Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: olds442 on July 09, 2010, 11:07:36 PM
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ok in 3D modled planes theres two levers that move(singel motor plane such as a P51) ones bigger than the other
one controls MAN presser and the other RPM.now RPM is is how fast the prop is moving MAN is the presser on the manifold how do you change manifold presser without changing RPM.prop pitch????? pls help just want to leran this game
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ok in 3D modled planes theres two levers that move(singel motor plane such as a P51) ones bigger than the other
one controls MAN presser and the other RPM.now RPM is is how fast the prop is moving MAN is the presser on the manifold how do you change manifold presser without changing RPM.prop pitch????? pls help just want to leran this game
Manifold pressure is what most people think of as throttle. Prop pitch setting (RPM) is a cruise speed function that lets you save gas by making the propeller take a bigger bite out of the air while you reduce the throttle (MAP, remember?). For all practical purposes in this game, you want RPM at max setting and adjust your speed with the throttle. If you're in one of the main arenas, where saving gas is important, and you know you're going to just motor along for awhile until you hit the combat zone, go to the E6B function on your menu, check the cruise settings for MAP and RPM, adjust them and save gas (you can see how much you save in the E6B menu).
- oldman
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thank you verey much for clering this up
A BIG :salute :salute :salute
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Manifold pressure is changed by using the + - keys(default) on numbers pad.
<S> Oz
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Manifold pressure is changed by using the + - keys(default) on numbers pad.
<S> Oz
I KNOW THIS i was trying to figer out prop pitch
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If you find yourself a glider and the engine isn't frozen reduce RPM to minimum. That allows the prop to windmill freely and greatly increases your glide distance.
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what about fixed prop planes
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Easiest way to think of it is a manual transmission car. What gear you are in will determine what rpm at what speed. Manifold pressure, is an indication of engine load or how much you open the throttle on a car. So between the two variables you can have all sorts of rpm (gear) and manifold pressures (throttle %) combinations. Obviously this is simplified in a car since most don't have various turbo and supercharger settings that we can change while driving, but for the basic concept it works.
:salute
BigRat
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Easiest way to think of it is a manual transmission car. What gear you are in will determine what rpm at what speed. Manifold pressure, is an indication of engine load or how much you open the throttle on a car. So between the two variables you can have all sorts of rpm (gear) and manifold pressures (throttle %) combinations. Obviously this is simplified in a car since most don't have various turbo and supercharger settings that we can change while driving, but for the basic concept it works.
:salute
BigRat
i ahve one guys saying i changes prop picth you saying its just fuel thing
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i ahve one guys saying i changes prop picth you saying its just fuel thing
Actually we are saying the same thing. Prop pitch = transmission gear ratio, in my example and Manifold pressure is equal to Throttle % in my example. We are saying the same thing, I was just trying to put it into an example of something most can relate more closely to. I actually own a pretty good example that I can use. I own a supercharged manual transmission corvette. Lets say I'm cruising in 4th gear at 2000 rpm manifold pressure is 10" of vacuum. I run across somebody I want to pass but I'm not in a hurry so I leave it in 4th gear. I increase my throttle % which increases my manifold pressure to 2 psi. Obviously while accellerating in gear my rpm's will increase with speed. If I wanted to maintain the 2000 rpm I'd have to upshift (change prop pitch) to 5th gear to drop the rpm back down. Most cars don't have a constantly variable gear ratio so I can't maintain an exact RPM at a changing load in my car, I can try and keep it close by changing gears. Same basic idea for max power and max cruise, at max power I want as much boost as I can get (7.5 psi in my case), at maximum power rpm (6250 in my case). Max cruise I want as much vacuum (least manifold pressure) as I can get at as low an rpm that the engine combination will allow. Hope that clears it up.
:salute
BigRat
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Maybe a CFI would be best to answer. Someone rated for a vari-prop model or even perhaps a old warbird. I remember trying to get a F14 rated combat jock try to explain a Cessna...didn't work out well. Where's CPT Dell? hehe :rock
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Maybe a CFI would be best to answer. Someone rated for a vari-prop model or even perhaps a old warbird. I remember trying to get a F14 rated combat jock try to explain a Cessna...didn't work out well. Where's CPT Dell? hehe :rock
I...uh...I have a high performance endorsement and am part-owner of a Piper Saratoga turbo...
- oldman
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Um Dud...
Old and BigRat know what they are talking about. When they speak I listen. I'd advise you to do the same.
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Cha Ching! Then perhaps you can explain. ACP know's a crap ton of info about flight, help a aeronautical engineer in training out.
I never meant to degrade anyones answer.
Oh and by the way, a lil info about yourself may help in your sig. I have no idea that OldMan has a HP endorsement...is he also a CFI? Dichotomy you can STFU since you are "just returning".
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ok dose every plane in AH have a prop that can change picth
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i ahve one guys saying i changes prop picth you saying its just fuel thing
The statements are all part of a whole. Let's see if we can pull it all together here.
For constant-speed propellers another way of describing manifold pressure and RPM control is this: manifold pressure controls the amount of power that is "available" to spin the prop while RPM/prop pitch controls the amount of power "required" to spin the prop. The throttle (MAP) controls the amount of air that can be sucked in by the pistons and thus the amount of air available to the engine. RPM controls the speed at which the crankshaft can spin and thus how fast the pistons are allowed to pump. Along with fuel mixture (which is automatic in AH) these three controls determine the power output of the engine.
For a prop in constant speed operation there isn't a direct RPM control for the actual engine shaft. RPM's are controlled via the propeller governor that senses how fast the shaft is spinning and then adjusts the propeller pitch that either creates more force or less force for the engine to oppose. The force created by the prop varies with the amount of "lift" (thrust) that it is producing. The higher the aoa of the propeller blade, the more lift created. The more the lift, the greater the induced drag thus the more force needed to spin the prop. The opposite is also true. Using these forces the prop governor then maintains the engine RPM at the set speed by adjusting blade aoa/pitch as the shaft overspeeds or underspeeds the desired RPM.
What does have to do with aircraft performance? It's related to the amount of thrust and power available to propel the airplane. In flight, the efficiency of the propeller to convert engine power into usable power will vary by the propeller advance ratio, J.
J = airspeed / prop_rotational_speed * prop_diameter
For a fixed pitch propeller max efficiency of a propeller occurs at a specific value of J (specific airspeed & rpm). Outside of these values the efficiency drops. With constant speed propellers we're trying to maximize propeller efficiency over a range of airspeeds thus the maximum amount of power converted from the engine to flight. The way this is done is setting the RPM constant and then automatically varying the propeller aoa with varying airspeed to maintain a J value that maximizes propeller efficiency.
How all this is related to fuel consumption is that the fuel consumption of the engine can be maximized by adjusting MAP (power available) and RPM (power required) so that power output of the engine is at a setting most economic for fuel consumption.
For a fixed pitch propeller, RPM is completely tied to MAP/throttle setting of the engine. All AH aircraft are constant-speed props which means adjusting the RPM means adjustment of the blade pitch (aoa).
Hope that enlightens the topic!
Tango
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The statements are all part of a whole. Let's see if we can pull it all together here.
For constant-speed propellers another way of describing manifold pressure and RPM control is this: manifold pressure controls the amount of power that is "available" to spin the prop while RPM/prop pitch controls the amount of power "required" to spin the prop. The throttle (MAP) controls the amount of air that can be sucked in by the pistons and thus the amount of air available to the engine. RPM controls the speed at which the crankshaft can spin and thus how fast the pistons are allowed to pump. Along with fuel mixture (which is automatic in AH) these three controls determine the power output of the engine.
For a prop in constant speed operation there isn't a direct RPM control for the actual engine shaft. RPM's are controlled via the propeller governor that senses how fast the shaft is spinning and then adjusts the propeller pitch that either creates more force or less force for the engine to oppose. The force created by the prop varies with the amount of "lift" (thrust) that it is producing. The higher the aoa of the propeller blade, the more lift created. The more the lift, the greater the induced drag thus the more force needed to spin the prop. The opposite is also true. Using these forces the prop governor then maintains the engine RPM at the set speed by adjusting blade aoa/pitch as the shaft overspeeds or underspeeds the desired RPM.
What does have to do with aircraft performance? It's related to the amount of thrust and power available to propel the airplane. In flight, the efficiency of the propeller to convert engine power into usable power will vary by the propeller advance ratio, J.
J = airspeed / prop_rotational_speed * prop_diameter
For a fixed pitch propeller max efficiency of a propeller occurs at a specific value of J (specific airspeed & rpm). Outside of these values the efficiency drops. With constant speed propellers we're trying to maximize propeller efficiency over a range of airspeeds thus the maximum amount of power converted from the engine to flight. The way this is done is setting the RPM constant and then automatically varying the propeller aoa with varying airspeed to maintain a J value that maximizes propeller efficiency.
How all this is related to fuel consumption is that the fuel consumption of the engine can be maximized by adjusting MAP (power available) and RPM (power required) so that power output of the engine is at a setting most economic for fuel consumption.
For a fixed pitch propeller, RPM is completely tied to MAP/throttle setting of the engine. All AH aircraft are constant-speed props which means adjusting the RPM means adjustment of the blade pitch (aoa).
Hope that enlightens the topic!
Tango
this is what i was looking for thanks
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Nice writeup Tango :aok,but you forgot we have fixed props on the WW1 birds.
Turn off the govener and watch the prop over spin the engine in a dive.
:salute
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Manifold ( ie... Throttle ) increase : use the = key
Manifold ( ie... Throttle ) decrease: use the - key
RPM ( prop Pitch ) increase : use the NumPad + key
RPM ( prop Pitch ) decrease : use the NumPad - key
unless you want to go in and custom keymap these features to your HOTAS system.......
also, hitting the P key ( WEP ) will over ride the RPM setting and put it back to Full RPM
Cha Ching! Then perhaps you can explain. ACP know's a crap ton of info about flight, help a aeronautical engineer in training out.
I never meant to degrade anyones answer.
Oh and by the way, a lil info about yourself may help in your sig. I have no idea that OldMan has a HP endorsement...is he also a CFI? Dichotomy you can STFU since you are "just returning".
dud, very surprised to see that great post by you about 10 Things For Noob's to practice, then to read this thread and see your reply to Dichotomy
you might not of known about Oldman, but same can be said for ACP and what you say he knows.... he doesn't have it in his sig either :headscratch: just don't understand why the abbreviated comment.......
nice write up dtango :cheers:
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Nice writeup Tango :aok,but you forgot we have fixed props on the WW1 birds.
Turn off the govener and watch the prop over spin the engine in a dive.
:salute
Very true. I never fly in WW1 so it's out of sight, out of mind ;).
Tango
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dtango,
Nice write up :aok I was trying to put it in automotive terms since that's what I know best (doesn't transfer exactly), but you explained it great :D
:salute
BigRat
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Manifold pressure is changed by using the + - keys(default) on numbers pad.
<S> Oz
I think you meant to say that KP +/- adjusts RPM and throttle adjusts manifold pressure.
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Yes, my bad
<S> Oz
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Yes, my bad
<S> Oz
I missed page 2 when I replied. :D
I see TC already covered that. :aok
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Real planes would have 3 controls...manifold, rpm, and pitch. In AH, rpm's/pitch are tied together? Is that right?
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Real planes would have 3 controls...manifold, rpm, and pitch. In AH, rpm's/pitch are tied together? Is that right?
That's right.
First I've heard that there might be separate controls for rpm and pitch on a constant speed prop. How does that work?
- oldman
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Real planes would have 3 controls...manifold, rpm, and pitch. In AH, rpm's/pitch are tied together? Is that right?
you for got fuel mixture :neener:
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you for got fuel mixture :neener:
Right. From left to right, throttle (MAP), prop (RPM) and mixture (lean the sucker out).
- oldman
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just wondering why dont we have to change fuel mixtuer in AH it would be nice if this is added :pray
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just wondering why dont we have to change fuel mixtuer in AH it would be nice if this is added :pray
Trust me, you don't want to revisit THAT thread :O It even brought HT off the couch
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ok in 3D modled planes theres two levers that move(singel motor plane such as a P51) ones bigger than the other
one controls MAN presser and the other RPM.now RPM is is how fast the prop is moving MAN is the presser on the manifold how do you change manifold presser without changing RPM.prop pitch????? pls help just want to leran this game
In this arcade game presented by Hitech creations there is seldom a need to alter the Manifold or RPM settings on any aircraft engine. As overheating or other types of damage associated with the misuse or abuse of the engine is not modeled into the game except when the oil or radiator fluid leak out.
My dad who flew P47’s and P51’s during WWII told me about engine problems that guys had caused by supper cooling the engine during dives and overheating problems because of poor cockpit management of cowling flaps during prolonged climb outs during the July and August hot summer months.
The actual airplane could not just be run flat out without having some heat related problems. But in Aces High it’s never a problem and never will be.
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In this arcade game presented by Hitech creations there is seldom a need to alter the Manifold or RPM settings on any aircraft engine. As overheating or other types of damage associated with the misuse or abuse of the engine is not modeled into the game except when the oil or radiator fluid leak out.
In this arcade game presented by Hitech Creations there is times when throttling back ( reducing manifold pressure ), and changing prop pitch ( adjusting RPM ) will be needed to reserve fuel, to prolong flight / stay on station. this is more important in the Main arena's where fuel burn is set at 2.0 x's ..but is also just as important in special events like Scenario's and FSO's even though fuel burn is most times set at 1.0 x's......
when one's plane is damaged and is leaking fuel they can change their tanks and run the fuel out manually to keep the plane balanced or if leaking oil, leaking water..... one can cycle their engine on /off to keep the plane from over heating ( temp going in to the red & pegged ) and prolong their flight / distance before the engine siezes up and stops
adjusting manifold pressure, adjusting RPM, watching the temp guage when engine is damaged...... is very much important in this Arcade game created by hitech Creations.....
hope this helps...
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TC beat me to it, There is actually rarely a flight that goes by for me in the MA's where I don't use some combination of RPM control and throttle/manifold pressure to extend my time aloft. My current plane of choice the 38G is a little on the sluggish side when loaded full of fuel, as a result I typically take off with 50% and some drop tanks, but my loiter time is pretty limited once the DT's come off and I frequently reduce RPM and throttle any time I don't need maximum power, ie pretty much anytime I'm not engaged.
In scenarios I can think of specific examples where we would have lost whole squadrons of planes if they hadn't carefully marshaled their fuel. I believe in one frame of DSG Delirium landed after a marathon flight with something like 6 gallons left after taking off with over 700 gallons on board.
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In this arcade game presented by Hitech Creations there is times when throttling back ( reducing manifold pressure ), and changing prop pitch ( adjusting RPM ) will be needed to reserve fuel, to prolong flight / stay on station. this is more important in the Main arena's where fuel burn is set at 2.0 x's ..but is also just as important in special events like Scenario's and FSO's even though fuel burn is most times set at 1.0 x's......
A valid point for extending flight time I grant you, however, current game play strategy seldom requires any prolonged cap type missions. Seldom does anyone travel more then 30 miles and carries two drop tanks.
when one's plane is damaged and is leaking fuel they can change their tanks and run the fuel out manually to keep the plane balanced or if leaking oil, leaking water..... one can cycle their engine on /off to keep the plane from over heating ( temp going in to the red & pegged ) and prolong their flight / distance before the engine siezes up and stops
I doubt that is in combat pilots cycled their engine on/off. What is the airspeed needed to keep a jug prop wind milling? Or spit or Any aircraft that didn’t have a starter and they used a crank or cartridge to turn the engine over for starting. What does a wind milling prop do to the glide? But in this arcade game its fine. My dad told me he attacked a ground target in a P47, came up with a windshield full of oil , he and his wingman had a discussion about what to do as he flew the 130 miles back to England and never touched the Prop or manifold, his feeling was it was running so leave it alone. He watched his oil gages go off the scale but never touched anything except to open his cowl flaps all the way. Once he had the field made he cut the Mag off and landed .
adjusting manifold pressure, adjusting RPM, watching the temp guage when engine is damaged...... is very much important in this Arcade game created by hitech Creations.....
Except in this game where everyone just continues at full power with no lose of performance until the engine finally does stop turning.
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TC beat me to it, There is actually rarely a flight that goes by for me in the MA's where I don't use some combination of RPM control and throttle/manifold pressure to extend my time aloft. My current plane of choice the 38G is a little on the sluggish side when loaded full of fuel, as a result I typically take off with 50% and some drop tanks, but my loiter time is pretty limited once the DT's come off and I frequently reduce RPM and throttle any time I don't need maximum power, ie pretty much anytime I'm not engaged.
In scenarios I can think of specific examples where we would have lost whole squadrons of planes if they hadn't carefully marshaled their fuel. I believe in one frame of DSG Delirium landed after a marathon flight with something like 6 gallons left after taking off with over 700 gallons on board.
My point being that in this arcade game there is no need to adjust rpm or manifold . It is not required. The abuse of an engine is not modeled into the game. In real life they would never have run an engine all out for the entire flight. As just about everyone does in this game.
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A valid point for extending flight time I grant you, however, current game play strategy seldom requires any prolonged cap type missions. Seldom does anyone travel more then 30 miles and carries two drop tanks.
I doubt that is in combat pilots cycled their engine on/off. What is the airspeed needed to keep a jug prop wind milling? Or spit or Any aircraft that didn’t have a starter and they used a crank or cartridge to turn the engine over for starting. What does a wind milling prop do to the glide? But in this arcade game its fine. My dad told me he attacked a ground target in a P47, came up with a windshield full of oil , he and his wingman had a discussion about what to do as he flew the 130 miles back to England and never touched the Prop or manifold, his feeling was it was running so leave it alone. He watched his oil gages go off the scale but never touched anything except to open his cowl flaps all the way. Once he had the field made he cut the Mag off and landed .
Except in this game where everyone just continues at full power with no lose of performance until the engine finally does stop turning.
wind milling the prop prolongs ones glide in some planes
I have played for nearly 10 years and taught in this game and others for to many years to count....
for those that rather run around WOT all the time even when damaged regardless of consequence, so be it. but don't give out misleading information saying certain things does not matter when in truth it does
If you don't know then ask, if you think you know but what you think or what you think you know is not the truth, be ready for people to correct misleading information.... it is nothing more than correcting a misinforming post
If I was to post something and it be incorrect, I would most certainly want others to correct any & all misguiding information I may have posted with welcome & opened arms....
I am not going to argue this point anymore....
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My point being that in this arcade game there is no need to adjust rpm or manifold . It is not required. The abuse of an engine is not modeled into the game. In real life they would never have run an engine all out for the entire flight. As just about everyone does in this game.
And those that do, generally get their butts handed to them over and over by those who work the throttle and easily outmaneuver them in similar planes.
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wind milling the prop prolongs ones glide in some planes
I have played for nearly 10 years and taught in this game and others for to many years to count....
for those that rather run around WOT all the time even when damaged regardless of consequence, so be it. but don't give out misleading information saying certain things does not matter when in truth it does
If you don't know then ask, if you think you know but what you think or what you think you know is not the truth, be ready for people to correct misleading information.... it is nothing more than correcting a misinforming post
If I was to post something and it be incorrect, I would most certainly want others to correct any & all misguiding information I may have posted with welcome & opened arms....
I am not going to argue this point anymore....
Perhaps in the cartoon world a wind milling porp prolongs glide, but not in real life and that's my point, it's gaming the game.
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And those that do, generally get their butts handed to them over and over by those who work the throttle and easily outmaneuver them in similar planes.
You have missed the point.
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You have missed the point.
guess I missed it too........
are we talking about what your Daddy told you? in how he never turned his motor off and glided with an oil leak? he just adjusted the cowl flaps? guess his oil leak was minor..... maybe he never had a Big Oil Leak, or medium, or inbetween? people can have an oil leak and it be minor in game, and fly forever, people can have a medium sized oil leak and still fly 3 or 4 sectors. people can have a major oil leak and not make it one sector...
have you flown many planes that ran out of fuel and had the chance in real life to check and see whether changing the Prop aoa would increase or decrease your Glide slope?
where do you come up with "gaming the game" with anything I have posted in this thread?
please provide me with some solid facts that thwart anything I have posted, or just let it go......
this may not be MS flight simulaotr 2000/2004/X etc or IL2 or AW or WB or Targetware........ but everything I have posted so far has nothing to do with "gaming the game"... it seems that the topic of the OP is trying to be changed..... I am only correcting what has been posted as incorrect...
if I am incorrect, please show me, and correct me. and I will concede the fact that I made a mistake, but in typing this, I ask that you do the same
Thank you, :cheers:
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You have missed the point.
I have not missed the point. Your point apparently is to say there is no complex engine management in AH2 - that much is true. The controls we DO have (manifold pressure and RPM) are there for a good reason. The fact that so many people choose to ignore them points to them not knowing how or why to use them, or them just not caring. In either case, you are making more of this than it needs.
