in something while doing a wheelie ;))
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From the specs and description the NT700 should not be too much for a beginner. It has features like ABS, linked breaking, and shaft drive so it is simple to operate almost to the point of being a scooter. It is a V-twin so it should have a smooth wide power band that makes it beginner friendly. If you are going to buy it I would definitely get the abs version due to the linked breaking. If I do not have specific control over how much force is being put on the front breaks I definitely do not want them to be locking up, front wheel skids are a tough thing to recover from.
I still say buying a cheap piece of junk to ride around on for the rest of summer would be a great idea. If for nothing else but to build confidence. If the beginners safety training course there is anything like the one here you were riding something like a GZ250, honda rebel, or 200cc duel sport. They use that type of bike because they are small and light so if you get in a bit of trouble you can basically put you feet down and be OK. It is like swimming in the shallow end of the pool. You figure things out and build confidence before you dive in the deep end. The NT700 is not the deep end but it is the expensive end, at $12k for the abs model it is a pretty expensive toy. If your only experience is the safety training course you could stand to get some more saddle time on a small bike before stepping up. It is probably twice as heavy and three times as powerful as what you have ridden so far so if you get it you are going to have a rough first couple months where you are anxious while you are on it. Best case is this will make you cautious until your skills catch up to your machine, worst case is it prevents you from enjoying ridding and ultimately leads to you not riding; there is an even-worse case but it probably does not have to be pointed out.
You can literally pick up a used bike for under $1000 ride it for 4 months and turn around and sell it for what you paid for it and get lots of experience with no financial risk, then go back to the dealership in March and pick up the NT700 and ride it home with a big grin on your face instead of stalling in the dealership parking lot.
Long story short is is a good bike now but it will be a great bike next spring.
Last thing, it has a 31 1/2" seat height and pretty high pegs so if you are much over 5'10" you should probably look for something with a better fit.
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no bike is too much for a beginner, as long as that beginner can safely balance its weight.
you don't need abs and other safety devices. in fact, having abs on a bike can lead to more trouble than it may avoid. people tend to devlop habits of using things such as that as a crutch.
basic bike will be fine.
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Hey Del its not the motorcycle its the rider!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most of us that have been riding since before we had a divers license. dirt bikes and the like. Or your 14 and mow the neighbors grass all summer just to trade them the motorcycle sitting under the eves of the house, that is falling apart.
Most of us started off with what we could afford at 14. So most of us started off with small bikes 250cc and worked our way up.
I wouldn't get a bike just because you can afford it. Get one you can comfortable ride without having to pull a wheely in sixth gear.
the Honda NT700v looks like a nice bike. Looks fine if you don't ride it like you stole it.
My guess is if your even asking yourself the question "is it to much for my first bike" then yes it is. Listen to yourself. you can always upgrade later.
Srry cap1 I disagree with ya here. We all start our kids out on smaller bikes. We don't put them on the largest machine they can safely balance....
Would you really let your friend who is a beginner get you your V-max or 1100rr and take it around the block. You know he would kill himself.
It makes a big difference if you get frozen throttle syndrome if something goes wrong. ( ya know where your muscle freeze up and your hand on the throttle won't let off, because to much is going on plus some unforeseen stuff running through your head. Smaller bike you can hit the brakes anyway and stall the motor usually, or at least slow down. A V- max or the like will melt the brakes and put you through the store front window faster than you can say OH toejamakemushrooms.
Firedrgn had this exact thing happen to him. A friend came over and said hey im thinking of getting a motorcycle can I try yours. Frozen throttle syndrome, it was like strapping a bottle rocket to and ant. Lucky he had a long straight road in front of him and finally got it stopped in time. If he was at a stoplight What a mess.
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Buy the safest helmet (not necessarily the most expensive) that money can buy.
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Hey Del its not the motorcycle its the rider!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most of us that have been riding since before we had a divers license. dirt bikes and the like. Or your 14 and mow the neighbors grass all summer just to trade them the motorcycle sitting under the eves of the house, that is falling apart.
Most of us started off with what we could afford at 14. So most of us started off with small bikes 250cc and worked our way up.
I wouldn't get a bike just because you can afford it. Get one you can comfortable ride without having to pull a wheely in sixth gear.
the Honda NT700v looks like a nice bike. Looks fine if you don't ride it like you stole it.
My guess is if your even asking yourself the question "is it to much for my first bike" then yes it is. Listen to yourself. you can always upgrade later.
Srry cap1 I disagree with ya here. We all start our kids out on smaller bikes. We don't put them on the largest machine they can safely balance....
Would you really let your friend who is a beginner get you your V-max or 1100rr and take it around the block. You know he would kill himself.
It makes a big difference if you get frozen throttle syndrome if something goes wrong. ( ya know where your muscle freeze up and your hand on the throttle won't let off, because to much is going on plus some unforeseen stuff running through your head. Smaller bike you can hit the brakes anyway and stall the motor usually, or at least slow down. A V- max or the like will melt the brakes and put you through the store front window faster than you can say OH toejamakemushrooms.
Firedrgn had this exact thing happen to him. A friend came over and said hey im thinking of getting a motorcycle can I try yours. Frozen throttle syndrome, it was like strapping a bottle rocket to and ant. Lucky he had a long straight road in front of him and finally got it stopped in time. If he was at a stoplight What a mess.
LOL, my lil bro killed a tennis court that way.
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Hey Del its not the motorcycle its the rider!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most of us that have been riding since before we had a divers license. dirt bikes and the like. Or your 14 and mow the neighbors grass all summer just to trade them the motorcycle sitting under the eves of the house, that is falling apart.
Most of us started off with what we could afford at 14. So most of us started off with small bikes 250cc and worked our way up.
I wouldn't get a bike just because you can afford it. Get one you can comfortable ride without having to pull a wheely in sixth gear.
the Honda NT700v looks like a nice bike. Looks fine if you don't ride it like you stole it.
My guess is if your even asking yourself the question "is it to much for my first bike" then yes it is. Listen to yourself. you can always upgrade later.
