Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wildcat1 on June 29, 2010, 10:40:57 PM

Title: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Wildcat1 on June 29, 2010, 10:40:57 PM
does anyone notice that out of all the aircraft armament in the game, that the M2 .50 cals seem to make enemies catch fire the most? it happens to me atleast....

thats why i think they should be affectionally known as "candle lighters" :aok :lol
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: BrownBaron on June 30, 2010, 12:16:21 AM
does anyone notice that out of all the aircraft armament in the game, that the M2 .50 cals seem to make enemies catch fire the most? it happens to me atleast....

thats why i think they should be affectionally known as "candle lighters" :aok :lol

Hm. I think taters consistently cause more flames than .50's, but they've already got the best nickname...
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Pigslilspaz on June 30, 2010, 03:19:44 AM
i personally like "little buddies" or "the things that go BANG BANG BANG BANG!"
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: SlapShot on June 30, 2010, 10:53:38 AM
I fondly refer to them as "buzz-saws".
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: crazierthanu on June 30, 2010, 11:49:03 AM
Hm. I think taters consistently cause more flames than .50's, but they've already got the best nickname...
Seems like when a tater catches someone on fire, an explosion occurs shortly after. With the 50. cals they usually lose a wing after 10 seconds of being on fire.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Shifty on June 30, 2010, 03:01:10 PM
thats why i think they should be affectionally known as "candle lighters" :aok :lol

Ma Deuce needs no other name.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Wildcat1 on June 30, 2010, 04:05:17 PM
Ma Deuce needs no other name.

hmmmm....

Ma Deuce's candle lighters :aok
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: STEELE on June 30, 2010, 09:52:26 PM
How about Geico guns? So easy a caveman can shoot 'em. :rofl
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: FA_Refugee on June 30, 2010, 11:37:57 PM
bang bang..shoot shoot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZarmRLa2p9Q
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Stoney on July 01, 2010, 12:01:54 AM
Ma Deuce needs no other name.

Without a doubt, unless you want to show extra respect, and call them Mother Deuce...
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Nemisis on July 01, 2010, 12:34:33 PM
I've always called them blow torches; they cut right through my enemies' wings.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: fbWldcat on July 02, 2010, 11:11:41 PM
Stop shooting us zeke pilots and maybe stuff like catching on fire wouldn't happen as much.  :D :joystick:
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Angus on July 03, 2010, 09:16:26 AM
Can openers?
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Spikes on July 03, 2010, 11:01:07 AM
No. .50 cal works fine.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: curry1 on July 03, 2010, 12:29:54 PM
Without a doubt, unless you want to show extra respect, and call them Mother Deuce...
indeed
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Angus on July 03, 2010, 01:03:01 PM
No. .50 cal works fine.

Like those 2x50 on your avatar :D
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Larry on July 15, 2010, 01:14:39 PM
How about Geico guns? So easy a caveman can shoot 'em. :rofl


 :rofl
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: fbWldcat on July 15, 2010, 01:28:14 PM
How about Geico guns? So easy a caveman can shoot 'em. :rofl

Click, pull trigger, bang?
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Wagger on July 15, 2010, 05:10:50 PM
For Twenty Two years in the Infantry they were .50cal or Ma Duce.  It was that way with my Father during WWII and is still the same with our troops today.  What else needs to be said.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: StokesAk on July 15, 2010, 05:12:19 PM
Can openers?

Thats the 75mm HE cannon on the B-25H
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: whipster22 on July 16, 2010, 09:02:33 AM
Thats the 75mm HE cannon on the B-25H

they are pumpkins   :furious


Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 16, 2010, 02:11:08 PM
does anyone notice that out of all the aircraft armament in the game, that the M2 .50 cals seem to make enemies catch fire the most? it happens to me atleast....

thats why i think they should be affectionally known as "candle lighters" :aok :lol
50 cals are screwed up right now as far as I know. You can be in a pony, hit a fighter over 100 times from a range of 400-600 out and he doesn't flame up or take serious damage like he should. Take a look at AH 50 cal, then take a look at 50 cal gun footage from WWII, here's the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-_cVgKSG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhWelWiqfvI&feature=related

Both are extremly different, 50 cal actually does something in this video then what they do in AH.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: TOMCAT21 on July 16, 2010, 03:47:54 PM
+1 Shifty
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: SlapShot on July 16, 2010, 04:35:34 PM
50 cals are screwed up right now as far as I know. You can be in a pony, hit a fighter over 100 times from a range of 400-600 out and he doesn't flame up or take serious damage like he should. Take a look at AH 50 cal, then take a look at 50 cal gun footage from WWII, here's the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-_cVgKSG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhWelWiqfvI&feature=related

Both are extremly different, 50 cal actually does something in this video then what they do in AH.

