Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Flipperk on August 16, 2010, 08:09:03 PM
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Anyone else pondered about this? The color that you see as red is really the color green that I see, but since you grew up to know that color has a specific purpose it would not make difference.
Heres a chart to grasp this question
To Me: To You:
Red looks like Red Red looks like my Green
Green looks like Green Green looks like my Red
Or am I just talking out of my !@# here?
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If your not careful this could lead to an existential dilemma
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I have thought about this, you're not alone. But then I go, but there are just those colors that go better together than others, so surely it's the same. Then I think maybe those color combinations are just socially derived and you're made to believe two colors go together. Then I kind of zone out for a few minutes, then I take some Tylenol.
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You really got to stop smoking that Mexican roach.
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"Here take these...NO WAIT!!! DON'T TAKE THOSE!!! Man, you just ate more acid then anyone I've met in my entire life."
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Heres one thing that always makes me think about .... who came up with all the names for colors, animals, everything we see?
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Heres one thing that always makes me think about .... who came up with all the names for colors, animals, everything we see?
Thousands of years of evolution of language.
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"Here take these...NO WAIT!!! DON'T TAKE THOSE!!! Man, you just ate more acid then anyone I've met in my entire life."
I just watched that last night :rofl :rofl
As for the OP I've thought about it quite a bit actually. I honestly think we all see the same colors (except for the color blind) because we can all agree on the contrasts between light and dark colors.
For example i paint my room white its going to be bright in there. I paint it black and its going to be noticebly darker and all people notice that. My $0.02 anyways
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Heres one thing that always makes me think about .... who came up with all the names for colors, animals, everything we see?
If quarks are the smallest form of matter, then what makes up quarks? Then what makes up that? Ect...
Also if you shrink down to the size to the tip of the needle...the needle is actually flat :)
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If quarks are the smallest form of matter, then what makes up quarks? Then what makes up that? Ect...
Also if you shrink down to the size to the tip of the needle...the needle is actually flat :)
exactly, this subject is something Ive always found interesting, just like the topic, where does the universe end? it boggles the mind
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You really got to stop smoking that Mexican roach.
this.
What colour is grass fools.
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exactly, this subject is something Ive always found interesting, just like the topic, where does the universe end? it boggles the mind
Probably the biggest question I have is what I discovered while studying Mythology in Philosophy.
We consider the Greek Gods to be myths, but yet in 700 BCE, civilization actually believed they were real; will future civilizations consider our God to be just a Myth as well? Could we be mistaken?
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ive thought about this too... in fact last day of school last year i proposed this to my spanish teacher but she didnt follow at first...
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exactly, this subject is something Ive always found interesting, just like the topic, where does the universe end? it boggles the mind
If the universe is expanding, how can it be infinite? If it is limited, what is outside?
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Anyone else pondered about this? The color that you see as red is really the color green that I see, but since you grew up to know that color has a specific purpose it would not make difference.
Heres a chart to grasp this question
To Me: To You:
Red looks like Red Red looks like my Green
Green looks like Green Green looks like my Red
Or am I just talking out of my !@# here?
I have had a few discussions with my friends about that exact same subject and it does boggle my mind. I dont see how anyone could prove or disprove it and it makes it more fun to argue about.
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Probably the biggest question I have is what I discovered while studying Mythology in Philosophy.
We consider the Greek Gods to be myths, but yet in 700 BCE, civilization actually believed they were real; will future civilizations consider our God to be just a Myth as well? Could we be mistaken?
Topics like this is what leads to great discussions, long ago when things could not be scientifically explained, they were thought of as signs from the varies gods in the heavens, examples.. Thunder, Lightning, Earthquakes and so on, back then all of those events were seen as signs from the gods, but today we are all know what makes these occurrences happen thru the teachings we receive growing up, Fasinating stuff
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Topics like this is what leads to great discussions, long ago when things could not be scientifically explained, they were thought of as signs from the varies gods in the heavens, examples.. Thunder, Lightning, Earthquakes and so on, back then all of those events were seen as signs from the gods, but today we are all know what makes these occurrences happen thru the teachings we receive growing up, Fasinating stuff
Exactly, but in fear of getting this thread locked we should leave God at that :pray
What about the universe question Zoom that I brought up a couple of posts ago? I would LOVE to discuss that one.
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you know, that subject has always raised my curiosity, i was told by a teacher long ago that if a person sat down and thought about where the universe ends it would drive a person crazy from the thought process, personally i don't think it does end, its infinite we only know what our probes have found with the data sent back, and i don't know if we even have the engine technology that would push a probe into infinity, the interesting thing is how many years would this take to find the end of the universe, I'm not that scientific of a person, but i just can't believe we are the only ones that occupy this universe, how ever small or Infinite it may be, i don't think we will ever know in our lifetime
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Heres one thing that always makes me think about .... who came up with all the names for colors, animals, everything we see?
All I know is that they obviously named oranges before they named carrots.
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No, we see the same colors, except color blind people who get colors confused or melded. The wave lengths of light aren't going to change person to person.
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No, we see the same colors, except color blind people who get colors confused or melded. The wave lengths of light aren't going to change person to person.
But the eye makeup can :)
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If the universe is expanding, how can it be infinite? If it is limited, what is outside?
Expanding is a bad word, because it raises the inevitable question "into what". Stretching is a better term. It would be impossible to know what the universe, if it was which I don't think it is, expanding into, because it would be another dimension. We cannot see outside the realm of space and time.
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In a Universe that is infinitely large.. anything AND everything.. regardless as to how improbable.. is happening.. at once. There can be no other way.
Ponder about that statement...
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But the eye makeup can :)
Color blind people being the exception, no. I don't refute that there are those who see blue and purple as the same, or green and brown, etc... But on the whole of people seeing totally different colors and just being raised to cope... No.
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In a Universe that is infinitely large.. anything AND everything.. regardless as to how improbable.. is happening.. at once. There can be no other way.
Ponder about that statement...
Why? Space doesn't follow the light speed rule, it can expand as fast as it likes. Size of the universe is no indication of age, it could be infinitely large and a picosecond old. The universe, as far as we can tell, isn't really expanding at a "speed" at all. There needs to be another point of reference, a distance.
edit: Of course I am not infallible nor is everything set in stone.
edit2: A useful site. http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=274
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Expanding is a bad word, because it raises the inevitable question "into what". Stretching is a better term. It would be impossible to know what the universe, if it was which I don't think it is, expanding into, because it would be another dimension. We cannot see outside the realm of space and time.
Again you can not stretch unless there is room to stretch. By saying the universe is stretching, expanding, or getting bigger\smaller begs the question that if the universe is already infinite then how can it expand.
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Its expanding according to what our technology has found so far, as our technology improves so will the expanding of the universe and all that it holds, as we'll learn more then than we know right now, face it we only know what our present technology has taught us and shown us
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Again you can not stretch unless there is room to stretch. By saying the universe is stretching, expanding, or getting bigger\smaller begs the question that if the universe is already infinite then how can it expand.
I am not assuming the universe is infinite, read the posted link for an explanation better than I can word.
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Its expanding according to what our technology has found so far, as our technology improves so will the expanding of the universe and all that it holds, as we'll learn more then than we know right now, face it we only know what our present technology has taught us and shown us
I never said we knew more than what our technology has shown us... that is delving into the realm of religion and not science.
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The universe dosen't end. How could there be an end what would happen if you went to the end? :uhoh
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Everytime i think about something like this i get into deep thought, I look up at the night sky and think "What if?"
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Everytime i think about something like this i get into deep thought, I look up at the night sky and think "What if?"
Yep many men from the beginning of time have done just that, its something man will always do
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No, we see the same colors, except color blind people who get colors confused or melded. The wave lengths of light aren't going to change person to person.
Though i don't doubt the wave lengths stay the same, the question refers to how the brain interprets it.People likely see similar colors but the brain develops slightly differently for different people and cultures.Just as people develop different dialects and vocal abilities, the eyes and representative section of the brain develop slightly differently. It's just harder to test or notice.
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Like some people can hear sounds lower than 25Hz or higher than 18,000Hz, most are limited to a certain infrared and ultraviolet light frequency. If perceivable light has the same frequency thresholds as everyone else, then its safe to assume everyone interprets the color in its correct identical form. Infrared cannot look like an alien color and ultraviolet light cannot look like an alien color as well. Its quite hard to imagine a color that doesn't exist however.
I would like to wander off in philosophical/existential thoughts, but deeper than what most people dare to go on this forum. So I'll just stay out of it.
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Yep many men from the beginning of time have done just that, its something man will always do
What always amazes me is when i look at the Moon. I think about all the hundreds of millions of years that creatures have looked at it, and really makes you feel insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Julius Ceasar stared at the same moon that we look at now, 2000 years ago. Makes you think, doesnt it?
The greatest minds in the history of mankind stared at the same moon we stare at now. Weird feeling, isnt it?
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It it just me, or did anyone else think Christmas colors reading the OP? Guess I'm up too late again.
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We have colors in this game?
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The same question can also apply to taste.
I had this same ongoing conversation with a gf's folks 30+yrs. ago. Made her crazy. Seems there's some variance in color acuity, maybe not enough to make your red my green but it can help to explain various aesthetic bias among individuals.
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We just assume the universe doesn't end, our technology has neither confirmed or denied the claim. Back in the 1300s science thought the earth was flat, and that the earth was the center of the universe, yet that was proven false. What if our science today, although we believe is to be true, is just another false assumption like science was back in the 1300s? We can not assume that our science is correct just because it has dis-proven another claim or a false fact, science is nothing more than a collection of theories.
If you actually think about it, there is no possible way to prove that the universe is infinite. If the universe is infinite then we could never reach the end, if we could never reach the end we could never claim that it was infinite to a 100% guaranteed true answer. We assume it is because we have not reached an end yet; but what if we just traveled another mile? Would that be the end? Just another mile after that?
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What always amazes me is when i look at the Moon. I think about all the hundreds of millions of years that creatures have looked at it, and really makes you feel insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Julius Ceasar stared at the same moon that we look at now, 2000 years ago. Makes you think, doesnt it?
The greatest minds in the history of mankind stared at the same moon we stare at now. Weird feeling, isnt it?
What is more weird is that the stars you gaze at are the images of the stars millions of years ago, you are literally looking back in time looking at the stars. The stars your looking at now, could possibly be already gone or destroyed, but light just has not caught up with us yet.
The same question can also apply to taste.
I had this same ongoing conversation with a gf's folks 30+yrs. ago. Made her crazy. Seems there's some variance in color acuity, maybe not enough to make your red my green but it can help to explain various aesthetic bias among individuals.
I have also pondered this myself, does a pepperoni pizza taste the same to me as to you?
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Yep many men from the beginning of time have done just that, its something man will always do
Until humankind evolves enough to think in other terms and can actually solve the riddles of the Universe.
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This is text is from Douglas Hofstaders book “I am a strange loop”. It explain this question very good:
Say a person has an inverted perceptions of white and black. This makes no sense as the properties of black and white are dependent on how much light is reflected by a surface. If the case was that the persons perceptions were inverted, he would see better when it’s dark outside. No such person has been found to date.
How does this apply to the other colors you ask? Well, different colors have different properties under different lighting conditions. Take red for example, if you’ve been outside on a dark night you may have noticed that red fades to black much faster than other colors, say a person has inverted perception of red and yellow, he would find that yellow fades faster than red. Nobody has been proven to have this property of vision either.
Our perception of color is determined by the biological properties of our rods and cones in our eyes, and the wiring of our brains. So the bottom line is we all experience colors in the same way (although your emotional connotations to for example blue will of course be different from mine), no matter the apparent mystery of trying to explain how one experiences blue.
...and about the universe expanding and whats beyound it, the expanding universe is finite in both space and time,
you cant look beyound it. Strange things like blackholes have a gravitational singularity, a region where the spacetime curvature becomes infinite,
yes its very difficult to understand or even imagine it ;)
R
Gh0stFT
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Again you can not stretch unless there is room to stretch. By saying the universe is stretching, expanding, or getting bigger\smaller begs the question that if the universe is already infinite then how can it expand.
You are mistaking the difference between stretching and expanding.
Expansion requires more volume of nothing constantly to accommodate the new space.
Stretching does not add volume to space. What it may gain in length will be depleted in width for example, so no extra nothing is required for the space to fit into.
But complications in theories about space and time are throwing our research off track somewhat. Space and time is the most simple thing. Relativity is not just something I consider when thinking about Albert's theories. The relative size of space and time in my mind is of great importance. Consider that scaled up by incalculable quantities the stars and planets are a set of atoms and electrons and we will find many correlations between the infinite and the microscopic. So then again if we were to be scaled down to the size of 1/1,000,000,000th of a quark would it be possible for us to terraform an electron and evolve on it sustaining life from the power of our atom?
There is quite possibly no end to our universe, but even if there was there would be another universe right next door. I suspect it is a matter of scale and relative size/time blow into proportions that our size group will never be able to grow large enough to understand. Consider that in the time it takes a human to jump into a puddle of water, countless eons of existence may pass should there be anything small enough to exist within the universe that puddle creates on a scale we can never see. As the person lands in that puddle it kickstarts untold catastrophic events within the puddle universe. Yet for those in that puddle the splash would be a whirling cloud of atoms far above thier tiny electron that would be known as the stars and would take an almost infinite amount of time to 'splash' bringing the destruction of the universe. If people lived in that size dimension on a particularly furry and wet electron they called earth they would stare at their puddle splashing for the whole of their existence marveling at the colours and vast size of it all but perhaps never find the edge.
That is all we are, no matter if the puddle analogy could be true or not. Our infinite universe is a mere splash in time and we live far too quickly and on far too small a scale to ever see the big picture. Even if we travelled out of our puddle into the next we would be unaware we had left and indeed, if there are 'people' living at a relative time and size that is so vast that we are as invisible as what makes up an electron to them, we will never be discovered. Our whole universe will be born, will live and will expire in the blink of an eye to these giants as they watch a drop of rain fall from the sky and into their hand. It is not even really a factor of size that truly blinds us to what existence is even if something is so small or large as to make the size of our universe seem more reasonable. The problem is time, we cannot live fast enough to see what is tiny and we cannot live slow enough to see what is so big.
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Anyone else pondered about this? The color that you see as red is really the color green that I see, but since you grew up to know that color has a specific purpose it would not make difference.
Heres a chart to grasp this question
To Me: To You:
Red looks like Red Red looks like my Green
Green looks like Green Green looks like my Red
Or am I just talking out of my !@# here?
I've had this exact conversation..about colors and smells...many times. of course it was usually with a group of people and a bong..but we discussed this in detail. I just cannot remember how it was concluded.
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I've had this exact conversation..about colors and smells...many times. of course it was usually with a group of people and a bong..but we discussed this in detail. I just cannot remember how it was concluded.
With an inhale, holding of breath, cough as you exhale, and pass to the right? :lol
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(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/donald-sutherland-professor-jennings.jpg)
- "...then that means that one atom in my fingernail can be-"
- "One tiny little universe."
"
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A fingernail has tightly packed atoms, if our universe were a fingernail the nearest stars would be almost touching us, life would be quite hot.
Our universe, should it be infact something when looked at from outside, would have to be a liquid or a gas to give the planets and stars room to move around like atoms. Essentially this would mean at the edge of the universe would be a blockade of tightly packed atoms/stars as we encountered the container our universe is sloshing about in.
Though I'm not going to argue with Donald Sutherland :)
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We just assume the universe doesn't end, our technology has neither confirmed or denied the claim. Back in the 1300s science thought the earth was flat, and that the earth was the center of the universe, yet that was proven false. What if our science today, although we believe is to be true, is just another false assumption like science was back in the 1300s? We can not assume that our science is correct just because it has dis-proven another claim or a false fact, science is nothing more than a collection of theories.
If you actually think about it, there is no possible way to prove that the universe is infinite. If the universe is infinite then we could never reach the end, if we could never reach the end we could never claim that it was infinite to a 100% guaranteed true answer. We assume it is because we have not reached an end yet; but what if we just traveled another mile? Would that be the end? Just another mile after that?
Scientists know that the universe isn't infinite because we can hear the electromagnetic echo of the big bang static on an empty radio station for instance.
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Why? Space doesn't follow the light speed rule, it can expand as fast as it likes. Size of the universe is no indication of age, it could be infinitely large and a picosecond old. The universe, as far as we can tell, isn't really expanding at a "speed" at all. There needs to be another point of reference, a distance.
edit: Of course I am not infallible nor is everything set in stone.
edit2: A useful site. http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=274
You are correct space expands faster then the speed of light but this is why. <----------70% of speed of light in both directions -----------> therefore you could say it expands faster then the speed of light so it does obey the rule.
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I have thought about this, you're not alone. But then I go, but there are just those colors that go better together than others, so surely it's the same. Then I think maybe those color combinations are just socially derived and you're made to believe two colors go together.
Naw, because if you ask people what color, either green or purple, looks closest to red, all but a few give the same answer.
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Well we know that atoms make up into larger objects...and those objects make up into our Earth...and our Earth and the others make up into a solar system....and our solar system makes up into a galaxy...what if our known universe is just some pimple on some giant creatures back(God)? :bolt:
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Naw, because if you ask people what color, either green or purple, looks closest to red, all but a few give the same answer.
That doesn't disprove my point at all. What color looks closest can be pretty relative to personal opinion, thus a very flawed experiment. If you read my other post I clarify that I think everyone sees a very similar spectrum, but not identical.
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With an inhale, holding of breath, cough as you exhale, and pass to the right? :lol
you forgot the noise you make as you pass to right... "eeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrr"
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you forgot the noise you make as you pass to right... "eeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrr"
lol ... We must've been in the same dorm at USF in 1990? haha
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Well yes jayhawk, it doesn't entirely disprove your point, but the OP used red and green as the example, two very different colors. No one is going to say that green is closer to red than purple is. I think that there are slight differences in how we see colors, mostly in what shades we see. This would explain some people saying that maroon is closer to red than orange-red is.
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No one is going to say that green is closer to red than purple is.
May I see your source for this statement. Or is it just an assumption?
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Anyone else pondered about this? The color that you see as red is really the color green that I see, but since you grew up to know that color has a specific purpose it would not make difference.
Heres a chart to grasp this question
To Me: To You:
Red looks like Red Red looks like my Green
Green looks like Green Green looks like my Red
Or am I just talking out of my !@# here?
Many people have such questions when they are young, myself included. This is one of the reasons I went to science in the first place. The answer to this particular question is yes it looks different, but not in the way you describe.
Colors looks different to people because the response of our eyes to different light wavelengths is similar, but not exact between people. The response to "green" range wavelengths in particular tends to vary. What we perceive as color is just a combination of signals from our eye to our brain and so the brain input is different if your eyes are different. Color is not even a particular wavelength - it is just the total response of the eye to the combination of wavelengths that enter. An infinite combination of wavelengths (spectra) can produce the exact same color for a given set of eyes. The interesting part is that while it is easy to produce two spectra that will produce the same eye response from one person, they may produce a different response from another. How the brain interprets the colors and present them to you (itself) as a colored image is something we cannot compare between people. I really do not know enough about the brain to tell if there are limits we can place on how different are two individual brains are from each other in the detailed way they function.
We can say for certain that different people see different color shades as least. It is well known that male color vision is usually inferior to female's. My wife use color threads for sawing that all look the same to me unless I make a real effort to tell the difference and she is stunned that I cannot see what is an obvious "completely different color". I do not have any particular color vision problem. In this case it is likely that the eyes are different and not the brain.
This is text is from Douglas Hofstaders book “I am a strange loop”. It explain this question very good:
Say a person has an inverted perceptions of white and black. This makes no sense as the properties of black and white are dependent on how much light is reflected by a surface. If the case was that the persons perceptions were inverted, he would see better when it’s dark outside. No such person has been found to date.
How does this apply to the other colors you ask? Well, different colors have different properties under different lighting conditions. Take red for example, if you’ve been outside on a dark night you may have noticed that red fades to black much faster than other colors, say a person has inverted perception of red and yellow, he would find that yellow fades faster than red. Nobody has been proven to have this property of vision either.
If you have inverted black and white, you would see in negative. A negative B/W image is not better or inferior to a normal B/W, only looks weird when you are not used to it. When using thermal night vision instruments, some people prefer hot as white and others hot as black.
The argument about color is not exactly valid either since what makes red fade faster into black is the response curves for the different sensing cells in the eye. If yellow was red, yellow would fade faster into black because the signals coming from the eye to the brain would act in the exact opposite way. This is 100% sensor effect and not brain interpretation.
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In atoms electrons and neutrons orbit a center nuclei
A bunch of these packed together a molecule
Our planets orbit a center nuclei....the sun
A bunch of these packed together a galaxy
Maybe we need to re think the fingernail theory, maybe we are just an atom.....the preverbial speck under a giants fingernail :noid
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you forgot the noise you make as you pass to right... "eeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrr"
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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May I see your source for this statement. Or is it just an assumption?
OK its an assumption based on going around town asking people if they thought yellow looked closer to green than blue did (I know, not the same colors. I got some wierd looks, but when I explained what it was about, most were nice enough.
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OK its an assumption based on going around town asking people if they thought yellow looked closer to green than blue did (I know, not the same colors. I got some wierd looks, but when I explained what it was about, most were nice enough.
:lol I don't believe this for a second.
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*thinking to self* damn, he saw right through me.
But in all seriousnes, I can't say that nobody would. I'd bet my car that most wouldn't though.
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well here is one for you all to ponder
if I am I can i prove you are you and that you are not just an extention of my Id playing out with my I?
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well here is one for you all to ponder
if I am I can i prove you are you and that you are not just an extention of my Id playing out with my I?
Of course!
Remember, "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."
:lol
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Through the wormhole series narrated by Morgan Freeman.
He goes through a lot of these questions, even at the end getting into the whole God question.
Well worth the time to watch, try to do it with an open mind.
It will expand your horizons.
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Of course!
Remember, "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."
:lol
hahahaha cool response!
but you see that even within your own riddle you only alledge that we are all one.
thus you are only supporting my argument that you cannot prove that everyone else is anything more than a fabrication of my own mind creating a world and populating it with interesting life like beings. beings who are created merely as a way for me to structure and fill out my inner world and keep me ammused, but beings who never the less do not really exist outside of my mind.
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so you're responsible for 9/11 flotsom
i knew it
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Ya the universe is really big.
Thats about as deep as I get.
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The universe dosen't end. How could there be an end what would happen if you went to the end? :uhoh
There is a gate.
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Before anyone takes up Nemisis on his bet I thought I'd better show you his car
(http://www.character-cars.com/images/noddy11.jpg)
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There is a gate.
and a restaraunt
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*thinking to self* damn, he saw right through me.
But in all seriousnes, I can't say that nobody would. I'd bet my car that most wouldn't though.
1. What kind of car
2. Define 'most'
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An old civic (clearly I'm not going to had over the keys, since its my only means of transportation to my job 20mi away)
Most being 3/4.