Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mbailey on July 12, 2010, 08:30:29 PM
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Howdy all,
I am an avid collector of original WWII era aviation photos ( im up to about 400 now all theaters and countries) and a new one i have just recd has me stumped. The image is below. It is a photo of 2 P51s and a P38 flying side by side. The photo caption underneath reads
"P38 & two P51s
25,000 ft.
I am in P-38 - Davidson and Batson in 51s"
On the rear of the photo it reads
"Batson was later killed in an air crash after WWII"
"Davidson was later shot down,but later returned to his base"
"I was never injured"
I have no info on who the P38 pilot was that wrote this out, but only his last name "Wishoff"
The birds dont show any markings that i can make out. Really its only going on the last name ( anorexic i know )
Its killing me that i can't find out who these guys were, or what theater of ops they were in. Any help would be great. ( Hey Guppy? lol )
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/P51photo.jpg)
I know the pic is lousy. Its actually crystal clear in R/L. My appologies for the poor quality of the photo, but its in a frame behind glass and this was the best my scanner would do,I hate to take it out of the frame as the righting regarding the fate of these guys is written in pencil on the paper backing of the photo.
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Found a Charles R. Batson who flew with the 7th PRG in the 8th AF. They had F5s and F6s I believe. Fairly plain markings. Could be they were Recce drivers.
Speaking of photos, I need to return some too :)
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Voss wrote that, as he was flying the P38. :rofl
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Not high enough to be Voss. :rofl
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Found a Charles R. Batson who flew with the 7th PRG in the 8th AF. They had F5s and F6s I believe. Fairly plain markings. Could be they were Recce drivers.
Speaking of photos, I need to return some too :)
Not sure if he's our guy but it appears that there was a Vernor Davidson in the 14th Squadron 7th PRG.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24554019@N06/3683646756/in/set-72157613174468298/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24554019@N06/3683646756/in/set-72157613174468298/)
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Found a Charles R. Batson who flew with the 7th PRG in the 8th AF. They had F5s and F6s I believe. Fairly plain markings. Could be they were Recce drivers.
Speaking of photos, I need to return some too :)
When looking at the pic, Im wondering who took the photo? I dont see any reflections, or canopy parts.I would think if it was another Fighter/PRG pilot getting a crystal clear image from such a cramped space like a cockpit would be tough. Buff maybe?
Many of the photos I have dont have much regarding the people behind them, but this one, if i could narrow it down to who they are would help me get it back into the hands of the Pilots family which is my ultimate goal with this pic.
Dan, No Rush on getting the photos back, ( just like the insurance company logo "there in good hands" :aok)actually I got more if ur intrested in seeing them, all original Axis 110,109,190,He111,Ju87 / 88 Do17 pics on the airfield and action shots, Allied 17s,24s,a20s,38s 51s (got some nice Iwo 51pics),47s,f4us,f6s,F4fs,P61 in all theaters. Got a bunch of British planes as well Spits, Typh,Mossies,Buffs etc. I also just got in a real intresting original Japanese newspaper card (photo) showing a couple of Zeros and a 38 nosed over smoking) with a caption in Japanese stating something regarding the heroic Japanese navy pilots shoot down an invader...."
Soulyss Thank you sir, Im going to get hunting on this lead right away. Finding both last names both in PRGs isnt coincedential imo. I appreciate you and Dan taking time out of ur busy lives to look for this.
If anyone reading this thread is looking for pics of a specific aircraft, just PM me and ill scan and email them to you.
Im working on getting everything scaned and opening a thread here to share them with the whole community, but scanning them all is going to take a bit of time.
I guess if I have an addiction, this one isnt a bad one to have :D. Funny thing is, it just started out as me looking for a couple of original photos to decorate my office, 400 photos later and here I am lol.
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Very cool. I cant wait to see your collection.
Dave -abdc
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When looking at the pic, Im wondering who took the photo?
The photo could of been shot from a gun camera?
mbailey, Do you remember if you were attacked from behind when flying with any 51's. If so, that may be enemy gun camera footage.
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Shot mebbe taken from a forward-facing camera in another 38.
Apparently there was a recce Mustang lost on 16 April 1945 as follows:
Lieutenant David T. Davidson (13th Photo Squadron) PoW, near Rosenheim, MACR 13924.
13th PRS was part of the 7th PRG.
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I think Scherf has it.. in regards to the shooter.
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=7prg&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=9&Temp=819&searchString=
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Don't know if this has been posted, post-war crash of pilot from same unit named Batson:
450608 F-5E 42-67123W 13PRS 7PRG 465 8 KMAC 4 Batson, Charles R ENG Hill Bn, Blewbury/1 1/2mi
Killed in Mid-Air Collision.
Photo of the unfortunate Batson here (on the right):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24554019@N06/3239678685/sizes/l/in/set-72157613174468298/
Taken from a scan of "Now It Can Be Told" - history of 7th PRG, which has shots of 14th PRS pilots in it, not sure about 13th PRS.
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Not high enough to be Voss. :rofl
Voss had them surrounded from the middle.
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By jove I think we've got it!
Don't ya just love detective work? :)
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Hello All
More on Batson:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24554019@N06/4792362596/in/set-72157619911531715/
If you poke around my Flickr account you will find a lot more on the 7th PRG including a number of aerial photo scans.
All the best
Scott Blyth
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Thanks again for that Scott.
mbailey - I can't help but think that perhaps there's a mis-reading of the pilot's last name. Scott's photos show a large number of 13th and 14th PRS pilots. Also maybe try to track down "Eyes of the Eighth" as recommended by Scott and see if there's a name which might fit better.
Either way, I reckon you'll find your man somewhere in the 13th (or 14th) PRS.
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Thanks Scherf
Please note that there was a lot of crossover in the 7th PRG from squadron to squadron. My father initially flew F-5s with the 22nd Squadron but wanted to fly Spitfire MK XIs so he moved over to the 14th Squadron which was flying mainly Spits. I haven't posted many photos of the 27th Squadron pilots but that would be another possibility. Check this out if you are interested in photo recce Spits:
www.dav32.com
All the best
Scott Blyth
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Im just floored at the responses, but more so for you guys helping out a complete stranger :salute
I think its probably safe to say that one of the Mustangs is Charles Batson, everything that has been found makes complete sence, and all fingers point in that direction. I mean, whats the chance that another pilot named Batson died in a crash after the war ended,and was photographed in such means as this if not attached to a PRG. I think it all points to him.
After seeing Sherfs example of a F5 photo i would think its safe to say that my photo was taken by a means similar.
Sherf, Im a bit confused by your question in misreading it. I copied what was written on the front and rear of the photo word for word. My thoughts are, the Davidson in the photo was shot down, then whats to say that yes he was a POW (like your info states, but doesnt say it on the picture) , but then when released "returned to his base"( like it states on the back of the picture) Just my thoughts, and i think your absolutly correct in thinking its the Lt. Davidson you found. Again for the simple reason that alot these pieces fit. Attached to a PRG, and flying with someone that we can (probably confirm) is Batson, that died in a crash after the war (like it states on the pic) coupled with the type of photo ( taken from the nose of an F5 ). These PRGs listed all flew out of the same field also...Mount Farm, so interaction between them is almost guarenteed. I think that we can throw coincedence out the window........if the glove fits so to say. I think your dead on!! ( If this was Mythbusters id throw out the CONFIRMED sign.)
Scott, thank you for looking in to this, and posting all that info. Your Flickr acct is awesome!! Theres no denying that this is a passion of yours. Id be glad to send you the photo if you would like to see it in R/L. (that goes for all you gents that answered) Like i said in my original post, its crystal clear (for its age that is ) and the markings on the planes are somewhat visible. If any of you gents want me to send it to you, PM me your address. ( ask Guppy, ive burdened him with some,and plan on burdening him with some more if he want to see them LOL )
ABDCWOT, ill be working on getting these scanned and uploaded when i get some time, Im glad to share these with everyone. They look good where i keep them, but need to be enjoyed by everyone. Its just alot to do.
Any ideas on how I should do it? Maybe a Photobucket account with different albums?
To everyone that answered,Guppy,Soulyss,Fencer,smoe,Sherf,Scott and everyone else, words cant express my gratitude in your help in finding out more about this photo. Now to figure out how to find a living relative of one of these gents, it belongs to them more than me.
So......its time for an opinion poll, Is this them?
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Hiya,
My question was simply whether you know for sure that the F-5 pilot's name was "Wischoff", or whether that was hearsay, possible mis-spelling, or some such.
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Hiya,
My question was simply whether you know for sure that the F-5 pilot's name was "Wischoff", or whether that was hearsay, possible mis-spelling, or some such.
Ohh rgr, sry it was a long day today. Very well may be a misspelling. Im working on that now. The person i bought it from is a friend and avid collector of photos himself, and he is working on that end of it for me
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Lt David T Davidson of the 13th Squadron, 7th PRG was flying escort for a Lt Vanderpool on April 16, 1945. He was flying P-51K 44-11569 and called up Vanderpool to report that he was having engine trouble. He lost a lot of altitude and nothing more was heard from him. The mission was dangerously close to Munich where Galland's JV44 Experten were busy intercepting allied aircraft with ME 262s and their little known R4M rockets. He became a POW for a brief period and then returned to base. I don't know if he is still with us but that is definitely not beyond the realm of possibility. Capt Charles "Chick" Batson collided with Lt Robert J Howard on June 6, 1945 near Didcot, Oxfordshire, UK. Both were flying F-5s and were reported as KLOD. Batson was the operations officer of the 13th Squadron. Batson flew a number of escort missions in P-51s later in the war. The only remaining mystery seems to be the F-5 (P-38) pilot. As for the photo itself if it is a square roughly 8 x 8 inch print then it is very likely that it was taken from an F-5. The Spitfire MK XIs on the other hand produced a rectangular print roughly 7 x 8 inches.
Cheers
Scott Blyth