Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Bruv119 on August 12, 2010, 03:19:32 PM

Title: Dar bar updates
Post by: Bruv119 on August 12, 2010, 03:19:32 PM
To be returned back to the normal MA settings.

Someone said it is down to a configuration error on certain maps but every map I seem to play on does it.   

It seems to be extremely delayed as in Scenarios.  I'd be thinking no bad guys in this sector and be merrily on my way and find mr uber stick in his chic 16 circling his field 5k (lets say draggon in this example) higher than me. 

Or when i'm RTB with my 20+ kills and stick her on autopilot.  No dar here im safe as houses.  Then have some guy spraying my lazy bellybutton when im paying no attention to the screen.  Has happened twice this tour already!!    :furious

I mean I have no problems with the extended dar circles or the NOE changes I just didn't see this KEY bit of information any where in the release notes (apologies if I missed it.)

For us longer term players who have map reading down to an art form it is really messing with my expectations.  If HTC wants it this way so there is an element of surprise and we have to sit paranoid in our cockpits 24/7 rather than rely on scanty radar information, then i'm cool with that and will suck it up.   If it is fudged however I wish for it to be returned to normal so I can breath easier.   :salute

Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Jayhawk on August 12, 2010, 03:36:52 PM
Agreed, I've seen some weird things with dar.  All I'd like is some consistency, rather than just a guessing game.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Bruv119 on August 12, 2010, 03:42:39 PM
all im asking for Jayhawk!

I mean with the extended dar he knows im coming and exactly where.  I do the decent thing by flying to his base little courtesy of knowing he is there somewhere too would be nice.  Still pwned him tho.

Like the other day we did a fast paced Mossie mission went 8-10k tops and charged at an enemy field.  No dar in enemy grid until visual on field to find 2 LA7's co-alt with a 109 already running for the heavens out the other side of field and 3 gv's already on base / driving to town.  when it updated to double ours I was like   "oh they were expecting us"  and we all died in a glorious fashion.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: RufusLeaking on August 12, 2010, 04:21:32 PM
I've seen some radar anomolies since the radar change, also.  I occassionally run into planes at altitude that show no dar bar in sector.

No clue if it is specific to a map.

Neither the radius of the dar circles nor the lowered dot altitude should have anything to do with the sector dar bar.  The only change is the lowest altitude that determines when one generates a dar bar.

Maybe it happened before the changes and I was not paying attention.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: gyrene81 on August 12, 2010, 08:51:48 PM
Agreed, I've seen some weird things with dar.  All I'd like is some consistency, rather than just a guessing game.
LOL, I think your statement and the OP are saying the direct opposite of what others are saying about the new dar settings.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 08:55:08 PM
LOL, I think your statement and the OP are saying the direct opposite of what others are saying about the new dar settings.



Don't mix up a game bug with the general effects of the new system by design ;)
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: gyrene81 on August 12, 2010, 09:16:15 PM
Don't mix up a game bug with the general effects of the new system by design ;)
How do you know it's a bug? Could be intentional, HTC doesn't tell use everything that goes on behind the scenes.

And I was commenting on Jayhawks use of the word "consistency", when others are wanting the capbility for more randomness...a la holes in the dar.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 09:25:41 PM
How do you know it's a bug? Could be intentional, HTC doesn't tell use everything that goes on behind the scenes.

And I was commenting on Jayhawks use of the word "consistency", when others are wanting the capbility for more randomness...a la holes in the dar.


It is a bug. :) Just like the phantom darbars  and phantom dots we once had every tuesday.

And we "others" are not asking for more randomness. The things you call "holes" in the dar are not random at all.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: gyrene81 on August 12, 2010, 09:47:11 PM
And we "others" are not asking for more randomness. The things you call "holes" in the dar are not random at all.
Yes you are, the "holes" in the dar would allow more random behavior rather than the current dar setup.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 10:12:10 PM
Yes you are, the "holes" in the dar would allow more random behavior rather than the current dar setup.

Now we are getting from random holes to random behaviour... whatever that means  :lol
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Jayhawk on August 12, 2010, 10:16:43 PM
I'm completely confused what the "holes" discussion means.  :lol I just wanted the dar system to be standard, or to at least understand it.  I don't want one person to be able to jump to 10K while the next guy shows dar at 3k, and the next at 500ft.  Just want it to be standardized so it's actually worth something.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: flatiron1 on August 12, 2010, 10:18:42 PM
It was messed up in early war tonight. The enemy dar bar would not indicate planes up until the enemy base flashed it seems.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: 321BAR on August 13, 2010, 04:22:22 PM
what i want are dar blind spots rigged into the terrain mapping... other than that, consistency is necessary
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2010, 09:31:32 PM
None of you really understand the options available.

There is a DELAY in the dar. It used to be 5 or 10 seconds or so. Now it's a minute or two I think.

You're seeing "bugs" that are really late readouts on radar.

Just imagine it takes time for the radar hut screen-readers to relay up the chain of command what he's seeing, for that info to get out to you.

It's part of the balance from the increase in radar coverage (you see more, but it's also delayed from when you see it). It stood out to me rather quickly, and it should to anybody with some FSO or scenario experience, as in those arenas these types of settings find more use.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 13, 2010, 09:42:46 PM
None of you really understand the options available.

There is a DELAY in the dar. It used to be 5 or 10 seconds or so. Now it's a minute or two I think.

You're seeing "bugs" that are really late readouts on radar.

And yes, that's the bug,  particularly as it's not consistent at all. On some days planes make darbar a few moments after they break 500, but I have run into 4 Spit's at 15k(!) with no darbar in sector ;)

Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2010, 09:47:37 PM
The reason they don't show on the dar yet is because there's a long delay. Anything you see is like looking into the past.

Next time you see a plane with no dar bar, look at the map and see in the immediate sectors around you which one has a bar. That's where the plane was some minutes ago. He flew into your sector in less time than it takes the dar to update his position on the map. It's consistent, just a bloody slow delay. You can also see this in effect with dot dar. You can follow a guy on visual range and see his dot elsewhere (where he used to be) as you follow him.

It's just a delayed printout of where all the radar pictures were "X" minutes ago.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 13, 2010, 09:51:04 PM
The reason they don't show on the dar yet is because there's a long delay. Anything you see is like looking into the past.

Next time you see a plane with no dar bar, look at the map and see in the immediate sectors around you which one has a bar. That's where the plane was some minutes ago. You can also see this in effect with dot dar. You can follow a guy on visual range and see his dot elsewhere (where he used to be) as you follow him.

It's just a delayed printout of where all the radar pictures were "X" minutes ago.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

And please go back and read my message again, particularly the word "consistency". Also I did not read any release notes about the addition of a huge, and seemingly random, darbar delay.


Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: 321BAR on August 14, 2010, 01:14:38 PM
And yes, that's the bug,  particularly as it's not consistent at all. On some days planes make darbar a few moments after they break 500, but I have run into 4 Spit's at 15k(!) with no darbar in sector ;)


HTC said that there was a timed delay that lengthens the farther away from a radar tower you are. this would include dar bar IIRC and stretches the map
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 14, 2010, 01:39:31 PM
HTC said that there was a timed delay that lengthens the farther away from a radar tower you are.

Which radar tower? I'm speaking of the sector I'm in, and that had never been a problem. Of course there had always been a delay (kill an enemy and see how long it takes for the darbar to disappear), and for most part is still the same.
But that's the point: "For the most part". Occasionally it is totally off, see the examples described earlier. And it only happens recently. Unless there is a statement "Random & rare darbar delays have been added", it's a bug ;)
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: JunkyII on August 14, 2010, 01:56:03 PM
TonyJoey(the father) said he saw my dar when intercepting him pop 30 seconds before I appeared at 18k above the bombers he was escorting. He almost accused me of cheating but I explained how I have been having problems with the darbar as well not popping up or having a small darbar for 10+ planes....
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Bruv119 on August 17, 2010, 07:01:42 AM
HTC said that there was a timed delay that lengthens the farther away from a radar tower you are. this would include dar bar IIRC and stretches the map

you got a link for that info 321 bar?  this is what Pyro announced

"We're using some new radar settings for the main arenas.

The radar deck has been lowered to 65 feet above ground
level and will require challenging nap of the earth
flying to stay below radar.

Tower based radar range has been increased to 20 miles.
You can view the radar distances right clicking on the
clipboard map and selecting Radar from the display
settings menu."
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Bruv119 on August 17, 2010, 07:09:59 AM
The reason they don't show on the dar yet is because there's a long delay. Anything you see is like looking into the past.

Next time you see a plane with no dar bar, look at the map and see in the immediate sectors around you which one has a bar. That's where the plane was some minutes ago. He flew into your sector in less time than it takes the dar to update his position on the map. It's consistent, just a bloody slow delay. You can also see this in effect with dot dar. You can follow a guy on visual range and see his dot elsewhere (where he used to be) as you follow him.

It's just a delayed printout of where all the radar pictures were "X" minutes ago.

it is an arena setting that we haven't had clarification on.

with the extended dar bar it is only fair that the attackers see that there are planes up because the defenders can basically track them from take off.

needs to be put back the way it was IMO

Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: 321BAR on August 17, 2010, 07:30:06 PM
you got a link for that info 321 bar?  this is what Pyro announced

"We're using some new radar settings for the main arenas.

The radar deck has been lowered to 65 feet above ground
level and will require challenging nap of the earth
flying to stay below radar.

Tower based radar range has been increased to 20 miles.
You can view the radar distances right clicking on the
clipboard map and selecting Radar from the display
settings menu."
i admit i dont remember where i had read this. but from viewing the map. the closer you are the faster the dot shows a movement... you can see this
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 17, 2010, 07:41:58 PM
i admit i dont remember where i had read this. but from viewing the map. the closer you are the faster the dot shows a movement... you can see this

This is a different thing what we are talking about. Of course the rate of update for the dots depends on distance to you - always has been, nothing new, nothing changed.
And of course there always was a small delay in updating darbars, but that never was a distance thing. And it's still the same - just sometimes (It may occur on some maps only) there are suddenly cons in the sector at high altitudes that never made  a darbar. This is happening irregularly.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: 321BAR on August 17, 2010, 07:43:55 PM
This is a different thing what we are talking about. Of course the rate of update for the dots depends on distance to you - always has been, nothing new, nothing changed.
And of course there always was a small delay in updating darbars, but that never was a distance thing. And it's still the same - just sometimes (It may occur on some maps only) there are suddenly cons in the sector at high altitudes that never made  a darbar. This is happening irregularly.
ive personally never seen this so i cant argue for or against it <S>
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Traveler on August 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
First, I like the new radar set up. Second , many people seem to confuse Radar with DarBar, they are two different things.   The Radar shows you the red dot within a radar ring of a active radar.  The DarBar just indicates that there is an nme aircraft or a friendly in the sector. 

I associated the DarBar with ground spotters that would call in aircraft that they had spotted.  Radar of course provided a more accurate representation of the location of the aircraft.

I think that perhaps one improvement that might provide an interesting game play would be if Radar was modeled more accurately as the true line of sight instrument that it was.  Giving the pilots the ability to hide behind mountains  and use hills to mask their approach.   In other words if there is a mountain range between an aircraft and the radar , the aircraft would not appear on Radar until well above the mountain level.  Aircraft flying down a valley would not appear on radar unless the radar had line of sight rage down that valley.
 
I realize that it may not be possible do to coding limitations or complexity.  Perhaps another approach could be found to provide a progressive approach to accuracy of the radar.   I think that on the coasts or flatlands,  within 5 miles of the radar 65 feet is fine,   as you more out and away from the radar the coverage is raised.  Maybe 5.1-15 miles it’s 200 feet,  15.1 to 20 miles it’s 500 feet.  Something to recognize that Radar was not perfect.   Also.  The way radar is spread out in the game it is only  at a base.   When it actually was most often a standalone installation.   You could have less airfields and  more Radar installations.  Allow the radar installations to be captured.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: ImADot on August 18, 2010, 12:35:15 PM
I've been noticing that the darbar appears once a plane gets into the radar ring.  Once his dot shows up, so does the darbar.  Perhaps it's the same even when the radar is down - you can't see the dot, but the darbar only appears once a con hits the radar ring.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Traveler on August 18, 2010, 02:19:34 PM
I've been noticing that the darbar appears once a plane gets into the radar ring.  Once his dot shows up, so does the darbar.  Perhaps it's the same even when the radar is down - you can't see the dot, but the darbar only appears once a con hits the radar ring.

If that is true that would be a major change from the original intent and use of the DarBar.  I don't think it operates that way .  I think if an aircraft is in a sector and above 65 feet they are supposed to show in the DarBar.   The DarBar grows as more aircraft are in the sector above 65 feet.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Lusche on August 18, 2010, 02:26:38 PM
If that is true that would be a major change from the original intent and use of the DarBar.  I don't think it operates that way .  I think if an aircraft is in a sector and above 65 feet they are supposed to show in the DarBar.   The DarBar grows as more aircraft are in the sector above 65 feet.

Darbar alt is still 500ft, that's why NOE's still work - all you gotta do is killing the targets base radar tower first.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: Traveler on August 18, 2010, 02:29:53 PM
Darbar alt is still 500ft, that's why NOE's still work - all you gotta do is killing the targets base radar tower first.

thanks, is it 500ft or 300ft?  I've seen both numbers refered to  but never tested it.

Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: cactuskooler on August 18, 2010, 02:58:05 PM
It seems to be extremely delayed as in Scenarios.  I'd be thinking no bad guys in this sector and be merrily on my way and find mr uber stick in his chic 16 circling his field 5k (lets say draggon in this example) higher than me. 


I'm pretty sure the scenario has a 5 minute delay for dar.
Title: Re: Dar bar updates
Post by: ImADot on August 18, 2010, 03:21:58 PM
If that is true that would be a major change from the original intent and use of the DarBar.  I don't think it operates that way .  I think if an aircraft is in a sector and above 65 feet they are supposed to show in the DarBar.   The DarBar grows as more aircraft are in the sector above 65 feet.

Yeah, I know how it's supposed to operate.  Was in EW...just a squaddie and me (each on different sides) and some zipcode afk in the tower somewhere.  He was 1500+ and I didn't see the darbar until he hit my radar ring.  Same thing when I pushed in towards his base.