I fly .50 cal planes 99% of the time and I see no problem with them ripping and shredding my opponents to pieces when I get them on target.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 16, 2010, 04:53:59 PM
50 cals are screwed up right now as far as I know. You can be in a pony, hit a fighter over 100 times from a range of 400-600 out and he doesn't flame up or take serious damage like he should. Take a look at AH 50 cal, then take a look at 50 cal gun footage from WWII, here's the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-_cVgKSG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhWelWiqfvI&feature=related

Both are extremly different, 50 cal actually does something in this video then what they do in AH.

If one is having troubles shooting anything down using .50 calibers the problem isn't the gun, it's the gunner.  There is nothing wrong with the .50 calibers, it has been proven time and time again that there is nothing wrong.  I don't know why people keep insisting on attributing their shortcomings on the game.

The 4x .50 calibers are the primary guns I use in the P-38J, I only use 20mm cannons for bandits 200 yards or closer and most of my shots are in the 450 to 300 yard range which are done with my .50 calibers only.  I have never had any issues where my shots didn't do any damage when I've connected with a solid burst.  In fact, there really isn't a plane in the game that can survive a concentrated burst of .50 calibers (when I'm talking about a concentrated burst, I am referring to hitting the convergence point).  If you're hitting outside or inside of the convergence point, your shots will be scattered and will not have the same hitting power as you would get by hitting at the convergence point.  Not only are not you not getting the full hitting power, you're also wasting a lot of rounds by not hitting at the convergence.

It also shouldn't take much ammo either to shoot down a plane, you can easily shoot down a plane with just a few rounds, depending where on the plane you hit.  Aim for the known structural weak points in the air frame, the cockpit and/or engine and you'll see how easy it is to kill with a single burst of .50s.  It takes me around 100 .50 caliber rounds to shoot down another fighter and I still think that takes too much so now I'm concentrating more on aiming for the cockpit instead of my usual aiming point of the wing root and tail section.  The only time I expend a lot of .50s on an airplane is when I'm attacking bombers, usually takes close to 600 rounds or so for the entire formation, a lot less if I use 20mm (which is the only other time I use 20mm) cannons.

In short, it's not the game.

ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 16, 2010, 06:21:30 PM
I fly .50 cal planes 99% of the time and I see no problem with them ripping and shredding my opponents to pieces when I get them on target.
Cause it rips pieces off bit by bit instead of ripping it all at once like in the videos.  As you saw in the first video, the 109 is actually taking serious damage just by a few hits then hundreds like AH. As I watched films before this whole update a year ago, the 50's were pretty accurate, few hits to the plane took off pieces and did some damage, now they can't do anything like before.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 16, 2010, 06:26:02 PM
Cause it rips pieces off bit by bit instead of ripping it all at once like in the videos.  As you saw in the first video, the 109 is actually taking serious damage just by a few hits then hundreds like AH. As I watched films before this whole update a year ago, the 50's were pretty accurate, few hits to the plane took off pieces and did some damage, now they can't do anything like before.

.50s do the same thing in game if you hit at the convergence points.  There hasn't been any changes to the lethality of the .50 calibers, it didn't 'work fine a few years ago' and now suddenly it's porked now.  The problem is you, not the guns and all the YouTube videos in the world isn't going to prove your right.

ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 16, 2010, 06:30:41 PM
If one is having troubles shooting anything down using .50 calibers the problem isn't the gun, it's the gunner.  There is nothing wrong with the .50 calibers, it has been proven time and time again that there is nothing wrong.  I don't know why people keep insisting on attributing their shortcomings on the game.

The 4x .50 calibers are the primary guns I use in the P-38J, I only use 20mm cannons for bandits 200 yards or closer and most of my shots are in the 450 to 300 yard range which are done with my .50 calibers only.  I have never had any issues where my shots didn't do any damage when I've connected with a solid burst.  In fact, there really isn't a plane in the game that can survive a concentrated burst of .50 calibers (when I'm talking about a concentrated burst, I am referring to hitting the convergence point).  If you're hitting outside or inside of the convergence point, your shots will be scattered and will not have the same hitting power as you would get by hitting at the convergence point.  Not only are not you not getting the full hitting power, you're also wasting a lot of rounds by not hitting at the convergence.

