Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: oTRALFZo on August 24, 2010, 03:53:56 AM
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Did some research on the C2 in game in particular, the 205 mod. I must say its a very sexy plane.
I took out both models last night and though frustrating with the MGs, I need the cannons to survive a bit longer in the air.
Although for the basics of keeping it fast and not falling into the trap of using it as a turn fighter, is there any advice people can give me when flying it?
Fuel loadout: Does the C2 burn fuel? I noticed that its a tub with full tanks.
Convergence: What do you think is best to take shots at and do the cannon rounds drop significantly? (keep in mind I'm used to the Hispanio lasers).
Despite the fact that I get the feeling I am going to make even more trips to the tower, I'm really fascinated by it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated :salute
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The best thing about the 205 is that you get to wear the leopard skin. Nothing says "pimp" more than a good quality leopard skin on the dashboard. This alone merits taking it for a ride occasionally.
The 205 is an excellent plane for its time-frame which is mid-war. Later is it out classed by the speed monsters. I consider it as a 109G2/6 variation - speed/climb performance numbers are quite close, same 20mm cannons (but you get 2 of them, which is a huge improvement). The 13mm mg are quite effective as far as 13mm goes, partially because of the nose mounting (costs some fire rate, but good trade off). The 109s feel more nimble and are much better at low speeds.
Fuel capacity is decent for most action. You can easily get more than 30 minutes out of it with even minor throttle/rpm management - no escort fighter, but more than enough for the arenas. Take 100% - this is not a P47N flying tanker, 100% means just a little more than 100 gallons and saving ~30 gallons in weight by taking 75% is negligible.
Your biggest asset is that people are not used to fighting the Maccies so they will often misjudge you. Bring a big purse to put the perks in.
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It's a sweet plane, don't be afraid to turn it. It accelerates pretty well so if you see yourself losing position just nose down a tad, hit the wep, and string them out until you have a bit of separation to turn back into them.
Here, you probably won't learn much from this other than I am a bad pilot and worse shot, but it may provide some confidence in the plane against the more turny birds :airplane:
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/205vsSpits.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/205vsSpits.ahf)
As always right click -> save as. I would recommend setting the "look up" head position once it loads to something other than the windscreen frame.
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i've never flown either of them. i do know there's a couple of guys in mw that can turnfight those things unbelievably though.
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202...convergence at 225....75 fuel for base to nme base fighting....50 if fight is closer. Saddle up on them and spitball them to death...its great.
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Keep it in the vertical. that means nose up or down and keep it fast.
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you guys wanna see someone that can do amazing things in those dam 202's?
look up llgaf. he's a cool guy, and is an excellent pile-it in that thing. :aok
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Thanks for the info Tec and Bozon :salute
I do agree it doesnt get the consideration as most planes but Ill stick with it
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Did some research on the C2 in game in particular, the 205 mod. I must say its a very sexy plane.
I took out both models last night and though frustrating with the MGs, I need the cannons to survive a bit longer in the air.
Although for the basics of keeping it fast and not falling into the trap of using it as a turn fighter, is there any advice people can give me when flying it?
Fuel loadout: Does the C2 burn fuel? I noticed that its a tub with full tanks.
Convergence: What do you think is best to take shots at and do the cannon rounds drop significantly? (keep in mind I'm used to the Hispanio lasers).
Despite the fact that I get the feeling I am going to make even more trips to the tower, I'm really fascinated by it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated :salute
Cause its Italian *flex*
-BigBOBCH
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The best thing about the 205 is that you get to wear the leopard skin. Nothing says "pimp" more than a good quality leopard skin on the dashboard. This alone merits taking it for a ride occasionally.
:rofl :aok
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Cause its Italian *flex*
-BigBOBCH
It cant be italian, its not greasy enough.
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The C.202 is an excellent turning plane. The C.205 isn't quite as good, but still good. I don't mind taking on most planes other than the likes of Zeros, F4F's, and F2A's in turn fights with either one. They handle well in most speed ranges and keep energy quite nicely.
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It cant be italian, its not greasy enough.
:uhoh
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It cant be italian, its not greasy enough.
Easy there, paisan
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The biggest joy in C.202 is having a SpitXVI or N1K2 engage you in a turning match. Those 2 minutes till he realizes he can't shake you, till you finally managed to make him crash into the ground, after you've spent your entire ammo load trying to kill him, are great.
