Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Ardy123 on July 17, 2010, 03:47:02 PM
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In real airplanes you would never gun the throttle when taking off, you would slowly move the throttle to full position. This would prevent the plane from just flipping over. In the game, you can easily gun the throttle on the ground with out flipping the plane (of course I'm talking about with auto take off off). Is the torque of these engines outputting enough? What part of the equation am I missing on why there is such a discrepancy between in game and takeoff in RL.
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In real airplanes you would never gun the throttle when taking off, you would slowly move the throttle to full position. This would prevent the plane from just flipping over. In the game, you can easily gun the throttle on the ground with out flipping the plane (of course I'm talking about with auto take off off). Is the torque of these engines outputting enough? What part of the equation am I missing on why there is such a discrepancy between in game and takeoff in RL.
I can flip a plane on takeoff without auto-takeoff on.
:D
wrongway
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In real airplanes you would never gun the throttle when taking off, you would slowly move the throttle to full position. This would prevent the plane from just flipping over. In the game, you can easily gun the throttle on the ground with out flipping the plane (of course I'm talking about with auto take off off). Is the torque of these engines outputting enough? What part of the equation am I missing on why there is such a discrepancy between in game and takeoff in RL.
This is a myth.
HiTech
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For an engine to flip a plane, it would have to have astronomical amounts of tourque, the reason why they ease on the throttles is because it isnt as hard on the engine, do you floor it in your car when ever the light turns green? no, because you would blow your engine
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In real life (and in the game with auto-takeoff deselected) the rudder is used to counter the torque to keep the aircraft tracking straight down the ruway. If the rudder is not used or is not effective, the aircraft will most likely ground loop, not flip over...not the same thing. It may flip over after ground looping at a high taxi speed and after damaging the airframe but not automatically because the throttle is moved rapidly from idle to full power. The time it takes to move the throttle from idle to full power is immaterial on the amount of torque generated by the aircraft at full power. The aircraft at full power will generate x number of foot-pounds of torque (all things being equal). Whether it took 15 seconds for it to get there or 1.5 seconds does not matter.
The torque you are referring to is primarily created from the propeller, not the engine. Propeller torque in game is correctly modeled. How do I know this? Easy, HTC does exhaustive research and testing to ensure their modeling is as accurate as can be obtained within the constraints of their technology at the time. If it's discovered that there is an apparent flaw in the modeling, they will fix it provided substantiating evidence for a correction is provided and checked and double checked against reputable sources/data. AH2 is one of the very few games where I've actually seen propeller torque modeled at all, let alone correctly...and I've played most all of em from boxed, stand alone games/simulations to previous online games (Air Warrior and a couple others whose names elude me at the moment). I have not played IL2 and most probably will not so I have no experience with how the aircraft are modeled in that game.
To really feel the torque of the propellor in the game, take the auto-takeoff option off and throttle up your favorite ride and see how the propeller torque affects it. You won't think the prop torque is insufficient, I'll almost guarantee that. :salute
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In real life (and in the game with auto-takeoff deselected) the rudder is used to counter the torque to keep the aircraft tracking straight down the ruway. If The aircraft at full power will generate x number of foot-pounds of torque (all things being equal). Whether it took 15 seconds for it to get there or 1.5 seconds does not matter.
But when it takes 15 seconds you have some velocity and much more airflow over the control surfaces enabling you to maintain a steady course.
Also, I'm guessing its torque that would cause what that problem, maybe not, either way, as hi-tech stated, "it's a myth" I guess.
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I've scraped my left wing on the ground while taking off a number of times in the K4 when I haven't been careful to use rudder to help keep straight and level.
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I use this sometimes to help me flip my plane over in a fight
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I can flip a plane on takeoff without auto-takeoff on.
:D
wrongway
Agreed :aok
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Can someone explain how torque can flip an a/c on a landing that is aborted.
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Can someone explain how torque can flip an a/c on a landing that is aborted.
1. Plane near stall
2. sudden increase in torque throws the plane out of balance in yaw and roll
3. pilot slightly over compensate with the ailerons, often combined with pulling the stick to stop the descent.
4. one wing has higher AoA than the other and stalls first
5. plane flips over.
6. firemen put out the fire and recover the body
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Ardy, your statement was about torque, that being a rolling force opposite the direction of the propeller spin , flipping a plane.
And the idea of it flipping a plane is completely absurd when you look at the scale of an airplane and the forces involved.
Torque has very little effect at take off.
The 3 other forces normally referred to as "Torque" (these really are yaw torques not the torque above) have a fairly large effect at take off.
those being
P factor.
Slipstream
Gyro.
Advancing the throttle slowly does not mean 15 secs. Smoothly would be a better term. The air flow from the prop is normally plenty to have sufficient rudder authority on the ground. Most planes can full throttle locked brakes, and then release for short filled take offs. The reason you advance smoothly is to prevent sudden change in force requiring very rapid response from pilot.
In ah we limit how fast you can move the throttle so it is always advanced smoothly.
HiTech
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Ardy, your statement was about torque, that being a rolling force opposite the direction of the propeller spin , flipping a plane.
And the idea of it flipping a plane is completely absurd when you look at the scale of an airplane and the forces involved.
Torque has very little effect at take off.
The 3 other forces normally referred to as "Torque" (these really are yaw torques not the torque above) have a fairly large effect at take off.
those being
P factor.
Slipstream
Gyro.
Advancing the throttle slowly does not mean 15 secs. Smoothly would be a better term. The air flow from the prop is normally plenty to have sufficient rudder authority on the ground. Most planes can full throttle locked brakes, and then release for short filled take offs. The reason you advance smoothly is to prevent sudden change in force requiring very rapid response from pilot.
In ah we limit how fast you can move the throttle so it is always advanced smoothly.
HiTech
Oh, thank you HiTech for the explanation, I understand now.