Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RufusLeaking on July 14, 2010, 10:15:35 AM
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Discalimer: Aces High is a game. It is not a simulation of war. A comment by a prominent BBS denizen last night on country channel about “a waste of game time” got me thinking. The situation was ten sets of B-17s at 20k+ with escorts to hit a small airfield. This got me thinking about Economy of Force, which in turn lead to the whole enchilada … and nod to Agent360 and “The Aces High War Doctrine” thread for getting me to think a little deeper. :salute
The US Military has nine Principles of War: Objective, Offensive, Mass Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, and Simple. After a quick (and lazy) wiki research, I tried to apply the principles to Aces High and the mission in question. I also realized that many are whined about on the AH Forums.
Objective – More specifically, “a clearly defined, decisive and attainable objective.” Clearly, the massive B-17 raid had the objective of taking the base mentioned above. It is arguable that “the destruction of the enemy's ability to fight” is against the whole purpose of the game. What fun would it be to completely remove our virtual enemies? Still, having an objective provides some structure.
Offensive – It goes without saying that 10 sets of buffs is an offensive force. What separates the real world from Aces High is that the military wants to achieve “decisive results.” The stakes in real life warrant a rapid decision of the conflict. In a game, there should be (and are, in my opinion) results that are gratifying and consequential without completely disabling the other side.
Mass – My first thought was “horde.” Then I read further: “Massing effects, rather than concentrating forces, can enable numerically inferior forces to achieve decisive results, while limiting exposure to enemy fire.” This is more about the point of attack. The Germans had a word for it. Schwerpunckt? In game, this manifests itself as large gaggles.
Economy of Force – This is the one that got me thinking. Someone called the mass raid on a small airfield, and the green guys who upped in defense a “waste of resources.” I had to agree that ten sets of B-17s hitting a small airfield and town was overkill. Again, reading further, something not seen too often in Aces High are “limited attacks, defense, delays, deception, or even retrograde operations.” Retrograde operations? No one retreats in AH. Back to the point, in game, there are few cases of coordinated forces outsmarting numerically superior red guys. The comings and goings of individuals throughout the day hamper these types of operations.
Maneuver – Not ACM. In game, this is moving to a target where the enemy isn’t prepared. I have read a lot of the “avoid the fight” posts. But, here it is. Another example of the divergence between real life and a simulator based on WWII aircraft.
Unity of Command – Only in FSO. To try to get a coordinated effort in the Main Arenas. other than a gaggle, is like herding cats. I am guilty of chafing against the armchair generals myself. To be fair, it is up to the individual to find fun within the game.
Security – Spies! And enlarged radar circles with lower minimum ceilings. It also goes on about understanding the enemies strategies and tactics. Who the heck knows?
Surprise –Recent radar changes have neutered the NOE. The part of this one that has yet to appear in game is that “deception can aid the probability of achieving surprise.” I am not sure why not. I guess few want to be the decoy.
Simple – Self explanatory. I do get a kick out of this: “Everything in war is very simple, but the simple thing is difficult.” I thought smoking weed in the military was discouraged.
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This is US Army doctrine for GROUND Combat Operations. There are elements that I'm sure the AF uses in their S3 Shop when planning for Close Air Support, but it's not AF Doctrine. The AF would obviously have to know where the Schwerpunkt(Main Effort) would be vs. probing actions by GROUND elements, to provide support and targeting priorities.
Retrograde Operations are not a retreat, they are tactical movements to pre-determined positions, while in the Defense. Command is in full function. A retreat would be a "get the hell outa Dodge" scenario, where the Chain of Command is in disarray, units have little/no cohesion, and very little, if any coordination is taking place. And again AH is Air Combat oriented.
<S> Oz
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Simple – Self explanatory. I do get a kick out of this: “Everything in war is very simple, but the simple thing is difficult.” I thought smoking weed in the military was discouraged.
Human nature is to complicate the simple. Simple is complicated because human nature is like herding cats. Very complex systems are erotic to the ego and very vulnerable to failure because of their highly distributed interdependant structures. Simple always works in a sterile sense. Dropping some number of A-Bombs on Afghanistan and Pakistan would solve the poppy and Taliban problem. If all the players on the Rooks side for three hours one evening decided to fly as a single structered super hoard, they would close down the arena.
