Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: FLS on July 22, 2010, 06:10:13 PM
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The stall slider just controls the buffet now and the buffet slider doesn't do anything. What was the point of removing the stall vibration? Why not have the stall slider control the stall vibration and the buffet slider control the buffet?
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The buffet slider has done nothing for a long time .At least the buffet is linked to the buffet sound now .
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The buffet came on with the sound before. The only change is losing the stall vibration. It would be nice to see both working properly but this seems like a step backwards.
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The buffet came on with the sound before. The only change is losing the stall vibration. It would be nice to see both working properly but this seems like a step backwards.
The buffet came on at the wrong time before , the way it was made it harder to ride the edge . Just before the buffet started the effect started ,making the stick jump in your hands . Now correct me if I am wrong . To get max turn you want to fly with the stall horn blaring as loud as it will go . To the point just before a buffet sets in right ? If the stick starts shaking at the point just before a buffet ,when fine control is at its most crucial point . How is it better the way it was ? This is a vast improvement . You don't get buffet effect at the wrong time . I would like to see stall and trim both done away with entirely and have an effect called airspeed . With return to center getting tighter as you go faster . Getting sloppy as you go slower .The point of FFB is to replicate what you would feel with physical linkage between you and the control surfaces . I don't know for sure but in a real plane that is not fly by wire . Would you feel a vibration as the stall horn got louder ? Or would the stick get sloppier ? Pyro I think you did a great job with the FFB FX !!!
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If the stick shakes too hard you have it set too high. It was better before but it would be nice to have both adjustable so we can each set our preference.
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Plz give us the stall vibration back. That's what FFB is all about. It's fairly easy to tell something is not flowing when you screen is jumping all over the place.
I'll do more testing. Perhaps it's just me that hates the new config like poison.
-thud
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If the stick shakes too hard you have it set too high. It was better before but it would be nice to have both adjustable so we can each set our preference.
If the stick shakes at all when you are about to hit the sweet spot it makes it harder to hit and hold the sweet spot . I am confused fls . Did you not realize that ffb has been messed up for a long time ? Did you ever do the test I suggested ?
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Plz give us the stall vibration back. That's what FFB is all about. It's fairly easy to tell something is not flowing when you screen is jumping all over the place.
I'll do more testing. Perhaps it's just me that hates the new config like poison.
-thud
I just don't understand this at all . Let me see if I have this right . You want a tactile response to something that should not produce one ? What effect would a stall buzzer have on a joystick or yoke in RL in a real plane ? You don't like a tactile response that would produce such an effect in RL in a real plane ,ie the buffet ? If a planes controls produced a vibration when stalling . What would be the point of a buzzer ? You do know you process tactile information faster then any other type ? You do know that the way it was , has been broke for over 2 years right ?
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There should be no "rumble" for the stall horn since there is no loss of lift. The "rumble" should only start once a portion of the wing is truly stalled, and that's when the screen "rumbles" per my discussion with Hitech.
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You da man Baumler .
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There should be no "rumble" for the stall horn since there is no loss of lift. The "rumble" should only start once a portion of the wing is truly stalled, and that's when the screen "rumbles" per my discussion with Hitech.
I like a slight vibration with the stall horn. I expect there's a reason why there is a slider for buffet and also one for stall. Since the stall slider currently controls the buffet there seems to be a bug.
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I understand your point FLS and if HTC wants that ability for force feeback users, they (the FFB users) should be able to "disable" it and fly accurately if they choose.
What you are describing is actually a stick shaker, that's used in many large commercial planes to warn of an imminent stall. I believe the technology was developed in the 50's if I'm not mistaken.
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Baumer this wiki reference states that the stick shaker mimics actual stick vibration in conventional aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick_shaker
The shaker itself is composed of an electric motor connected to a deliberately unbalanced flywheel. When actuated, the shaker induces a forceful, noisy and entirely unmistakable shaking of the control yoke. This shaking of the control yoke matches the frequency and amplitude of the stick shaking that occurs due to airflow separation in conventional aircraft as they approach the stall.
