Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: falcon23 on July 11, 2010, 08:25:51 AM
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I have the x52 currently,and have enjoyed it for along while,but the flashing lights and uncalibrating are getting annoying.I have tried "ALL" fixes to no avail,SO,this being the 44th time I have orbited around the sun,I am getting some cash from the wife. :O And want a new stick.
I want a CHfighterstick,but recently have seen people having issues with them.I want to get rid of the nose-bounce I think I am seeing in-game where I push the stick down and after I let go it bounces up a bit,or vice-versa.you guys that use a chf,do you like it because it does not have this problem?when you point it down it goes down and does not bounce back to center,or left or right?
Also,I am of course going to keep using my saitek throttle which I know I can with the saitek,but I also want to be able to use the programming for both items..I know,some people dont recommend that,but it does come in handy for me..
Last item.my dog chewed up the LED part of my track-ir last year and I have yet to get it replaced,it would be about $30 to replace it,somehow I feel a new JS would be a better investment..
Thanks,
Falcon23
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Agreed that a good JS is more important than the Track-IR. And while a few have had problems with CH, the overwhelming majority do not. Since 2000 I've owned 2 Saitek X-45's, 3 or more MS Joysticks, a Logitech Wingman Force (not to be confused with the current Logicraptastic stuff) and the CH rig. The CH beats all else all hollow for quality and durability. (MS was a close second on quality, but miserable on durability.)
Nose bounce however, is also simply one facet of how aircraft respond to input - aircraft always fight to return to equilibrium, and unless you are trimming constantly, when you let up, you will see what you are describing. Be aware that you may simply be becoming a "better" pilot, and are noticing it where you didn't before. As a result, you may find that changing hardware doesn't eliminate what you are trying to eliminate if it's not hardware induced.
<S>
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Falc, I remember a few years back when you bought the X52 and thought to myself...or maybe even told you...you're only one stick away from CH gear :devil
My CH Fighterstick is coming up on 5 years and NEVER have I had an issue. Combining it with a Saitek throttle is a non-issue. I used the same combo till I bought the CH throttle a couple years back.
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I have the CH full set-up, and have had it for years with no real troubles....had a button go bad and replaced it myself once....as for nose bounce. I don't see any, but from your description it sounds like your letting go of the stick and letting it return to center on it's own. In which case the springs are going to cause the nose bounce. Personally I don't let go of the stick except to grab my beer :D Not sure if that is your issue.
Second thing, you didn't say anything about rudders. CH does NOT have a twisty stick so you will have to use something else for rudders, which is kinda important if you want to fight in a fighter. :D
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Ghastly,you are right about me seeing the plane try to equalize..I have used ack acks scaling and I do seem to be getting better,and now I want to get good.someone told me that with a ch I guess the inputs are such that one does not blackout as easy using a ch as opposed to a 52.(maybe because it is fine tuned??)
yes max I believe I do recall that..lol..
Fugitive..I do have the saitek pedals so not a problem there.
How about the tension on the flightstick compared to the 52..
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How about the tension on the flightstick compared to the 52..
Hmmm it's been awhile since the X52 days but IIRC the CH has a tad more resistance. It's a very comfortable, smooth movement.
BTW Falc, a few of my squaddies in Flying Circus use the CH Combat stick...a few less bells & whistles for less money. Compare the 2 and see what's best for you.
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Falc I went the exact same route as this. I was happy enough with the X52 and then had a bunch of technical problems with it. Got the CH Fighterstick and loved it. Even replaced the X52 throttle with the CH throttle after a while even though I didn't really need to. If you make the switch I don't think you'll regret it.
As for resistance the CH is a lot smoother than the X52. There's a noticeable difference between the feel of the two.
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Just got my ch stck about a month ago. Wasted my money. Have to mess with the wheels on base all the time, I tape them and still have problems. second ch I buy, first one didn't work out of the box. Went from having 6-8kills in il2 to lucky if I get 2-3. I am not the exeption, lots of other ch owners have same problem the just don't post. Do a search for the past year and u will see. Other problem I have is I can't "screw" stick in place like the x52. So it moves all over the desk. And out of the box you feel cheated because it feels and looks like the joystick that came with the Nintendo 6400.
Semp
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Standard x52 sucks, the pro certainly doesnt. Get the x52 pro make it easy on yourself.
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Semp you must be one ham fisted SOB. All 3 trim wheels on the stick base have dentents...you have to forcibly push them one direction or another to move 'em.
My desk has a vinyl top...never had a problem with the Fighterstick sliding on me but if I did, the problem is easily solved with some Velcro on, or in place of, the four rubber base mounts.
Quite clearly you're not a satisfied CH customer...different strokes for different folks. I'd be willing to bet ya $25 that if you polled 100 CH joystick users if they were satisfied, you'd get 95 positive responses.
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Neg max I tapped the wheels with my finger. Not pushed but a soft tap, they moved, that's why people recommend they be taped.
Semp
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Most people who switch from whatever brand to CH never go back ... exceptions are mostly those MS Sidewinder users.... or people with Little hands that have trouble reach the top hats on the Fighter/combat sticks..... or if they are Semp....... he definitley dislikes CH for some reason
as for nose bounce.... you may rid yourself of it some by using scaling..... but the main cause of nose bounce I have found has been those people who use Combat Trim or who manually trim and do not know what they are doing....
personally.... I prefer my cartoon plane to have a nose down attitude during combat, to where I have to slightly/gently pull to put the bore sight on the target..... I accomplish this by setting my Trim to manual at Level Crusie sped of the airplane I am in....... once I had learned the different speeds of the different aircraft at level cruise speed..... I could then just dive if slow and toggle Combat Trim ( CT ) on then off at that speed.... so anytime I am in a Dog Fight, I am most times just slower than that top level cruise speed I am Trimmed for.....
no nose bounce in any plane..... and my Scaling is 100% across the top in all axis......
hope this helps
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The 52 pro looks nice,and with the new pots and all..could really be nice,but I am worried that it may uncalibrate and flash lights as my x52 does now..
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Generally speaking falcon thats a sign of low power.
Instead of plugging it directly into the computer try plugging it into a good externally powered USB hub.
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The 52 pro looks nice,and with the new pots and all..could really be nice,but I am worried that it may uncalibrate and flash lights as my x52 does now..
Where in Oklahoma are you? If you're in Tulsa, you could come over and fly my ch rig a little and see how it feels to you.
Also, if the dog chewed up the led clip for your TrackIR, are you not using it now or are you using the hat clip with the reflectors? I've got the hat clip if you are here in town and want it. I've never used it ever, so it's not doing me any good.
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I am in grove madda..would be nice to try it..but I have a feeling wont be able too..I do have the clip,but hate wearing a hat while flying...I have one shot at this and dont want to mess it up,,decision wise that is.
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I am in grove madda..would be nice to try it..but I have a feeling wont be able too..I do have the clip,but hate wearing a hat while flying...I have one shot at this and dont want to mess it up,,decision wise that is.
I'd get the stick then man. Just start saving a few bucks here and there, hell save your change for a few months and you can come up with the bucks for a new TIR clip. If you get down this way, give me a shout.
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as for nose bounce.... you may rid yourself of it some by using scaling..... but the main cause of nose bounce I have found has been those people who use Combat Trim or who manually trim and do not know what they are doing....
Before we start giving recommendations as to how to reduce nose bounce issues, we need to make sure that his definition of 'nose bounce' and our definition of 'nose bounce' are in fact, the same thing.
It seems to me that the OP considers 'nose bounce' to be the action that happens when you are in a dive and you let go of the stick. The stick centers and the nose 'bounces' upwards. The reason for this is more speed = more lift. When you center the controls, the plane wants to level out because it is speeding up as it dives. This is normal aircraft behavior, but can be minimized by using trim... you can definitely use manual trim, but I've always made good use of the "automatic trim set" control (period key). What that does is matches your trim forces to your current stick forces so if you let go of the stick right after pressing the period key it will continue just as you were still holding the stick in that position.
To me, 'nose bounce' is when you overcompensate aiming at an enemy... Example... you are pointing a little low so you pull back just a hair and the nose snaps upwards above the plane, making it difficult to make fine-tuned adjustments to get your nose right on target. This can be caused by the spring force of the joystick changing (traveling through center for example)... pot spiking (X52 doesn't use them in X and Y Axis)... poor joystick quality... incorrect scaling settings, etc etc etc... For me, getting rid of the X52 was what I had to do to reduce this issue.
I replaced it with a G940 (say what you want but I'm 95% in love with it) and force feedback aside, I've found it to be very precise and accurate... so much that I was able to turn off scaling and deadband altogether with it. It does have what's known as a 'reversal bug' which causes symptoms similar to what I describe as nose bounce, but it's still only a fraction as to what I dealt with on my X52. Also, after almost 3 years of trouble-free use, my X52 was starting to develop a bit of physical play in the center... which while mild in nature... was becoming more and more annoying every day. The Force Feedback does add a whole new level of immersion into the game as well, and I can push the aircraft just a little bit more than before because I now have the added sense of feel.
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CAn someone measure their fighterstick from hand base to top of highest hatswitch??
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I get about 6.25 inches from the hand rest to the center of the top hat switch.
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Thanks Fugi..I get 6.0in from the side of my palm to the top of my thumb,and thats with it stretched out fully..hmmm...
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some people have taken a piece of pipe insulation, that foam stuff, and cut a piece to rest their hands on to reach a bit higher. Homeboy also made a "shorty" version of one.
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yea..sounds good..BTW,how is the tension on it as far as moving it around..I always heard some liked the strong spring..I am reading I think that this one is pretty loose per se'.
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It's not really stiff, but it's also not really loose either. It doesn't offer enough resistance so that you have to work to get a gun solution if you're tracking, but it's not so easy that you overcorrect or anything really. I don't use any scaling at all and have no problems with it. The resistance is just about where I feel like it should be really.
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I think it has a pretty good tension to it. Its tuff enough that you feel it when using it, but not so tuff that it gives you a work out. Maybe a but tuffer than turning a new door knob, stiff, and solid. It's hard to compare it with something else. Stiffer than my Saitek Aviator. It's a good solid stick. It doesn't feel cheap at all.
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here's a pictures to help you, my view hat is the top right one. the red button is for weapons select. I got used to using both but sometimes lose my grip on stick, small hands here dont help 8 in from tip of pinky to thumb, rest of me is bigger :banana:. I didnt see any big difference in the tension as compared to the x52, but if you let go of the stick it will bounce from side to side, so you must center it prior to moving hands to keyboard/beer. if my hand is on the hand rest my thumb can only touch the bottom of the upper switches, big dissadvantage for some, me i can get used to it. notice the tape on the bottom "wheel", it must be taped once you center it or it will bounce. it is very sensitive and even taping it will cause to move.
semp
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/IMG00171-20100712-2224.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/IMG00170-20100712-2222.jpg)
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Semp are you trying to say you have teeny tiny hands?? And suffer from dinkydo??? LOL
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And coming from a Saitek X series, you will appreciate the fact that the centering mechanism works more like an aircraft. With the CH (and most JS), tension increases by at least some amount as you move from center.
With the Saitek sliding ring tension system (unless they've changed it recently), it takes the MOST force to move the stick from center, with decreasing force as you move further away as the leverage against the sliding ring increases. Kind of backwards, and really hard to make precision adjustments at center.
If your hands are small, cut the piece of foam to tape on the hand rest - it's a one time fix and forget.
<S>
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CAn someone measure their fighterstick from hand base to top of highest hatswitch??
I have the CH fLightstick it is a little shorter than the fighter stick but not sure how much. If you are looking shorter CH stick.