Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: sky25 on July 19, 2010, 09:29:35 PM
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Just about to order a new Saitek X52 Flight Control System on Ebay to replace my aging Thrustmaster TM1600. Is this a good move. I was impressed by all of the bells and whistles on the X52. What do you guys like or dislike about this joystick? I have been through three different types of joysticks in the last year and a half. I like to GV and want something that is smooth when lining up the zoomed in crosshairs of a tank gun. Some of the others I purchased were jumpy and jerky (Not the best way to explain it I guess) this isnt good when your lining up that one shot kill before he kills you.. I think you will know what I mean.
IT IS GOOD TO LOOK AT IN PHOTOS, BUT IS IT UP TO THE TASK IN ACES HIGH...
Thanks
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You will hear great things and terrible things.
I had mine for about two years, got tired of tinkering with it to keep it in calibration. It works great when it works though. I ended up just purchasing a different joystick and I continue to use the X52 throttle.
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Get the Pro model......I love mine....bought it used off Amazon and it's been perfect.
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I agree with boxman, I had the X-52 standard, loved for the feel and the controls....
But and this is a big detraction..when it goes south..it goes quick.
I had mine for qlmost 3 years and when it went..it wenty quick and no signs of going either.
If you are going to be spending that much change go with the CH Fighterstick, only problem is you need pedals for this.
IMHO the X-52 is probably a 3.25 stars out of 5.
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Problem with the normal X52 is that it looses its calibration alot when not plugged into a powered usb hub.
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I've had several X52's and now an X52 pro. Both have good and bad points. When new, it's great, especially the pro since it has a metal cup in place of the standard X52's plastic cup and it has a dual spring mechanism that creates a more linear resistance. The cup is at the bottom of the spring that acts as a bearing surface for the resistance mechanism. In the standard X52 that cup begins to wear at the point of contact with the base and will eventually begin to "stick" which makes it hard to smoothly control things. This doesn't happen with the Pro but there is still wear between the cup and the steel shaft. As this loosens up the stick gets sloppy. I can move the top of my stick almost an inch back and forth in any direction without creating any control inputs which is way too much slop and I'm looking to replace mine now.
Also, another friend of mine and I have had the detent mechanism for the throttle break in the same way on our Pros. You lose the idle and afterburner detent but the throttle still works fine. This is unfortunate because I used to have mine set up so that the forward detent activated WEP and the idle detent worked as the engine on/off control.
Overall, it's a nice stick but, because of durability issues, it will not last very long. Maybe a year or two.
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Well I don't have an x52, but I've been here for a long time, and heard every problem there is to hear for most every stick.
A If you get an X52 spend a few dollars more and get a "good" externally powered USB hub to plug it into.
X52's are power hogs, with all the leds' and displays they tend to run out of power right in the middle of a fight, when your computer is at its highest load. That will cause it to lose calibration, and repeated enough times will cause further problems. Turn off the bells and whistles, and use a "Good" externally powered USB hub from the start. (From what I've heard Belkin is probably best)
B Any stick from Saitek is going to be more sensitive than one from CH. That's just the nature of the beast.
It should be no worse than a MS Sidewinder, should be better than a Logitech. But you will have to scale it while your relearning how to fly. Coming from a TM to a Saitek this may be the issue that you will have the biggest problem with. Its mostly a matter of learning how to set it up correctly. Saitek sticks seem to be designed for geeks that weigh 135lbs unlike TM which tends to "power steering by Armstrong" school of thought.
Stock X52's won't have a lot of resistance. However esp x52 pro's can be stiffened up by adding a shim.
C CH makes very good sticks, but they are even more pricey than the X52's.
So if your ham handed, or rough on gear, spend the money now for CH and save yourself money and pain later.
D Buy the X52 now, fly it till it dies, then buy a CH stick, and use it with the X-52 throttle. (seems to be a winning combo)
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What does it look like when an X52 comes out of calibration? Is it really obvious like suddenly you just can't fly the aircraft? Or is it really subtle because combat trim accounts for it and you might only 'catch' it if you'd been playing AH for a while?
I've got my X52 stick & rudder pedals plugged right into the USB ports on my PC. I've never "noticed" them go out of calibration before, but I've only been in AH a couple months so maybe I'm not experienced enough to recognize it if I saw it.
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almost 3yr on my X52 Pro.
* no calibration problems at all (Pro uses beefier sensors which work great),
* trim wheel input kept dropping off to nothing (annoying as I use it for rpms) but new PC sorted that (the dreaded X52 USB power draw again I suspect),
* detents on throttle kind of broken - dont latch properly but theres still just enough of a detent to make Mace's WEP/Throttle/Engine off settings work (:aok)
compared to the logitech 3D pro I had before (lasted just 6 months btw), stick is muuuch smoother and more accurate. I like it :)
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Ever see the led's blink or flicker when you didn't do anything?
If you have a newer computer with a hefty Power supply you might never have it happen to you.
On the other hand if you don't a 15$ powered hub is a cheap insurance policy.
As far as losing calibration, if it happens you'll know it.
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I've got the X52 (not the Pro). I've had it for a bit over two years now, and mostly love it. After a few teething problems, which mostly went away after installing all the Saitek software (maybe the drivers too, can't remember) and getting a powered USB hub, I rarely have any problems with it. Occasionally it will decalibrate in the middle of a fight, which is incredibly annoying, but if you really secure the connector cables in place, it shouldn't happen too much. What I like the most about it are the buttons, and their layout. The two-stage trigger, and hat switches are just perfect for me. Of course if I got another stick (e.g. CH) I'm sure I could learn to love it too ;)
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Best thing ever you wont be disappointed.
I have had one for 2 years no problems. Daily use of AH2 / IL2 / Falcon 4 / Lock on Modern air combats play time.
:banana:
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almost 3yr on my X52 Pro.
* no calibration problems at all (Pro uses beefier sensors which work great),
* trim wheel input kept dropping off to nothing (annoying as I use it for rpms) but new PC sorted that (the dreaded X52 USB power draw again I suspect),
* detents on throttle kind of broken - dont latch properly but theres still just enough of a detent to make Mace's WEP/Throttle/Engine off settings work (:aok)
compared to the logitech 3D pro I had before (lasted just 6 months btw), stick is muuuch smoother and more accurate. I like it :)
Wrongo... the X52 and the X52 pro actually use the same exact hall effect sensors for X/Y, and the same pots for throttle, slider, and Z. The difference between the two is the double spring, and the X52 pro has more metal.. and a more programmable multi-function display. I'm not saying the X52 isn't inferior to the X52 pro, but they are not at all different as far as the internals go.
As for those with calibration/power issues. Yes a powered hub is recommended. This is NOT a big deal, and can be gotten online for less than $10, and in a store for less than $20. If that is even too rich for your blood, then you can adjust all the LED's down (or even turn them all off) and the stick will use only a fraction of the amount of power. Also the cable that connects the stick to the throttle (PS/2 cable IIRC) can become loose in the sockets and not want to stay in, especially if you unplug these often to put the equipment away.. or if you keep jamming the base of the cord against a wall/desk/leg.. who knows. I personally had no problems at all with mine, but I can see how it could happen.
I'd be willing to bet that 99%+ of people with 'calibration' issues on these have it because of power issues, or a loose connection. These are hall effect sensors with no moving parts... so for the most part it's either going to work or it's not. If it's losing calibration it's power related. Period.
Yes the spring is a little bit loose. Some people like this. I personally stiffened mine up a bit (X52 NON-pro) by cutting out the center portion of a CD, cutting a slit in it, and shoving it in between the top of the spring and its seat. This stiffened it up at least 25%, but I ended up taking it back out because the stiffer spring was making the center 'catch' area more noticeable.
In the 3+ years I owned my X52, I never had one single problem except for one single occurance early on when the computer didn't see my stick. I don't know what happened... I unplugged it.. rebooted.. plugged it in and then it was fine. Shortly after I purchased a powered hub (for other reasons.. I wanted more accessible USB slots and getting a powered hub just made sense to me) and have been running the stick through it trouble free all this time.
I love the way it feels, and I love the positioning of the buttons.
OK now time for the bad. I don't feel that the X52 is the most precise joystick out there. I had to scale it to minimize fine-tuned controlling of the plane (such as gunning) and even then it just seemed like I was overcorrecting myself all of the time. After about 3 years, it started to develop just a tiny bit of center shaft play.. not much.. but just enough to become annoying which doesn't help with this problem either. Also, when transitioning through the 'center' position, you get a 'notchy' feel as the spring unloads and then reloads as you move it the other way. You learn to overcome this by trimming the plane slightly left or right and then you are giving it a bit of left or right roll input to compensate... this way the spring is never 'centered' while you are dogfighting.
With that being said I recently replaced my X52 with a Logitech G940 (knowing good and well the negative aspects of this new stick, but I got it for a price I couldn't say no to). While I feel the X52 was much more comfortable and easier to use, I can't get over how much more precise the G940 is, ESPECIALLY considering it's a Logitech product. Its accuracy makes my X52 look like a child's toy, and this is with having scaling completely turned off. If they end up fixing its FF and reversal bug issues with the next software revision, I will be ecstatic! My fighter ability has improved AT LEAST 50-60% with this new stick.
So.. in general.. I would give the X52 3.5 out of 5 skuzzies. I have no experience with Thrustmaster... and my only CH experience is with an old stick of theirs from 15 years ago and from a flight yoke of theirs about 10 years ago, and I was not impressed by either... but I cannot judge their products today as a lot can happen in that time... and I cannot compare the X52 to either of those.
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I've owned 3 X-52's they all were Ok at best, they brake easy dont last all that long.
get the CH fighter stick, what you put up now will make the difference in the long run :aok
besides the fact that it's head and shoulder's above the X-52 in accuracy, it's gonna last you ten times as long.
do the math :aok
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I've owned 3 X-52's they all were Ok at best, they brake easy dont last all that long.
get the CH fighter stick, what you put up now will make the difference in the long run :aok
besides the fact that it's head and shoulder's above the X-52 in accuracy, it's gonna last you ten times as long.
do the math :aok
Agreed almost 100%. I did not have any issues with my old X52 but the CH product is just better.
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For me, all the problems with the X52 started happening after I bought it... after 2 years, its mysteriously starting to work right. Go figure why!
-One problem I had to resolve was when I lost pitch control... I opened up the case and found a wire cut in two! Seems it was rugging on the lower panel (even with all the grease already smudged in) so I taped the whole harness together. Problem solved.
-Next problem was the top buttons on the stick. For some reason, sometimes when you shoot and rotate your view for example, the inputs seem to be randomly intermittent and also can not work at all. Opened all up the stick, tried to find the problem to no avail. Next day it was working fine. Then a week later it does it again only to have the weirdness mysteriously solved minutes later... Happened about 5 times. Oh, and smashing the stick makes no difference :joystick:
-Now there is the calibration problem (flashing LEDs followed by decalibration) that everyone has (even with the driver patch and after trying all USB hubs)). The only times I noticed it happening was when I squeezed the main upper double trigger all the way (had 1st trigger in brakes and 2nd trigger on main guns). They flash very dimly when you test it. So I just swapped the brakes for the main guns and don't use the 2nd trigger anymore. Problem solved.
-Joystick can also decalibrate if the wire plug to the stick is slightly disconnected (and it disconnects easily). For me, it does so because I hold it on my legs and not on da table. One friend also told me not to disconnect the link wire too often as it wears the plugs and can render one or two stick useless.
-What else... YES, for the good quality VS certainty of failure, its a waste of money I think for such a high price. Buy a used one if you can or/and be ready for the risks.
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Agreed almost 100%. I did not have any issues with my old X52 but the CH product is just better.
I actually had a X-52 last two years :huh
the other two less then a year, although I may fly a bit ham fisted, Since the CH fighter, that thing is rock solid, doubled my hit% over night, far more precise :rock
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Look into the Saitek X65F a few in my Squad have one and I will be getting one next.
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I got my X52 back in 03/04,the only problem it ever developed was the twist rudder pot started to spike!
I tried several "fixes" but a set of pedals was the real solution.There's a couple of thing you can do to increase the life span on the X52.
1}the cord between throttle and JS needs adjustment to outside collar,simple spreading with a set of pliers will do.
2} use a powered USB hub and turn off the LED's and turn down the MDF's display.
3} mount the system so it doesn't move around,even just a simple piece of plywood that you can clamp,tape,whatever to your desk. this alone will solve most the problems.
4}Whether you choose the pro or regular x52 the stick will become sloppy after some use,this can be compensated for with the use of shims,I've used cardboard,foam,wood and I'm working on a steel washer ATM.Unfortunately as Mace said the spring perch acts as a bearing/bushing and I haven't come up with a solution for that yet!
It's difficult for me to get CH equipment where I live,must order it from another country,so I can't comment on the differences but from what I've heard a good CH stick,X52 throttle and pedals would be the way to go. Maybe in another 4 or 5 years I'll order a CH stick,by then the X52 will have paid it's dues...... :lol :lol
:salute
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Look into the Saitek X65F a few in my Squad have one and I will be getting one next.
Saitek is a joke, the only thing I have seen from them that was even remotely good are there peddles, I would be very surprised if this was any different.
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Saitek is a joke, the only thing I have seen from them that was even remotely good are there peddles, I would be very surprised if this was any different.
I kept the Saitek pedals I like them a great deal.
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I kept the Saitek pedals I like them a great deal.
yup me too, plus I use the throttle from the X-52, And CH fighter stick, very sweet set-up. :rock
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Look into the Saitek X65F a few in my Squad have one and I will be getting one next.
whats the major difference from X52? Figure if mine ever does give out I'll give that a go.
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Check/Search the hardware software forum, there's lots of comparison info in there.
<S>
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whats the major difference from X52? Figure if mine ever does give out I'll give that a go.
Completely different type of stick. In general it's similar with a separate stick and throttle setup like the 52 but otherwise very, very different.
The X65 stick has no gimbals at all, it doesn't move. Instead of using gimbals it has electronic strain gauges that sense force applied to the stick by the pilot's hand. No gimbals to wear out and no mechanical "slop." The throttle can also be split for twin engine control. Of course it also runs around $400 ($375 discounted). For me it's right on the top of the list to replace my worn out X52 Pro but I'm also considering the TM Warthog (not released yet) which is a moving stick but uses a ball joint instead of gimbals and the Logitech G940 ($275) if they ever get the current issues really ironed out with it's force-feedback system. Don't get confused though. The X65 is NOT force-feedback, it's force-sensing and senses the force applied by the pilot against it while the Logitech has motors for force-feedback to the pilot.
Of course, the biggest difference is the price range. The Warthog isn't released yet but it'll be up there in $$$. Dispite the X52's disadvantages it's the best thing going in the $100-$150 range for a stick and throttle setup and most will get a couple of years of use out of one.
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I've put my X-52 and pedals through 3 years of heavy use, it's still in good shape. I can't speak to it being super durable, as I'm pretty easy on my equipment, but I've never had a problem with it. I like the configuration software, and the freedom it gives me to configure the buttons how I want them.
Wiley.
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I've gotten three plus years out of my X52 as well. No problems. I bought the peddals two years ago.....much better than the twisty stick for the rudder.
I mounted mine on a "sideways H" mahogany+aluminum support. This goes between my legs for very good stability.
X52 base
------------- <------1/4 " aluminum
l
l <--------1 1/2 " mahogany
l
l
------------- <-------1/4" aluminum
V/R and <S> , LTARjink
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Look into the Saitek X65F a few in my Squad have one and I will be getting one next.
yall using pedals or just the twist?
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PEDALS (Period).
BTW (after watching this argument since 2005):
- CH users generally love CH (and they are generally zealots in their passion from what I've seen). Frankly, I can’t stand the configuration (nor feel) of CH sticks (I prefer the "F-4/F-15/F-18" style of HOTAS to that of the "F-16"--too many years of familiarity I suspect).
- X-52 users are generally not so zealous, and for what its worth, appear to be far more numerous. I've been using my X-52 PRO since early 2006 (about 4.5 years) and it’s still fine (though I'm considering replacing it with a new one on general principles). I also plan to wait until Mace "test flies" his new stick for a few months before I'm will to shell out that much money when the current model works fine.
I'm certainly not anti-CH...I strongly suggest you try out different sticks if you can before you choose the one that fits your tastes.
-Rodent
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PEDALS (Period).
BTW (after watching this argument since 2005):
- CH users generally love CH (and they are generally zealots in their passion from what I've seen). Frankly, I can’t stand the configuration (nor feel) of CH sticks (I prefer the "F-4/F-15/F-18" style of HOTAS to that of the "F-16"--too many years of familiarity I suspect).
- X-52 users are generally not so zealous, and for what its worth, appear to be far more numerous. I've been using my X-52 PRO since early 2006 (about 4.5 years) and it’s still fine (though I'm considering replacing it with a new one on general principles). I also plan to wait until Mace "test flies" his new stick for a few months before I'm will to shell out that much money when the current model works fine.
I'm certainly not anti-CH...I strongly suggest you try out different sticks if you can before you choose the one that fits your tastes.
-Rodent
well I'm not going to spend the money on pedals because the twist has been good to me. I'd like to know how effective the twist is on the X65F from AH users.
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X52 lover here. Currently using my second X52, the first I got about 2 years use out of. Mind you I am hard on my equipment, so I consider this to be a good length of time. My wife says it sounds like I am ripping the desk apart at night... :uhoh I use the twist as I can't imagine where the heck I could put the pedal setup, let alone explain it to the Mrs. why I need it.
Way
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I have been using a regular X52 for a little over a year now. I got the pedals about a month ago. I have never had a problem with the X52.
It hasn't become sloppy or hasn't lost it's calibration. I don't use a powered usb hub and I don't turn the LEDS off. I noticed the other day that a button 13 is activated when I pull the stick as far back as it'll go. I have been thinking of taking it apart to find out why but it causes no problems so I haven't done it.
I never downloaded any drivers or installed any software. I just plugged the stick in calibrated it and, voila, it worked. If you have a problem with it try uninstalling the drivers and do what I did. I like my X52 but like anything else if there is a way for it to mess up it will.