This reference states that vibration and buffet preceded the stall in a P-51H.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/p-51h-64161.html
The stall is straight forward and is preceded slightly by mild buffeting and stick vibration.
If you want to fly "accurately" it seems you have to tailor the FFB to the individual aircraft since, as I'm sure you know, pre-stall behavior varies between aircraft.
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I know we're splitting hairs but the shudder you feel in a real plane is the stall shudder in game. What is happening with the reference to the P-51H is that you start to get small pockets of separated airflow over the wing before the entire wing stalls. So while you can have small burbles of separated airflow, the manual will not call it a "stall" until a point where the wing is not generating enough lift to support the planes weight.
As Hitech has stated, once any part of the wing is stalled, that's what triggers the stall shudder in game. So unless Hitech has changed that modeling (which I doubt), there should be no shaking until you get into airflow separation.
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My point was that you don't need a stick shaker to have vibration in a stick. I assume that by "shudder" you mean buffet and not vibration. So far you've mentioned rumble and shudder but nothing about vibration and buffet. Do you mean rumble for buffet and shudder for vibration? Not nit picking just confused. :D
We know what the non working buffet slider should do but what is the stall slider supposed to adjust when it's not setting the buffet? Does it really model a stick shaker or is it supposed to be a pre-buffet tickle or something else?
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I'm sorry I didn't mean to confuse anyone by using terms I thought were interchangeable. So I will work harder on being clear and concise going forward.
Here are the points that I am trying to make clear.
1.) Prior to the onset of the stall shake on screen in Aces High (with or without force feedback) there should be no vibration/shudder/rumble/buffet in the force feedback system. This is due to the fact that there is no separation of airflow prior to stall shake on screen.
2.) Once the stall shake occurs on screen in Aces High, the stall slider should control that force.
3.) The stall shake on screen in Aces High is different then the stall speed that you would find in a manual. This is due to the fact that in Aces High the stall shake on screen happens the moment any single point on the wing is stalled.
I hope that helps make my opinion more clear about making FFB work more accurately.
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A stall in an aircraft with a stick shaker would normally be associated with jet aircraft. Two indicators in the aircraft would show the onset of an impending stall, the first and most important is the AOA, or angle of attack indicator, and this is the foremost used tool in determining the aircrafts possibility of a stall. The second is the stick shaker along with a warning buzzer and light that would indicate a stall is immanent. Anyone who has flown an aircraft would also noticed the "sloppy" control surface response prior to any indication or warning of a stall.
I think when htc put the shaking screen in it was as a result to simulate the sloppy control feel.......or give a prior warning to the immanent stall.
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I'm sorry I didn't mean to confuse anyone by using terms I thought were interchangeable. So I will work harder on being clear and concise going forward.
Here are the points that I am trying to make clear.
1.) Prior to the onset of the stall shake on screen in Aces High (with or without force feedback) there should be no vibration/shudder/rumble/buffet in the force feedback system. This is due to the fact that there is no separation of airflow prior to stall shake on screen.
2.) Once the stall shake occurs on screen in Aces High, the stall slider should control that force.
3.) The stall shake on screen in Aces High is different then the stall speed that you would find in a manual. This is due to the fact that in Aces High the stall shake on screen happens the moment any single point on the wing is stalled.
I hope that helps make my opinion more clear about making FFB work more accurately.
Now I'm curious what you think the buffet slider should do?
Since the stall is generally a range of AOA and this is modeled to a degree by the stall horn getting louder and the buffet increasing until the point of departure, I don't see why a little stick vibration can't be used to indicate an initial partial stall of a wing with the buffet starting as more of the wing is stalled.
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Well the update cleared up my buffet question, I forgot about the high speed buffet, but I still miss the stall vibration.