It also shouldn't take much ammo either to shoot down a plane, you can easily shoot down a plane with just a few rounds, depending where on the plane you hit.  Aim for the known structural weak points in the air frame, the cockpit and/or engine and you'll see how easy it is to kill with a single burst of .50s.  It takes me around 100 .50 caliber rounds to shoot down another fighter and I still think that takes too much so now I'm concentrating more on aiming for the cockpit instead of my usual aiming point of the wing root and tail section.  The only time I expend a lot of .50s on an airplane is when I'm attacking bombers, usually takes close to 600 rounds or so for the entire formation, a lot less if I use 20mm (which is the only other time I use 20mm) cannons.

In short, it's not the game.

ack-ack
Well, lets see, 38J has 4 50 cals and 1 20mm, pony has 4-6 50 cals, they should be able to do the same thing to a plane if your only using 50's. Trust me, the 50's don't do damage like they should, I'll be lucky if I even hit the pilot in one pass. Bombers I can understand, fighters like a 109 should be down within 20-30 rounds.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 16, 2010, 06:33:43 PM
.50s do the same thing in game if you hit at the convergence points.  There hasn't been any changes to the lethality of the .50 calibers, it didn't 'work fine a few years ago' and now suddenly it's porked now.  The problem is you, not the guns and all the YouTube videos in the world isn't going to prove your right.

ack-ack
If videos shows what 50's did to a fighter within some hits, then AH has them really wrong if you have to hit someone near dozens of times just to take one plane down.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 16, 2010, 06:45:17 PM
Well, lets see, 38J has 4 50 cals and 1 20mm, pony has 4-6 50 cals, they should be able to do the same thing to a plane if your only using 50's. Trust me, the 50's don't do damage like they should, I'll be lucky if I even hit the pilot in one pass. Bombers I can understand, fighters like a 109 should be down within 20-30 rounds.

They do.  Would you like me to post a series of films with 6+ kills using only .50 calibers and still landing with over a 1000 rounds left?

If videos shows what 50's did to a fighter within some hits, then AH has them really wrong if you have to hit someone near dozens of times just to take one plane down.

The reason why it's taking you a lot of rounds to kill something with .50 cals is your own gunnery.  It's not the game, I don't know how many times myself or others have to tell you this.  You have not provided one single bit of evidence to show how the .50 cals work but if you were to take the time and search the forums, you'll see how this issue has already been addressed and proven that there is nothing wrong with the .50s.

Your problem is:
1)  You are not hitting at the convergence point
2)  You are not hitting vital areas on the plane (aim for structural weak points (i.e. wing root, tail section), engine, and/or cockpit))
3)  You are not firing at a plane at a slight angle when approaching from a six.  You will hit with less rounds and do less damage from a pure six position, off set your approach where you come in at an angle to their six position, you'll have more of the fuselage to hit with your rounds, increasing the likelihood of scoring a critical hit.


Once you get over your hubris and realize that problem isn't with the game, you'll see a dramatic improvement in your abilities.  If you don't, you'll never improve beyond the level you're already at and you'll continue to make posts with incorrect assertions on how the game is broken.

ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Motherland on July 16, 2010, 06:51:28 PM
Both are extremly different, 50 cal actually does something in this video then what they do in AH.
You're right, in that video none of the planes broke up structurally despite being hit consistently from ~100 yards. It seems that the .50 cal is overmodeled.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 16, 2010, 07:39:18 PM
In addition, THRASH99 isn't taking into account the damage animations the game uses when comparing the video to the game.  The damage caused by the .50 calibers in game isn't shown graphically like it is in the real world video but that in no way means that the .50 caliber is "underpowered" and incorrectly modeled.

ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: 1carbine on July 17, 2010, 12:08:02 AM
Thats the 75mm HE cannon on the B-25H
He said openers not incinerators  :devil
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Larry on July 17, 2010, 02:37:36 AM
Well, lets see, 38J has 4 50 cals and 1 20mm, pony has 4-6 50 cals, they should be able to do the same thing to a plane if your only using 50's. Trust me, the 50's don't do damage like they should, I'll be lucky if I even hit the pilot in one pass. Bombers I can understand, fighters like a 109 should be down within 20-30 rounds.