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The biggest joy in C.202 is having a SpitXVI or N1K2 engage you in a turning match. Those 2 minutes till he realizes he can't shake you, till you finally managed to make him crash into the ground, after you've spent your entire ammo load trying to kill him, are great.
Ah, so you have flown them...
:rofl
:aok
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Although for the basics of keeping it fast and not falling into the trap of using it as a turn fighter, is there any advice people can give me when flying it?
A C.205 turns alright. I turn it with P-51s, 109s, 190s, Typhoons, etc. Most of the more 'turny' planes can be out run. It works the vertical just fine. For the ENY, it is a great plane. My lifetime K/D is 655/383, with 14/4 this tour.
Fuel loadout: Does the C2 burn fuel? I noticed that its a tub with full tanks.
Convergence: What do you think is best to take shots at and do the cannon rounds drop significantly? (keep in mind I'm used to the Hispanio lasers).
Take 100%, and burn the wing tanks from take off roll. They burn off by 17,000 feet in auto climb.
Convergence? My gunnery is terrible. For what it's worth, I set 400.
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The 205 is a great turn fighter. The 202 turns pretty well also.
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If you want to talk to someone that is exceptional in the 205 talk to potsnpans, he is the best I have seen in it since it came into the game.
ab8aac/dmdchief
out
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If you want to talk to someone that is exceptional in the 205 talk to potsnpans, he is the best I have seen in it since it came into the game.
ab8aac/dmdchief
out
His bird seems to have tail issues when I see him. :D
PnP is a good guy and he flies well.
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The 205 is an excellent plane for its time-frame which is mid-war. Later is it out classed by the speed monsters. I consider it as a 109G2/6 variation - speed/climb performance numbers are quite close, same 20mm cannons (but you get 2 of them, which is a huge improvement). The 13mm mg are quite effective as far as 13mm goes, partially because of the nose mounting (costs some fire rate, but good trade off). The 109s feel more nimble and are much better at low speeds.
Your biggest asset is that people are not used to fighting the Maccies so they will often misjudge you. Bring a big purse to put the perks in.
I agree the 205 is one of the most underated fighters in the game. Turns reasonably well , has average acceleration & can out dive almost all plane sets. Cannons are a little weak hence closing to d200 is best. Will not take a lot of damage so avoid hoes & especially avoid cv ack. Don't know if I would compare it to 109 though. 190a5/a8 is a little closer to the mark I would think.
Better than flying all the boring planes that the majority fly.
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I'm quite suprised that the 205 is considered as a good turnfigter here. I think it's pretty weak in that regard.
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I'm quite suprised that the 205 is considered as a good turnfigter here. I think it's pretty weak in that regard.
Depends on the situation.
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kinda surprised that nobody metioned burning the wing tanks..jb42 used to advocate this...most of the jb's were deadly in either the 202/205..another one was xtremej..all the muppets tbh.. :aok
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Your biggest asset is that people are not used to fighting the Maccies so they will often misjudge you. Bring a big purse to put the perks in.
+1. Not to common a plane to see, and when I've asked, many upped it through error in hanger selection. Many don't give the macci enough credit, and even in the LW arenas, it can be decent.
I have cowl guns set to D650 and the cannons set to D350 (any where from D325- D425 seems to be fine, just a matter of where you usually take your shots)
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His bird seems to have tail issues when I see him. :D
PnP is a good guy and he flies well.
Hehehe...yeah he always seems to lose a tail or wing when I'm close by but you're right, potNpans is a good flyer and always a good fight.
ack-ack
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I'd say it's performance is in between 109G6 and G2, the G2 being the better and boils down to time behind the wheel. When bringing 100% fuel, burn Aux. tank then manually select main and wait 5 seconds and then tap fuel select to auto burn wing tanks. If you like to be slapped like a clubbed footed St Louis Rams fan, then the 205V is for you, but dam its fun to fly.
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Eh, I prefer my G6 for fighter action, but the 205 is a good buff hunter with all that 20 mm ammo. (and good speed/climb)
The 202 is a blast, and one of my favorite screwing around rides. Leave the wing mounted .303s at home. All they do is make you think you are hitting with the .50s when you are in fact not. The increase in damage is negligible, and you may as well shed the few extra lbs.
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I'm quite suprised that the 205 is considered as a good turnfigter here. I think it's pretty weak in that regard.
