Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DeltaFox on August 12, 2010, 12:32:01 PM
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The video shows a plane very closely being overloaded taking off below stall speed using flaps deployed just before lifting off the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16gxloNo_Ck&feature=fvw
The included text description by the pilot's kid explains the use of flaps and "Ground Effect" .
My question is:
Is "Ground Effect" considered in the flight model physics programming in Aces High?
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I believe it is, yes.
*edit*
Looking at release notes, ground effect was first introduced in Version 1.03.
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We used to have a much more pronounced ground effect model, but it is still there yes.
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In certain planes..the spit I think is one, I can really feel the ground suck me in. Seems more so in certain planes.
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i always thought ground effect was when you landed your plane, and forgot to put the landing gear down! :D
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We used to have a much more pronounced ground effect model, but it is still there yes.
i don't feel it, although i could be just retrimming for it
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i always thought ground effect was when you landed your plane, and forgot to put the landing gear down! :D
i did that a couple of weeks ago. was talking on local vox, while setting up. remembered everything 'cept the gear. :rofl
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i did that a couple of weeks ago. was talking on local vox, while setting up. remembered everything 'cept the gear. :rofl
That is the #2 rule for a GA (general aviation) pilot.
There are those that have landed without gear and those that will. :aok
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Gound Effect for me= Lawndart
<S> Oz
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When you come in to land and it seems to hold over the ground and not touch down..... ground effect.
Compressing the air. I'm not sure but it seems to be in the game.
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In AH, ground effect is also present on objects such as buildings or trees or a CV. You can notice it when you have a high bank angle during a low alt horizontal turn with a very slow descend rate (if you do it with the outside view, it will not be noticeable). As the inside wing nears the ground (not more than around 5-10ft for most fighters) it will induce a slight roll and slowly bring you back level without compensation. In short, its pretty much a proximity or surface effect. When one of your wing passes just over a mountain/hill top at high speed for example, you will feel a slight "woosh" described by a roll in opposite direction of the affected wing. Try it in the 190 and compare with the Tempest, they will be affected very noticeably.
Some of us air racers have witnessed this effect multiple times because we are used to fly awfully close to ground/object obstacles. When you feel an induced ground effect while you pass an obstacle/turn marker, that means its too close. Same applies for deck fighting.
As for increasing max take off load or decreasing landing speed etc, well... its all pretty obvious.
WW1 aircraft's (or any bi/tri-planes) wings are limited in vertical offset separation in part because of this effect.
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That is the #2 rule for a GA (general aviation) pilot.
There are those that have landed without gear and those that will. :aok
And you know you've landed gear up when you need full power to taxi to the ramp :D
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That is the #2 rule for a GA (general aviation) pilot.
There are those that have landed without gear and those that will. :aok
i'll more than likely never have that problem in real life. i don't forsee a time that i can afford to get my complex endorsement.
also, in real life, once i'm on the 45 to enter the pattern, all non-landing talk stops.
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When you come in to land and it seems to hold over the ground and not touch down..... ground effect.
Compressing the air. I'm not sure but it seems to be in the game.
when i flare, i don't float very far at all.
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when i flare, i don't float very far at all.
For a constant speed & slow sink rate, you will. If AH had helicopters, no one would think ground effect does not exist.
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And you know you've landed gear up when you need full power to taxi to the ramp :D
funny thing......an instructor(pretty much a kid) pulled the throttle, and gave me a simulated engine failure. i was directly over the approach of a private runway. i was too low to circle, i never go away from a known good landing area for these. so i did what i honestly am very very uncomfortable doing in real life.......i slipped the airplane in. the dude took the controls at about 150 feet, and started screaming at me for slipping it.
i really didn't understand why, as i had the runway made. i asked my regular instructor when he came back from vacation, and he said it was the right thing to do.
the dude that yelled at me landed one of the twins gear up about a month after that incident. it had 2 brand new engines on it too. :bolt:
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The AR-234 seems to float like crazy in ground effect. I made an approach (to a vbase) at 100 IAS, side-slipping, and still had to use a building to stop me. Unfortunately, it was fatal.