Last few months I played I flew the A-20 almost exclusively and had absolutely no problem taking down planes with one pass. In fact the first few times I laughed because it seemed so easy. As akak stated its not the guns its you. If you're flying a pony and not shooting at the distance your convergence is set then you're just wasting ammo.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 17, 2010, 02:43:11 AM

Last few months I played I flew the A-20 almost exclusively and had absolutely no problem taking down planes with one pass. In fact the first few times I laughed because it seemed so easy. As akak stated its not the guns its you. If you're flying a pony and not shooting at the distance your convergence is set then you're just wasting ammo.
Uhhh.... your flying something that has 8 50 cals and can obliterate anything that comes in its path. We're talking about 4, if your seeing a crap load of hit sprites on the aircraft and it's not doing anything, how can it be you? :huh Since ack is saying that he has no problem shooting people down with the 50's on his 38, what I want to know, is what's the difference between the 50's on the 51 and 38? If they're the same, why don't they act the same? Now if ack is telling me that I never prove anything right, I'd like to see some videos of him in a 51 and 38 and you tell me how many hits it takes to kill a fighter. Plus, it doesn't matter where you place the bullets on the plane, its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane. If you post up pictures, that really tells me nothing and doesn't show me much, what I need to see are some videos that show everything that's happening.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 17, 2010, 04:28:02 AM
Uhhh.... your flying something that has 8 50 cals and can obliterate anything that comes in its path. We're talking about 4, if your seeing a crap load of hit sprites on the aircraft and it's not doing anything, how can it be you? :huh Since ack is saying that he has no problem shooting people down with the 50's on his 38, what I want to know, is what's the difference between the 50's on the 51 and 38?

There is no difference between the .50 caliber machine guns on the P-38 (any of them), the Hellcat, Wilcat, Corsair, Thunderbolt, Mustang, and any other USAAF/USMC/USN/RAF plane that used .50 caliber machine guns.  You have failed againt to show that there is anything wrong.  We've explained to you repeatedly but for some reason you do not want to accept it and totally ignore it.  Ignore it all you want but it's not going to change the basic truth, it's not the machine gun or the game that is the problem.

Quote
If they're the same, why don't they act the same?

How do they act different? 

Quote
Now if ack is telling me that I never prove anything right, I'd like to see some videos of him in a 51 and 38 and you tell me how many hits it takes to kill a fighter. Plus, it doesn't matter where you place the bullets on the plane, its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane. If you post up pictures, that really tells me nothing and doesn't show me much, what I need to see are some videos that show everything that's happening.

It does matter where you place bullets.  For example, if you're in a P-51B and attacking an IL-2 and aim at the fuselage area, especially around the cockpit area, you're basically wasting bullets as the fuselage armor is going to soak up the .50 cals and the cockpit is also armored.  Not a good place to aim for a quick kill.  However, due to it's construction and the stress the weight from all the armor on the fuselage put on the wing root and tail section, these are structral weak points and takes less rounds to cause critical damage.

Against any plane, aim directly at the cockpit and you'll usually kill the pilot in a single burst.  In bombers, target the engines and they catch fire easily...you get the point.

Quote
its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane

That's a waste of ammo.  Firing at an area where the plane is armored and can absorb more damage is not the best place to aim for when there is a softer area to aim for, it's just common sense. 


Since it is you that is claiming the problem is with the .50 calibers machine guns, it is you that has to provide the proof which you've repeatedly failed to do.  Those videos on YouTube is not evidence and HiTech won't even give them the time of day to watch them.  However, there is a test you can do in game and you can post the results to see.  This can be done offline or online but I would recommend offline so you won't be disturbed while doing these tests or you can go to the TA and do it.

1) Enter the Hanger
2) Pick the P-51B and set the convergence for all guns to 450 yards
3) Take off
4) Bring up the target using the .target command and set the range to 450 yards (.target 450)

Now you'll see a big bullseye target in front of your plane at 450 yards (the convergence point we set earlier)

5) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S for a screenshot
6) Type .target 800 to set the bullseye at 800 yards
7) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S

Notice how the grouping is more spread out than the one at 450 yards?  This is because the rounds are hitting past the convergence point and hitting the target all over in a wider area.  Sure, you're hitting more area but you're not hitting with the same force as you would if you hit in a single concentrated area.  Now for the last part of the test.

8) Set the target to 200 yards (.target 200)
9) Fire all of your guns, note the grouping and press Alt+S

Again, comparing this grouping at 200 yards with the one from 450yds and 800yds, it shows a spread similiar to that of the grouping at 800yds.  This is because instead of hitting past the convergence point, you're hitting the target before the convergence point so the rounds are still spread out in a wider grouping than they would be at the convergence.

Hopefully, after doing these tests you'll realize the importance of hitting at the convergence and then can apply that to your gunnery.


ack-ack

Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Larry on July 17, 2010, 12:08:57 PM
Uhhh.... your flying something that has 8 50 cals and can obliterate anything that comes in its path. We're talking about 4, if your seeing a crap load of hit sprites on the aircraft and it's not doing anything, how can it be you? :huh Since ack is saying that he has no problem shooting people down with the 50's on his 38, what I want to know, is what's the difference between the 50's on the 51 and 38? If they're the same, why don't they act the same? Now if ack is telling me that I never prove anything right, I'd like to see some videos of him in a 51 and 38 and you tell me how many hits it takes to kill a fighter. Plus, it doesn't matter where you place the bullets on the plane, its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane. If you post up pictures, that really tells me nothing and doesn't show me much, what I need to see are some videos that show everything that's happening.


No the A20 has six forward firing machine guns. From what it sounds like all you do is spray the enemy aircraft and expect it to go down instead of concentrating a burst on a single point. What I would like is to see some film of you and one of these instances where you think the enemy should have gone down and didn't or took longer then you would have liked.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: SlapShot on July 19, 2010, 04:06:29 PM
As I stated, I fly .50 cal planes 99% of the time.

Of that 99%, I fly the FM2 90% of the time which only has 4 .50 cals with convergence at 400.

Any plane that I can get guns on from 400 on in ... I have no trouble ripping them to shreds and rather quickly. The other 10% I fly the F6-F with 6 .50 cals also set at 400 and it is almost funny to see how quickly the 6 .50 cals can take apart ANY plane/bomber.

What most people don't understand when using a .50 cal plane is that you cannot fire in short bursts (like when using cannons). When I shifted from a cannon bird to the .50 cal planes, I was having problems taking planes down. I was firing in conservative short bursts expecting cannon results. As soon as I forced myself to hold the trigger down longer when on target, planes started to fall out of the air rather easily.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: sandwich on July 19, 2010, 04:19:56 PM
They do.  Would you like me to post a series of films with 6+ kills using only .50 calibers and still landing with over a 1000 rounds left?

The reason why it's taking you a lot of rounds to kill something with .50 cals is your own gunnery.  It's not the game, I don't know how many times myself or others have to tell you this.  You have not provided one single bit of evidence to show how the .50 cals work but if you were to take the time and search the forums, you'll see how this issue has already been addressed and proven that there is nothing wrong with the .50s.

Your problem is:
1)  You are not hitting at the convergence point
2)  You are not hitting vital areas on the plane (aim for structural weak points (i.e. wing root, tail section), engine, and/or cockpit))
3)  You are not firing at a plane at a slight angle when approaching from a six.  You will hit with less rounds and do less damage from a pure six position, off set your approach where you come in at an angle to their six position, you'll have more of the fuselage to hit with your rounds, increasing the likelihood of scoring a critical hit.


Once you get over your hubris and realize that problem isn't with the game, you'll see a dramatic improvement in your abilities.  If you don't, you'll never improve beyond the level you're already at and you'll continue to make posts with incorrect assertions on how the game is broken.

ack-ack
Can you post some film ack ack?

I always enjoy watching film from someone who knows what theyre doing.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: 321BAR on July 19, 2010, 04:29:08 PM
50 cals are screwed up right now as far as I know. You can be in a pony, hit a fighter over 100 times from a range of 400-600 out and he doesn't flame up or take serious damage like he should. Take a look at AH 50 cal, then take a look at 50 cal gun footage from WWII, here's the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-_cVgKSG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhWelWiqfvI&feature=related

Both are extremly different, 50 cal actually does something in this video then what they do in AH.
i'm sorry but it's just you... although my zeke is my ride, I fly the P51D more often than the zero for good reason. It is a better plane with better guns... the 6 .50s can take anything out if fired correctly. I usually take 3-5 fighters out in a P51D before i go land and rearm. The only reason my K/D in the pony is so low is because i fly the P51 in poor fight situations along with good situations. I'd be the one to up a P51 at a base being attacked by 5 cons because at the time it would only be the best choice for me. But there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the .50 caliber M2 Brownings
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 20, 2010, 12:59:39 PM
i'm sorry but it's just you... although my zeke is my ride, I fly the P51D more often than the zero for good reason. It is a better plane with better guns... the 6 .50s can take anything out if fired correctly. I usually take 3-5 fighters out in a P51D before i go land and rearm. The only reason my K/D in the pony is so low is because i fly the P51 in poor fight situations along with good situations. I'd be the one to up a P51 at a base being attacked by 5 cons because at the time it would only be the best choice for me. But there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the .50 caliber M2 Brownings
Pffft, yeah, it's me alright. Can't be me if I'm lighting a guy up with a load of 50s and there not doing anything  :headscratch: I sure like to know how it's me if the 50's aren't doing anything to the enemy. I set my convergence from 450 to about 550. I don't open fire till about 600 shows up, open fire, tons of hit sprites, and nothing happens within 100 rounds. I don't even see any damage on the plane once I pass him. Go keep wishing for the M-18 bar, sure it'll work sometime or later.  :lol                                            
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 20, 2010, 01:16:57 PM
Pffft, yeah, it's me alright. Can't be me if I'm lighting a guy up with a load of 50s and there not doing anything  :headscratch: I sure like to know how it's me if the 50's aren't doing anything to the enemy. I set my convergence to 450- to about 550. I don't open fire till about 600 shows up, open fire, tons of hit sprites, and nothing happens within 100 rounds. I don't even see any damage on the plane once I pass him. Go keep wishing for the M-18 bar, sure it'll work sometime or later.  :lol                                            

We've explained numerous times what is happening and why but you refuse to listen because to do so would force you to recognize an inconvenient truth which is that the problem isn't with the game.

The part in your comment that I've bolded is the reason why your gunnery skills are so crappy.  You are hitting your target past the convergence point, and as already explained, it's not going to have the same impact force as it would if you were to hit at the convergence point.

If you feel (no matter how incorrect you are) that the .50 caliber machine guns in game are somehow not modeled correctly, why don't you show some data to back up your highly incorrect claims?  So far all of your proof has amounted to a couple of YouTube videos (/snicker) and some of your own personal stories.  To paraphrase the old lady from the Wendy's commercials...Where's the proof?

If you're going to claim that something is broken in the game, the burden of proof is on you to prove that there is something wrong.  You have utterly failed (which a characteristic of your other 'game is broken' threads) to show that the .50 caliber machine guns have any issues.  On the other side of the coin, myself and others have patiently explained to you what is happening and even provided some tips to help your utterly craptastic gunnery skills but you insist on blaming the game instead of realizing the problem is purely with you and only you. 

Until you realize the problem is you, you're just gonna be cannon fodder for me and others.

ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 20, 2010, 01:39:25 PM

 


Since it is you that is claiming the problem is with the .50 calibers machine guns, it is you that has to provide the proof which you've repeatedly failed to do.  Those videos on YouTube is not evidence and HiTech won't even give them the time of day to watch them.  However, there is a test you can do in game and you can post the results to see.  This can be done offline or online but I would recommend offline so you won't be disturbed while doing these tests or you can go to the TA and do it.

1) Enter the Hanger
2) Pick the P-51B and set the convergence for all guns to 450 yards
3) Take off
4) Bring up the target using the .target command and set the range to 450 yards (.target 450)

Now you'll see a big bullseye target in front of your plane at 450 yards (the convergence point we set earlier)

5) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S for a screenshot
6) Type .target 800 to set the bullseye at 800 yards
7) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S

Notice how the grouping is more spread out than the one at 450 yards?  This is because the rounds are hitting past the convergence point and hitting the target all over in a wider area.  Sure, you're hitting more area but you're not hitting with the same force as you would if you hit in a single concentrated area.  Now for the last part of the test.