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.squelch Traveler
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I have not missed the point. Your point apparently is to say there is no complex engine management in AH2 - that much is true. The controls we DO have (manifold pressure and RPM) are there for a good reason. The fact that so many people choose to ignore them points to them not knowing how or why to use them, or them just not caring. In either case, you are making more of this than it needs.
Yes , that was my point , also that damaged engines continue to produce 100% power until they die. The fact that players are allowed to run at full power with out the engines overheating is more like an arcade game then a simulations of AirCombat .
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have you flown many planes that ran out of fuel and had the chance in real life to check and see whether changing the Prop aoa would increase or decrease your Glide slope?
where do you come up with "gaming the game" with anything I have posted in this thread?
I think your statement about the engine on/off to prevent over heating is gaming the game. Not all aircraft in real life had an electronic starter. But all aircraft in AH do. That to me is gamy.
please provide me with some solid facts that thwart anything I have posted, or just let it go......
I think either NASA or NTSB released some statistics back in the late 60’s or 70’s , have to search on Wind milling props. If you lost an engine was it better to glide with the prop stopped or wind milling. They found that the wind milling prop slowed the aircrafts forward speed and required a steeper dive angle to sustain the airspeed. The glide distance was reduced. I hold a CFII, ASEL, AMEL, Glider , I hold an ATP and type ratings in 727-400. No, I never ran out of gas. But when my Dad taught me to fly in a our old J3 he cut the fuel off to show me just how to do an airstart , just what it would take to get the prop from dead still to wind milling.
this may not be MS flight simulaotr 2000/2004/X etc or IL2 or AW or WB or Targetware........ but everything I have posted so far has nothing to do with "gaming the game"... it seems that the topic of the OP is trying to be changed..... I am only correcting what has been posted as incorrect...
I was only posting to the OP that any concern about manifold and RPM really didn’t matter in this arcade game environment . That engine damage from miss use of the manifold or RPM was not modeled into the game.
if I am incorrect, please show me, and correct me. and I will concede the fact that I made a mistake, but in typing this, I ask that you do the same
Everything you said I’m sure is true that turning the engine off and on will extend the life of your over heating engine in this arcade environment. I just have my doubts that it was done that way in WWII.
Yes your air time will be extended if you burn less fuel per hour, it will last longer. My point was that engines were not designed to be run flat out at 100% power setting . Engines did fail not that many, but many did overheat. The engine model in AH is well, gammy.
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If you lost an engine was it better to glide with the prop stopped or wind milling. They found that the wind milling prop slowed the aircrafts forward speed and required a steeper dive angle to sustain the airspeed. The glide distance was reduced. I hold a CFII, ASEL, AMEL, Glider , I hold an ATP and type ratings in 727-400. No, I never ran out of gas. But when my Dad taught me to fly in a our old J3 he cut the fuel off to show me just how to do an airstart , just what it would take to get the prop from dead still to wind milling.
let me clear this up a bit.. if your engine is out and just windmilling and biting a larger chunk of air, then yes it will reduce your glide verses a stopped prop... reducing the RPM/aoa prop pitch and reducing the props drag on a windmilling prop will extend the Glide slope in aces high as well as in Real Life... is this not correct? If I am wrong I would like to see some facts.....
I apologize, I did not mean to make it look like I was taking a popshot at you & your Father, I wish I had a chance to know him and hear his History & war Storys, you are very fortunate...
I have no doubt that if a pilot had an oil leak or maybe even a water leak and was near the point of "what can I do ?" if he thought about it, he may have toggled his engine on & off. if the engine isn't running, then it is not pumping oil or water.. therefore it is not pushing it out as fast if at all...... all depending on the size of the leak and where the leak is..... just as you have acknowledged, your father had taught you how to restart a stopped prop or wind milling prop....... yes we fly in a Flight simulating game so we have the only use of toggling a E key to start & stop our engine..... we do not have the immersion of charges, mags, APU's, etc......
but heck we don't have the ability to experience the G's by feel either ..... their are some compromises we do endure...... I just don't see it as gaming the game....... spawn camping, vulching noobs or 2nd accounts, etc stuff like that is gaming the game......
ok that's all
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1. Not everyone takes off from the nearest field to the fight and flies one way 10 miles to die at the bottom of the furball. My long time personal habit is to land every sortie I can and I rarely takeoff at the closest field to the fight. Part of the fun for me and my squad is the formation climb out bull session. Fuel management is a concern on every sortie in my squad because we rarely have sorties under 30 minutes long.
2. Windmilling versus feathered. Most single engine aircraft did not have the ability to align the prop blades with the wind (also known as "feathering") but if they have controllable pitch propeller then choosing maximum pitch to get the blades as close to the wind as possible would reduce the drag produced by the windmilling prop.
Many of the feathering systems on WWII aircraft were one shot deals. You could not get the engine out of feather once it was there. I once had to clamber out of my WWII era twin tail dragger and use the un-feather paddle (a long stick with a prop shaped hole in it) to horse a prop out of feather after I was too slow on the trigger during the pre takeoff feather check. The airliner behind me had to wait and I'm sure he was laughing while cursing my name for causing the delay.
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I've never flown an aircraft IRL but...
In AH, if you set RPM to minimum you maximize how far you can glide without engine power. Conversely, while gliding in for an unpowered landing you may want to put the RPMs back to max to lessen how far you glide if you think you might overshoot the runway, so be aware of that. It works like a speed brake in that regard.
If you have a radiator hit, you can greatly extend how far you can fly by not letting the engine overheat and blow, by cycling the engine off (not idled, but off) before the temperature goes max red. When you turn the engine off, also turn the RPMs to minimum so you glide further. After the engine has cooled down, you can turn the engine back on while simultaneously turning the RPMs back to full. You may have to cycle every few seconds, it can be a lot of work. Depending on your aircraft you can actually gain more altitude than you lose while doing this, but in the worst case you can extend how far you glide and maybe make it back to a base for a landing. Thanks to AH Trainer Rolex for teaching the training squad this technique.
If you have an oil hit, the oil for some reason stops leaking if you have the engine off (not idled, but off). So my strategy is usually to head back towards base at full WEP in a shallow climb until the oil is almost gone. Then glide at minimum RPM setting as far as possible. The last bit of oil will stay in the engine in case I can't glide far enough, or if I'm going to overshoot the base and need some powered flight to make another pass, or if some knit or bish tries to shoot me down and I need powered flight to make an evasive move, etc. In any case its almost always better to save the last bit of oil than let the engine lock up.
And finally, the engine settings are useful for extending the flight time. This could be when you want to loiter over an area, you're in a scenario and you know your fuel won't last if you use full settings the entire time, or you're almost out of gas (fuel tank hit or maybe you misjudged how long you could stay at the fight) and you want to make it back to base.
Of course people use throttle for other things, but usually aren't adjusting the RPMs in a dogfight that I'm aware of. As a side note, in the scenario I did, we were in A6M2s and we only adjusted the throttle to save fuel, not the RPMs. I think it would have been better fuel economy to adjust both but I just followed my instructions and it worked out.
Edit: Two important things I forgot.
The "E6B" on the clipboard tells you what the max cruise, WEP, and "military" aka full non-wep power settings are, and usually a setting or two in between max cruise and full power. If you want to maximize your fuel efficiency, set the RPMs and manifold pressure (throttle) to the max cruise settings. Technically this might not be the absolute best setting, but its close and you won't find better without experimenting on your own. Obviously the in-between settings sacrifice some fuel efficiency for better performance.
And your manifold pressure (throttle) and RPMs can change from what you set them at when you change altitude, so if you're trying to save some gas while in a climb or dive, keep an eye on them if they're not set to full, and adjust as necessary. This might not be strictly correct, but unless you're willing to research best fuel settings at every altitude, its the best we've got. They're also safe to ignore when they're set to full. Also note that WEP in some aircraft doesn't get you anything at certain altitudes. You can tell by looking at the aircraft's performance charts, or by looking at the manifold pressure. If it doesn't move when you turn on WEP, its not doing anything for you and you can leave WEP off at that altitude so you have it when you need it.
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The throttle (MAP) controls the amount of air that can be sucked in by the pistons and thus the amount of air available to the engine.
This statement is just not correct. On airplanes that are equipped with a constant-speed propeller, power output is controlled by the throttle and indicated by a manifold pressure gauge. The gauge measures the absolute pressure of the fuel/air mixture inside the intake manifold and is more correctly a measure of manifold absolute pressure (MAP). At a constant r.p.m. and altitude, the amount of power produced is directly related to the fuel/air flow being delivered to the combustion chamber. As you increase the throttle setting, more fuel and air is flowing to the engine; therefore, MAP increases. When the engine is not running, the manifold pressure gauge indicates ambient air pressure (i.e., 29.92 in. Hg). When the engine is started, the manifold pressure indication will decrease to a value less than ambient pressure (i.e., idle at 12 in. Hg). Correspondingly, engine failure or power loss is indicated on the manifold gauge as an increase in manifold pressure to a value corresponding to the ambient air pressure at the altitude where the failure occurred.
The manifold pressure gauge is color-coded to indicate the engine's operating range. The face of the manifold pressure gauge contains a green arc to show the normal operating range, and a red radial line to indicate the upper limit of manifold pressure.
For any given r.p.m., there is a manifold pressure that should not be exceeded. If manifold pressure is excessive for a given r.p.m., the pressure within the cylinders could be exceeded, thus placing undue stress on the cylinders. If repeated too frequently, this stress could weaken the cylinder components, and eventually cause engine failure.
You can avoid conditions that could overstress the cylinders by being constantly aware of the r.p.m., especially when increasing the manifold pressure. Conform to the manufacturer's recommendations for power settings of a particular engine so as to maintain the proper relationship between manifold pressure and r.p.m.
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If you have a radiator hit, you can greatly extend how far you can fly by not letting the engine overheat and blow, by cycling the engine off (not idled, but off) before the temperature goes max red.
This was always good example of the gammy part of Aces High. Most military aircraft of the 40’s and all of them from the 30’s needed to be either propped or started with an external force. The Coffmann Stater is a great example. Used by the Navy and Army air Core. The Germans used inertia starters on the ME109’s and I think the 190’s as well.
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This statement is just not correct.
