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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: milesobrian on July 28, 2010, 09:42:16 PM

Title: The new CV guns
Post by: milesobrian on July 28, 2010, 09:42:16 PM
Greetings,
I noticed when the patch came out a week ago, that the update adds the effect to the big CV guns to give them trails.  Personally i like this effect and it has a huge strategic importance as it can help to indicate where the CV is.  However i was wondering is this how it was during the war, could  troops see these huge rounds streak through the sky, or was it an effect that only pilots could see?  Any additional information would be helpful and i would be grateful to learn more about this topic. 

For all i know the company just  added this effect to help you locate CV or so it could help you realize you are getting shelled.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: oakranger on July 28, 2010, 09:49:14 PM
Greetings,
I noticed when the patch came out a week ago, that the update adds the effect to the big CV guns to give them trails.  Personally i like this effect and it has a huge strategic importance as it can help to indicate where the CV is.  However i was wondering is this how it was during the war, could  troops see these huge rounds streak through the sky, or was it an effect that only pilots could see?  Any additional information would be helpful and i would be grateful to learn more about this topic. 

For all i know the company just  added this effect to help you locate CV or so it could help you realize you are getting shelled.

I was wondering the same thing.  I would image that they could see trails, a 16 inch artillery shell breaking thou the air.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Bruv119 on July 28, 2010, 10:13:19 PM
how about some High altitude vapor trails that fade out like the shells do and  some wingtip vortices when someone is pulling High G!  

Our machines can handle it I promise!
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: MachFly on July 28, 2010, 11:08:41 PM
I would imagine the large shells did have trails, but not all the time as it would depends on the weather conditions.

I doubt HTC would purposely do something that's unrealistic.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: AWwrgwy on July 28, 2010, 11:15:23 PM
I would imagine the large shells did have trails, but not all the time as they would depends on the weather conditions.

I doubt HTC would purposely do something that's unrealistic.

Missing a (http://www.book-works.biz/Wink.gif) ?

I think the trails are the easy and quick answer to the "dyed splashes" wish with the unintended anti-sneaky-shelling results.

Otherwise, unless it had a tracer in it's butt or you saw the actual shell flying through the air, other than anomalies of weather such as very high humidity, you would not see a trail.

The shells are not hot, they do not have their own propellant.  There would be nothing to see.

I have seen accounts of people seeing the actual shells but not what like we have.


wrongway
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: RealDeal on July 28, 2010, 11:24:58 PM
There are countless reams of film footage of battleships firing their main guns and I have yet to see any "trails" of any type. :salute

RealDeal
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: thndregg on July 28, 2010, 11:51:26 PM
Another concession perhaps for game play, similar to one bomber pilot- three bombers?
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: james on July 29, 2010, 12:46:43 AM
Wow wrongway go to your corner.  :D
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: milesobrian on July 29, 2010, 01:06:10 AM
There are countless reams of film footage of battleships firing their main guns and I have yet to see any "trails" of any type. :salute

RealDeal


This is why i am confused.  I wasnt there and at the time the films produced were of questionable quality and may not have been able to record certain things.


so why did they add it??  to help locate the CV or to know if they are attacking?
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Kazaa on July 29, 2010, 01:07:30 AM
Looks awesome to watch though. :lol
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Jayhawk on July 29, 2010, 01:12:05 AM

This is why i am confused.  I wasnt there and at the time the films produced were of questionable quality and may not have been able to record certain things.


so why did they add it??  to help locate the CV or to know if they are attacking?

wrgwy touched on it, there have many many requests for some kind of system to track your shells.  Prior to the update, it was very difficult to tell what shells were your own while firing at a target.  This system allows you to track the shells and figure out what adjustments need to be made to your shot.  I don't think it's a perfect system, can they not design it so that only the shooter can see them?  Anyway, as ThndrEGG said, it's probably a concession to improve game play.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Nemisis on July 29, 2010, 01:17:52 AM
Looks awesome to watch though. :lol


Confused the crap outa me the first time I saw it. I was making a torpedo run at a CV with most of the ack down, and when I saw the trails, I exlaimed "Oh chit!! The cruiser is shooting rockets at me" (one almost hit my plane).
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Flayed on July 29, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
I remember back in AH1 I think it was, I was flying at 5 K or so when all of the sudden some big bellybutton tracers flew about a foot over my right wing as someone was shelling the field half a sector behind me....  Nothing better than to almost get HO'd by the cruiser :P lol.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: froger on July 29, 2010, 01:52:04 AM
I was in the air last night watching someone toss 8"" shells up over the cloud deck.
   now that looked cool from 16k.
the trails seamed to go away upon reentry.



fun to see it is all.


that is all.......