Srry cap1 I disagree with ya here. We all start our kids out on smaller bikes. We don't put them on the largest machine they can safely balance....
Would you really let your friend who is a beginner get you your V-max or 1100rr and take it around the block. You know he would kill himself.
It makes a big difference if you get frozen throttle syndrome if something goes wrong. ( ya know where your muscle freeze up and your hand on the throttle won't let off, because to much is going on plus some unforeseen stuff running through your head. Smaller bike you can hit the brakes anyway and stall the motor usually, or at least slow down. A V- max or the like will melt the brakes and put you through the store front window faster than you can say OH toejamakemushrooms.
Firedrgn had this exact thing happen to him. A friend came over and said hey im thinking of getting a motorcycle can I try yours. Frozen throttle syndrome, it was like strapping a bottle rocket to and ant. Lucky he had a long straight road in front of him and finally got it stopped in time. If he was at a stoplight What a mess.
my first bike was a honda cm450. i was warned to not get that bike, as i'd get tired of it too quickly. i had it for less than 6 months, before i got my first shadow 1100.
crotch rockets.....i'd not let any of my friends have one of them as a first bike, given the choice..............cruisers though, are a bit easier.
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my first bike was a honda cm450. i was warned to not get that bike, as i'd get tired of it too quickly. i had it for less than 6 months, before i got my first shadow 1100.
crotch rockets.....i'd not let any of my friends have one of them as a first bike, given the choice..............cruisers though, are a bit easier.
I would more likely say that somewhere in the middle is better. Anything with good low speed handling ie. Honda CB etc. Although to you and me getting a cruiser around a busy carpark would be fairly easy, a new guy may struggle in a low speed situation and end up on his arse. Small pain but still big scratches in the paint.
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A ZX-14/Hayabusa is a bad decision... If you're stupid. They're very controllable, hold better resale value, and are good bikes all around. It's not like you're strapping a missile to your arse. ANY bike can kill ya. May as well get one that you like, and ride within your capabilities.
EDIT: Didn't think of this one till now. Yamaha V-max. Cruiser style with a BUNCH of torque.
Exactly Jager that's what I have been telling everyone for a long time now but some people are so narrow minded to where they can't see it. First let me expand on what I said earlier. The ZX-14 was my first street bike, I have had more dirt bikes ranging from 50cc - 250cc than I could shake a stick at and had ridden a ton of my buddies bikes up to a YZF-R1 before I bought the big boy for my first street bike. I said before, it will only do what you tell it to do, if you're not an idiot and don't act like one it doesn't matter what size bike you get, it'll hurt you but as always most of the crowd still believes you have to start on something small. The only regret I have about buying that one at first wasn't that it was so big, it was that when it went down it hurt the wallet a little more than something smaller would have. The 14 was great because most of my driving was on 4 lane highways running about 65 and slightly higher at times :devil back and forth to work and a little to town. Like you mentioned, just as the 'busa is, the 14 is a very controllable, stable bike that rides like a Cadillac.
Oh and for all the people who say it's too big to start with, Pops was riding a 600 back in the '70s which was his 3rd bike after selling 2 and riding for a few years, and hit gravel vs. me hitting sand, guess what his outcome was.......yup, he went down too. So I'll stick to my guns in that it doesn't matter what size you get to start off with if you're not stupid with it.
There is a wealth of information here in regards to bikes, gear, riding techniques and everything. I'm sure some more great and epic, I can't believe I used that word, stories will be soon to follow here. Good luck to you Del, be sure to keep us posted.
Oh and Jager, I wanted that helmet when I bought mine but didn't get it because the dealership only had a L and it was too big. If you still have hold of it next spring when the new one hits my garage I'll take it off your hands.
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Since 1994, currently VTR1000 FX. :rock
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I've thought about it (even went to the Honda dealership yesterday) and I've decided to postpone getting the NT700v. It would be ideal for commutes to and from work and play but I'll go with something a little smaller and definitely cheaper as my first bike.
Thanks for advice gents, I knew I shouldn't go bit pricey on the first time out, I just needed to hear it from someone else.
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You're main problem, other than those that have already been mentioned, is the phenomenal costs.
Partly because unlike most car drivers, you actually go out riding for fun, hence do more miles. Large capacity bikes are reasonable economical until you ride them with gusto, then they are pretty similar in mileage to cars (probably won't affect you in the states).
But the shinier gear will cost you arm and a leg. I have a room upstairs with more leather than a cattle farm, mostly purchased to match new bikes, and enough helmets to equip a small (if badly uniformed) guerrilla army. Tens of pairs of gloves, cheapo nasties from when I started out, right up to £100+ race gloves, same deal with boots.
And then just going to the bike shop gets you in trouble. Since 1996 I've owned:
1986 Honda Nr 250 Superdream (blew up)
1988 Honda Nc 400 Superdream (blew up)
2000 Honda NTV 650 Deauville (part ex'd)
1996 Honda VTR 1000 Firestorm (stolen)
2000 Honda VFR 800 F (part ex'd)
2000 Honda Pan European (crashed, write off)
1997 Honda VFR 750 F (part ex'd)
1990 Honda CBR 1000f (crashed, write off)
1989 Honda CBR 1000f (part ex'd)
1997 Triumph Daytona 955 (crashed, repaired, stolen)
and finally a 1999 Honda VTR 1000 FX which is my current bike.
Works out at one hell of a lot of money, coupled with the completely destroyed left wrist, (16 breaks, 13 pins, K-wire, 4 plates) Four broken ribs, 1 punctured kidney, 2 shattered teeth, subdural heamatoma, loss of a job etc.
Also impossible to explain to anyone who doesn't ride why you still would and unneccessary to explain to anyone that does.
All the best Del, enjoy and never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly. :salute
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danny.. no offense, but the costs aren't so great so long as you don't go blowing up and wrecking every bike you own! HAHA.. seriously though.