8) Set the target to 200 yards (.target 200)
9) Fire all of your guns, note the grouping and press Alt+S

Again, comparing this grouping at 200 yards with the one from 450yds and 800yds, it shows a spread similiar to that of the grouping at 800yds.  This is because instead of hitting past the convergence point, you're hitting the target before the convergence point so the rounds are still spread out in a wider grouping than they would be at the convergence.

Hopefully, after doing these tests you'll realize the importance of hitting at the convergence and then can apply that to your gunnery.


ack-ack


I've provided prove time and time again. Youtube or not you still say I failed to show, but yet it sounds like you take a look at it for one second or try to get to point with out reading the whole thing and make up an excuse for the comment you think will be right and prove me wrong. Video or website I gave, shows anything and everything I'm talking about. Did you even see the first video of the 50s when the pilot strafed the oil tanks, I saw about 20-30 rounds at the most go to it and blow it up. In AH it takes more than it should to blow it up, tested it in offline and it was about a 2-3 second burst from 4 50 cals. Another reason I can say the 50s are wrong, I was flying in a pony in the MA, came across a Ki-84, got on his 6, hit him a load of times all over the fuselage, and he didn't catch fire, blow up, or take any damage what so ever (this was about a 2-3 second burst.) As you look in the videos I posted, 50's should as you should know be doing more damage, you should even know that since your flying a 50 cal plane.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 20, 2010, 01:46:28 PM
We've explained numerous times what is happening and why but you refuse to listen because to do so would force you to recognize an inconvenient truth which is that the problem isn't with the game.

The part in your comment that I've bolded is the reason why your gunnery skills are so crappy.  You are hitting your target past the convergence point, and as already explained, it's not going to have the same impact force as it would if you were to hit at the convergence point.

If you feel (no matter how incorrect you are) that the .50 caliber machine guns in game are somehow not modeled correctly, why don't you show some data to back up your highly incorrect claims?  So far all of your proof has amounted to a couple of YouTube videos (/snicker) and some of your own personal stories.  To paraphrase the old lady from the Wendy's commercials...Where's the proof?

If you're going to claim that something is broken in the game, the burden of proof is on you to prove that there is something wrong.  You have utterly failed (which a characteristic of your other 'game is broken' threads) to show that the .50 caliber machine guns have any issues.  On the other side of the coin, myself and others have patiently explained to you what is happening and even provided some tips to help your utterly craptastic gunnery skills but you insist on blaming the game instead of realizing the problem is purely with you and only you. 

Until you realize the problem is you, you're just gonna be cannon fodder for me and others.

ack-ack
Here, since you keep saying I need "prove", just read about the M2 50 cal mg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning_machine_gun Talks about it being used in WWII alot, hopefully this should help
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 20, 2010, 02:15:28 PM
Jeebus...now you're pulling out Wiki as proof.

/face palm


Again, show how the .50 calibers are less than lethal in this game.  Please provide some data (no YouTube or Wiki), I mean actual ballistic reports, etc.


ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 20, 2010, 02:53:45 PM
Did you even see the first video of the 50s when the pilot strafed the oil tanks, I saw about 20-30 rounds at the most go to it and blow it up. In AH it takes more than it should to blow it up, tested it in offline and it was about a 2-3 second burst from 4 50 cals.

Seriously?  You're really going to make me answer that?  The answer is so glaringly obvious that it would feel like I'm insulting your intelligence by pointing out the obvious.

1) You cannot get a reasonable approximation of how many rounds were fired in those videos, 20 to 30 is just a number range you pulled out of thin air to help shore off a sinking point.

2) Comparing the hardness of the oil tanks and the comparable object in AH, the fuel tanks is, well, useless.  You fail to take into account that you're comparing an object in the real world to an object in the game world with hardness settings set for game play reasons and does not in any way reflect the actual structural integrity of the object in real life.  The fuel tanks were strengthened in game about 7-8 years ago to make them more difficult to destroy.



Quote
Another reason I can say the 50s are wrong, I was flying in a pony in the MA, came across a Ki-84, got on his 6, hit him a load of times all over the fuselage, and he didn't catch fire, blow up, or take any damage what so ever (this was about a 2-3 second burst.) As you look in the videos I posted, 50's should as you should know be doing more damage, you should even know that since your flying a 50 cal plane.

All you are describing is someone that has very, very poor fire discipline and is hitting the bandit either beyond or before teh convergence point.  Your description of seeing hits all over the plane just confirms it.  If you were hitting at the convergence, you'd see a smaller, more concentrated impact zone instead of hit sprites all over the plane, which you are not seeing because you're not hitting at the optimal spot. 

