Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Heater on August 18, 2010, 09:58:56 AM

Title: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Heater on August 18, 2010, 09:58:56 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-north-korean-plane-20100819,0,6443254.story

A North Korean military aircraft crashed into a cornfield in northeastern China about 100 miles from the border in what analysts believe was a failed defection attempt, the Chinese government said Wednesday.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: fudgums on August 18, 2010, 10:02:55 AM
Quote
The aircraft was identified as a Russian-made MiG fighter, most likely a MiG-21, although early reports had described it as a helicopter.

really, really
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: oakranger on August 18, 2010, 10:23:56 AM
What do they mean by, "...a failed defection attempt"?
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Maverick on August 18, 2010, 10:36:31 AM
Maybe because the pilot failed to survive the crash?
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: boxboy28 on August 18, 2010, 01:16:28 PM
looks kinda like a 21 from what i can see.
CNN link.



http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/08/18/china.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=Sbin
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: ZetaNine on August 18, 2010, 01:29:26 PM
I somehow can envision the "Glorious Leader" telling his air force they defect anytime they want to..then pointing to a row of Migs on an airfield all gassed up and ready for flight...

with the caveat being..said pilots have no idea said Migs had wiring tampered with.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Wolfala on August 18, 2010, 01:30:03 PM
Mustve been DEFECTive
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: ZetaNine on August 18, 2010, 01:34:13 PM
Mustve been DEFECTive

Oh NO you DIT 'N
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: curry1 on August 18, 2010, 04:35:28 PM
looks kinda like a 21 from what i can see.
CNN link.



http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/08/18/china.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Too me looks like a helicopter
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Vulcan on August 18, 2010, 04:46:15 PM
crashed into a cornfield in northeastern China

you sure the pilot wasn't just hungry?
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: MiloMorai on August 18, 2010, 05:14:43 PM
Too me looks like a helicopter

A helicopter?  :rofl

Looks staged as the a/c is hardly damaged. The MiG-21 has a landing speed of ~180mph.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Masherbrum on August 18, 2010, 05:19:35 PM
This is probably a smoke and mirrors show.   
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: curry1 on August 18, 2010, 06:46:20 PM
A helicopter?  :rofl

Looks staged as the a/c is hardly damaged. The MiG-21 has a landing speed of ~180mph.

I was making a joke about this earlier post in the same thread...

Quote
The aircraft was identified as a Russian-made MiG fighter, most likely a MiG-21, although early reports had described it as a helicopter.
really, really
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Dichotomy on August 18, 2010, 06:57:30 PM
mystery solved it was one of several blow-dryers I got 'killed' in in AVA last night.   
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Babalonian on August 18, 2010, 07:27:28 PM
Looks staged as the a/c is hardly damaged. The MiG-21 has a landing speed of ~180mph.

That's my bet, something doesn't add up.  Plane is way too intact... (then again this thing was outa gas.. also didn't seem to be carrying any ord... how slow can a stripped and empty MiG-21 go?) + crashing next to a populated area + no survivor.  Obviously ran outa fuel due to lack of fire, but it doesn't seem to of had any ordnance on it either, so maybe a training flight of some form?  Do N.Korean MiG-21s have ejection seats or parachutes for hteir pilots? 

I have this picture in my head of a young, desperate/hungry and inovative North Korean pilot who must of somehow put more value in defecting in whole with his over-prized outdated Russian MiG than bailing on it because he opted to ride it down into the corn field rather than just ejecting out (so assuming that even though he didn't agree with most of his leader's propaganda, he obviously believed the bits about how badarse his MiG-21 is compared to what the rest of the world has at their disposal).
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: eagl on August 18, 2010, 08:24:56 PM
Looks to me like the guy *almost* managed to land a mig-21 in a field.  I wish we had exact coordinates for the wreckage to see if google earth shows a road or something just prior to the wreckage.  But it looks to me like he tried to land in a field and just didn't quite make it.  Damn shame.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Vulcan on August 19, 2010, 04:50:05 PM
he obviously believed the bits about how badarse his MiG-21 is compared to what the rest of the world has at their disposal).

I wouldn't write off the 21's just yet. Especially some of the models with the upgraded avionics.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: allaire on August 19, 2010, 04:59:11 PM
Silly North Korean he could have went south I'm sure they would have been more than happy to have him, the plane, and any information he had.  Hell I'm even sure they would feed him.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on August 20, 2010, 03:50:16 PM
I wouldn't write off the 21's just yet. Especially some of the models with the upgraded avionics.

Yep its manouverable and goes mach 2+. With top electronics it's still a threat.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 20, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
A helicopter?  :rofl

Looks staged as the a/c is hardly damaged. The MiG-21 has a landing speed of ~180mph.

Why would North Korea or China stage it? 


ack-ack
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: fudgums on August 20, 2010, 04:01:09 PM
Why would North Korea or China stage it? 


ack-ack

because he lives in his own little world...
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 20, 2010, 04:16:48 PM
because he lives in his own little world...

Honestly, it really doesn't make any sense that it was staged.  North Korea wouldn't want to stage something like this and give the impression that its military officers are willing to desert and defect to a foreign country.  China has an huge problem with illegal North Korean immigrants in its border region with North Korea.  China certainly doesn't want to give the impression that it's okay for North Koreans to come on over the border, whether it be a military officer trying to use a MiG to sneak over or civilians crossing looking for food and a better life.

ack-ack
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Babalonian on August 20, 2010, 06:58:16 PM
Yep its manouverable and goes mach 2+. With top electronics it's still a threat.

A threat, maybe, but so is an unsupervised 7-yo with a BB gun hanging out near a runway.  Even with full upgrades I believe (I'm not very knowledgable in cold-war era soviet jets) it's listed as only being able to carry at most one bomb or DT, two AA missiles or DTs and a 30mm cannon.  I doubt even with upgraded avionics it's much of a threat to our country these days, compared to our current stock of hardware and modern electronic warfare and jamming capabilities.


Why would North Korea or China stage it?  


ack-ack

N. Korea definetley didn't stage it, heck they're probabley the sole reason why it crashed short of its destination in the first place, as long as N. Korea has had a history of officers defecting in aircraft they've had a history of never fueling up aircraft anymore with enough fuel to make it far beyond the border and the officers that fly them are aware of this.  Similar to the policy N. Korea has about it's border crossing guards, they mostly watch and police each other rather than watch and police the border, they're always paired and always standing at attention and staring at each other, watching and waiting to stop their buddy if they decide to make a dash for the border.

What I think may of been staged though is that nobody survived the crash.  Knowing China's relationship with N. Korea, if they admitted to having a defector then the N. Koreans would demand he be turned over before any useful information (if any) can be gathered from him, and then they'd likely kill their defector once reataining him.  It may also be the best thing for his family back home if he has any, let them and his government think he's dead so there's less repricutions handed down to his imediate family.  So, given all likely choices to a N. Korean MiG-21 pilot for defecting, I'd opt for the "fly as far into China as ya can, ditch/crash and then beg/offer everything and anything you could to the Chineese in exchange for a meal and claiming me dead" plan too.


China certainly doesn't want to give the impression that it's okay for North Koreans to come on over the border, whether it be a military officer trying to use a MiG to sneak over or civilians crossing looking for food and a better life.

ack-ack

Assuming the defector held some intelligence value to China or not, yours is another good and very valid reason for China to play the "defector?  what defector?" card.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: NaTorino on August 20, 2010, 08:41:18 PM
lol they still fly the mig-21
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: Vulcan on August 21, 2010, 05:51:44 PM
A threat, maybe, but so is an unsupervised 7-yo with a BB gun hanging out near a runway.  Even with full upgrades I believe (I'm not very knowledgable in cold-war era soviet jets) it's listed as only being able to carry at most one bomb or DT, two AA missiles or DTs and a 30mm cannon.  I doubt even with upgraded avionics it's much of a threat to our country these days, compared to our current stock of hardware and modern electronic warfare and jamming capabilities.

it also has a very low radar profile.

Sometimes the simplest weapons are the most effective. But if you want to believe everything you read on paper... well ;)
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: MiloMorai on August 21, 2010, 09:59:34 PM
Babalonian, the Mig-17 and somewhat so the MiG-19, performed well enough to claim 63 (MiG-17) and 7(MiG-19) American a/c (mostly F-4s) during the Viet-Nam war.
Title: Re: North Korean MiG jet crashes in China
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on August 22, 2010, 05:10:59 AM
In WW2 atleast the Finns routinely reported (with a few unfortunate exceptions) defected Soviet pilots shot down and dead, even though they weren't. This way their families were safe from execution in Soviet Union.

Camo