I'm on my third bike in 15 years... First was a '78 Honda CB400, next was a '81? Kaw KZ750... then I took a break for several years partly because of financial problems and partly because of the ex-wife didn't want me riding (come to find out she was the root cause of the financial problems.. go figure) but then she left so I got me a sweet deal on a Harley.
Yes it's a little skirtster, but I like it.. fast and nimble... and comfortable. I traded a truck I no longer needed for it dead even with a guy whose wife didn't want him riding either. Poor guy was almost in tears signing the title over, but whatcha gonna do? His wife got transferred to Colorado and two days before the move she told him "the bike isn't coming with us".
Anyway, none of my bikes are what I would call expensive. I change the oil every year with AMSOil, change trans fluid every other year with same, keep it maintained and ride safely. I don't have to pop wheelies or ride like crazy to have fun... although a quick little street drag can sometimes be fun. The Honda was $200 and the Kaw was free (cost about $400 to get it up and running). My only accident on a bike (thank God) is when I got rear ended by a teenager in a DQ parking lot in the Honda. Haha I was his boss at the time, and I made him follow me home. The damage was a bit significant but I didn't even bother filing a claim.. I mean come on... $200 bike... heck I straightened out the handlebars with a hammer and sold it for what I paid for it later on.
As for spending money on gear... like I said before.. I don't necessarily believe in spending tons of money on it. Yes.. wear some thick jeans and comfortable boots... and of course goggles/helmet... and jacket/gloves when the weather is cool enough for it, but for people to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on riding suits and other gear.. especially for the reasons of 'matching a new bike'... I mean come on use some common sense here. It'd be different if you were racing the thing... but come on now!
My gear consists of the following:
-Jeans.. $35 -Boots.. $65 -Leather Jacket.. $40 on clearance -Leather Vest.. $120 -Helmet.. $120 -Goggles.. $15 -Leather Gloves.. $30
-Laughing at people riding around in $1000 riding suits just so they can look cool.. $priceless
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I've thought about it (even went to the Honda dealership yesterday) and I've decided to postpone getting the NT700v. It would be ideal for commutes to and from work and play but I'll go with something a little smaller and definitely cheaper as my first bike.
Thanks for advice gents, I knew I shouldn't go bit pricey on the first time out, I just needed to hear it from someone else.
One thing that would help from financial standpoint, don't buy a brand new bike. TONS of bikes are bought brand new....sit in the garage for a year....mebbe 1500 miles get put on them in the course of the year....then they sell em for a 25% loss
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I've thought about it (even went to the Honda dealership yesterday) and I've decided to postpone getting the NT700v. It would be ideal for commutes to and from work and play but I'll go with something a little smaller and definitely cheaper as my first bike.
Thanks for advice gents, I knew I shouldn't go bit pricey on the first time out, I just needed to hear it from someone else.
A wise decision Del, although I wasnt familiar with the NT700 until I looked it up it seems like a nice bike and even has abs as an option.The weight at 560 or so pounds isnt to bad but with the luggage all packed it could become abit much until you have plenty of experence.
I'd look at the 500 to 650 cc range,I wont suggest any bike as I'm not sure what type of riding you want to do and besides I'd suggest you get a used bike the first year or two then decide on "the bike" you really want.
Myself I dont ride anymore,the wife calls them Donercycles,but I started at around 9yo on a honda 70 then a 125 then a 2stroke kawi tripple 250,after that I went to a norton 750,then a honda 400x4 then a 750 kawi.I also spent time on several track bikes and competed in some MX,so I have abit of experience. Geese I forgot somewhere in there was a Hodaka MXer.
Once you actually get that first bike,go to an empty parking lot or a mall lot with no traffic and just ride around and practice stopping/starting,turns and all the silly little things.Nothing is as embarassing as stalling your bike at a light when there a lovely Blonde in the car beside you!! ya been there done that!!! :o
Good luck and safe rides!!
:salute
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Same thing with helmets... I use a half-helmet that has a fold-down front visor... It's pretty nice, solid, cool, and light, and it keeps bugs off of my face. I've tried full face helmets in the past and I just can't do it. I lose my sense of positioning and distance, and it really takes away a lot of my SA on a bike. I feel this is much more dangerous than the few benefits having a full helmet would give.
I have personally seen what the lack of protection a half-helmet gives. It's not pretty when a face runs down the pavement at 25mph. It's actually down right scary. A simple full face helmet would have saved years and years of reconstructive surgery and immeasurable pain. I actually think DOT should stop certifying half-helmets, but then there are many riders that don't wear helmets at all....So I guess a half-helmet is better than no helmet at all...
ATGATT does not equal full racing leathers all the time. It does equal wearing eye-protection, a helmet (including half-helmets), gloves, a long sleeved jacket (There are many mesh and textile jackets that are very hot weather compatible.), boots, and long pants (jeans are acceptable, though there are several types of long pants that provide much better protection without giving up comfort.).
Especially when making the short ride to the local gas station or eatery. Most accident happen within a few miles of home....
Aaron
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Well if you took the time to read my original post, I specifically asked not to be flamed for my opinion about safety gear. I'll try to make my point in a different way here. First off, I'm not telling ANYBODY not to take necessary precautions, but at the same time I also believe there is such a thing as going too far, and society these days has a tendency to do just that. Also keep in mind I'm not talking about racing, or motorcross, or any of the like as those are different circumstances altogether.. I'm talking about NORMAL RESPONSIBLE street riding.
If you're involved in an accident, of course a half helmet isn't going to be as safe as a full helmet... and of course wearing no jacket isn't going to be as safe as wearing one, but this doesn't take into account comfort. So what? You might say... lack of comfort is a small price to pay to be safe. I say WRONG! For two reasons... for one lack of comfort makes it HARDER TO RIDE which in my opinion makes your more prone to get into an accident. And for two it takes the fun out of it. It may sound dumb, but really... what's the point in riding if you're not having fun? Now if your sole reason for riding is to 'save the earth by using less fuel'... well then by all means load yourself down with all the safety gear you can.