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funny thing......an instructor(pretty much a kid) pulled the throttle, and gave me a simulated engine failure. i was directly over the approach of a private runway. i was too low to circle, i never go away from a known good landing area for these. so i did what i honestly am very very uncomfortable doing in real life.......i slipped the airplane in. the dude took the controls at about 150 feet, and started screaming at me for slipping it.
i really didn't understand why, as i had the runway made. i asked my regular instructor when he came back from vacation, and he said it was the right thing to do.
the dude that yelled at me landed one of the twins gear up about a month after that incident. it had 2 brand new engines on it too. :bolt:
What??? Why would he yell at you for slipping it? I always liked slipping it on final (when the situation called for it), and my instructor didn't have any issues with it.
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What??? Why would he yell at you for slipping it? I always liked slipping it on final (when the situation called for it), and my instructor didn't have any issues with it.
that was why i never flew with him again....that, and the no gear landing.
when i need to fly with an instructor now, i fly with a guy from the club i joined.
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LOL, i remember the first time my instructor cut the power and said simulated engine failure.... I looked at her and put the throttle back on and told her simulated mid air engine repair... She almost died laughing.
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LOL, i remember the first time my instructor cut the power and said simulated engine failure.... I looked at her and put the throttle back on and told her simulated mid air engine repair... She almost died laughing.
Classic! :rofl
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:lol i know that ground effect affects the spit upon landing as when you lower the flaps ( all the bloody thing want's to do is go nose up :eek: :lol ) as i believe that with being only 1 stage flaps i.e they are either up or doon. And when down they act more like air-brake's than flap's :lol but on take-off i believe the spit has little or no ground effect as you dont use the flaps on take-off :)
But hey someone will come along AND CORRECT ME :lol
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LOL, i remember the first time my instructor cut the power and said simulated engine failure.... I looked at her and put the throttle back on and told her simulated mid air engine repair... She almost died laughing.
lol.. you should have said "OK, its not my plane"
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And you know you've landed gear up when you need full power to taxi to the ramp :D
So that's what that grinding and scraping noise was?
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A flight instructor at the airport where I used to go fired up a cirrus sr22 and taxied it into a parked tug totally destroying the prop
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What??? Why would he yell at you for slipping it? I always liked slipping it on final (when the situation called for it), and my instructor didn't have any issues with it.
Possibly because the POH for the aircraft stated no slips with flaps deployed. Many do.
Probably though, he was just not a very good CFI. I know many sailing instructors who were really not very good sailors. I assume the same is true of CFIs.
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that was why i never flew with him again....that, and the no gear landing.
when i need to fly with an instructor now, i fly with a guy from the club i joined.
:airplane: Got my PP in 1965 and instructors in 1976 and been flying my RV-6 for almost 22 years. A while back I needed a flight review and my regular instructor I usually use was not available so I went to the local
pilot factory and got a instructor that was still wet behind the ears. First thing he yelled about was I did not have my nose right in the painted center line as i was taxiing out and I might hit a airplane along the side line if I didn't
keep the airplane right on the painted center line. I asked him what should I do if I was to land on a runway that did not have a painted center line, he didn't have an answer. Second thing he wanted a stall did not specify if it was full or eminent stall so I pulled the nose fairly steep and did a really nice full stall. I really thought the kid was going to wet his pants, he yelled and screamed that I didn't know how to do stalls and you should never ever do a full stall.
He said they were not even taught at the school he learned at.
Then they wonder why general aviation accident rates are so high instructors now days barely know how to fly themselves.
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LOL, i remember the first time my instructor cut the power and said simulated engine failure.... I looked at her and put the throttle back on and told her simulated mid air engine repair... She almost died laughing.
I did that the other day when i had a simulated engine failure, He cut the power and i went through my emergency procedures
Checked fuel selector, Checked Mixture, and checked throttle "Oh theres the problem!" And I started climbing out. He had a quick laugh, then made me do it again :(
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LOL, i remember the first time my instructor cut the power and said simulated engine failure.... I looked at her and put the throttle back on and told her simulated mid air engine repair... She almost died laughing.
:aok :rofl :aok
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Possibly because the POH for the aircraft stated no slips with flaps deployed. Many do.
Probably though, he was just not a very good CFI. I know many sailing instructors who were really not very good sailors. I assume the same is true of CFIs.
i think slips on cessnas are prohibited with more than 20 degrees of flaps.....i don't have the poh handy, and can't recall off the top of my head.......
and, yes, you are right about some cfi's being good, and others not. my primary cfi was a great guy. i liked him a lot. the problem was he only taught what was necessary to get me passed my checkride. nothing more, nothing less.
the guy i fly with now, teaches as if he was teaching his own son. i like that teaching style better. even when i've flown with him not as a student, it ends up being a lesson anyway. great guy, and at this point, i almost don't want to fly with anyone else.
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:airplane: Got my PP in 1965 and instructors in 1976 and been flying my RV-6 for almost 22 years. A while back I needed a flight review and my regular instructor I usually use was not available so I went to the local
pilot factory and got a instructor that was still wet behind the ears. First thing he yelled about was I did not have my nose right in the painted center line as i was taxiing out and I might hit a airplane along the side line if I didn't
keep the airplane right on the painted center line. I asked him what should I do if I was to land on a runway that did not have a painted center line, he didn't have an answer. Second thing he wanted a stall did not specify if it was full or eminent stall so I pulled the nose fairly steep and did a really nice full stall. I really thought the kid was going to wet his pants, he yelled and screamed that I didn't know how to do stalls and you should never ever do a full stall.
He said they were not even taught at the school he learned at.
Then they wonder why general aviation accident rates are so high instructors now days barely know how to fly themselves.
bolded.....THAT is very frightening. top that off with the terafugia getting certified......... :noid
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The video shows a plane very closely being overloaded taking off below stall speed using flaps deployed just before lifting off the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16gxloNo_Ck&feature=fvw
I've seen several people try to do a flaps down take-off but leave ground effect too soon. They stall out right after they leave ground effect and slam back down on the runway. Scary to watch.
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Holiday Inn Express are nice to stay at, but I only fly in sims.
Landing a AR-234 requires just one notch of flaps and line up way back and bring her in slow at just about stall speed.
I had quite a few perks in my other user name and burned up a few learning to fly the jets. My 1st 234 landing was with full flaps and that sucker never wanted to come down.
And, if you are learning, just take one 234 up, not 3, does get expensive. I do go to the training area 1st to get a feel for the plane, but I like the relative realism of the arenas and see the results of my mistakes.
The jet fighter still surprises me at times.
I am just about age 60 and definitely not as sharp mentally or physically as I once was. Have thought about going and take real flight lessons propeller or sailplane but it still scares me. 1965 I remember the local dirt strip airport would get you 1st solo training for just a $100, about a weeks wages, then.
A few years ago, a guy my age, his wife got him lessons as a birthday present. The instructor was not all that qualified and did not allow enough altitude to do a loop. Sad, they plowed into the ground out in the farm fields, killing them both. Makes me wonder what the instructor training process is like?
I always have suspected ground effect existed in the game. A fully loaded out F4U-D needs full flaps off the cv. Coming in to land a F4U with full flaps, it never seems to want to come down even with the stall horn sounding.
Similar to the video I posted, if I use one notch flaps with fighters to take off, I deploy them about 100 mph and up flaps at 500 feet. I don't use flaps to take off with the bombers, it seems detrimental.
But I am still learning.
The AR-234 seems to float like crazy in ground effect. I made an approach (to a vbase) at 100 IAS, side-slipping, and still had to use a building to stop me. Unfortunately, it was fatal.
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here's one that should never have been attempted.
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...A fully loaded out F4U-D needs full flaps off the cv....
Try it with two - at most three - notches of flaps. With full flaps, you are creating more drag than lift. Good for landing, not so much for takeoff.
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The older game required full flaps off the cv fully loaded out in F4U-D or I ended up swimming. Maybe it has changed. Old habit.
Try it with two - at most three - notches of flaps. With full flaps, you are creating more drag than lift. Good for landing, not so much for takeoff.
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Don't start deploying your flaps until your almost to the end of the cv. You'll go faster and it doesnt spin out as easy.
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The older game required full flaps off the cv fully loaded out in F4U-D or I ended up swimming. Maybe it has changed. Old habit.
Naw, it's always taken two notches to up anything off the CV but it takes a tad of practice.
Make sure you are waiting to the last second to drop flaps to get as much speed as possible.
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Don't start deploying your flaps until your almost to the end of the cv. You'll go faster and it doesnt spin out as easy.
I do that with bombers all the time...