I agree. I have usually flown the typhie and with the brief experience with the 205, I find it is harder to roll especially with alot of fuel. Flaps seem to deploy at a lower speed than you would like it to be but I think it just needs getting used to
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Ah, so you have flown them...
:rofl
:aok
Yeah, the 202 has sorta been my pet plane since it was first introduced, usually getting a handful of sorties in it the tours I played.
Last tour was a little different, since I flew little else actually. I almost managed to get twice the combined kills of everyone else in Late War Arena :lol
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i tend to like seeing the c202's coming at me. i know that they're someone that's gonna fight me, no matter what....if they have the advantage(well...that's everyone), or even if they're at a serious disadvantage......it seems the guys that fly them just want to get down n dirty till someone dies a gruesome cartoon death.
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Not to mention that they have trouble excaping most planes.
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Not to mention that they have trouble excaping most planes.
trust me when i tell you i'm not the ideal pee38 driver......... :D
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I'm not a pilot in the game, yet I still evaded two P-47's with a massive E advantage in my 109E. Even got one after a while. Unfortunatly, I lost sight of the other one and didn't see him creaping up on my 6.
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I agree. I have usually flown the typhie and with the brief experience with the 205, I find it is harder to roll especially with alot of fuel. Flaps seem to deploy at a lower speed than you would like it to be but I think it just needs getting used to
You should avoid using flaps in 205 as much as possible. Once you deploy flaps you are almost doomed to a certain death.
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Been flying it recently too. I fly it like a 109 naturally but find it lacks th rudder authority and the deployment rate of the flaps. to counter this I simply tend to do more negative maneuvers to enable myself to deploy flaps quicker. Had a great fight with WaX the other night, he in K4 I in 205. We spiralled downward from 15k to the deck and I could not seem to slow the plane down until I finally got below 185 mph. After pulling one notch of flaps I was able to get a shot on him but it was indeed a splendid fight and after that particular moment and the monster reversal/lag roll I performed on MUZIK I was convinced that the C205 is a worthy aircraft.
perdweeb
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rather than starting a new thread, here may be a decent place to thank potsnpans for a fun fight, although he did spill a lot of aeroshell out of my #2 engine for me. he then dispatched the guy i had asked to stay out of the fight, and since i wasn't smart enough to take my broken pee38 home while he was distracted, he then came over and broke more pieces off of it for me.
:aok
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If your out turnfighting zekes and F4Fs in a 205 or a 202, you're some kind of genius.
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I once got wheels up in a 205.....it went downhill after that.
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If you want to talk to someone that is exceptional in the 205 talk to potsnpans, he is the best I have seen in it since it came into the game.
ab8aac/dmdchief
out
+1....he is simply the best in that plane and don't kid yourself, he gets low and slow in it too...great flaps on that a/c.
:salute
Changeup
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Yup, potNpans definately makes for a white knuckle fight in that bird.
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You guys are really making me want to fly that thing again. Too bad I'm not any good in it.
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I'd say it's performance is in between 109G6 and G2, the G2 being the better and boils down to time behind the wheel. When bringing 100% fuel, burn Aux. tank then manually select main and wait 5 seconds and then tap fuel select to auto burn wing tanks. If you like to be slapped like a clubbed footed St Louis Rams fan, then the 205V is for you, but dam its fun to fly.
I'd listen to Pots he's one of the best I've fought in the C models be a great person to duel also
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They are basicaly high alt planes..... Get up high swoop in and get out.. only get in a battle above 15k and you will turn on a whistle
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I'd listen to Pots he's one of the best I've fought in the C models be a great person to duel also
I will take his advice.
Im glad to see that the C2 gets some respect. Most put off Typhy, LA, Pony, Spixteen and Nik drivers as typical what you would see in the MA. I think they get a bad rep because most use them as pork n auger or pick and run type planes and really dont fly them to their limits. It may mean more trips to the tower, but in the long run, you do become better in it
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Potsnpans play much? Haven't seen him one more than once or twice, and I would be interested in getting some help in the C2.
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Burning the wing tanks does little to help, since your roll rate is hindered by 500+ lbs of 20mm cannons + ammo already. It's a very small amount of fuel in the wings, and I wouldn't bother switching from auto drain 99 times out of 100.
I was flying the C2 in the MAs for years before it was "popular" (seems all the planes are getting their 15 minutes these days), and from experience:
- NEVER use flaps. EVER. Not even coming over the top of a loop. Better to stall and recover without them than to lower them.