Take the helmet for example. Yes... OBVIOUSLY a half helmet isn't as safe as a full helmet if you get into an accident, but that's the hitch... you have to be in the accident for that to factor in. Am I self-centered enough to believe that I will never get in a bike accident? HECK NO! But... I'll say it again... when wearing a full helmet I lose a lot of my sense of hearing... my sense of feel... my sense of smell... even my vision seems to be affected somewhat and because of this I become less alert, which in my opinion greatly INCREASES the change of being in an accident in the first place.
To make a statement like "DOT should stop certifying half-helmets" to me is as ridiculous as wearing a space suit on a 100 degree day. Nobody is arguing that it's not a pretty sight, and nobody is arguing that motorcycles are dangerous, but seriously the line has to be drawn somewhere, or else we'll all be riding around with a safety cage around us. Then a bike will catch fire and somebody will be trapped in that cage and it will open a whole new debate.
Really, what it all comes down to is personal preference, acceptance of risk, and common sense. Somewhere there is a balance between safety and rideability. If you feel safer wearing all the 'recommended' gear, then by all means do it. If you find that wearing all of the 'recommended' gear inhibits your ability to properly operate the bike, then by all means scale back.
Let's make another example here. Let's say that BOB has $2000 to spend on a motorcycle. He finds one for $1800, leaving him with $200 to purchase the necessary gear. Is he better off:
1> Spending $200 on helmets, gloves, coats, space suits, etc
2> Spending $100 on basic gear and $100 on a basic rider safety course
or 3> Spending $100 on a basic rider safety course, and $100 on an advanced rider safety course?
Well option 1 looks good, until you find out that he has no practical experience whatsoever... and even with ALL OF THE SAFETY GEAR IN THE WORLD, you're still going to get pretty jacked up hitting the pavement at 40-50+MPH, or slamming head first into a car even at 10mph.
Option 3 looks good, until a car does come out of nowhere and you spill your brains out all over the road
So you pick option 2... to me it's a fair balance considering the options available. Yes some can argue that BOB shouldn't even bother riding until he can afford the bike, all training course, AND all of the 'recommended' gear, but really.. it's not for everyone.
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Well if you took the time to read my original post, I specifically asked not to be flamed for my opinion about safety gear. I'll try to make my point in a different way here. First off, I'm not telling ANYBODY not to take necessary precautions, but at the same time I also believe there is such a thing as going too far, and society these days has a tendency to do just that. Also keep in mind I'm not talking about racing, or motorcross, or any of the like as those are different circumstances altogether.. I'm talking about NORMAL RESPONSIBLE street riding.
If you're involved in an accident, of course a half helmet isn't going to be as safe as a full helmet... and of course wearing no jacket isn't going to be as safe as wearing one, but this doesn't take into account comfort. So what? You might say... lack of comfort is a small price to pay to be safe. I say WRONG! For two reasons... for one lack of comfort makes it HARDER TO RIDE which in my opinion makes your more prone to get into an accident. And for two it takes the fun out of it. It may sound dumb, but really... what's the point in riding if you're not having fun? Now if your sole reason for riding is to 'save the earth by using less fuel'... well then by all means load yourself down with all the safety gear you can.
Take the helmet for example. Yes... OBVIOUSLY a half helmet isn't as safe as a full helmet if you get into an accident, but that's the hitch... you have to be in the accident for that to factor in. Am I self-centered enough to believe that I will never get in a bike accident? HECK NO! But... I'll say it again... when wearing a full helmet I lose a lot of my sense of hearing... my sense of feel... my sense of smell... even my vision seems to be affected somewhat and because of this I become less alert, which in my opinion greatly INCREASES the change of being in an accident in the first place.
To make a statement like "DOT should stop certifying half-helmets" to me is as ridiculous as wearing a space suit on a 100 degree day. Nobody is arguing that it's not a pretty sight, and nobody is arguing that motorcycles are dangerous, but seriously the line has to be drawn somewhere, or else we'll all be riding around with a safety cage around us. Then a bike will catch fire and somebody will be trapped in that cage and it will open a whole new debate.
Really, what it all comes down to is personal preference, acceptance of risk, and common sense. Somewhere there is a balance between safety and rideability. If you feel safer wearing all the 'recommended' gear, then by all means do it. If you find that wearing all of the 'recommended' gear inhibits your ability to properly operate the bike, then by all means scale back.
Let's make another example here. Let's say that BOB has $2000 to spend on a motorcycle. He finds one for $1800, leaving him with $200 to purchase the necessary gear. Is he better off:
1> Spending $200 on helmets, gloves, coats, space suits, etc
2> Spending $100 on basic gear and $100 on a basic rider safety course
or 3> Spending $100 on a basic rider safety course, and $100 on an advanced rider safety course?
Well option 1 looks good, until you find out that he has no practical experience whatsoever... and even with ALL OF THE SAFETY GEAR IN THE WORLD, you're still going to get pretty jacked up hitting the pavement at 40-50+MPH, or slamming head first into a car even at 10mph.
Option 3 looks good, until a car does come out of nowhere and you spill your brains out all over the road
So you pick option 2... to me it's a fair balance considering the options available. Yes some can argue that BOB shouldn't even bother riding until he can afford the bike, all training course, AND all of the 'recommended' gear, but really.. it's not for everyone.
Valentino Rossi, Nicki Hayden, Freddie Spencer, Barry Sheen, Colin Edwards etc etc ad infinitum.
All wore/wear helmets, leathers, chest protectors, back protectors, armoured gloves, armoured boots, and all of them don't seem to find it that hard to ride their machines.
Having partaken of health services, never as a fault on my part i might add, i believe that anyone presenting themselves at accident and emergency departments, minus sheaves of skin and with severe gravel rash, should be treated last in line after the 35yr old with building bricks up his nose. At 60mph, against tarmac, human bone grinds down at 1 inch per second. Why take the chance that a low speed spill is going to ruin your life?
