Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TheRapier on July 07, 2010, 07:20:53 PM
-
I'd be interested in people's opinion about the current use of CVs and their puffy ack in regards to Base Captures?
In maps where this is a lot of water, it seems the prevalent tactic is to drive a CV up to a field, park it there primarily for the puffy ack and then grab all the kills you can. At one point we had a base that had 3 cv groups parked around it, making it extended suicide to even try to defend it.
Is this interesting to people? Seems a bit of a misuse of the CVs. It seems to run counter to the idea of having a fight that is interesting.
What do you folks think?
-
yeah CVs came come in way too close to the shore. especially with the ridiculous puffy ack.
-
Good point RT! It would seem an easy fix to limit how close the CVs can come to shore. I doubt very much that any responsible TG commander would bring his vulnerable ships to rock throwing distance of the shore.
-
nvm
self imposed #2,#4 and #13 I think.
-
It doesn't bother me. If it starts to, I sink it. :aok
-
nvm
Was going to point out a couple absolutely brilliant tactics to prevent fleets from coming close to a base but I'll let someone else handle it.
My tactic actually is lacking somewhat in difficulty. An 8K set of B26's, 500lbs. bombs, salvo 4,... sunk.
-
lol thndr
-
Possibly changing SB- shore battery locations up would help. I did see bish try to cap an enemy rook CV last night, with spitfires to funny. :rofl
-
When they drag them that close to a base the old trusty manned gun will sink the entire fleet.
-
My tactic actually is lacking somewhat in difficulty. An 8K set of B26's, 500lbs. bombs, salvo 4,... sunk.
to digress a bit: they flew high alt CAPs over CV groups for a reason Egg... And an 8k set of buffs can easily be dispatched by a wing of 4 F4Us or F6Fs. Sadly, nobody ever thinks to CAP around the CV while their allies are furballing below them
-
What really needs to happen is to make the base flash when the CV gets within a certain distance, or AT LEAST when it starts shelling the base / town. As it is now, you can completely flatten a base with a task group, and never make it flash until you up the LVT to take the maproom. By then all the hangars are down and there is nothing you can do about it.
It's kinda silly that you can drive a task force almost onto the beach, in complete secrecy, but the base flashes for a single PT boat.
-
What really needs to happen is to make the base flash when the CV gets within a certain distance, or AT LEAST when it starts shelling the base / town. As it is now, you can completely flatten a base with a task group, and never make it flash until you up the LVT to take the maproom. By then all the hangars are down and there is nothing you can do about it.
It's kinda silly that you can drive a task force almost onto the beach, in complete secrecy, but the base flashes for a single PT boat.
+1
I'm sure someone woould have seen THE BIG SHIPS approacing the shore.
Make the base flash at 12 miles like for planes. At least 3 miles like for gv's. Run a Jeep up the flag pole.
wrongway
-
Not if they are double super secret big ships! :uhoh
-
I guess creating SAG's (Surface Action Groups) maybe with a CVE attached would be asking too much from the developers? That way the CV's could be limited to deep water like they're supposed to be? Plus, we'd have BB's :)
-
At a lot of bases its entirely possible to drive the CV group very close to shore but due to the limitation of the panning of the shore guns, they can't be hit. Then the puffy ack suppresses all aerial forays against the CV group.
Personally, I feel the puffy ack is exceedingly accurate out to the limits of its range (i.e. no degradation over distance). The way it currently modeled, it automagically targets a plane the moment it breaks 3k. No transit time apparently for these shells, they are just there. It appears that there is a hemisphere of death surrounding the CV group with the flak shells already there invisibly in space and anything that breaks into that sphere is immediately surrounded by flak bursts. Throw in the manned guns and 2 or more CVs in the area and its just not worth the candle. Dying for zero gain isn't a rational path.
It only takes 3 guys with CV command access to suppress the efforts of many on the opposing side. Seems to be a tad imbalanced.
-
3 cvs is a bit much, i would have brought in some 24's low to try and sink 1 or 2, or at least soften them up for the next guy.
-
I'd say often, when the CV's are that close to a base, the fights are low. Obviously defenders don't want to get above 3K and most CV uppers don't get far above it, at least not for long. That just makes bringing in a set of bombers at 8-10k that much easier. If you come in from the base side, it would be hard someone on the CV to even guess you are bombers until you're in someone's icon range. If a CV is too close, it can even limit the CV's ability to turn due to the coast. If there isn't some dedicated fighters running CAP over a CV like that, it's not too hard to get a couple hits on it, if not sink it.
