Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Imowface on August 06, 2010, 06:35:07 PM
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So, Americans used zinc chromite to rust proof the inside of their planes, that's what the green paint on the inside of us cockpits is, not as I am sure more than 90% of you know that, what do Japanese planes have in there cockpit that gives it the teal color, irl as well, is this zinc chromite, just with a different color added to it, or is this another rust proofing chemical?
thanks
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If I may...
First, Aluminum does not rust, it corrodes to fine white powder (in most cases)...the boon of all things aviation related.
Second, The color of the interior of U.S. cockpits varied over the 4 years the United States was involved in WWII. The color was not titled "zinc chromate yellow" or green....just zinc chromate. You'll find both yellow and green in many U.S. WWII era aircraft depending on whether or not the area in question is exposed to the elements or not. Incidentally, "zinc chromate green" is made by combining black with the natural yellow of the zinc chromate...it was tinted in response to a military order IIRC. Consequently, there were many shades of interior green that meet the specifications issued by the U.S. Military. P-47's built by Republic in Farmingdale and Evansville had dull dark green cockpits, nowhere near the color of what you think of as interior green (similar to FS 34092). Only the P-47G's built by Curtiss in Buffalo, NY came with cockpits painted with the interior green color (FS 34151 is a good example). Those P-47's were of substandard quality and were never issued to fighting units, they remained in the United States as training aircraft.
Third, The color of Japanese aircraft cockpits varied greatly during that same time. The A6M Reisen cockpit color varied by manufacturer, Mitsubishi being a green similar to the U.S. interior green and Nakajima built examples being a lighter grey-green color. No A6M ever had an aotake cockpit which is the light blue-green that we see in the cockpit of the A6M in game. Kawanishi N1K aircraft had a medium-dark green that the in-game aircraft captures fairly well. the Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien has a tan colored cockpit (similar to the Luftwaffe RLM 79) that the in-game aircraft captures well. Ki-84 aircraft had three different colors in the cockpit depending on when it was built. The first 250 preproduction aircraft were built with Aotake (blue-green) cockpits. The mid-late war Ki-84 Hayate had dark green cockpits similiar to the exterior green of the airframe. The last examples were built without any interior paint whatsoever; they were delivered with natural metal cockpits, some having red oxide primer seats. I am not familiar with the interior of the Ki-67 but since it was made by Mitsubishi, it probably had a medium green interior similar to what the A6M had. That is a guess on my part, it could be almost anything.
Aotake, or the blue-green translucent laquer corrosion preventative was used throughout the Japanese aircraft industry in all areas of the aircraft but was overpainted in cockpit and wheel well areas again, depending on the make and model aircraft. No, it would not be seen if the green paint wore off, it disappeared with the paint and left the bare aluminum behind.
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Ah I see, and yes I know that aluminum doesnt rust, I have a bad habbit of saying rust protection when I talk about zinc chromate, I also noticed you said it was applied to areas depending on if its exposed to the elements, on I B-25 D that I am restoring at the museum I voulenter at, the entire interior is Zinc chromate, either that or its been painted the same shade of green by the factory.
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The 25 may have been painted after the war in an attempt to prevent the fuselage from corroding.... Or, it may be a case of North American decided to paint the interior of the aircraft in green zinc. There is no "one explanation fits all" I'm afraid. For every rule there seems to be an exception during that time.... I guess that is what I was trying to communicate with my first post about U.S. interior colors. I may have done a better job with this post.
I hope your restoration facility works very carefully and cautiously, especially if the aircraft has the possibility of having the original paint on it from when it was manufactured.
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well, the City of Edmonton squadron B-25's were plane metal, unfortunately, she will never fly, as when the museum got the plane, it had been used as a parts plane for a fleet of water bomber B-25's, the wings were purchased from an outfit in California and are too corroded to pass an inspection, it is still going to be restored to original specs though, and the engines will run, it will just be grounded
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EDO is correct. Zinc Chromate is a yellowish green color that was applied to the interior of most early war aircraft. Cockpit Green was mixed as needed at the factory by adding black pigment to zinc chromate per a mixing schedule. It was a very liberal mixing measure which allowed many different shades of cockpit green. In aircraft (liek the Mustang) that had components like stringers that were used in the wing and fuselage, they deferred to the cockpit green which mean yellow zinchromate skins and other assemblies went into the wing, with green stringers. It really stood out in the wheel wells.
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Japs borrowed idea from Chinese and mixed MSG in the paint. Since MSG doesn't break down, plane is essentially rust proof. Only down side is Jap pilots suffered bad headaches.
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Japs borrowed idea from Chinese and mixed MSG in the paint. Since MSG doesn't break down, plane is essentially rust proof. Only down side is Jap pilots suffered bad headaches.
so thats why i never make it back to base :D :rolleyes: :rofl
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I know for certain that American aircraft varied on the manufacturer. Vought's zinc chromate was much more yellow. F4U cockpits tended to be bare zinc chromate for the rear and front bulkheads, and the cockpit tub up to the side consoles. Because of how Vought mixed its primer, the result was yellow on the bulkheads and lower tub (including the flight stick). The sides of the tub above the flight consoles were painted over in green. The yellow-colored zinc chromate was also used on all other interior surfaces (engine cowling, gun bays, landing gear bays, etc). If you ever see an F4U that had wheel bays painted in the same color as the fuselage, that's an aircraft which had undergone repairs and repaints.
Oh, and the "salmon" colored wheel wells of the F4U-1 is a fallacy.
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If I may...
First, Aluminum does not rust, it corrodes to fine white powder (in most cases)...the boon of all things aviation related.
Aluminum does rust, that fine white powder is the result of oxidization(rusting). Nothing to the extent of iron, but it happens and it's worse in certain alloys. You could really say corroding and oxidization are trade off words in this case.
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No, rust is exclusively iron-oxide. Aluminum-oxide is NOT rust. Iron (Fe) and Aluminum (Al) are not the same element and nowhere near each other in atomic composition. I don't know where you got your information from, but it's not valid.
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I know for certain that American aircraft varied on the manufacturer. Vought's zinc chromate was much more yellow. F4U cockpits tended to be bare zinc chromate for the rear and front bulkheads, and the cockpit tub up to the side consoles. Because of how Vought mixed its primer, the result was yellow on the bulkheads and lower tub (including the flight stick). The sides of the tub above the flight consoles were painted over in green. The yellow-colored zinc chromate was also used on all other interior surfaces (engine cowling, gun bays, landing gear bays, etc). If you ever see an F4U that had wheel bays painted in the same color as the fuselage, that's an aircraft which had undergone repairs and repaints.
Oh, and the "salmon" colored wheel wells of the F4U-1 is a fallacy.
Care to post your references for your facts? What about the black paint above the side consoles? Yes, black was a color used on FG-1D's above the side consoles.
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No, rust is exclusively iron-oxide. Aluminum-oxide is NOT rust. Iron (Fe) and Aluminum (Al) are not the same element and nowhere near each other in atomic composition. I don't know where you got your information from, but it's not valid.
Ah I see our problem, see I've always used rust as a common word for oxidization, regardless aluminum does oxidize.
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Care to post your references for your facts? What about the black paint above the side consoles? Yes, black was a color used on FG-1D's above the side consoles.
I'm trying to find the information i used, which was primarily centered on the 1A. And incidentally, you can't use the interior color scheme of the Goodyear-produced FG-1Ds to make a statement of the Vought-produced F4Us. Two entirely different manufacturing plants, with two entirely different internal standards for paint (from what I understand, Vought was particularly notorious for variation in its use of the zinc chromate primer).
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The processes manual only states to paint black on the instrument panel, individual consoles, hood, and the interior surfaces of the canopy. What I have seen is black applied to the cockpit side only after depot level maintenance. That is at the same time they flogged everything blue in the wheel wells an exterior as well.
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Having experience on making aircraft parts for a number of years. The aluminium part is usually plated with a protective coating prior to painting as well.
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That's called alodine.... An acid etch layer of corrosion designed to prevent further corrosion usually 0.002 inches depth (approximately).
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That's called alodine.... An acid etch layer of corrosion designed to prevent further corrosion usually 0.002 inches depth (approximately).
Yep one of many names. :aok
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In the Corsair, the only coatings we usually see are Alclad on the sheet aluminum parts and anodized castings and forgings. Using alodine was a process many restoration shops used for years. The best process is to use means that do not disturb the anodized coating. We have been using plastic media blasting for a couple of years now, and that is a very good way to preserve the anodized coatings.