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All I can say is WOW. The OP only asked for a few suggestions on where to go next and somehow this turned into some people feeling the need to defend themselves. I ride all the time in shorts, tank top, and sneakers with no helmet. I would never recommend to someone to do that though, especially starting out. I only do it for comfort and I realize the risk and am willing to accept that. Let's face a reality here, if we were going to take the safest route we would not be on a motorcycle anyway, we would be in a car.
I can only repeat what others have said though as far as the OP is concerned.
When starting out (at least 1st year or 2):
Cheap used bike
Helmet, gloves, and long sleeves and jeans (minimum)
And you have already taken care of the safety course as well (I thought I read that)
Take your time no matter where you are going and pay extra special attention to everything going on around you (not just cars, lots of things can cause a really bad day) this should be done even by the most experienced rider
After you have gotten that experience in then modify that to suit your comfort zone.
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Honestly, I never factored in the thought all the equipment (full helmet, thick leather jacket, etc) would have on my SA (to use a AH reference). It is interesting to hear all opinions..
That said, I'll be wearing as much protection as I can. Heck, if I could bubble wrap myself for the first year, I would.
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Honestly, I never factored in the thought all the equipment (full helmet, thick leather jacket, etc) would have on my SA (to use a AH reference). It is interesting to hear all opinions..
That said, I'll be wearing as much protection as I can. Heck, if I could bubble wrap myself for the first year, I would.
Seriously, in regards to equipment, I once took a bike to the shop for service, and the only courtesy bike they had was a 125cc step through scooter. Anyway I'd taken my bike in wearing full leathers, and so i had to look like a pillock riding a scooter in full leathers. After about 5 mins on this twist and go I was laughing my bits of and slinging it around, trying to get the footboards and my knee down.
So i end up on a road at the bottom of where my dad lives, where I know there are some great corners and start chucking this thing about, anyhoo i come round a pretty blind left hander, and the otherwise beautifully dry and clear road is covered in wet leaves and water.
I sit up, brake, then realise i'm running out of room and will hit a wall, so i ditched the brakes and started turning in again. Nearly made it, front washed out and needless to say I binned it.
Well I was doing about 30 mph or less but falling of a damned scooter in full leathers at low speed I bruised my knee and hip, twisted my ankle and pretty well scuffed my leathers up and ripped my jacket sleeve.
I do not want to imagine what the state of my legs would have been if i had been in jeans and a T shirt. As it was I was able to jump back onto the nearly undamaged courtesy bike and pootle off before anyone saw my embarassment. Unprotected this obscenely drawn out diatribe may have ended differently.
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I wear a half helmet for the same reasons Tigger29 does....plus I think on a cruiser, a full face helmet just looks weird, strictly IMO.
However, the first 2 years after I started riding street bikes (all cruisers..and I did ride dirtbikes for many years prior to that) I did wear a cheap HJC full face helmet for safety. My opinion is simply "your safety is your responsibility and you should equip to the level you feel comfortable with as well as be prepared for the consequences of your choices".
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Ask Belial about the value of a full face helmet. A few years back he was rear ended by a pickup truck. His bike was sucked under the front of the truck and he was used as a snow plow for about 70 feet before the truck came to a stop. Looking at his gear afterward, nothing came out of it without a scuff and each of them probably would have been a skin graft. To the point about the full face helmet, the front of it had several scuff marks from rubbing on the front tire of the truck. Had he been wearing an open face or no helmet he would have been measuring the tread depth with his nose.
We all know the risk of riding but the point of the gear is to give yourself the best chance at walking away that you can.
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There is no such thing as too much riding protection!
What type of equipment you use is up to you but remember the other vehicle always wins Vs a motorcycle.To use Del's AH anology,whether you get Ho'd or picked you just never get the best of a car or worse a truck.It's not the pilot it's the plane in this case.
While you might out grow your first bike you dont usually out grow your equipment,well it's true I cant fit my leathers anymore and gave them to someone who could use them,you generally have the same helmet,coat/suit,gloves and boots for a long time.
So choose this stuff wisely,get the best helmet you can and make sure any suit/coatand pants set you get doesnt restrict your movements.1 piece racing suits arent the best thing for street use even if they offer the best protection.
Before you buy the bike take a trip to the shop{s} and price out some of the equipment,you can make do with a coat,gloves helmet and boots but you might also have suitable boots and gloves already so that would let you spend more on the helmet.
Go to the shop and ask,not just the owner or workers but any riders you meet,every area has different needs,your riding needs would be different in say AZ as opposed to Mich. so ask around and get the best stuff possible.
I'm not going to say get this helmet or that,this suit or those boots,again I'm not sure of what you plan on and what's best for where you live.
hope that helps Del!
:salute
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I used to get asked by folks I stopped why I didn't tell them they should wear a helmet when riding. I told them the same thing I tell folks now. If they do not think their head is worth the price of a helmet, I sure won't tell them it is. There are folks who need transplants and there is a teaching transplant hospital in town. Those folks will probably give the parts more care than their previous owners did.
If you don't want to wear a helmet or protective gear and are over 18, knock yourself out. At least have the courtesy to fill out a donor card.
What was that Ron White said you couldn't fix? It applies to riding without gear in addition to acting stupid on a bike too.
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There is no such thing as too much riding protection!
What type of equipment you use is up to you but remember the other vehicle always wins Vs a motorcycle.To use Del's AH anology,whether you get Ho'd or picked you just never get the best of a car or worse a truck.It's not the pilot it's the plane in this case.
While you might out grow your first bike you dont usually out grow your equipment,well it's true I cant fit my leathers anymore and gave them to someone who could use them,you generally have the same helmet,coat/suit,gloves and boots for a long time.
So choose this stuff wisely,get the best helmet you can and make sure any suit/coatand pants set you get doesnt restrict your movements.1 piece racing suits arent the best thing for street use even if they offer the best protection.
Before you buy the bike take a trip to the shop{s} and price out some of the equipment,you can make do with a coat,gloves helmet and boots but you might also have suitable boots and gloves already so that would let you spend more on the helmet.
Go to the shop and ask,not just the owner or workers but any riders you meet,every area has different needs,your riding needs would be different in say AZ as opposed to Mich. so ask around and get the best stuff possible.