- Don't get TOO slow. Keep it above wallowing-speed and you'll do really well against most planes
- Spits still eat it for breakfast. Just don't be fooled by poorly flown spits. They hold all the cards and should be targeted first and removed from the fight ASAP when you fly a C2.
- Neither is it a great turner nor a great diver, and it also is not that great at very high alts. It simply is a fairly decent plane. Best compromise I could do is describe it as "flies like a 109, fights like a 190" but it really is somewhere smack dab in between the two.
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C.205 make nice snacks for P-38s.
ack-ack
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From my experience, C205 is an awesome plane. The only lacking quality is its 4 Minutes of WEP. If you only use it when going verticle or to extend away, it normally isn't all that big of a disadvantage.
It turns great, as long as you turn it in the verticle with a roll, think 109. Also, trim your elevator up and it will dance and improve roll rate much like a 109.
It's cannons don't hit well, and I wouldn't suggest using them beyond 200-300yards.
I've gotten more kills in the thing with well placed .50cal than with the cannons.
Also remember, from the deck to about 4000 feet, this thing can outclimb most anything in the game. If you have to get low and slow, you can often get your advantage back quicker than your opponent if you can extend.
C205 was my first plane in here, and I still up it every once in a while. I think it's completely underrated, and I'm always hesitant of going up against one when I see it. Normally, the pilot knows what they're doing.
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From my experience, C205 is an awesome plane. The only lacking quality is its 4 Minutes of WEP. If you only use it when going verticle or to extend away, it normally isn't all that big of a disadvantage.
It turns great, as long as you turn it in the verticle with a roll, think 109. Also, trim your elevator up and it will dance and improve roll rate much like a 109.
It's cannons don't hit well, and I wouldn't suggest using them beyond 200-300yards.
I've gotten more kills in the thing with well placed .50cal than with the cannons.
Also remember, from the deck to about 4000 feet, this thing can outclimb most anything in the game. If you have to get low and slow, you can often get your advantage back quicker than your opponent if you can extend.
C205 was my first plane in here, and I still up it every once in a while. I think it's completely underrated, and I'm always hesitant of going up against one when I see it. Normally, the pilot knows what they're doing.
i've actually found the c2's to be kinda like the 38's.....there is no middle ground. it's either someone that hasn't a clue in it(like me) or it's someone in it that's gonna hand ya back your rump in short order.
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i've actually found the c2's to be kinda like the 38's.....there is no middle ground. it's either someone that hasn't a clue in it(like me) or it's someone in it that's gonna hand ya back your rump in short order.
really? I find the C.205 to be one of the easier planes to face in the P-38.
ack-ack
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really? I find the C.205 to be one of the easier planes to face in the P-38.
ack-ack
Think he was saying either they are well flown or not...like the B-38 either well flown or not. He wasn't comparing the planes to eachother.
WMBohicA
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Think he was saying either they are well flown or not...like the B-38 either well flown or not. He wasn't comparing the planes to eachother.
WMBohicA
you are exactly right.
and for the record, although i've been in the 38 for awhile now, i don't find anything to be an easy kill in it.....unless it's me. :noid
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Think he was saying either they are well flown or not...like the B-38 either well flown or not. He wasn't comparing the planes to eachother.
WMBohicA
And I'm speaking from a reference to a plane vs. plane comparison not a pilot vs. pilot comparison.
ack-ack
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And I'm speaking from a reference to a plane vs. plane comparison not a pilot vs. pilot comparison.
ack-ack
i was talking pilot vs pilot.
the thing i find in the 38, is that the pile-it is either VERY good, or VERY bad. there doesn't seem to be an "in between"
i find the same to be true to the c2's i come across.
other planes, i seem to find all skill levels, although with planes like the spits, and hurris it's kinda hard to tell.
i've seen a few more people flying the p47, which i think is cool.
i think the 190's get a bad rap, because most that fly them, drop, shoot, and run. it's rare to find a good fight against a 190 pile-it, although i have.
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I enjoy the 205 a lot. the 202 not so much so. Typically I like just about everything the game has to offer but that damned 38G...I need to take that thing out more often.
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I enjoy the 205 a lot. the 202 not so much so. Typically I like just about everything the game has to offer but that damned 38G...I need to take that thing out more often.
i have a lot of trouble in the "G". if i manage to saddle up on a con, i can't see crap out through that dam bullet proof shield they put in there. i find that i can't afford mistakes as much in the g, as i can in the j, due to its lack of power compared to the j.
someday, i'm gonna start flying the g till i can survive in it.