froger
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: MajWoody on July 29, 2010, 02:40:22 AM
It's kind of cool to watch a fleet v fleet battle with all of the smoke trails now.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Greebo on July 29, 2010, 03:44:23 AM
I think they should reduce the opacity of the trails. Make the effect more subtle, less solid looking.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Chalenge on July 29, 2010, 04:57:52 AM
I believe the intent is to keep the fleet from going 'spook' and avoiding a fight. The idea is to fight... right?  :salute
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: 321BAR on July 29, 2010, 06:24:33 AM
I believe the intent is to keep the fleet from going 'spook' and avoiding a fight. The idea is to fight... right?  :salute
since when have CVs historically looked for a sea battle? :headscratch:
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Rino on July 29, 2010, 06:32:49 AM
     Where else would carriers battle? Drydock?  :D
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: 321BAR on July 29, 2010, 06:33:50 AM
    Where else would carriers battle? Drydock?  :D
my hint...LOOKED for one. the CV group avoided the ship to ship battles we see in AH unlike TGs without CVs
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: caldera on July 29, 2010, 07:13:15 AM
I think they should reduce the opacity of the trails. Make the effect more subtle, less solid looking.

Good idea. The trails look like bug plasma from Starship Troopers.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: groundfeeder on July 29, 2010, 08:19:39 AM
Every thing HTC has done in the last patch is to promote furballing.....can't even somewhat sneak up on anything anymore.

Might as well put up a big bright arrow over the CV! :furious
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: fudgums on July 29, 2010, 08:22:59 AM
Every thing HTC has done in the last patch is to promote furballing.....can't even somewhat sneak up on anything anymore.

Might as well put up a big bright arrow over the CV! :furious

lol
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: lulu on July 29, 2010, 08:31:34 AM
Trails,

10+  :aok
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: waystin2 on July 29, 2010, 08:32:26 AM
I like it.  For spotting shells and such.  It reminds me of Missle Command a bit...
(http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~carlson/personal/games/opengl_missile_command.jpg)
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: PanosGR on July 29, 2010, 09:09:03 AM
I like it.  For spotting shells and such.  It reminds me of Missle Command a bit...
(http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~carlson/personal/games/opengl_missile_command.jpg)

used to be one of my favorit games  :aok
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: grumpy37 on July 29, 2010, 09:25:13 AM


I doubt HTC would purposely do something that's unrealistic.

So bushes did flip Tigers in the war...?   ;)
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: caldera on July 29, 2010, 09:56:30 AM
So bushes did flip Tigers in the war...?   ;)

That was bushes fault too.  ;) 



Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: dud on July 29, 2010, 10:53:08 AM
I watched frigates and cruisers fire live and training rounds from 5" guns and watched the Wisconsin do a broadside once and never saw any trails, other than the muzzle smoke of course. Remember stories from grunts calling in 16" fire that you could hear the whistle before impact, then the ground heave as the round landed but never any contrail stories.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 29, 2010, 12:13:08 PM
since when have CVs historically looked for a sea battle? :headscratch:

Battle of the Coral Sea and Midway are just two of many examples.


ack-ack
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: mechanic on July 29, 2010, 12:31:44 PM
the first time i saw one I was flying at 14,000ft in an F4u-4. It came up from a hidden CV and first saw it as it was climbing past me. I thought it was a UFO and tried to chase it but it was way too fast and vanished over the horizon. I was convinced it was a UfO and saved the film. Only later to see a close up CV battle and firgure out the mystery.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Traveler on July 29, 2010, 12:39:05 PM
There are countless reams of film footage of battleships firing their main guns and I have yet to see any "trails" of any type. :salute

RealDeal

I was present at a location in VietNam while the USS New Jersey was performing a firing mission on some poor bastards inland from my location.  The air was very warm and thick.  You could see what appeared to be a vapor trail for at least part of the flight of the round,  as the round traveled up its trajectory.  The round is traveling at 2690 Ft per Second that’s better than twice the speed of sound.  It’s a large round, perhaps 2500 lb or better.  I got to think that moving that fast with that much mass, the air that it moves through must suffer the same fate as any large wing moving through the air at altitude and produce a visible vapor trail.  The vapor appears because the wing moving through the air produces a pressure drop and if the Temperature and dew point are close enough , you see vapor.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: dunnrite on July 29, 2010, 12:40:49 PM
That was bushes fault too.  ;) 




:rofl
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Traveler on July 29, 2010, 01:11:09 PM
Battle of the Coral Sea and Midway are just two of many examples.


ack-ack

Midway, the US and nme CV groups were never closer than about 250 miles. 
Coral Sea, was a little closer and Flecher was recalled to Perl got to think it was to explain the loss of the Lex.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Harp00n on July 29, 2010, 01:35:13 PM
Since we have no rangefinders it´s at least a helpful addition.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 29, 2010, 01:45:12 PM
Midway, the US and nme CV groups were never closer than about 250 miles. 
Coral Sea, was a little closer and Flecher was recalled to Perl got to think it was to explain the loss of the Lex.