Puffy is pretty unpredictable, I was in a single 234 going 400+ at 15k and didn't see the CV, one blast and I lost an engine. However a set of 17's at 8.5k going 270 doesn't even get a ping going strait over a CV. :rolleyes:
-
Taking off from a different base a bit farther away maybe? I think I was flying in the described area at the time, saw the threes CV groups lined up coming west on the channell. Was alot of bandits, alot of action and since there seemed to be a big push at the base, maybe a good use of the CV groups. I saw the CV groups hit, dar taken out, but I did not notice if any were eventually sunk.
Puffy ack is just a bit too good at targeting in my opinion but I can live with it. The ability of this ack to target you and stay on you untill you are out of range is just a bit too good, but it's cool because it is the same for everyone.
-
I'd say often, when the CV's are that close to a base, the fights are low. Obviously defenders don't want to get above 3K and most CV uppers don't get far above it, at least not for long. That just makes bringing in a set of bombers at 8-10k that much easier. If you come in from the base side, it would be hard someone on the CV to even guess you are bombers until you're in someone's icon range. If a CV is too close, it can even limit the CV's ability to turn due to the coast. If there isn't some dedicated fighters running CAP over a CV like that, it's not too hard to get a couple hits on it, if not sink it.
Puffy is pretty unpredictable, I was in a single 234 going 400+ at 15k and didn't see the CV, one blast and I lost an engine. However a set of 17's at 8.5k going 270 doesn't even get a ping going strait over a CV. :rolleyes:
However the attackers have the awesome advantage of climbing out anywhere within 5 miles of their CV in relative safety because no one wants to get waxed by auto puffy.
-
Taking off from a farther base slows the rate of replenishment of friendly fighters. Eventually the bad guys get the advantage and totally shellack the base and it falls.
In the fight we were in, the closest friendly base was 2 sectors away. The base fell because defenders couldn't get back into fight fast enough or survive long enough to make a good defense. It wouldn't be a big deal if it were humans organizing and coming up with overwhelming force. Its the fact that its robo-gunners mindlessly lobbing shells into a space. With 3 there, even the random rate of hits resulted in most of the defenders being toast.
Successful base defense depends on a triangle of numbers, skill, aircraft quality. Have all three, success is assured. With 2 of the three you can be successful at least part of the time. One of the three and you are losing.
We could let the robots completely play the game but they don't enjoy it as much :). Come to think of it, they don't pay for the experience either :).
-
Pure and simple the CV's are still allowed much to close to shore. Please address this HTC. :pray
-
Why not add a new border around coastal areas that is out say, 10 nm. There could be a blue (or any color) line showing the minimum distance from shore a cv can get. 10 nm would be sufficient IMO.
That being said, I really don't mind the way it is now.
-
Pure and simple the CV's are still allowed much to close to shore. Please address this HTC. :pray
I rarley if ever get hit by the puffy ack, If i do get shot down, it is by someone in the 5 inch guns. besides the puffy ack dosent fire to you get to a certain altitude. (cant rememeber exactly what alt).
Leave the cv's as they are, cant take every bit of fun out of the game.....it will be NOTHING more than the DA.
-
Why not add a new border around coastal areas that is out say, 10 nm. There could be a blue (or any color) line showing the minimum distance from shore a cv can get. 10 nm would be sufficient IMO.
Couldn't that make CV's on a few of our current maps very difficult to employ?
-
Couldn't that make CV's on a few of our current maps very difficult to employ?
I hit way point touches land, all the time but I dont zoom in all the time either. Can be a pain trying to fly and turn the CV at the same time. Most people drive CVs straight up to base and get them killed also. Can we make it where the LVTS have to swim 2 hrs. to make it to shore too?(sarcasm). :rolleyes: Personally I don't fly straight at a CV above 3k and below 10k and not think I'm gonna be shot at. Like the buff boys have said it's easy enough to kill a CV. Can we do away with Lancstukas, I really hate them ? :D
-
I rarley if ever get hit by the puffy ack, If i do get shot down, it is by someone in the 5 inch guns. besides the puffy ack dosent fire to you get to a certain altitude. (cant rememeber exactly what alt).
Leave the cv's as they are, cant take every bit of fun out of the game.....it will be NOTHING more than the DA.
Every bit of the fun? You got to be kidding me. I am not advocating a fighter only zone free of ack, I am asking that CV's stand off to a more realistic distance. They never came this close to shore. Oh wait, they did...when they were docking! :rolleyes:
-
Every bit of the fun? You got to be kidding me. I am not advocating a fighter only zone free of ack, I am asking that CV's stand off to a more realistic distance. They never came this close to shore. Oh wait, they did...when they were docking! :rolleyes:
Realistic, as i have learned in here, is not part of AH2. It is about the promotion of combat.