Masters of artforms and superior generals make the execution of their craft look simple. Simple in itself is an artform requiring mastering ones own natural tendancy to be enamored of oneself and distracted by the sound and fury of existance. It would have been simple to let Patton extend WW2 to fighting the Russians. We were at full capacity in men, material, superior technology, the A-Bomb and had forces in place on both sides of the U.S.S.R. The reminants of the german and japanese forces probably could have been used to augment our forces.
See how easily I complicated things.... :)
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I find the comment "a waste of game time" to be rather amusing. Game time is both impossible to waste and at the same time a complete waste of otherwise useful time. It's the basis of the appeal of games in the first place. :)
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This is US Army doctrine for GROUND Combat Operations.
It does reference the US Army Field Manual.
I seem to remember the USAF having seven principles, but it has been more than 25 years since my time in OTS. I may be remembering the “Tenets of Air & Space Power,” of which there are seven.
Anyway. when I googled “Air Force Principles of War,” I came across this gem of a web page:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/awc-thry.htm
Holy crap! Everything from Sun Tzu to Machiavelli to Clausewitz to Douhet to Weinberger & Powell. Principles of War, Psychology of War (for Bustr), Dimensions of War, you name it.
Two examples that are specific to WWII: GENERAL ARNOLD'S FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF AIR POWER, and LORD TEDDER'S PRINCIPLES OF AIR WARFARE
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After you read all of it, it still comes down to a single simple fact.
To win a war you have to kill more of their boys and break more of their toys than they yours in the most massive and horrifying manner possible. Or don't get involved in a war.
The only Japanese Command officer who understood the psychology of americans was Admiral Yammoto because he studied for many years in the U.S. to understand the america he would eventualy be asked to fight. He warned his superiors that he could only give them one year in which to defeat or bring america to terms. Pearl Harbor happened because our biggest blind spot as a culture is our institutional beleif in Fair Play. Americans are easy going individulists with no group loyalty or identity at first glance other than their personal whims. But, stab one in the back and kick him while he's down unfairly and you awaken a terrible righteous sleeping giant who will not go back to slumber easily without first punishing the agressor with the fullest measure.
We dropped the second atomic bomb on Japan because we failed to understand Japanese psychology before dropping the first. The second bomb fufilled the simple rule of war about: massive and horrifying manner possible.
Hello Afghanistan and Pakistan..........
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9 Principles of War
The nine Principles of War, as defined in the Army Field Manual FM-3 Military Operation
Mass> Concentrate combat power at the decisive place and time
Objective> Direct every military operation towards a clearly defined, decisive, and attainable objective
Offensive Seize, retain, and exploit the initiative
Surprise> Strike the enemy at a time, at a place, or in a manner for which he is unprepared
Economy of force> Allocate minimum essential combat power to secondary efforts
Maneuver> Place the enemy in a position of disadvantage through the flexible application of combat power
Unity of command> For every objective, ensure unity of effort under one responsible commander
Security> Never permit the enemy to acquire an unexpected advantage
Simplicity> Prepare clear, uncomplicated plans and clear, concise orders to ensure thorough understanding
Department of Military Science - Worcester Polytechnic Institute
EDIT: this one was at the top of a similar list..and was #1 on the list
Principles of War : Concentration of effort
"Concentrate your forces and their fire" - probably the most important principle. What decides the outcome of wars and battles is usually not the amount of forces you have, but the amount of forces you have where it counts, where the battle is decided. The commander should concentrate his forces, and their fire, and by doing so achieve a decisive local superiority, that will overwhelm the enemy there, break the balance, and allow a breakthrough to victory.
The whole idea of the German Blitzkrieg tactic was to concentrate massive armored forces, and massive close air support, to create an unstoppable rapidly moving "armor fist" that could smash through anything and cause havoc and chaos in the enemy's side, regardless of the enemy's total force.
The naval equivalent of this principle is simply "Don't divide the fleet", which is true both in attack, as was so destructively demonstrated by the German "wolf pack" submarine warfare tactic, and by the convoys tactic which negated it.
Modern air war is where this principle is most evident. When they penetrate enemy airspace to attack, scattered aircraft are easy prey to defenders. But when an entire Air Force takes off and charges as one coordinated force, it's usually an unstoppable overwhelming force.
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To win a war you have to kill more of their boys and break more of their toys than they yours in the most massive and horrifying manner possible.
Swahili anyone?????? :old:
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I find the comment "a waste of game time" to be rather amusing. Game time is both impossible to waste and at the same time a complete waste of otherwise useful time. It's the basis of the appeal of games in the first place. :)
+1 AH is a fun way to waste time :aok
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Kill the enemy and inseminate their women ......Conan the Barbarian . That was his principle rule of war. :rock
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wow.....breaking out the FMs aye?
Read FM 7-8.......all there is to it in the end......remember only 2 things you can do in the military
:salute 11Bs
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SWAHILI...................... ............................. ............................. ... :rock :banana: :old: :neener:
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wow.....breaking out the FMs aye?
Read FM 7-8.......all there is to it in the end......remember only 2 things you can do in the military
:salute 11Bs
What? No :salute for 11C's?(lol I was one), 11H's(are they still a MOS even).
<S> Oz
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To win a war you have to kill more of their boys and break more of their toys than they yours in the most massive and horrifying manner possible.
In game, there is no horror. Not even caps. Real wars need to be concluded as rapidly as possible. In game terms, this would suck.
This is where Aces High largely succeeds by design. Fun is in, "not fun" is out. Regarding the dead horse issue of NOEs, in the real world, there would be a bunch of tea sipping RAF pilots sitting by their Hurricanes, waiting for the siren. In game, who wants to sit around on alert?
It could be fun to attempt things like deception, misdirection, or economy of force. FSO is the best place for it, of course, but still, there has to be some cool points for pulling it off in the MAs.
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What? No :salute for 11C's?(lol I was one), 11H's(are they still a MOS even).
<S> Oz
HAHA I should have just said all 11 series...even though there is only 3 11 series now.....11B Infantrymen...11C Mortarmen.....and 11X Infantry recruit :D
:salute :cheers: Oz
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I follow 2 rules of war...
1. To see my enemies driven before me
2. to hear the lamentations of the women
also decreed by Conan
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11H got folded to 19Ds, my last top used to be a 11H
To win a war you have to kill more of their boys and break more of their toys than they yours in the most massive and horrifying manner possible.
Swahili anyone?????? :old:
Or make them think you will kill more of thier boys and break more of thier toys...ie coldwar
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I follow 2 rules of war...
1. To see my enemies driven before me
2. to hear the lamentations of the women
also decreed by Conan
You forgot to crush them first.
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Doctrines, Principles,etc. This is a game, why complicate it?
Bustr, don't forget the Russians declaring war on Japan at the same time. It was probably a bigger concern for the Japanese leadership.
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Simple – Self explanatory. I do get a kick out of this: “Everything in war is very simple, but the simple thing is difficult.” I thought smoking weed in the military was discouraged.
Human nature is to complicate the simple. Simple is complicated because human nature is like herding cats. Very complex systems are erotic to the ego and very vulnerable to failure because of their highly distributed interdependant structures. Simple always works in a sterile sense. Dropping some number of A-Bombs on Afghanistan and Pakistan would solve the poppy and Taliban problem. If all the players on the Rooks side for three hours one evening decided to fly as a single structered super hoard, they would close down the arena.
Masters of artforms and superior generals make the execution of their craft look simple. Simple in itself is an artform requiring mastering ones own natural tendancy to be enamored of oneself and distracted by the sound and fury of existance. It would have been simple to let Patton extend WW2 to fighting the Russians. We were at full capacity in men, material, superior technology, the A-Bomb and had forces in place on both sides of the U.S.S.R. The reminants of the german and japanese forces probably could have been used to augment our forces.
See how easily I complicated things.... :)
This would look like spastic chicken if I posted it in Swahili.................
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Three words I live by as dictated by my MOS(13F): Suppress, Neutralize and Destroy.
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I was kicked out of the war for being mean. :(