Quote
As you look in the videos I posted, 50's should as you should know be doing more damage, you should even know that since your flying a 50 cal plane.

From looking at those videos, I can say that they do seem to be representative of the .50 calibers in game.  The irony of you using those videos is that they actually prove that AH has the .50's down pretty good. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Nemisis on July 20, 2010, 03:08:35 PM
Ack-Ack, to give him his due, its not always possible to get a shot at convergance. Sometimes you have to take what you can get.



Thrash, the .50's aren't nerfed. The P-47 is still able to kill with a good burst. Believe me, I was getting vulched by one yesterday.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: hitech on July 20, 2010, 03:29:52 PM
Trash why don't you post just 1 AH film of your issue. 1 film is worth more words then you can ever speak.

HiTech
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 20, 2010, 05:58:54 PM
Trash why don't you post just 1 AH film of your issue. 1 film is worth more words then you can ever speak.

HiTech
It's thrash, I have films, just don't know how to upload them. My friend WING47 has some films of him in a pony and hitting some planes alot if that'll help too.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 20, 2010, 07:14:28 PM
upload them to a free host like Mediafire and then paste the link in your post.

ack-ack
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Larry on July 20, 2010, 10:36:11 PM
He doesn't have to. I already know what it will show. From the looks of his stats it'll show him spraying all over then when he does hit the enemy it will not be where the convergence is set so he'll get a few hit sprites all over the plane and expect it to go down when it shouldnt.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: THRASH99 on July 20, 2010, 11:57:05 PM
upload them to a free host like Mediafire and then paste the link in your post.

ack-ack
Tried multiple times and it failed to load the videos, just gonna have to send it to you Hitech. It usually loads and is able to send, never have had a problem sending it to the support at HTC.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: SlapShot on July 21, 2010, 10:32:03 AM
I set my convergence from 450 to about 550. I don't open fire till about 600 shows up, open fire, tons of hit sprites, and nothing happens within 100 rounds.    

So what is it ? ... 450 or 550 ? ... or are you setting pairs at different convergence ?

If you are hitting something that far out, and not quite on the optimum convergence, you will need a lot more than 100 rounds ... plus I doubt strongly that you even knew how many rounds you actually fired. I think the 100 amount is only to support your argument.

Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: Soulyss on July 21, 2010, 10:36:22 AM
I'd be happy to take a look at the films and offer any advice and/or explanations that come to mind, just email them to trainers@hitechcreations.com.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: SectorNine50 on July 25, 2010, 03:04:31 PM
The 50's are fine.

I fly the B Pony, it only has 4 50's, and it only takes me one well placed burst to take down a plane.

Shoot closer in, I find that beyond 400 the accuracy is just too low to make it worth while.  I have my convergences at 350, personally.  The only time I shoot outside of 400 is when I'm trying to scare the aircraft into a turn.

You may be hitting the plane with 100 rounds, but if those 100 rounds are spread evenly over the entire airframe, you are going to do zero structural damage to it.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: BnZs on July 25, 2010, 03:38:53 PM
Odd.
Most complain about the .50s being TOO effective in AHII.
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: PropHawk on August 05, 2010, 12:15:59 PM
does anyone notice that out of all the aircraft armament in the game, that the M2 .50 cals seem to make enemies catch fire the most? it happens to me atleast....

thats why i think they should be affectionally known as "candle lighters" :aok :lol
like it, but like Ma Duece better  :aok
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: PropHawk on August 05, 2010, 12:39:42 PM

Last few months I played I flew the A-20 almost exclusively and had absolutely no problem taking down planes with one pass. In fact the first few times I laughed because it seemed so easy. As akak stated its not the guns its you. If you're flying a pony and not shooting at the distance your convergence is set then you're just wasting ammo.
  :uhoh  :pray  :angel: Please dont whip out the greek fire on this but:
any plane with nose mounted guns has much more concentrated firepower at any range
p.s. my convergence is set at 650 for every plane and I can hit fine at distances between 800 and 0
Title: Re: new nickname for browning .50 cals
Post by: BigKev03 on August 09, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
New nickname for the .50 cal????????   Only one name comes to my mind:

THE BIG HURT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :rock


BigKev