Scenario 1: Cv at "realistic" distance. Upper from cv flashes extended dar. uppers come and kill cv. No more realistic combat
Scenario 2: Group ups from cv. Uppers from base see where it has upped from due to extended dar. Uppers kill CV. no more realistic combat
Scenario 3: Furball ensues between cv and base and cv'rs never GET to base. CV destroyed.
Scenario 4: I up from cv......ahhh screw it to much bs ill go somewhere else
-
Ahhh haaa.
Another lightbulb.
Uncharted reefs and shoals. Randomly placed along the coast.
You can come unrealistically close to shore... sometimes.
Sink your own CV.
:neener:
wrongway
-
nice :aok
-
I like wrongway's idea but it does require coading and testing which introduce cost. That is of course up to HTC to decide what works for them.
What would seem reasonable and low cost (read use existing coad) is:
1. Limiting the distance that the CV group can approach the shore. Currently the CVs don't go on shore so they must know where land is. This would just extend the "land" area.
2. Introducing a delay in response time for the puffy ack, when enemy plane breaks into the "sphere of death" based on distance from the CV. This simulates the time to aim, fire, and transit time for the shells. At most rudimentary it can be a single delay figure.
3. It would be great if the accuracy of the ack degrades at greater distances, but that might introduce complexity.
-
What really needs to happen is to make the base flash when the CV gets within a certain distance, or AT LEAST when it starts shelling the base / town. As it is now, you can completely flatten a base with a task group, and never make it flash until you up the LVT to take the maproom. By then all the hangars are down and there is nothing you can do about it.
It's kinda silly that you can drive a task force almost onto the beach, in complete secrecy, but the base flashes for a single PT boat.
Since the island and mast are above the 65ft radar floor, the obvious solution is that CVs should show up as a blip on the radar.
-
Since the island and mast are above the 65ft radar floor, the obvious solution is that CVs should show up as a blip on the radar.
Even within gv flash range it never has either which is why a Jeep needs to be hoisted up the flag pole.
wrongway
-
Even within gv flash range it never has either which is why a Jeep needs to be hoisted up the flag pole.
wrongway
Well hoist a pair of Betty's underwear up there. That should give off a big enough dar!
-
Well hoist a pair of Betty's underwear up there. That should give off a big enough dar!
:O :O :lol :lol
-
Maybe HTC needs to create a fleet built around a CVE or two with a more limited plane set and only destroyers for escort. Since those were the CVs that provided the support for ground operations off the beach. Limit their speed to the slower CVE speed too. FM2s and Avengers and maybe a Seafire on the CVE. Smaller size, limited ack defense.
Limit the larger CV groups to 'deeper water" and promote more fleet to fleet combat. If the big carriers want to provide strikes they have to come from further out. If you want your horde of high Corsairs, you have to come from a bit further out.
-
best way would be to have sea in 2 colors, one dark blue where cv can operate , and a light blue where its too shallow for them , would have to do map changes though.
-
My tactic actually is lacking somewhat in difficulty. An 8K set of B26's, 500lbs. bombs, salvo 4,... sunk.
bomb**** :x
-
Could be interesting to have escort carriers with a different plane set. Possibly the "captain" privs could be set lower to give tyros some practice with guiding a group. (not implying that present set of folks have done a good or bad job).
This might result in the CVEs needing to be supported by CV groups or land based air since their plane set would be "less" capable than presumably the fleet carriers.
-
Well with CVE's you'd be limited to F4F's, FM2's, Seafires (maybe) and TBM's. I'm not sure if anything else ever flew off of CVE's except for the odd ferrying flight. I think corsairs deployed off of them during Korea, though.
-
Well with CVE's you'd be limited to F4F's, FM2's, Seafires (maybe) and TBM's. I'm not sure if anything else ever flew off of CVE's except for the odd ferrying flight. I think corsairs deployed off of them during Korea, though.
Zekes and B5Ns - the Japanese had light carriers no bigger than a CVE, although they were faster and employed as light fleet carriers.
CVs get too close to shore, period. The minimum distance they can get from shore should be slightly greater than the maximum range of puffy ack. That would still be plenty close to mount an effective attack.
-
The thing is, if you had a CVE/Surface Action Group that could do inshore bombardment, would you not still have the same problem with puffy ack? A cruiser/destroyer group would still have 5 inchers that could do the same thing that our current TG's do. So the question becomes how do you create a shore bombardment group that doesn't have the capability to ack the base?
You could keep the cruisers with the big CV's and only let them use 8 inchers on target, or if you want to go the CVE route, force the DD's to choose between AP, HE, and AA rounds, and limit the reach of AA fire.
Just thinking out loud,
-Muzzy