Doesn't matter the distance between both CV task forces, the fact is those two battles are just a couple of examples of CV task forces looking for a sea battle.


ack-ack
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Traveler on July 29, 2010, 02:09:44 PM
Doesn't matter the distance between both CV task forces, the fact is those two battles are just a couple of examples of CV task forces looking for a sea battle.


ack-ack

Yes, but in both cases neither was looking to be seen.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 29, 2010, 02:38:16 PM
There is a difference between looking for to engage another task force in battle, and looking for a direct sea battle. The U.S. fleets were looking for the Japanese fleets in order to attack them with their aircraft. They were not looking for the Japanese fleets in order to engage them in a direct sea battle. The U.S. fleets lacked heavy battleships at the time, and would not have fared well at all in a gun duel. Later, when the new U.S. battleships had joined the fleet, and the resurrected ghosts of Pearl Harbor were there as well, Halsey, at least, was actively seeking a direct sea battle and a gun duel with the Japanese.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Crash Orange on July 29, 2010, 03:05:58 PM
Yes, but in both cases neither was looking to be seen.

I think the point got lost somewhere. The trails aren't there because the CV wants to be seen, they're there (partly, anyway) because it doesn't want to be seen but making them more visible is good for gameplay.

Still wish they'd flash the field at 12.5 miles, though - smoke trails don't help if nobody's in the tower because there's no reason to suspect the base is under attack. (The Navy did have surface search radar back then, you know...)

As for realism, yeah, they look too much like rockets, but I like not-too-real trails better than none at all. And one thing they make up for is the visibility of the gun flashes from big guns, which isn't really modeled in the game. (Now all we need is a BB task force!)

(http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v113/crackthelens/art/broadside.jpg)
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Vinkman on July 29, 2010, 03:13:24 PM
how about some High altitude vapor trails that fade out like the shells do and  some wingtip vortices when someone is pulling High G!  


+1  :aok
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Slate on July 29, 2010, 03:41:26 PM
  I miss the torpedo trails. Don't know where the heck those things go now.  :uhoh

 
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: IronDog on July 29, 2010, 04:44:39 PM
I observed the 60th VC Battalion getting pummeled by the USS Galveston,a CA.,during Operation Starlite,a few years back.I didn't see any rocket like streamers on their broadsides as they came in.I seen artillery rounds from the 12th Marines chewing up the VC,but no trails from rounds.Thats my 2 cents.I think the rocket like rounds coming from the CV group look dorky.I could care less about giving away the location of the CV group.
Dobe
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Rino on July 29, 2010, 04:50:37 PM
Every thing HTC has done in the last patch is to promote furballing.....can't even somewhat sneak up on anything anymore.

Might as well put up a big bright arrow over the CV! :furious

     Yeah, cause EVERYONE knows that no one would pay attention to 8 inch shells exploding all over the
place unless there were vapor trails to spot them coming in  :rolleyes:  I know it's hard to grasp, but
when you are shelling a target, the time for "stealth" is over.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: E25280 on July 29, 2010, 06:27:41 PM
I haven't seen anyone give the most obvious answer to this change . . .

It is to stop all the whining of "teh spiez in the SB not firing at the CV".  Now you will be able to clearly see that they are indeed shooting.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Spikes on July 30, 2010, 07:57:54 PM
Every thing HTC has done in the last patch is to promote furballing.....can't even somewhat sneak up on anything anymore.

Might as well put up a big bright arrow over the CV! :furious
Don't give him any ideas. LOL.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: AWwrgwy on July 31, 2010, 08:28:17 AM
I haven't seen anyone give the most obvious answer to this change . . .

It is to stop all the whining of "teh spiez in the SB not firing at the CV".  Now you will be able to clearly see that they are indeed shooting.

+1

I was thinking that exactly the other night as I saw the SB fire.

"Look, there is someone in there shooting"


wrongway
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: hitech on July 31, 2010, 11:17:07 AM
wrgwy touched on it, there have many many requests for some kind of system to track your shells.  Prior to the update, it was very difficult to tell what shells were your own while firing at a target.  This system allows you to track the shells and figure out what adjustments need to be made to your shot.  I don't think it's a perfect system, can they not design it so that only the shooter can see them?  Anyway, as ThndrEGG said, it's probably a concession to improve game play.

This is the reason they were put back in.

HiTech
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: Masherbrum on July 31, 2010, 11:19:05 AM
This is the reason they were put back in.

HiTech

Awesome.   I'm glad they can now "track", but "give up their firing" as a consequence.   Fair trade off and it does look awesome from the air.
Title: Re: The new CV guns
Post by: groundfeeder on July 31, 2010, 12:53:05 PM
Awesome.   I'm glad they can now "track", but "give up their firing" as a consequence.   Fair trade off and it does look awesome from the air.

OK got me there.....it does LOOK awesome! and after further review it is easier to zero in on targets, but it is still easier to track the cv....oh well guess it is a wash in retrospect!