Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: -lynx- on January 03, 2001, 10:55:00 AM

Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on January 03, 2001, 10:55:00 AM
I'm upgrading to W2K Pro (I have to, OK? I've heard all the jokes etc - thank you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).

Would be grateful to get some advice regarding "do this - don't do that" from folk who already run AH on W2K.

Especially if they use Saitex X36 combo with CH Pro Pedals...

PIII600e @744MHz, BX6 r.2, 256MB PC133, V5
Title: W2K
Post by: Lephturn on January 03, 2001, 01:53:00 PM
Win2k rules.  Aside from pure gaming, it's the best OS going by far.  There are still a few issues with gaming, but overall it's a far more stable and well-designed OS than anything else I've used.

You should be fine with that setup with a couple of exceptions.

First, I would de-clock that badboy before installing Win2k.  It may not be as tolerant of your OC job as 9x was.  After you have everything running smoothly, you can try turning it back up slowly.  This will avoid pooching the install if there are stability issues.

Second, don't plan on using any USB connected control devices in Win2k.  Many USB devices have problems with Win2k, and I know folks have not been able to get USB controllers working in AH on Win2k.

Oh, and one more thing.  Please, please, don't do an upgrade.  Sure, it may work "ok", but it's just bad.  The last thing you want is to keep all the old toejam that a Win9x upgrade would leave around.  Do yourself a huge favour and blow that thing away and install Win2k on a clean NTFS partition.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
Title: W2K
Post by: JimBear on January 03, 2001, 02:14:00 PM
Listen to Lephturn the man knows of what he speaks  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

BTW, I know of no one that has been able to get the Saitek X36 USB combo to function in AH under W2K.  Good luck to you and if YOU can get them to work please share that info.

JimBear
VMF111 =DevilDogs=
Title: W2K
Post by: jihad on January 03, 2001, 03:57:00 PM
 Download the W2K Service Pack and install it!

 I had no luck with USB stick support with W2K and AH,it worked fine with my analog game port and my old Logicrap stick.

 Beware of overclocking your video card with W2K-it caused a lot of problems for my V770 TNT2.
Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on January 04, 2001, 07:01:00 AM
Hmmm... One of the reasons to go with W2K was in(allegedly)built USB support? X36 USB refused to work under Win98 and I cant lay my hands on a Win98SE disk even for 20 minutes  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)... Nor am I going to buy the stupid thing - I paid for the first one... I installed all service packs and it's a no-go.


As for upgrade vs clean install - surely it will upgrade from my Win 3.1 floppies onto a freshly re-formatted HD - 95 did, so did 98? C'mon Microsoft, you're still a bunch of dummies, right?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: W2K
Post by: AKDejaVu on January 04, 2001, 08:57:00 AM
The USB joystick problem under Win2k seems to be more AH specific.  The USB joystick works fine with other flight sims under Win2k.

Ironically, I could never get my Gameport joystick to work with Win98.

AKDejaVu
Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on January 26, 2001, 03:11:00 AM
OK, tried to install the beast (W2K Update) on a freshly formatted HD - all it asked for was a copy of Win95/98 or WinNT CD. People, don't waste money on full versions!

Now I have a daft problem - every time I shut the computer down it goes through the stupid NT-like routine and then says "It is now safe to turn your computer off" and sits there waiting for it to be turned off... I don't even have a "turn-off" switch. Both 95 and 98 were just switching it off all by themselves. Is there a box somewhere I need to tick?  
Title: W2K
Post by: Boroda on January 29, 2001, 10:15:00 AM
Lynx, here is a link to a solution of a shutdown problem:
 http://www.3dnews.ru/reviews/software/win2000_faq/index07.htm#63 (http://www.3dnews.ru/reviews/software/win2000_faq/index07.htm#63)

It's in Russian, but I hope you'll understand it  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

The Win2000 FAQ start page is:
 http://www.3dnews.ru/reviews/software/win2000_faq/ (http://www.3dnews.ru/reviews/software/win2000_faq/)

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
Title: W2K
Post by: Sancho on January 29, 2001, 11:03:00 AM
Try this: http://registry.winguides.com/display.php/251/ (http://registry.winguides.com/display.php/251/)
Title: W2K
Post by: qts on January 29, 2001, 04:37:00 PM
First off, don't hesitate to install W2k if you've got 256 MB. The stability is exceptional compared to W9x and NT.

Second. Forget about getting your X36 USB to work - it won't work properly for now. I use a Cyborg 3D

------------------
qts
Title: W2K
Post by: Dux on January 29, 2001, 05:04:00 PM
I'm looking into new hardware options, so I need a clarification on a couple of related things...

a) are the USB troubles in Win2K only for the Saitek X36 (which I have & love) or is it all USB controllers?

b) is WinME the same as Win2K?

sorry if this is a hijack... it seems relevant to me.
Title: W2K
Post by: Sancho on January 30, 2001, 12:37:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dux:
are the USB troubles in Win2K only for the Saitek X36 (which I have & love) or is it all USB controllers?

AFAIK, the issues with Aces High and USB controllers were resolved as of the latest patch.  I am able to fly AH with a USB gamepad now... before latest patch, AH wouldn't recognize any control inputs from this USB controller.  Someone else posted that his Saitek USB works now in AH and Win2k.
Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on January 30, 2001, 02:52:00 AM
Thank you all - shutdown is working now (ACPI was disabled in BIOS - duh!) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).

Don't have time to do much right now but HT said they'd resolved the AH/X36 in USB problems - I guess I'll just have to try and see?

Dux - WinME and W2K are different things. WinME is a development of Win95/98 line while W2K comes from WinNT lineage. As far as I know Win98SE is the best of the first lot. WinME contains cosmetic changes and surely MS couldn't pass on the once in a thousand years opportunity  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) to sell yet more copies of Windows re-packaging them under ME guise.

I like most of what I've seen so far (which isn't much!) under W2K: installation of a HP950C USB printer comprised plugging it in... It blinked once and that was it - printer installed - no CDs or reboots...

Didn't like that it never asked me what I wanted/didn't want to install - I don't need/want "accessibility options". Or maybe I missed "typical/custom" option during the installation - was cooking dinner at the same time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Title: W2K
Post by: Dux on January 30, 2001, 06:33:00 PM
Thanks Lynx. I'll give it a try soon enough.
Title: W2K
Post by: DrSoya on January 31, 2001, 06:47:00 PM
I just went back to a dual boot Win98/Win2k sytem after 4 months of Win98-only. I too have a X36 USB combo and CH Pro Pedals USB, and I'm still going to use Win98 for Aces High (exclusively!), because of those factors:

Note that the X36 now works fine under Win2k, at least on my computer, but the problem is that AH only correctly recognizes DirectX buttons 1 to 11. What seems to work is:


That leaves out:


That's a lot. Besides, I don't see how I could program the mode selector with DirectX buttons in AH (I use it to switch between Fighter/Bomber/Vehicle-Boat modes), and I really need the rotary dials and both hat switches on the throttle.

We really need SGE.

I won't hold my breath for a Win2k-compatible version of SGE. Saitek has said in an e-mail to a customer (http://user.mc.net/~ronht/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000046.html) that it will take a few months. For now I'll have to reboot under Win98 to play AH.

------------------
DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (http://www.raf303.org/northolt) (First Polish Fighter Wing)

[This message has been edited by DrSoya (edited 01-31-2001).]
Title: W2K
Post by: MrSiD on February 01, 2001, 04:43:00 PM
I've heard alarming reports from several IT companies around my area.. They're ditching Win2k because of several problems.

Problems I've heard include erratical crashes with Office2000 products.. Serious fragmentation of harddrive (needs a looong defrag often to keep in condition..) And of course if you look at any gaming benchmarks produced with win2k you'll see that win98SE wipes w2k bellybutton by a healthy 50% back and forth..

If you don't have a special need for W2Krap, I'd leave it out of my box untill say, SP 4 =)



[This message has been edited by MrSiD (edited 02-01-2001).]
Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on February 06, 2001, 11:07:00 AM
OK, anyone in the UK can lend me a Win98SE CD for an hour (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)? I promise to send it right back... I paid for the original version and no amounts of service packs could get the USB to work properly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).