I'm not going to say get this helmet or that,this suit or those boots,again I'm not sure of what you plan on and what's best for where you live.
hope that helps Del!
:salute
i still wear the very first leather jacket i bought when i was 26. i'm 48 now. :neener:
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(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/223/triumphbonnevillet100li.jpg) (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/triumphbonnevillet100li.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
That's my Triumph it's an awesome bike but not something you'd want to start on.
For a beginner I recommend any of the Boulevard bikes made by Suzuki, they are decently priced and very cool. If you pick up an auto locator there are always ton's of used Boulevards in there and they run great.
And as Tf15pin mentioned I did go down hard in 2006 and I'd be dead or disfigured without the gear I had on.
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i still wear the very first leather jacket i bought when i was 26. i'm 48 now. :neener:
LOL Cap,I didnt just grow old,I grew out too...... :neener:
:salute
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I still have the leather motorcycle coat I was issued back in 81 and I use the ballistic material copy of the classic bike jacket I was issued in the later 80's during the winter times now. It's far lighter than the 15+ lb leather jacket and warmer since it already hs a built in liner.
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Del,
I just started riding at the beginning of the season last year, so I'm almost in the same position as you.
My first bike was (and still is, I haven't gotten a bigger one yet) a Ninja 250. Its a 'sporty' bike, not so much a sports bike. The riding position is comfortable though, your feet are under you and not behind you like they are on pure sports bikes. It gets great gas mileage for going back and forth to work, and it is very nimble. It is not fast, although I think it is definitely fast enough for a first bike.
I would recommend against getting anything bigger than a 500 cc if you are looking for a 'sport' bike (and honestly, I'd get a 250 if I were you). I'm less familiar with the cruiser bikes, I did my MSF on a 250 cruiser (Nighthawk 250), I'm pretty sure the Ninja is faster and better handling, but the Nighthawk may be more comfortable for longer trips. Of course, you probably wouldn't take a long trip on a 250.
I did plenty of research about good first bikes on the internet before I pulled the trigger on the 250. Getting a 250 has a lot going for it - they are cheap for one, and in relatively high demand for another. I got mine for $1800. When I sell it I'll probably try to get $1500 for it, although if the price of gas spikes again I could probably get $2500 for it. Plus it is easier to get some experience on a slow learner bike then sell it and get a bigger and faster one than it is to wreck a bigger and faster one and try to work up the courage to get back on a bike (assuming you are still able to ride).
I'd also recommend a full face helmet, and a jacket and gloves, and boots. I don't wear any special pants when I ride, just jeans, but I would like to get some eventually. Jeans really aren't going to do a damn thing unless you literally fall over on the bike at a dead stop, but I figure they are better than shorts. As was said before, you want to make sure your laces are short (I double tie mine).
All of the advice about really anticipating people actively trying to kill you is good - I've only been riding for just over a year now and I couldn't tell you how many people have pulled out right in front of me. Only got caught by surprise once though, and that was because I couldn't fathom a lady pulling out in front of the monster truck that was coming the other way. I locked up the front brakes for a split second on that one, but I recovered quickly and didn't drop it. Just goes to show you, always anticipate.
However you come to the decision, I'd pick the bike you are most comfortable with. If you have any doubts at all about going with a big bike, I'd listen to them. You don't have to impress anyone else with your bike, and I can tell you that I have more fun riding my little 250 than I have ever had driving any car. Welcome to the club and be careful out there :)
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LOL Cap,I didnt just grow old,I grew out too...... :neener:
:salute
sorry sir!!! it's been awhile since i've been in here, and couldn't turn down the opportunity for a little friendly fun.
if it makes ya feel any better, i gained a couple of ounces the other day............. :noid :noid
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Del,
I just started riding at the beginning of the season last year, so I'm almost in the same position as you.
My first bike was (and still is, I haven't gotten a bigger one yet) a Ninja 250. Its a 'sporty' bike, not so much a sports bike. The riding position is comfortable though, your feet are under you and not behind you like they are on pure sports bikes. It gets great gas mileage for going back and forth to work, and it is very nimble. It is not fast, although I think it is definitely fast enough for a first bike.
I would recommend against getting anything bigger than a 500 cc if you are looking for a 'sport' bike (and honestly, I'd get a 250 if I were you). I'm less familiar with the cruiser bikes, I did my MSF on a 250 cruiser (Nighthawk 250), I'm pretty sure the Ninja is faster and better handling, but the Nighthawk may be more comfortable for longer trips. Of course, you probably wouldn't take a long trip on a 250.
I did plenty of research about good first bikes on the internet before I pulled the trigger on the 250. Getting a 250 has a lot going for it - they are cheap for one, and in relatively high demand for another. I got mine for $1800. When I sell it I'll probably try to get $1500 for it, although if the price of gas spikes again I could probably get $2500 for it. Plus it is easier to get some experience on a slow learner bike then sell it and get a bigger and faster one than it is to wreck a bigger and faster one and try to work up the courage to get back on a bike (assuming you are still able to ride).
I'd also recommend a full face helmet, and a jacket and gloves, and boots. I don't wear any special pants when I ride, just jeans, but I would like to get some eventually. Jeans really aren't going to do a damn thing unless you literally fall over on the bike at a dead stop, but I figure they are better than shorts. As was said before, you want to make sure your laces are short (I double tie mine).
All of the advice about really anticipating people actively trying to kill you is good - I've only been riding for just over a year now and I couldn't tell you how many people have pulled out right in front of me. Only got caught by surprise once though, and that was because I couldn't fathom a lady pulling out in front of the monster truck that was coming the other way. I locked up the front brakes for a split second on that one, but I recovered quickly and didn't drop it. Just goes to show you, always anticipate.
