Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1701E on July 22, 2010, 10:13:55 AM
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Need a little help IDing a sword from you history buffs. It's suppose to be my grandfathers WWII Officers Sword but I can't seem to find any that match it online (close but not quite). Also looking for advice on if it should be cleaned by someone who knows what the heck they're doing or if that would ruin it, but since it won't be sold so long as I'm alive I'm not looking to increase/decrease monetary value.
Sheathed Sword:
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132536.jpg)
Hilt:
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132343.jpg)
Blade:
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132058.jpg)
Blade, other side: "Hilborn Hamburger Inc. NYC. Made in Solingen Germany"
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132229.jpg)
Blade:
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132202.jpg)
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132210.jpg)
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132239.jpg)
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132312.jpg)
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/2010-07-21132329.jpg)
Thanks for any help. :salute
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Here's another like it
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/old-usn-navy-sword-hilborn-hamburger-germany-ex
And another I believe.
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/usn-officers-dress-sword-ns-meyer-inc-defender
<S>
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Appears to be a US Model 1852/1875 US Navy Officer's Sword or some derivative.
http://arms2armor.com/store/product606.html (http://arms2armor.com/store/product606.html)
if your concerned with the value I wouldn't try to clean it yourself, I'd take it to someone who deals in military antiques and ask them what cleaning would do to the value and then decide whether you want to have it cleaned professionally or not.
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Thanks for the help guys. :)
Another question real quick though, are the minor differences between those and this one a manufacturing thing or is it something else? One difference I notice is most have "Germany" written above the 'Hilborn Hamburger' but this one doesn't.
As for cleaning it, like I mentioned I'm not worried about value but I'm not going to try it myself and risk ruining it.
:salute
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Well, if ya do for some reason end up selling it, Put it on pawn stars! :)
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Another question real quick though, are the minor differences between those and this one a manufacturing thing or is it something else? One difference I notice is most have "Germany" written above the 'Hilborn Hamburger' but this one doesn't.
Just guessing but probably made during the years we were not allies with Germany... :salute
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I found this on another website that may narrow down when the sword was made.
Except for changes in materials, the only difference between the Model 1852 sword and that authorized today is that the blade width was decreased from 1 1/8 inches to about 1 inch after 1872 and then to about 3/4 inch in the later 19th Century, and finally to 5/8 inch in today's Navy. The regulations of 1852 had the eagle on the pommel facing right. The use of the officer's sword was suspended on 15 October 1942 and was not authorized officially again until 1954.
Source Naval Historical Center.
*edit*
You could also try contacting the Naval Academy Museum and see if you can email the pictures to someone there.
http://www.usna.edu/Museum/# (http://www.usna.edu/Museum/#)
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Having a sword cleaned by a professional is NEVER going to ruin it. Quite the contrary: If a steel sword ISN'T kept cleaned and oiled the blade will rust and deteriorate. The hilts will as well.
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Thanks for the help guys. :)
Another question real quick though, are the minor differences between those and this one a manufacturing thing or is it something else? One difference I notice is most have "Germany" written above the 'Hilborn Hamburger' but this one doesn't.
As for cleaning it, like I mentioned I'm not worried about value but I'm not going to try it myself and risk ruining it.
:salute
Try contacting the Marine Shop in Quantico, VA. They sell very nice ($$$) swords to Marine officers, and they also do (or at least used to do) restorations of Marine swords that get passed down from generation to generation. One of my peers at TBS carried his Grandfather's sword and had them do some restoration work on it. If they can't help you, they'll be sure to know who can.
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Very nice blade,dont I repeat dont touch the blade,dont have it cleaned by a pro either!
Patina on old blades is half the value so have it cleaned and drop it's value.
Have a pro apraise it and tell you how to preserve it,some oils are a nono!
it's a beautiful officers saber,if it were mine I'd hold on to it.
:salute
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wow, i dont know much about swords but that thing is pretty :D
Keep it in good condition!
:salute
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Again, the help is very appreciated. Since I have no plans to ever sell it I'm more worried about it staying intact and not rusting/breaking I'm not worried about the monetary value. Some say clean it, others say don't, so with money not a concern, would the best idea still be clean it to preserve it?
I'm going to try and contact the Marine shop in Quantico, VA (thank you for the tip Stoney) to see if restoration would be safe and possible without getting a loan to do so. If it's not overly priced and cleaning is still the best idea I'll try to get up that way as soon as I can to get the work done.
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If you can find an appraiser/sword specialist,have them look at it.
They can tell you all kinds of things from the halmarks etc. they can also advise you on the best way to care for and store your treasure.
If it was a katana I'd suggest just coating it with clove oil,but thats likely very different steel and the handle jewelery is totally different and may need it's own care and handleing.
I totally understand,the no money part but again if it was mine I'd get an expert to look at and help me preserve it.
Most these type of swords arent really worth alot of money,relatively,{some swords can be worth millions}That said the sentimental value can be priceless so you owe it to yourself to preserve it the best way possible.
:salute
PS: I think it looks great just the way it is! :aok
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Don't clean it, just keep it lightly oiled to prevent rust. The oil simply forms a barrier to moisture. But find out if the oil you plan to use might damage the scabbard, or the fittings.
As others have noted, if you clean it, you remove the patina of age, and that will decrease it's value.
Beautiful sword you have there! :aok
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Read this,
http://swordforum.com/articles/ams/conservation.php
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"Just guessing but probably made during the years we were not allies with Germany..."
And probably not during the Hitler era either, with that Star of David on the hilt.
Nice sword.
:cool: