Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: SB on June 18, 2001, 11:40:00 AM
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After a freaking year of waiting I am the proud owner of a new CH Pro Throttle USB. I dug my other USB stuff out of the closet and have it all hooked up now. It was worth the wait for me.
The software that you have to download (software CD's aren't in yet and will cause delays if you decide to wait on it) does a real nice job of replacing Speed Keys. You can map any axis on any of the controllers to whatever joystick you want. You can set them for digital input for games that won't use the 9 axis you get with the throttle, pedals, and stick.
In Aces High I mapped the thumb joystick to use as my pan views. I can move my virtual head throughout the view range only using the joystick. Talk about immersion. When you look back left and want to look back right, your virtual head has to move to the front before you can look right. It moves fast so it's not a big deal. You can peek down just a hair to look at your flap indicator or fuel state on those planes that have those guages out of the normal front view and you can look up just over the canopy rail with just a small press of your thumb. Releasing the view stick returns your head to the front view.
There are 3 4-way hats and 1 8-way hat on the throttle. The 8-way is located right behind the view stick. I've mapped head movements to one of the hats on the joystick.
The toe brakes with the CH Pro Pedals USB are something else I really enjoy. Touching down and feathering the brakes just hard enough to keep the tail down and being able to steer adds a lot, much more than I would of thought.
Between the CH software and the flexibility of AH, you can do some amazing things. I still haven't experimented with the shifted function to give me even more stuff to play with and I'm sure there is much more here than I've been able to discover in a weekend.
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Hey, SB!! Nice to "see" ya.
Thanks for the report. I've been thinking about switching to the USB stuff. Sounds like it's got some advantages. Is it more stable than the analog-and-gamecard?
Don't know about the view thingy though. I've been using the same view system for so long, I die like a dog every time I try to change. :)
popeye
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Hiya Popeye. Hmm the way to describe this... think AW DOS smooth is the best description I can give. None of the little stick glitches you get from Windows.
As for the view system you'd be amazed intuitive it really is. It will take some getting used to but not very long at all.
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USB should eliminate all spiking, centering and other such problems. Unless your stick is broke in some way.
I've had usb pro pedals for a few months now, and they're rock solid. Really nice once you get the expo curves set up in AH.
I didn't even know the throttles were out. I'll have to order one. :)
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Okay...took the plunge.
I expect to provide lots of maneuver kills, while I try to learn the new views. :)
popeye
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Heh Pops,
You can keep your default views also. I've got both set up.
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Thanks for the review, SB, I'll be ordering my USB Pro Throttle shortly, if the negotiations with my wife go well. :D
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: banana ]
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doesn't sound like anything us X36 Saitek combo owners haven't been able to do for years
Eagler
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Eagler - BS ;) I had 2 Saiteks before - must've been serial numbers within the very first hundred or so - both went back cuz they were c**p. Until the USB version came out Saitek was not very good to say the least. It's still behind CH for programmability (nothing beats SpeedKeys for ease of use and intuitivity) etc but for the price it's simply unbeatable. And it works with CH Pro pedals USB ... :) I'm happy with Saitek USB - can't really justify buying another CH setup.
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Originally posted by Eagler:
doesn't sound like anything us X36 Saitek combo owners haven't been able to do for years
Eagler
Hmmm looked at the Saitek site and didn't see anything about a secondary joystick on the throttle. Did I miss something? ;)
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SB
On the throttle the X36 has at least two hats you can program for whatever, I use one for my up view then when used with the hat programmed on the joystick for views it gives me the up view of the 8 directions. the other hat on the throttle is for my zoom (on/off - in/out)set as a 4way hat. The other hat on the throttle I set the down function for gear, among other things. You can program them for just about anything, sounds like you are similarly setup. Yes, mine is USB. Had the analog - but was very buggy the way it tied into the keyboard. CH makes a fine product. Have had several pedals and 2 or 3 different sticks from them. Congrats on ur new setup.
Enjoy!
Eagler
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Eagler,
I understand what you're saying but I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make. There is a true X-Y joystick on the new CH throttle. Couple that with the pan view system in AH and you have something entirely new, the ability to have any view with the movement of one control. No more multiple hats to press with both thumbs or extra buttons for view modifiers, and it's not a snap view like the hats we are all so used to. Using this view system if you want to look at your 7 position and move to your 5 position you have to move your views all the way around to the right, no Linda Blair head spinning stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I was ready to buy a Saitek because of the frustration with CH and thier missed release dates. Saitek makes a good product.
This is something I haven't seen on any stick I've messed with and I've gone thru a lot of them. (Still have my beta TM stick from the 94 AW con in DC and all my beta CH stuff).
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Well, it sounds like both Saitek and CH have resolved their former problems. Man, remember how terrible controllers were back in the early 90's? We've come a long way, baby! :)
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Well, I got the CH USB stuff. Now I need more USB ports. There are two USB ports on the MB, but I need to add three more.
Do I get a "hub", or a PCI USB card? Any (dis)advantage to either?
TIA
popeye
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Popeye,
I dont know which is the best for you, but when you do decide, try these people first. I get all my hardware from "the shows". http:// [url=http://www.a1scs.com]http://www.a1scs.com [/url]
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I picked up a USB hub that was a PCI card. Gave me an extra four ports. Don't remember the brand but grabbed it at Best Buy.
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If you already have usb ports, no need for a pci card, just get a hub.
You can connect up to 127 devices to 1 usb port. As long as theres bandwidth left for the devices (I don't think joysticks use that much), you should be fine.
I just picked up a 4 port hub in anticipation of my usb sticks.
My keyboard also has a hub, which I plugged my mouse and pedals into. The keyboard is plugged into the other hub. :)
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I'd think a hub would be better as a PCI card would probably grab another IRQ and possibly throw off the settings/resources you now have. Plus you won't have to crawl under desk to hook up additional USB devices.
Eagler
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Right on Eagler - I have a 4 port hub that sits next to monitor - much easier to plug/unplug things. Some modern cases come with USB ports on the front too...
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Starbird and Lynx....where did you guys pick up your 4 port hubs ?? Any help would be appreciated...have my USB throttle,stick, and pedals otw from CH products...thanks.
RAS
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I got a hub at Best Buy for $30. Everything is plugged in, now I just need to get an engineering degree to decipher the CH setup instructions. ;)
popeye
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RAS - I'm in the UK so where I got a hub wouldn't apply to you but if you order online make sure you know what it looks like before ordering - some of them look just flipping awful ;).
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heh Pops, drop me a line at hmason@swbell.net if you can't figure it out. I'll send you my number if you don't already have it.
You and Mute still keep in touch?
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Thanks for the info Lynx and Popeye.
RAS
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Got it all plugged in a working, but have a couple of problems:
Needs to be recalibrated every time I start AH. I can live with this (though the analog stuff stayed calibrated), but is it normal?
Completely lost joystick functions in the middle of a sortie. Happened twice. Tried recalibrating/selecting in the AH joystick menu, but didn't work. Had to reboot the computer to get the JS back. I'm sure the TBM pilot had a good laugh watching my 109 spin and crash, but I was not too amused. ;)
Anyone else using the USB CH F-16 Combatstick/Pro Throttle see this?
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I'm glad I'm not the only one this is happening to.
Popeye, I use the USB Combatstick 565F and the Analog Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals. I always have to recalibrate inside AH when I enter, too. Haven't lost any function like you have, however.
Kind of annoying ain't it?
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I have strange situation here.
I have non-usb CH F-16 CombatStick, CH Throttle (not pro) and CH pro pedals.
I upgraded my pc (motherboard,cpu,mem,HD,video...) and also installed windows 2000 pro sp2 instead of win98se. Everything works! Even CH throttle!!! According to ch knowledge base, it shouldn't because win2000 doesn't have dos. But it just works and even with same configuration that I programmed during WIN98 times! And I haven't loaded throttle dos-based programming software :eek:
I consider myself as a lucky bastige :)
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What kind of prices are you guys getting?
Best I found is $109 here: http://www.flightsimcentral.com/chprothrotus.html (http://www.flightsimcentral.com/chprothrotus.html)
[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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I have lost rudders on occasion. When I do I just unplug then replug them and restart the map and all's good. CH wouldn't talk to me about the problem since I'm using a prototype CH Combatstick with an 8-way hat. Looking forward to the Fighterstick.
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I am having problems with my set up as well. I have a Logitech Force Feedback USB Stick with Throttle control and I just added CH Pro USB Pedals. I got everything working finally except for Throttle --It is either all the way on or all the way off--no longer variable control. In calibration it works fine--but not in game. Any ideas? :confused:
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SB,
How did you get the little joystick on the CH USB throttle to do the views?
RGJ
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RGJ,
On the throttle the mini joystick is the X and Y axis. In your setup in Aces High there are options to set up your pan views. Assign the throttle X/Y axis to the pan views. When you start flying you have to hit F8 to enable pan views and you should be good to go.
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Hopefully by the end of Aug I will have the Pro Throttle & Rudders, can I buy a 4 port USB hub and hook it up to the USB port on my motherboard and operate my combat stick/ throttle/ rudders without any troubles or few as possible thrus the 4 port hub?
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Theoretically yes.
My sticks havn't showed up yet, but when they do thats what I'm going to be doing.
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I am running an F-16 Combatstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals (all USB) through a 4-port hub. Everything seems to work okay, except that I lose the stick functions once in a while. Not sure if it has anything to do with the hub.
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Okie Dokie sounds good to me thanks for the input! ;)
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I've been running my usb ch pro throttle/combatstick and pro pedals through a 4 hub without problems for several weeks now with no problems that I can attribute to it. However; I do seem to have to exercise my controllers to their limits 1 time before I fly with them after I turn my puter on. Dunno if that has anything to do with the hub or not. Good news of course is that any and all spikes are gone except for my twitchy fingers and I lay that at the feet of being rode hard and hung out wet too many times.
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I too have to do this Moss I have heard it called waking up the USB! :)
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Two things.
First, I can't get the Mouse axis control on the CH Throttle to control the pan views like you did SB. I tried going into Aces High and choosing the appropriate axis for the pitch view and the other for the yaw view like you said, but when I go to the plane and hit F8 for a pan view it, immediately jumps up and to the right for a view. When I use the mouse stick on the controller to pan, it only pans around one side and the up views. I must be missing something???
Second,
For those of you having to recalibrate each time you turn on the computer. You do not have to go into a calibration routine with USB, but you must wake up all USB sticks and axis when the computer is turned on. This will be the case with any USB stick. Just run your sticks through their full movement. You can do that right on the desktop, or even on the runway, engine turned off of course, if you forget.
You only calibrate the CH USB once in THEIR calibration routine. You do not calibrate in Windows or Aces High after that. If you do you may have problems. Just wake up the sticks.
As for an opinion of this new CH USB gear, well I'm the guy that provided the first Saitek Profile for Aces High on the old downloads page. I now own the CH USB Throttle, 565 stick, and Pro Pedals. There is no comparision between the CH support staff and Saitek, because the Saitek support dept doesn't exist and won't respond to you.
The CH USB throttle/stick is a vastly superior product. Programming is quite easy and understandable. You can even set your own sensitivity and deadbands for each axis, for each game, even if that game doesn't support such adjustments. You can set up any number of sticks to work with old games not designed to work with multiple sticks.
USB will solve your spiking, electrical noise, avoid all that sound card complication, and provide a very smooth operating stick.
CH is, and always has been, the best joystick company there is. Thrustmaster used to be a strong competitor until they stopped providing quality support a couple of years ago.
Ranger Bob
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I might misunderstand Ranger Bob, but I want to make it clear: You need to calibrate all devices in Aces High at least once.
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Ranger,
When you do the stick calibration in AH do you move the throttle joystick also?
Drop me an email and I'll send you my number if you can't get it going.
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: SB ]
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Thanks,
I did forget to move the joystick axis on the throttle during the first setup in Aces High.
I still have somewhat of a sensitivity problem. It seems that when using this throttle mouse in Pan mode the view "vibrates", or jerks back and forth a bit causing the view to be a bit hard to use. I tried setting the sensitivity down a bit, and even added a dead space, but I can't seem to get the vibrating jerkiness out of the Pan View.
Any ideas.
Thanks,
Ranger Bob
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Bob try adding some damping (in AH) on the view pan and view yaw axes. That made it smoother for me. You could also go into the CH control manager and reduce the sensitivity of that axis. That might give you smoother movements when you are deflecting the ministick only a small amount.
Question: Does anybody know how to get the throttle's hats to show up as hats instead of buttons in directx? The 8-way hat shows up as POV 0 in AH but all the other hats show up as buttons. I don't see any way to change this in the CH software.
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Another thing Bob:
In the control manager when you look at the ministick axes, you can look under "gain and sensitivity settings" and set a sensitivity number (I mentioned it above) and a dead zone number (which is redundant because of the AH dead zone adjustment), but there is also a response curve (a little graph with up/down arrows).
This is basically the good old expo adjustment as known to R/Cers. Try lowering the response curve by hitting the down arrow a few times. This will give the stick less sensitivity near center and full authority as you move further from center.
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Use your expo!
It will help smooth out your control inputs immensly, if properly setup. :)