Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Nemisis on June 29, 2010, 07:20:53 PM
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Some 300 tanks were converted over between '41 and '44. Thats roughly 3 times the number of wirbs produced (depending on the number you go by), and exclution due to production numbers isn't a relevant argument.
It used the Zis-4M (a Zis-2), able to penertate 140mm of steel at 500m. Probably will be perked, if not, we'll probably see another major change in tank usage, just as we did with the introduction of the M4A3(76).
Same armor, speed, and turret traverse, just had a 57mm Zis-4 in place of the 76mm F-34.
Well, what do you think? Would be very easy to add visually (just a longer, skinnier barrel).
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If it didn't pop out of a factory, then it won't be put in. Im pretty sure it goes with all mods.
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Some were produced from the factory (most, I think), but some were modified as well. Its not something that they did in the field, as it has an official designation, and its gun is modified to be mounted in a tank (Zis-4m rather than a Zis-2).
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ah
then +1, lol
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Pictures :furious
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There is no record of more than 50 of the Zis-4 equipped T-34s being put into combat tank units. Factory #92 produced 133 recorded guns before production was cancelled in December 1941. In May 1943 factory #92 began production again and by the time production was stopped again later in the year 172 additional guns had been produced. There was only ~2200 rounds of ammo produced for the gun and the ammo wore the barrel of the gun out after somewhere around ~150 rounds fired. It was discontinued in favor of the more powerful 85mm.
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All very high velocity guns had rather short life spans. I've read that the barrel of the Zis-4 (zis-2 adapted for use in the T-34) wore out after 500 rounds as opposed to 150.
Also, I was unable to find if it used the same ammunition as the Zis-2, as the Zis-2 was the main AT gun of the red army untill the introduction of the Bs-3. Asside from the Zis-2, about the only guns the russians had to kill the tigers and panthers were the A19, the F-22, and their 85mm AA guns. So it stands to reason that more than 2200 rds would have been produced.
gyrene81, 85 isn't that much greater than 50 (85 possibly being the number of wirbs built), and there weren't that many in service at the same time. Also, how many Ta-152's were built?
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Pics for lyric1 :noid
(http://ww2armor.jexiste.fr/Files/Allies/Photos/USSR/3-MediumTanks/03-T34/09-T34-57/T34-57.WW2.jpg)
(http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/t34_57/t34_57_04.jpg)
(http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_0904/26_46085_16696a84428af0d.jpg)
(http://www.rkka.es/Otros_articulos/14_coleccion_fotos/2001/43cfd253d1e8.jpg)
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If I may, the last picture you have is a T-34/85, from what I can tell from the turret. (Also the barrel on the main gun isnt skiny like the 57mm)
I may be wrong though
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+1 More tanks!
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oh, so it is. Thanks Imowface, IDK how I missed that.
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All very high velocity guns had rather short life spans. I've read that the barrel of the Zis-4 (zis-2 adapted for use in the T-34) wore out after 500 rounds as opposed to 150.
The 57mm Zis-4 was not a Zis-2 adapted for use in a T-34. The Zis-4 (Zis-4M was an improved version of the Zis-4) was an improved version of the Zis-2 after trials showed the Zis-2 to have a short barrel life (burnt out after 100-150 rounds) and low accuracy.
Also, I was unable to find if it used the same ammunition as the Zis-2, as the Zis-2 was the main AT gun of the red army untill the introduction of the Bs-3. Asside from the Zis-2, about the only guns the russians had to kill the tigers and panthers were the A19, the F-22, and their 85mm AA guns. So it stands to reason that more than 2200 rds would have been produced.
Production cost over-runs, production issues and the difficulty in producing the specialized AP round the 57mm used for anti-tank. The 57mm was a new caliber never before used by the Red Army so the manufacturing process had to start from scratch. Also, the specialized AP rounds tended to burn out the barrel quickly. Soviet records do not show that more than 2200 rounds of the specialized AP rounds were produced. In fact, the Red Army stopped producing this AP round and withdrew if from service.
Another problem with the T-34/57 was the HE rounds it used, they weren't powerful enough and the manufacturing quality was shoddy at best, with Soviet tankers reporting the HE rounds either partially exploding or not exploding at all. This was a major weakness of the T-34/57 which limited its effectiveness to support the infantry when required. The ZIS-4/4M guns also suffered from low accuracy
gyrene81, 85 isn't that much greater than 50 (85 possibly being the number of wirbs built), and there weren't that many in service at the same time. Also, how many Ta-152's were built?
Honestly, how effective do you think the T-34/57 would be in AH? We already have a T-34 that was more effective, the T-34/85 and I really can't see a reason to add the T-34/57 when it really doesn't bring anything to the table that the T-34/85 already doesn't.
ack-ack
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Thank you for the information on the Zis-2 and Zis-4.
And Ack-Ack, the T-34/85 is a LW tank, and this would be a EW tank. Would help with special events. IDK if HTC would decide to perk this (likely they would), but if not, it would give us a free T-34 with good AT capabilities. Something to combat the Tigers in the MW arena as well.
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nice to see a request for something that isnt a mid '45 limited numbers/combat uber machine though ... :aok
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And Ack-Ack, the T-34/85 is a LW tank, and this would be a EW tank. Would help with special events.
Considering it's operational history, those events have to be pretty "special".
Particularly as the only EW tank we have is a Soviet one, and the -57 would be just another... not very helpful at all for creating a special event ;)
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Well yes, but it would help with a battle of moscow, or a Kursk set up (we already bend the rules on some of that stuff for game play reasons). I mean this is the only soviet tank or tank destroyer capable of killing a tiger from the front unitll the Su-85.
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Well yes, but it would help with a battle of moscow, or a Kursk set up (we already bend the rules on some of that stuff for game play reasons). I mean this is the only soviet tank or tank destroyer capable of killing a tiger from the front unitll the Su-85.
No Tigers in the battle of Moscow anyway... we don't even have any German tank for that in the game ;)
I'm all for more EW tanks.. but please start with common ones, not a very obscure variant that basicallly saw almost no action.
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I've asked for the Panzer III(H and L), and that has not seen any attention. I've asked for the BT's, I've asked for the French tanks. Problem is that most are concerned about LW use. "well, will I use it? if not, its just taking resources away from whats more important".
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I'm all for more EW tanks.. but please start with common ones, not a very obscure variant that basicallly saw almost no action.
I agree with this completely.