I guess when I started as a "Nose Picker" and went on to working on several varietys of Naval Aircraft, radial piston , turbojets and jet engines.......I should throw away every damn thing I was taught by the US Navy .including my low & high power turn qualifications...... my Trouble Shooter qualifications on the Launch deck both day & night ops......
because you are the most hotchit knowit all in this whole damned message board......by popping up and telling "EVERYONE" on these boards they are incorrect and you are "THE KNOW IT ALL MAN".......
just wanted to lay that out there......
and hell no..... I do not care to go scan 3 to 4 damn qualification jackets of my qualifications just to prove my squealing point.... ( edit: my navy attitude came out that word starting with Sq actual started with an F )
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LOL TC, I was just going to let it rest :D.
Traveler, sorry - Reading your post I'm not sure I understand what you think I said incorrectly. Can you clarify?
Tango
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This statement is just not correct. On airplanes that are equipped with a constant-speed propeller, power output is controlled by the throttle and indicated by a manifold pressure gauge. The gauge measures the absolute pressure of the fuel/air mixture inside the intake manifold and is more correctly a measure of manifold absolute pressure (MAP). At a constant r.p.m. and altitude, the amount of power produced is directly related to the fuel/air flow being delivered to the combustion chamber. As you increase the throttle setting, more fuel and air is flowing to the engine; therefore, MAP increases. When the engine is not running, the manifold pressure gauge indicates ambient air pressure (i.e., 29.92 in. Hg). When the engine is started, the manifold pressure indication will decrease to a value less than ambient pressure (i.e., idle at 12 in. Hg). Correspondingly, engine failure or power loss is indicated on the manifold gauge as an increase in manifold pressure to a value corresponding to the ambient air pressure at the altitude where the failure occurred.
The manifold pressure gauge is color-coded to indicate the engine's operating range. The face of the manifold pressure gauge contains a green arc to show the normal operating range, and a red radial line to indicate the upper limit of manifold pressure.
For any given r.p.m., there is a manifold pressure that should not be exceeded. If manifold pressure is excessive for a given r.p.m., the pressure within the cylinders could be exceeded, thus placing undue stress on the cylinders. If repeated too frequently, this stress could weaken the cylinder components, and eventually cause engine failure.
You can avoid conditions that could overstress the cylinders by being constantly aware of the r.p.m., especially when increasing the manifold pressure. Conform to the manufacturer's recommendations for power settings of a particular engine so as to maintain the proper relationship between manifold pressure and r.p.m.
So what does the throttle control? You don't give us an answer even though you state "This statement is just not correct." What is the throttle doing if it isn't regulating the airflow into the induction system? Why is it called a throttle? I'll give you a hint.
throttle 1 a (1) : to compress the throat of : choke.
Choke being in the definition of throttle leads us to the choke also found on many internal combustion engines. Interesting that two items on an engine are named after words used to describe restricting airflow in a neck.
I wonder why that is?
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LOL TC, I was just going to let it rest :D.
Traveler, sorry - Reading your post I'm not sure I understand what you think I said incorrectly. Can you clarify?
Tango
Sure, you worte "The throttle (MAP) controls the amount of air that can be sucked in by the pistons and thus the amount of air available to the engine. "
That's only partly correct. It's a combination of fuel and air that the throttle controles. That's why the turbocharger to provide additional air at alt. and the mixture to lean the abount of fuel mixed with the available air.
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So what does the throttle control? You don't give us an answer even though you state "This statement is just not correct." What is the throttle doing if it isn't regulating the airflow into the induction system? Why is it called a throttle? I'll give you a hint.
throttle 1 a (1) : to compress the throat of : choke.
Choke being in the definition of throttle leads us to the choke also found on many internal combustion engines. Interesting that two items on an engine are named after words used to describe restricting airflow in a neck.
I wonder why that is?
As you increase the throttle setting, more fuel and air is flowing to the engine; therefore, MAP increases.
As you climb to altitude moving the throttle forward will not provide more oxygen , which is what is needed for the combustion to take place.
The throttle controles the combination of fuel and air mixed. Not just one or the other. thuss the need for turbo charging and mixture control. turbocharging ensured a supply of oxygen and the mixture allowed precise fuel control.
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Sure, you worte "The throttle (MAP) controls the amount of air that can be sucked in by the pistons and thus the amount of air available to the engine. "
That's only partly correct. It's a combination of fuel and air that the throttle controles. That's why the turbocharger to provide additional air at alt. and the mixture to lean the abount of fuel mixed with the available air.
wow, now we have all learned that every single piston engine- inline or radial, all actaly had those superchargers, turbochargers
htc better get with the program according to Traveler. guess TC was correct in calling him a quote
you are the most hotchit knowit all in this whole damned message board......by popping up and telling "EVERYONE" on these boards they are incorrect and you are "THE KNOW IT ALL MAN"
please teach me my lil grasshopping self, thy way of the master, please
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Sure, you worte "The throttle (MAP) controls the amount of air that can be sucked in by the pistons and thus the amount of air available to the engine. "
That's only partly correct. It's a combination of fuel and air that the throttle controles. That's why the turbocharger to provide additional air at alt. and the mixture to lean the abount of fuel mixed with the available air.
Incorrect but thanks for playing.
The throttle controls air intake and Bernoulli and his principles take care of the fuel flow. (Carburetor)
Early fuel injection still used Bernoulli. Modern Electronic Fuel Injection measure airflow (Mass Air Flow sensor or MAP sensor) in combination with other sensors to determine fuel flow required.
