Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Kazaa on August 02, 2010, 10:38:18 AM
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So I was trying out my new MSFFB2 and I found when blipping the trigger my FPS drops like a brick. I avarage around 150FPS when FFB isn't active.
FFB active: blip the trigger and I get 30-40FPS
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2010-08-0216-56-05-08.png)
FFB not active: blip the trigger and only a small drop in FPS.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2010-08-0216-55-49-49.png)
Also note that when I activate FFB and sit on the runway I loose around 40-50FPS.
All I have to say is WTF and does anyone else have this problem?
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System Information
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Time of this report: 8/2/2010, 17:03:16
Machine name: LUKE-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_rtm.090713-1255)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 07/23/09 18:29:19 Ver: 08.00.15
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.7GHz
Memory: 6144MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 6136MB RAM
Page File: 2548MB used, 9719MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7600.16385 32bit Unicode
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
Sound Tab 3: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
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Display Devices
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Card name: ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: ATI display adapter (0x6899)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6899&SUBSYS_E140174B&REV_00
Display Memory: 3807 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1004 MB
Shared Memory: 2803 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: G2420HDBL
Monitor Id: BNQ785F
Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
Output Type: DVI
Driver Name: aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx32,aticfx32,aticfx32,atiumd64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atiumdag,atidxx32,atidxx32,atiumdva,atiumd6a.cap,atitmm64.dll
Driver File Version: 8.17.0010.0024 (English)
Driver Version: 8.732.0.0
DDI Version: 10.1
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 5/5/2010 03:18:36, 584704 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: n/a
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-2BD9-11CF-E374-4AC1BEC2C535}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x6899
SubSys ID: 0xE140174B
Revision ID: 0x0000
Driver Strong Name: oem2.inf:ATI.Mfg.NTamd64.6.1:ati2mtag_Evergreen:8.732.0.0:pci\ven_1002&dev_6899
Rank Of Driver: 00E62001
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C
Deinterlace Caps: {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
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{5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x32315659) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
{3C5323C1-6FB7-44F5-9081-056BF2EE449D}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
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{6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
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D3D9 Overlay: Not Supported
DXVA-HD: Not Supported
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
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Ok it doesn't just happen when I fire, any force feedback effect has the same massive frame rate drop. :cry
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Ok it doesn't just happen when I fire, any force feedback effect has the same massive frame rate drop. :cry
I loled a bit your worst frame rate still beats my very highest by 10 :lol
Gonna plug mine in here and have a look at my frame rates as well bro. Last patch done something to the MS FF2 I have no idea what.
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What color is the light on your stick btw?
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Red, don't tell me the stick was sold to me fubard.
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Red, don't tell me the stick was sold to me fubard.
Nah I can just remember some being green but I'm not sure if thats just the american version :headscratch: mines red.
From start up if I lay the stick to one side without touching it and boot up aces high it will start to centre itself by itself in a twitchy fashion. In game I have NO weapons effects no matter how much put the FF up by, I have got stall buffet.
The patch has seriously fubared something :mad:
My FPS was unaffected but then again I'm using crappy on board graphics of a sony laptop m8
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The last patch was a joke, I found so many bugs.
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Well found an old AH setup and installed the old version AH2160 tested it and everything works hunky dory with the stick :rolleyes:
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I tested FFB in other games, it doesn't affect my frame rate...
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I tested (offline) with my MS SW FFB2 (green light). While the fps drop when firing the guns (in my case from 85 down to as little as 50) the FFB makes no difference; i.e. the drop is exactly the same with the FFB on or off. (When on, I had gun effects on for testing). I presume, in my case, the drop is from the muzzle flash rendering.
I have noticed a different bug: the trim slider has no effect on centering stiffness for ack guns or vehicle steering and the force is very high, perhaps max. However, if you turn FFB off then turn it back on, the force drops to what it used to be and it works normally.
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I also notice, and I'm not sure if this is a bug or limitation of the hardware so please bare with me here. All my force feedback effects fail when I roll the plane left or right, or pull any diagonal combination on the stick. The effects work fine alone the vertical axis or when the stick is centered.
If you want to test it yourself just fire and roll the plane, or fire and roll while pulling up. Absolutely nothing.
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Another thing I've noticed: Every time I start the game up my stick is really stiff, I have to uncheck and recheck the FFB effect before It goes back to normal. :rolleyes:
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I also notice, and I'm not sure if this is a bug or limitation of the hardware so please bare with me here. All my force feedback effects fail when I roll the plane left or right, or pull any diagonal combination on the stick. The effects work fine alone the vertical axis or when the stick is centered.
If you want to test it yourself just fire and roll the plane, or fire and roll while pulling up. Absolutely nothing.
I tested my stick in another game, the above isn't limited in anyway by the hardware but rather the FFB code used in game.
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I believe the red light ones were later versions. I used to have the greeny/yellow light.
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Another bug found.
Each plane has a different level of force feedback when guns are fired. For example: La7 has almost none, P47 has crazy amount.