However you come to the decision, I'd pick the bike you are most comfortable with. If you have any doubts at all about going with a big bike, I'd listen to them. You don't have to impress anyone else with your bike, and I can tell you that I have more fun riding my little 250 than I have ever had driving any car. Welcome to the club and be careful out there :)
actually....contrary to something i said earlier...........listen to these guys.......keep it small for now.
i just saw a couple of guys today........they were easily able to balance their bikes at traffic lights.......but watching them get to those lights....and then take off from those lights......lets say i thought i was going to have an accident or 5 recorded on my dash cam.
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All in good fun Cap. :aok
but actually you made my point for me that good equipment lasts so it's worth it to buy the best you can!
:salute
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Brake for moose
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Brake for moose
And if you find yourself at the front end of a red light...slide over and grab the shoulder line to the left or the lane line to the right...
Your are far less likely to get turned into a snowplow shovel if some idiot rear ends you because he was taking a bite of his big mac...
Don't put yourself in vulnerable positions, assume everyone is inattentive around you, assume your invisible...and ride defensive...and then lather rinse repeat...
Every thing and every car on the road around is a potential life threatening bogey....operate your machine accordingly...
Oneway
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And if you find yourself at the front end of a red light...slide over and grab the shoulder line to the left or the lane line to the right...
Your are far less likely to get turned into a snowplow shovel if some idiot rear ends you because he was taking a bite of his big mac...
Don't put yourself in vulnerable positions, assume everyone is inattentive around you, assume your invisible...and ride defensive...and then lather rinse repeat...
Every thing and every car on the road around is a potential life threatening bogey....operate your machine accordingly...
Oneway
This reminds me of one rule of thumb that i use. If you are stopping at a red light or stop sign behind another vehicle, make sure that you leave enough room that you can pull forward and get around it. This way you can move if it looks like someone is going to hit you. Thus preventing you from being a biker sandwich.
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whatever you do, dont buy a harley. Theyre over weight, loud, over priced, slow POS. :aok
And stay away from a busa till you get some experience. Youll end up road burger.
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Just another shameless plug for the most fun to ride motorcycle on the road today.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Yamaha_MT-01_Custom.jpg)
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Anyone have any experience with 2003 Kymco Venox?
(http://images.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/250s_xl+2003_kymco_venox+side_right_view.jpg)
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Start small, seriously small, and feel your way up. ANY bike will go faster than you ever need to go. Find something that fits YOU. Leather works really, really well, the alternative sucks. :rock
<S>MajChaos
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To make a statement like "DOT should stop certifying half-helmets" to me is as ridiculous as wearing a space suit on a 100 degree day. Nobody is arguing that it's not a pretty sight, and nobody is arguing that motorcycles are dangerous, but seriously the line has to be drawn somewhere, or else we'll all be riding around with a safety cage around us. Then a bike will catch fire and somebody will be trapped in that cage and it will open a whole new debate.
I make the "DOT should stop certifying half-helmets" because I feel it is misleading to riders using this helmet. The DOT certificaton giving a false sense of protection and safety. If you want to ride with a half-helmet, then so be it, but don't claim or believe its going to provide much protection in a crash. I'm sure it will provide a small margin of additional protection over a bare skull, but not much. Kind of like the "jeans as riding pants" protection.
Terror
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My wife and I bought a 2007 Rebel for her with a 1,100 miles on it today. She'll have it by Friday...
Still looking for a bike for myself, nothing more than I can handle hopefully.
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My wife and I bought a 2007 Rebel for her with a 1,100 miles on it today. She'll have it by Friday...
Still looking for a bike for myself, nothing more than I can handle hopefully.
Del go sit your rear on a Triumph street triple. While at 675cc, adult ridden it can be grown into quickly.
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I rode with a club for 15 year's out of Memphis and starts with an S , some of you probity know . Had more wrecks than I can remember but we stayed drunk all the time . Seen one of the old member's last week and he looked to be 100 year's old . Glad I got out when I did . 48 now , so my riding day's and sleeping on the ground are over . If I do it again it will be in a mini Van , LOL !
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Del, your going to get opinions about bike and stuff that will vary from personal experiences to geographical locations of where the riders live.
I will give the following simple advise.
If you have not taken a MSF or Rider Education course then do so as soon as possible.
Wear the basic protective gear, such as a glasses, helmet, gloves, boots, long pants and armored jacket. There is a bunch of stuff out there and a lot of it is good stuff. Prices vary greatly, but for the best bang for your buck, I like Joe Rocket accessories.
As for what bike to buy. It's simple. One that you can sit flat footed on, and when you sit on it and take it off side stand, it doesn't feel so heavy that you think it will fall over. I would buy used, odds are you probably will drop it as a new rider, and I would rather drop a used bike rather than a new one.
The best experience is time in the saddle, but experience won't get you out of everything. When riding always be prepared for the unexpected.
Now do my opinions mean anything, well, that's for you to decided. I currently own three bikes, one being a trike. I have traveled around a million, and yes I said a million miles on bikes, and all my riding is pleasure. I do not do any commuting on them. I have ridden in 49 states, most of the provinces in Canada, and a bunch of Mexico. My favorite pass time is riding, and I play Aces High when I'm not doing that. For the last 30 years my life has revolved around riding and traveling on a bike. It is a life style for me not just a hobby. Just for the record, and I have nothing against them, but I do not ride a Harley. :)
Just my Opinions,
Fred
(http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww100/bmwgs_ah/bike-1.jpg)
(http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww100/bmwgs_ah/adv.jpg)
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Nice trike goldwing Fred. :aok
There 1 around me,the guy lost the use of his legs in a bike accident and now rides a trike goldwing,chair and all!
Del, the rebel is a great choice for your wife,now just becareful you don't get something that she'll have a hard time keeping up with.A larger bike will be slightly more comfortable and you'll be able to ride longer than her so take your cues from her on the rebel and when she needs a rest you better stop.
We had his and hers back around 1980,but then kids came and the bikes went! Have fun and ride safe!
:salute
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Any bike can kill you. Please dont base confidence on engine size. Any other driver can kill you. SA is critical.
<S>
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Just get this...The last bike you'll ever need or ride...I drag race one in 1987...WOW what a bike..Water cooled Shaft drive.
http://www.superstreetbike.com/scenes/0911_sbkp_200_hp_2010_star_vmax/index.html
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/2010VMAX41248805545.jpg)
How could you Drag race one in 1987 ?
The Bike in this picture was just released this year and is a limited addition.
the Star VMAX an order-only model in Released in 2010.
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(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/texashogleg/80133952501b6274.jpg)
Excellent starter bike for the inexperienced rider. :aok
:rofl (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Fbv4OizRyhYKRM:http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/2008_ZX-14_beauty.jpg)
zx-14 > busa for beginners :aok
As for the OP, I got my first bike ever two summers ago, a 2008 ninja 650r, and in hindsight it was a bit too powerful for a first bike. My learning curve was steep, scary and dangerous, and I had a few more close calls than I would have liked.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll202/AWhetstone99/S5002447.jpg)
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Some good advice here. so as not to repeat any advice, Ill just add when you go down, you will be shaken. you will question yourself as to your decision to ride a bike. You will have to make that decision then.
gravel hates bikes. so does sand, and water and leaves and grass. Oh yeah and anything loose anywhere you are riding. someone said theres little or no difference between shorts and jeans when a bike goes down. There is. If you are in a low speed lay down, jeans will keep you from getting burned on the exhaust and other hot parts.
buy or borrow a book called "A Twist of the Wrist" It's written by a motorcycle racer, but it has great advice for the street too.
I have owned two bikes, one a 600 yamaha radian the other a 500 suzuki gs. I recommend getting a bike that has enough power to get you out of trouble. 600cc minimum if you ride highways. Any bike can brake hard, having the juice to out accelerate a sleeping, drunk or moronic driver coming up behind you can be worth its weight in skin grafts.
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Being a small guy riding a big bike I learned a trick that mite come in handy for some of you . If you lay your bike down and can't pick it up . Turn your handle bar's to the right and put your back against the bike and pick it up with your leg's . Only way I could get mine off the ground . That make sense ? lol
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Being a small guy riding a big bike I learned a trick that mite come in handy for some of you . If you lay your bike down and can't pick it up . Turn your handle bar's to the right and put your back against the bike and pick it up with your leg's . Only way I could get mine off the ground . That make sense ? lol
Yah, I'm 6 ', 165 soaking wet, and that's how I used to pick up my 650 pound FLT. (Have yet to drop the Pan in 15 years, but it weighs lots less)
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Here's my bike gotta 03 ZX6R did the paint myself :rock
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/mcboi85/005-3.jpg)
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oh and btw if you ride and you've had as many close calls as i have with other vehicles on the road this might be a pretty good investment for your life next to your helmet of course. I got mine for $59.99 online and it is rather small but loud. You can hide it easily in the fairings of almost any sportbike, and im sure it would look cool mounted right on any cruiser as well because of the chrome horns.
http://www.kleinn.com/products/6126.htm
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Yah, I'm 6 ', 165 soaking wet, and that's how I used to pick up my 650 pound FLT. (Have yet to drop the Pan in 15 years, but it weighs lots less)
Yeah it's a trick to it but it work's .
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I agree with you there, to some degree but I'm not sure if they are truly more reckless or we just notice the motorcycle more.
A week before I started my course, a pack of motorcycles were weaving in and out of traffic a good 30 mph faster than the rest of traffic. I literally had to swerve to the right and brake to avoid one of them that timed his swerve in front of me too early.
About 2 minutes later, I'm getting off my exit and I see one of the bikes on its side, the tank definitely ruptured with gas all over the exit ramp. The poor guy was riding in a t shirt, shorts and was bleeding like a 13 year old girl.
I will share the best advice my Dad gave me, I believe it has kept me alive for many years in many "less than ideal" situations!
(It is not a matter of IF you crash, It is a matter of WHEN)!
Being able to crash with some sort of control and NOT panicking is as important as doing everything possible not to crash! IMHO
Good Luck Del, have fun and keep the shiny side up! But also know when to let it go :aok
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Yeah it's a trick to it but it work's .
Sonofabich...I dropped the frikkin Pan today...1st time ever. Lol...I thought about this thread as I was dragging it back upright. (Was unstrapping it from trailer, failed to take note of which straps were tight....got back from FLA last night) Didnt even scratch it (no plastic in 1962) :aok
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Oh man , well at lest you or the bike did not get hurt . Dam wish I still had mt PH but that thing beet me to deaf .
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Some have already said it
If you want some fun and to learn road sense a 2nd hand approx 70BHP "sports" naked for your first bike. Assume that you will put it on its side or in a hedge at some point during the first year. Dress accordingly.
Get some track time in learning best cornering techniques (read twist of the wrist) not to go racing but just how to cope with eventualities. Get some road sense training. In the UK we have a variety of schemes. Indeed the Brit Bike police (Bike safe) teach something called "Swift Passage" which is basically riding at speed when its appropriate.
My son just swopped his starter bike, a 70hp SV650, for a 105hp Street Triple. He had done 43k miles on the SV over 5 years touring Europe with me 3 times. He never really lacked for power except when wanting to do some very rapid overtakes.
I am currently on a 120hp Aprilia Tuono. 32K over 3 years. I started on a 70 HP Guzzi in 2005.
If you just want to cruise around then any old hog will do.............. get something that looks pretty.
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Del 1 last thing I might point out,it may sound silly but bare with me.
Hearing protection can be needed if you ride for prolong periods! This would be anything longer than 60 mins as the decible level can be higher than you would be allowed to safely work with.
85+ decibles of sound with long exposure can and will cause hearing loss,when I first read about this years ago I started wearing earplugs whenever I rode,the wind noise alone ofter exceeds those levels then add in a loud pipe and
you can certainly affect your hearing.
All those Racers wear them why shouldnt you!!!
:salute
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Any bike can kill you. Please dont base confidence on engine size. Any other driver can kill you. SA is critical.
<S>
Feeling somewhat Orwellian, Any bike can kill you, some can kill you more than others :aok
Again, never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly.