Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Ozark on March 06, 2001, 12:31:00 PM
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Well, I'm about to take a leap and try to build a pc. Please take into account that I'm the perfect example of a uber dweeb inside that plastic box. This will be built on a somewhat tight budget at first...but be upgradeable.
3 question to start:
1) Motherboard...I'm will to pay for a good board that will upgradeable from a P-III to start with to a P-IV at a later time. Recommendations please?
2) What kind of case will give an all thumbs pc rookie room to work?
3) Websites or book that would help me get started?
Thanks....Ozark
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Ozark,
1. just get the best CPU motherboard combo you can afford. Many like the AMD Athlon. I think it probably is the best bang for the buck but uses a different case than the pentiums. A P3 case might not be upgradable to a P4. Similar to an AT vs an ATX or AMD capable case.
2. Case, dependant upon CPU and Mboard choices. I refer vertical instead of horizontal cases. The towers take less room in my den.
3. Tom's hardware is a good spot to pick up evaluations and articles on PC hardware. It can be a bit technical but he usually has a synopsis for the articles that explains what he said in it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Good luck on your project. I'll likely do the same soon.
Mav
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Right now AMD's processors are so much cheaper than Intels with same speed I would buy one of those fast "Thunderbird"-cpu's if needed a new comp myself.
Abit or Asus mobo's are usually good choice and some MSI's boards are nice too.
When buying mobo be sure it dont have any integrated video- or audio cards in it.
In hard-disks I guess IBM's GXP is best choice; Its fast(UDMA-100) and silent.
About videocards there's lots of info in this UBB. ATI's Radeon 64 megs or Hercules GeForce2 could be good.
Couple links: http://www.tomshardware.com/ (http://www.tomshardware.com/) http://www.motherboards.org/guides.html (http://www.motherboards.org/guides.html)
Edit:
I'm using a "Pro-Tower" myself; All disks and cd/dvd-roms are installed with rails so theres no need for screwdriver when I'm playing with my hardware. Its also quite big sized so theres plenty of room inside of case for my hands (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 03-06-2001).]
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BTW: After GeForce 3 are in shops (very soon) you might expect GF GTS and Ultra's price go down very fast...
Rumour tells ATI is bringing to markets its new Radeon 2 card after GF3 is out. Radeon's price already came down and with its price now its good bargain(64megs DDR ~190$ here).
Wait few weeks before buying videocard and you might save lots of money (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Just a note:
No matter what mainboard you buy, you will not likely be able to upgrade to the next processor generation with that board. You difinately cannot put a PIV in a PIII board, they use different sockets. More and more, the mainboard and CPU are a package, and you have to upgrade them at the same time.
The best bang for your buck right now, IMHO, is an Athlon Thunderbird. Check this latest price guide: http://www.thetechzone.com/prices.asp?p=1 (http://www.thetechzone.com/prices.asp?p=1) Now, these are the cheapest prices off the web, so expect to pay a bit more than the listed prices for most things from a good local shop.
You want to look at the Athlon's marked "PGA" in the list. Pretty cheap!
If you are tight for cash now, but plan to upgrade in the near future (under 6 months), you can get a Duron 750 for $50, then upgrade to a Thunderbird 1G or something in a few months and use the same motherboard. Still, for under $200 clams you can get a killer 1Ghz Thunderbird. Woo! Snap that puppy onto an Asus A7V mainboard, and you are off to the races.
Be sure not to scrimp on the RAM. I reccomend you buy Micron directly from their direct-sales division at http://www.crucial.com. (http://www.crucial.com.) RAM is incredibly cheap at the moment, so buy the good stuff. A 256 MB stick of 168 Pin SDRAM rated PC133 at CAS2 is what you want. That's around $100 right now, cheaper than it has ever been. http://www.crucial.com./store/ListModule.asp?module=168-pin+DIMM&x=21&y=14#SDRAM,%20PC133 (http://www.crucial.com./store/ListModule.asp?module=168-pin+DIMM&x=21&y=14#SDRAM,%20PC133)
Also, get a 300 Watt good quality power supply and a mid-tower ATX case.
If you want to save money, do it on the optical drives. Don't buy a DVD drive, it's a waste for most folks. Get a cheap CD-ROM drive for now. Worry about CD burners, DVD, and all that crap later, it's not required for a general use and gaming PC.
Video and sound are easy.