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How long has it been since microsoft supported the sidewinder ffb ?
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what happens if you enbale combat trim during this testing? If you get a moment factor that in.
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How long has it been since microsoft supported the sidewinder ffb ?
Works with windows 7 just fine, in other games that is.
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Is there a chance that anyone from HTC could let me know if these bugs are going to be looked at before next patch release? I can't do a table top review of the MSFFB2 until that happens.
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:pray
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Kaz, it's possible that if no one else is reporting said issue with other joysticks, the problem is the model of joystick you're using...which means it's not an AH bug.
And I don't see anyone else reporting an issue like that anywhere in the forums.
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lol
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lol
lol what? I suffer no FR loss with force feedback enabled on my system... but I use a G940... but still.. this tells me it's not an AH problem (or mine would do it too).
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Didn't Pyro buy an MS FFB2 for testing? that's what I was told anyway.
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lol what? I suffer no FR loss with force feedback enabled on my system... but I use a G940... but still.. this tells me it's not an AH problem (or mine would do it too).
Kaz, it's possible that if no one else is reporting said issue with other joysticks, the problem is the model of joystick you're using...which means it's not an AH bug.
And I don't see anyone else reporting an issue like that anywhere in the forums.
I've tested both of my MSFFB2's in other games that support FFB. It works perfectly. I have no FPS drop and full vibration effects throughout the whole range of motion.
Even though the MSFFB2 isn't in production anymore it's still the best FFB stick around and many people still use their's today.
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lol what? I suffer no FR loss with force feedback enabled on my system... but I use a G940... but still.. this tells me it's not an AH problem (or mine would do it too).
So you have a logitech stick and the force feedback works on that and your reasoning is that because your stick works thats the only thing that matters and it is therefore not an Aces High bug? :rolleyes: If you have nothing more constructive to contribute then don't reply its not a 'my logitech stick isn't working thread'...is it? :rolleyes:
He loled because of
Kaz, it's possible that if no one else is reporting said issue with other joysticks, the problem is the model of joystick you're using...which means it's not an AH bug.
And I don't see anyone else reporting an issue like that anywhere in the forums.
When 715 and myself had reported the same problems in a 2 page thread ie he didn't bother reading the thread before posting just like you...
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All I am saying is that if it were a FF issue, then everyone with FF sticks would be having this issue, at least with my understanding. Now you're right that the problem possibly might be in how AH communicates the FF with the MSFFB2 stick, but the fact remains that the MSFFB2 stick *IS* indeed obsolete, regardless of how great it is and how popular it is.
I would hope that if it is a known issue with the AH staff, then likely they'll have it fixed next patch... but even if they choose not to fix it (*IF* it is an AH bug in the first place) I can't really blame them, considering the stick isn't even made anymore.
I can also tell you the being rude to other people and ridiculing HT and their methods (and I quote "The last patch was a joke, I found so many bugs." and "lol" at the possibility that this might NOT be an AH bug) is just going to make them that much LESS INCLINED to help you with your problems... ESPECIALLY using an obsolete piece of hardware.
By the way I used to have one of those sticks awhile back and the thing was a absolute joke.. but to each their own.
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LOL
The last patch did have a lot of bugs...
Doesn't AH2 support any stick which shows up in windows?
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LOL
The last patch did have a lot of bugs...
Doesn't AH2 support any stick which shows up in windows?
Yes, as a controller. FF is another animal altogether. Other's have posted more details than I possess in the past, but there are at least 2 API's (completely separate from the DirectX API's used for controllers) that control FF on the various sticks. FWIW, IIRC the MS sticks were known for causing a significant amount of processor utilization, which adversely affected many games of the era - I know mine did.
Please don't get the idea that I'm saying that you are in anyway wrong to bring up the issues, or that you should "simply live with" the problems. Just that FF is a very different situation than general support of a DirectX controller.
Have you done any performance monitoring with and without to see what the processor utilization is in each scenario? If you're maxing processor without FF, then I would not be surprised to see a frame rate hit with. The MS API is IIRC something like a softmodem - all the effects are generated by high priority (or real time?) threads that use the processor to generate all the effects. This was a big disappointment for me when I replaced my failing Logitech Wingman Force stick with an MSFF2, because the impact was VERY noticable.
<S>
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When 715 and myself had reported the same problems in a 2 page thread ie he didn't bother reading the thread before posting just like you...
Oh geez, here we go (forum snob mode engaged). First and foremost Pervert, if the stick in question and/or the issue were as common with the players in AH as you and Kazaa seem to believe, there would be a lot more people posting on it right now, i.e. more than just Kazaa. I did a search before my initial response, and the last report of an issue with the Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro FFB was 2006 v2.08. Your 2 page post didn't show up.
If you do an idiotweb search on the stick, one of the first articles that pops up is an old Microsoft support article regarding problems with the non-USB version of the stick and certain sound cards/game ports in Win2000, XP and Vista. More granular searches regarding the USB version of the stick shows a mulitude of various incompatibilities being reported across the idiotweb, most especially with Windows 7. So once again we come down to "it's not my computer".
So now let's get down to some of the obvious...
Didn't Pyro buy an MS FFB2 for testing? that's what I was told anyway.
Even if Pyro did buy one of those sticks for testing, don't you find it a bit strange that neither he nor any other HTC staff member has even acknowledged this discussion in the 2 weeks since it was orginally posted? There is also the fact that whatever computer Pyro hooked the stick up to, it's not going to have the same internal hardware as Kazaa's which can and will make a difference. Now let's look at Kazaa's dxdiag...
Available OS Memory: 6136MB RAM
Page File: 2548MB used, 9719MB available
If that is the size of Kazaa's paging file before starting AH and whatever else he has running in the background while playing, there are way too many processes running. With 6GB of RAM on a fresh boot running as lean as possible, your paging file should be around ~1.6GB with AH running. Working on the assumption that you disabled all of the processes recommended in this post:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.0.html)
You still have a memory utilization issue with that big of a swap file running.
Not knowing exactly which stick you have, I can't do more granular searches on the idiotweb but I did find something interesting:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/Windows-7/en-us/Browse.aspx?type=Hardware&category=Mice%2c%20Keyboards%20%26%20Input%20Devices&subcategory=Game%20Controllers&compat=incompat&os=64-bit (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/Windows-7/en-us/Browse.aspx?type=Hardware&category=Mice%2c%20Keyboards%20%26%20Input%20Devices&subcategory=Game%20Controllers&compat=incompat&os=64-bit)
It is possible that the information is incorrect but it does raise more questions in my mind.
And this little oddity from your dxdiag report has me puzzled since it is a compatibility layer of DirectX although there may not be any correlation to the issue at hand:
D3D9 Overlay: Not Supported
DXVA-HD: Not Supported
Kazaa, would it be possible for you to post the exact model number of that joystick? I'll do some more digging as time permits.
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Thanks for the help guys. :salute
My computer isn't even a year old yet, it's a top of the range gaming system. I did a fresh instal 2 months ago.
When I posted the DXDiag I had a load of programs running. My page file is around 1.5Gb on boot. I should disable some of the crap I don't need but I never seem to get around to doing so.
Like I said before: I can use both of my MSFFB2's without any problems in every game I play other then Aces High. Even Dirt2, a driving game, supports the stick perfectly. All benchmarks tests were carried out by fraps, frame rate never changed.
I'm going to try using the stick on another setup, see if I can replicate the problem.
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All I am saying is that if it were a FF issue, then everyone with FF sticks would be having this issue, at least with my understanding. Now you're right that the problem possibly might be in how AH communicates the FF with the MSFFB2 stick, but the fact remains that the MSFFB2 stick *IS* indeed obsolete, regardless of how great it is and how popular it is.
I would hope that if it is a known issue with the AH staff, then likely they'll have it fixed next patch... but even if they choose not to fix it (*IF* it is an AH bug in the first place) I can't really blame them, considering the stick isn't even made anymore.
I can also tell you the being rude to other people and ridiculing HT and their methods (and I quote "The last patch was a joke, I found so many bugs." and "lol" at the possibility that this might NOT be an AH bug) is just going to make them that much LESS INCLINED to help you with your problems... ESPECIALLY using an obsolete piece of hardware.
By the way I used to have one of those sticks awhile back and the thing was a absolute joke.. but to each their own.
Contridicting yourself just makes you look like a liar, the rest of the post is bollocks no ones being rude to HTC
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Nitpicking is even worse... excuse me.. what I *SHOULD* have said was "regardless of how great some people THINK it is".
And yes, you ARE being rude to HTC, and other players. I feel sorry for you, I really do.
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Nitpicking is even worse... excuse me.. what I *SHOULD* have said was "regardless of how great some people THINK it is".
And yes, you ARE being rude to HTC, and other players. I feel sorry for you, I really do.
Save your pity for someone who'll appreciate your amatuer psychology moments. You have nothing constructive to say here apart from stirring the pot.
Oh and btw are you tigg3r in game by any chance?
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HTC, I would be more than happy to send my MSFFB(Red) if you need one for testing.
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Honestly Kazaa, the problem most likely lies with the Force Factory 5.0 API that is used by the MS force feedback sticks. I don't even think this API has even been updated for XP and later OS's and it has always been a terrible drain on CPU resources.
ack-ack
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Honestly Kazaa, the problem most likely lies with the Force Factory 5.0 API that is used by the MS force feedback sticks. I don't even think this API has even been updated for XP and later OS's and it has always been a terrible drain on CPU resources.
ack-ack
Interesting, could you eleborate on this Force Factory ack ack? The problem I have is that mine worked before the update and now doesn't work the same, and I have to go through an eleborate disabling re enabling process to get it working right(ish). I could understand if I had say switched to a new OS but in my simplistic terms all I see is it worked this way and after the update it now works in a worse way.
:salute
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I managed to test my MSFFB2 on another system today, all the problems which I posted in this thread were present on that machine.
OS was Windows 7.