There is no such thing as a throttle that directly controls fuel flow (unless you count the acceleration pump feature on carbs back in the day....this sent a shot of fuel into the carb during rapid throttle advance to keep the mixture from going lean)
If it controls fuel flow directly it is called a power lever, not a throttle. (Jet engines)
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wow, now we have all learned that every single piston engine- inline or radial, all actaly had those superchargers, turbochargers
htc better get with the program according to Traveler. guess TC was correct in calling him a quote
please teach me my lil grasshopping self, thy way of the master, please
I never said all aircraft have turbocharges. that's why some aircraft were poor performing at alt. The P40 comes t mind. All I said was that the throttle did not only control air flow. if that's an incorrect statement. Please show me where.
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Incorrect but thanks for playing.
The throttle controls air intake and Bernoulli and his principles take care of the fuel flow.
The throttle controls the amount of fuel and air. The air via the airintake drawn down into the Venturi wher fuel is mixed with the air.
Or are you saying that the fuel flow is at a constant rate and only the air flow can be controled?
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The throttle controls the amount of fuel and air. The air via the airintake drawn down into the Venturi wher fuel is mixed with the air.
Or are you saying that the fuel flow is at a constant rate and only the air flow can be controled?
I am saying that the throttle only controls the air. The air controls the fuel in a carburetted engine and in period fuel injection system. There is no direct pilot control over fuel flow using the throttle.
The method the pilot uses to control fuel flow is the mixture control.
There are three levers for each engine in an airplane with a variable pitch propeller.
1. Throttle to control air intake
2. Mixture to meter fuel
3. Propeller to control RPM
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I am saying that the throttle only controls the air. The air controls the fuel in a carburetted engine and in period fuel injection system. There is no direct pilot control over fuel flow using the throttle.
The method the pilot uses to control fuel flow is the mixture control.
There are three levers for each engine in an airplane with a variable pitch propeller.
1. Throttle to control air intake
2. Mixture to meter fuel
3. Propeller to control RPM
In real life, you are 100% correct, in this cartoon arcade adventure the only control we have is the throttle to control a mixture of fuel / air flow to the engine. For that matter it controls the vacuum created below the throttle valve, that sucks the fuel / air mixture into the combustion chamber . With no mixture control there is only one way in the game to not have a fuel / air mixture controlled by the throttle. That being to be out of fuel . The Original OP wanted to know how to control RPM. I think the subject has been hijacked enough.
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in this cartoon arcade adventure the only control we have is the throttle to control a mixture of fuel / air flow to the engine.
Seriously Traveler, you keep throwing your "arcade" & "Gamey" word around alot.....well dude this is not REAL LIFE....... but it is the best damn compromise from all directions to give people what they need to feed on and enjoy ( no not talking about your need to feed on what is arcade, or what is gamey )
The Original OP wanted to know how to control RPM.
Yes, the OP wanted to know how to control RPM, and this very indepth discussion has given him his answer many times over.....
Manifold ( ie... Throttle ) increase : use the = key
Manifold ( ie... Throttle ) decrease: use the - key
RPM ( prop Pitch ) increase : use the NumPad + key
RPM ( prop Pitch ) decrease : use the NumPad - key
unless you want to go in and custom keymap these features to your HOTAS system.......
also, hitting the P key ( WEP ) will over ride the RPM setting and put it back to Full RPM
In this arcade game presented by Hitech Creations there is times when throttling back ( reducing manifold pressure ), and changing prop pitch ( adjusting RPM ) will be needed to reserve fuel, to prolong flight / stay on station. this is more important in the Main arena's where fuel burn is set at 2.0 x's ..but is also just as important in special events like Scenario's and FSO's even though fuel burn is most times set at 1.0 x's......
when one's plane is damaged and is leaking fuel they can change their tanks and run the fuel out manually to keep the plane balanced or if leaking oil, leaking water..... one can cycle their engine on /off to keep the plane from over heating ( temp going in to the red & pegged ) and prolong their flight / distance before the engine siezes up and stops
adjusting manifold pressure, adjusting RPM, watching the temp guage when engine is damaged...... is very much important in this Arcade game created by hitech Creations.....
hope this helps...
nuff said
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In real life, you are 100% correct, in this cartoon arcade adventure the only control we have is the throttle to control a mixture of fuel / air flow to the engine. For that matter it controls the vacuum created below the throttle valve, that sucks the fuel / air mixture into the combustion chamber . With no mixture control there is only one way in the game to not have a fuel / air mixture controlled by the throttle. That being to be out of fuel . The Original OP wanted to know how to control RPM. I think the subject has been hijacked enough.
Well, strictly speaking, IF we were speaking about the cartoon world (and I think you are just using it as a way to avoid admitting your error) the "throttle" in the game doesn't control cartoon fuel air mixture.
It just changes a number.
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Cha Ching! Then perhaps you can explain. ACP know's a crap ton of info about flight, help a aeronautical engineer in training out.
I never meant to degrade anyones answer.
Oh and by the way, a lil info about yourself may help in your sig. I have no idea that OldMan has a HP endorsement...is he also a CFI? Dichotomy you can STFU since you are "just returning".
Dud...
I'd like to apologize for the perception of the tone of my post. I like to help people out when I can. That said I'm really not a fan of being told to STFU especially on this board. Granted I haven't earned your respect to date and, at this point, probably never will. But I do believe I've earned it regardless of how long I've been away from the game.
I'll refrain from offering you advice henceforth.
To quote a legend.. my regards.