Video, get the GeForce 2 MX for the best value (read cheapest), or go for a GeForce 2 Pro or Radeon for mo power (read expensive). Sound, the SoundBlaster Live Value is the only choice. Cheap, good 'nuff said.
For the dirt cheapest and yet pretty good system do the Duron 750, Asus A7v, 128 Megs of Cas2 PC133 Ram, GeForce2 MX, SBLive Value. For a decent value, but higher priced and higher performing system, go with an Athlon 1Ghrz, same mobo, 256 Megs of the same RAM, ATI Radeon, same sound card.
Depends what fits in your budget really, but those are my suggestions. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 03-06-2001).]
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Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'll start with the Thunderbird 1G CPU. I guess the problems most folks had with the Thunderbird was due to having a 250 Watt power supply.
After taking time to think about it, would be cheaper to buy the top quality items the first time around than to upgrade later. Guess I just buy the componts over a 6 week time frame.
Ozark
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Get a Thunderbird and use either the Asus A7v133, Abit Kt7a, or MSI K7 master 2 motherboard. Both of these will allow you to use the newer fast 133 Mhz FSB processors in the future. DEFINATELY spend the extra cash and get an IBM 75GXP series hard drive. They are SO much faster (and even a little quieter) than all other drives on the market. Here's a comparison of mine and the second bar on the chart is the average performance of all the other brands:
(http://www.engr.orst.edu/~bloom/bench.jpg)
As for RAM, buy good stuff. Go to www.crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com) and get some good PC133 (preferably CAS 2). They were even paying free UPS Blue shipping a week ago.
Get a GOOD 300W power supply. Antec, Enermax, and Sparkle Power are all very good supplies and cost only a couple dollars more than the cheap ones.
When dealing with Thunderbirds, get a good heatsink and have a professional mount it. It is possible to crush the die of the processor if it isn't attached properly. (Intel P3 is the EXACT same way.)
Let us know what choices you make and we can tell you step by step how to install it so you will have a 100% stable system. (It's not hard at all.)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Ok folks…this is what I’m looking at:
A7V KT133 MOBO.....................$ 153
AMD Thunderbird 1 GHz, 3D, 256K,
200MHz FSBus speed SocketA
(Retail processor with a cpu fan
and heatsink, and a
3 year warranty)...................$ 179
ATI Radeon 64MB DDR................$ 199
Acer CD-ROM 52x....................$ 39
Micron 256MB SDRAM..PC133..CL=2....$ 94
IBM 75GXP HD.......................$ 174
Sound Blaster Live! MP3+ 5.1.......$ 81
Case 330 watt power supply.........$ 65
Total......$ 984
This is in my budget. I never knew how inexpensive it was to build your own computer. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Last week I was looking at the Dell web site and something like this would be over $2,000!
I'll still need to find a 3.5 floppy drive. However, I have a USB CDRW for backups and a new modem in the box.
Did forget anything?
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New keyboard and mouse (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(Good looking combo you're gonna have!)
I'm using Microsofts optical mouse, Works great and doesn't need cleaning.
Are your modem so called WinModem or hardware modem?
Winmodem is using pc's resources to send/receive data while hardware modems are doing the work by themself and thus giving more cpu-time to games and other programs. If your modem is external then its hardware modem but if its internal, cheap and looks like a somebody just glued couple chips in it then its propably winmodem.
Winmodems works great in normal surfing but hardware-modems are better for gameing (But costs little more).
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"Did forget anything?"
What you doing for a monitor ? (the most expensive component in a system)
IMO spend as much as you can on a monitor, nothing is worse than a poor display
Nice system BTW
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Here's good link too: http://www.anandtech.com/guides.html (http://www.anandtech.com/guides.html)
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Looks like a good setup Oz,
I personally went with the Abit KT7-A Mboard, but there is very little difference between them. Make sure the case you choose is AMD approved.
Yell if you need help, I've built several now & it gets easier each time.
Tomshardware.com is a great resource full of all kinds of info.
The one thing that I do suggest is getting Mboard, proc, & video card & HD in the case, boot up, check your bios. Install windows, then add one peripheral at a time installing drivers & rebooting as needed. Makes troubleshooting a LOT easier if you run into complications.
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OK, I've got 1Ghz Athlon, FOP32 cooler, Abit KT7A and a 300 watts PSU sitting in my room. Going ot put all this together tonight after work - woohoo! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
p.s. Check how many power leads your PSU has got - mine came with 3 - duh! I had to buy splitter cables to power 2xCD and 2xHD + 1xV5. Another thing I've found that the ATX power cable on this PSU is rather short. It's OK for KT7A but I wouldn't be able to use it with my current BX6-2.0 board... (different placement of power connector) It may seem rather small thing but it will screw-up your putting things together...
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Get yourself a good tools and box of screws and open six-pack after pc boots (less pain with good tools).
Remember check all wirings and jumpers in disk-drives and check if you need to buy some new IDE-cables for UDMA-66/100. Usually mobo got one UDMA-33(40wires), one UDMA-100(80wires) and one floppy-disk cable with it in the box.
edit: If someone is going to use w2k in a new mobo with HPT-370 udma-100 controller be sure you'll have un-packed drivers for controller in floppy disk because you'll need them when installing w2k.
Also read the mobo's manual carefully to see if there's need to do some special procedures in bios when installing new os and how to get all out from your system after os installation.
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 03-07-2001).]
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Thank you all! I'm getting pumped to start this project. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Guess I'll go with the Antec (http://www.thetechzone.com/reviews/case/antec/sx830/index.shtml) SX830 Workstation Tower.
I'm still looking around for a 3.5" floppy drive...hehe...never thought that would be hard to find. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I have a very good quality monitor and modem(PCI)not a WinModem for the computer.
Well, guess the only thing left to do is to spend money. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I warn you now...your going to get lots of questions in about 2 week. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<edit> I'm going to stick with Windows 98SE for this project. </edit>
Oz
[This message has been edited by Ozark (edited 03-07-2001).]
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Ozark, get the A7v133 kt133a MB. This will allow you to use the 133 Mhz fsb processors in the future. There are also a few other minor improvements. The cost difference should be minimal and you'll thank me in a year or so.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Ozark Nix the ABIT board, IWILL kk266-R, is the board of choice now among all the test sights. also for $50.00 more you can get the T-Bird 1.2 Gig with a 266 FSB.
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I'd go with the Asus K7V 133a as well. I guess the Iwill would do... but I haven't any experience with their boards, so I hesitate to recommend it.
If you have any troubles, please feel free to drop me an email here: sconrad@hfx.eastlink.ca I'll gladly help if I can. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Oh, and BTW, one more thing. Before you put any PCI or AGP cards in that thing, PLAN their placement. There will be something in the mobo manual that will explain what onboard devices share IRQ's and which slots share IRQ's. It is critical that you ensure your sound card and video card have their own, as well as your modem if possible.
I also can't stress enough how careful you have to be with your heatsink/fan unit. If the clip is loose, falls off, or the HSF isn't mounted exactly right, you WILL fry the chip before you can figure out WTF happened. You can get good HSF units, good thermal paste (Arctic Silver is the best), and CPU spacers to help prevent these problems. If you are responsible for attaching the HSF to the mainboard, be VERY careful. Ideally, get the guys you buy it from to do it for you.
Plycon has good stuff. Their DNS is kinda pooched lately, so the link came back an IP. These are one of the few guys that can supply CPU spacers though. http://216.157.14.244/spacers.htm (http://216.157.14.244/spacers.htm)
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Ozark - I've got the Antec SX-830 Performance case. I bought when I built this computer and it is superb.
The PSU is not AMD apporved, but the two fans included are great, and they snap on to different places in the case.
Not sure on the PSU issue, but some people say it's best to go with an approved supply. This is mainly to do with cooling aspect (placement of PSU fans and grills). I've had no heat problems - 1.2 GHz Athlon, Prophet II Pro 64, 16 Speed DVD-ROM and the Deskstar should produce lots of heat.
The two case fans, GlobalWin Fop-32 and arctic silver thermal paste gives me a CPU temp of 36 deg in Windows idle and 41 under load. Which is well within the operating limits.
Attaching the heatsink to the the CPU was very nerve-wracking. I'd read that the FOP-32 was very hard to attach, but it went on first time with no problems, and didn't take that much muscle. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 03-07-2001).]
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Another good site I was drawn to is http://www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com)
Great setup! Looks to be a killer machine.
Quiet
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Just re-cased last week with the Antec sx-830, great box, almost seconds as a beer cooler (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Shamus