DrSoya - how does one get a system to selectively boot?
Title: W2K
Post by: Lephturn on February 06, 2001, 12:58:00 PM
MrSid, that's a load of BS.

NT4 and Win2k are both worlds better in stability than Win9x/WinMe will ever be.  If you are going for stability on a Wintel platform, you go with the NT codebase.  'nuff said.

With DirectX 8.0 for Win2k available, the performance delta between Win2k and Win98 is pretty small.  Sure, Win98 will be a bit faster (more like 10%, if that), but at the price of reduced stability.

I'm in the IT industry myself.  In fact, the company I work for sells software for Win2k migrations.  (http://www.fastlane.com)  The industry-wide roll-out of Win2k is happening at an amazing pace, more than twice as fast as NT was rolled out.  If the supposed "serious problems" you speak of were real, it would have slowed or stopped the Win2k roll-out.  This had not happened.

Every IT support person I know is dying for a Win2k roll-out.  It's just made everything so much easier.  Sure, it's not perfect, but it's a big step up from supporting NT4!

Win2k still has some problems with USB support and control stick compatibility.  If you can work around those, and have the hardware to run it (you NEED 256 Megs of RAM) Win2k is the way to go.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
Title: W2K
Post by: DrSoya on February 06, 2001, 05:33:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by -lynx-:
OK, anyone in the UK can lend me a Win98SE CD for an hour   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)?

Well I did exactly the same thing. When my brother bought his PC it came with Win98SE. My Win98 serial number works with his Win98SE CD, so if the software allows it, then it's not a big deal, right?   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) It's not like there were major differences between Win98 and Win98SE.

 
Quote

DrSoya - how does one get a system to selectively boot?

You install Win9x first, then the Win2k installer will take care of that. When you boot you have a menu with a countdown (30 seconds by default, I changed it to 10). You can have either Win9x or Win2k (or NT4 for that matter) boot by default if you don't make a choice.

I'm an IT support guy myself, but a "generalist" (first line). The big guys decided last year to move to Win2k, it's going to be in a year to a year and a half (5 000+ PCs to migrate). I don't know if I can wait that long, I'm tired of having to support Win95A (yes, A) and a Banyan Vines network!

------------------
DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (http://www.raf303.org/northolt) (First Polish Fighter Wing)

[This message has been edited by DrSoya (edited 02-06-2001).]
Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on February 07, 2001, 08:44:00 AM
OK, attempt to install W2K yesterday on a brand new 46GB IBM deskstar.

Formatting in NTFS - WTF is NTFS and what's happened to the FAT32 it formatted the smaller HD earlier? (there was no option for FAT32 for formatting...)

I still don't want "Accessibility option" - I still never got asked any options for install other than keyboard layout.

Yikes - installing V5 drivers, it didn't recognise the card, installed generic VGA and then wouldn't let the darn thing go (V5 didn't start until 3rd or 4th reboot)...

Is it possible to format 46GB as one FAT32 disk at all?
Title: W2K
Post by: Vermillion on February 07, 2001, 09:01:00 AM
NTFS - NT File System

Its a generally more stable way to write HD information that was developed with the NT OS.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on February 07, 2001, 09:30:00 AM
Hmmm - more stable but would Win98 install on it?
Title: W2K
Post by: MrSiD on February 07, 2001, 09:55:00 AM
Lephturn: I didnt claim W98SE was more stable, I told its game performance beats W2k back and forth!

It's tested several times with different benchmarks. For example Athlon 1.2Gig with GF2 scored less than 4000 with W2k and 7500+ with W98SE in 3DMark2000 - 'nuff said.
If the _home_ user has no real need for business class reliability, I don't see why anyone should freewillingly take that kind of performance hit to their machine.

Those problems I told about are real, and if you look at the problems reported (hd fragmenting etc.) theyre probably caused by too little amount of RAM. I guess the companies didn't want to start upgrading _all_ their student training computers just because of this new OS, even I don't have 256Megs of ram in my box and I see no need to buy 128 more because of W2k.

Ok, that user seemed to have 256M RAM so it might work for him.. Anyway, in my point of view for a home user W2k is still more a bag of problems than an advantage.

I'm currently administering NT4 in our company, and none of our IT people are too jumping about the arrival of W2k simply because we'll have to start upgrading most of our 6000 workstations when (and if) the shift happens. Majority of computers are still 2-3 years old and equipped with 64-128 Megs of RAM.

We use W2k currently only to a couple places where we need the flexibility of W2k in for example plugging new devices in at speed.

Don't tell me I'm full of toejam because that's not the case. Please.

[This message has been edited by MrSiD (edited 02-07-2001).]
Title: W2K
Post by: MrSiD on February 07, 2001, 10:00:00 AM
And Lynx: the correct procedure for (double) installing W2k is to first install W98SE and after that install W2k as second OS.

You might consider partitioning your HD so that C: contains only system files, then D: E: etc. You may even install W98 to C: and then install W2k using D: partition.

I wouldn't want to have a 40+Gb HD in 1 partition.. Even defragmenting would be a pain in the ass. With multiple partitions you can always defrag a partition at a time when you feel the need for it.
Title: W2K
Post by: Staga on February 07, 2001, 10:05:00 AM
Nope.

W2k can "Read" FAT16, FAT32 and NTFS but W98 only 16 and 32.

When installing W2K to FAT-form disk the installation asks if you want to use NTFS or stay in FAT.

EDIT: Too slow to type; This was answer to Lynx's post

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 02-07-2001).]
Title: W2K
Post by: Staga on February 07, 2001, 10:17:00 AM
I started to use W2K because for some reason AH crashed after 15min-1hour gameing.

I still have 60-70fps (1024*768/32bit) with P3 700@933 256Mb Gf2MX(oc'd)with Nvidia 6.34 drivers and Dx8a.

Some tests show W2K with Dx8 and good drivers are almost as good as 98.
If my fps drop from 80 to 60-70 I can live with it if I got more stable and safe system instead huge 3D-Marks  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: W2K
Post by: MrSiD on February 07, 2001, 10:35:00 AM
Staga: I'm glad to hear it worked out for you..

On the other hand, Aces High crashing in W98 is not normal, you had a problem which could have been solved without a new OS =)

Anyway, it seems the trend is to move to the new system, Microsoft is planning even to force people to do so.

Just seems a bit ridiculous how Windows consumes more and more resources.. There was a joke about similarities with viruses and Windows. There's a hidden truth to that joke ;-)
Title: W2K
Post by: -lynx- on February 07, 2001, 10:57:00 AM
Thank you all - still need to borrow 98SE from somewhere... *sigh*

MrSid - I see your point about defrags, didn't think about it...
Title: W2K
Post by: Quixote on February 08, 2001, 04:22:00 PM
BTW, I could imagine problems with Office2000 could result from the MS FindFast application/cancer/plague (take your pick). At best it's an annoyance, at worst it hogs memory, accesses your hard disk at the most inappropriate moments and might even go as far as trash your disk during heavy swapping. And the POS even gets installed by default!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Title: W2K
Post by: qts on February 08, 2001, 04:26:00 PM
Some points to assorted posts:

1 - Windows 2000 has a hard-coded limit of 32 GB when *creating* FAT32 partitions. Workaround: use Win98 to create larger partitions.

2 - I work in corporate IS in the aerospace industry and Windows 2000 adoption seems to be quite slow on the server front only. As a workstation OS it is leaps and bounds above NT4. Rolling out a new OS is a major logistical exercise, and many IT departments will have only just finished the evaluation stage and started planning the roll-out.

3 - The X36 does not work correctly under 2000.

4 - NTFS vs FAT32. For home use, go for FAT32. NTFS may have some nifty features but it takes a lot to beat the ability to boot from a floppy and access the HDD.
Title: W2K
Post by: Phantom121 on February 13, 2001, 03:32:00 PM
I use X-36 and Win2k - no problems.
Sure sge does not run in win2k but you can configure which 16 inputs you want to use in Aces stick setup.  It takes a little work to setup but functions just fine.