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Well, CAP1, from their possition, slashing attacks make good solid sense. If you can outrun 90% of the planes, why turn? Even the 190A5 (second slowest on the deck) can almost hit 375 at 5k, which is pretty good.
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The 202 is a blast, and one of my favorite screwing around rides. Leave the wing mounted .303s at home. All they do is make you think you are hitting with the .50s when you are in fact not. The increase in damage is negligible, and you may as well shed the few extra lbs.
Any damage you can inflict with a 202 is important. The weight of the 7.7s doesn't seem to affect performance in the least (which is kind of surprising, the plane doesn't weigh very much), so I've always thought it helps to bring them along. The weird ammunition for the 12.7s requires you to be at 7.7 range anyhow to get the desired effect, so I just set the covergence for all four at 200 yards.
That said, I find that most of the few kills I get in a 202 are caused by the other guy auguring.
- oldman
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Well, CAP1, from their possition, slashing attacks make good solid sense. If you can outrun 90% of the planes, why turn? Even the 190A5 (second slowest on the deck) can almost hit 375 at 5k, which is pretty good.
i wish i could remember the dudes name.......flying an a5.......we merged at about 5k alt. the fight went slightly downhill, which i didn't want, as i was bordering on going too fast.
the fight lasted 3 or 4 minutes i think. this dude turned that thing like it was a zeek. i had several fights against him, and everyone was a friggin blast.....inclulding the ones i lost.
i fought against buldog2 in a 190 a week or so ago. it was a running fight. he kept his speed up well, as we were on the deck. in the end, i got him, by sheer luck, but again.......he turned that thing VERY nicely.
if you know how to do it, anything can turn pretty well.
if all they do is run, how are they gonna learn to do anything else?
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The next scenario will have C.202's and/or C.205's in it (Siege of Malta / Operation Pedestal).
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i have a lot of trouble in the "G". if i manage to saddle up on a con, i can't see crap out through that dam bullet proof shield they put in there.
I think the transparency in the P-38G might be hampered by the modelling in AH of using the "gunsight dark glass," which was in the real-life P-38G to be used only optionally at pilot's discretion in bright sunlight. In AH, the use of this extra layer of glass in the way of the gunsight reduces transparency, making it very hard to see through the gunsight compared to many other aircraft in AH, even other versions of the P-38.
From the P-38 manual, this is the layout for the gunsight of early P-38's:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/p38gSight.jpg)
where the manual says "When flying in bright sunlight, place the dark glass in position over the gunsight. Later airplanes are not equiped with gunsight dark glass." The gunsight dark glass was stowed in a holder at the left side of the cockpit when not in use.
From the P-38G cockpit in Aces High:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/p38gAhGunsight.jpg)
It seems that the gunsight dark glass is permanently installed. Given that we can't toggle such a feature, I think that it would be better if it were permanently not installed for visibility in the Aces High environment.
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CAP1, what were you in? You mention being on the verge of going too fast, which makes me think you guys were doing 350 at least.
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i wish i could remember the dudes name.......flying an a5.......we merged at about 5k alt. the fight went slightly downhill, which i didn't want, as i was bordering on going too fast.
If you find yourself going to fast in a nose low turn fight, chop throttle and don't be afraid to use cross controls to slow you down. Never go full throttle in a nose low turn fight otherwise you'll experience exactly what happened to you. Honestly, using proper speed control in a nose low turn you wouldn't have had that problem with the FW190A-5 or any other FW190 type.
ack-ack
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CAP1, what were you in? You mention being on the verge of going too fast, which makes me think you guys were doing 350 at least.
Or it could mean the FW190 was doing 150mph IAS and CAP1 was doing 250mph IAS.
ack-ack
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really? I find the C.205 to be one of the easier planes to face in the P-38.
ack-ack
From a C2 perspective it really depends on who enters the fight in a better position. Whoever tends to have better position will always make it easier on themselves. Example: A P-38 bounces my tail with lots of E, chances are it will be a very hard fight to stay alive. Example 2: A P-38 is crossing 90 degrees too me as I break hard to pull in behind him, chances are after a little manuvering he'll be dead.
EDIT: I guess that goes into the fact that the C2 isn't very good defensively. It's okay, but definitely a weakness with the poor turning capabilities.
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CAP1, what were you in? You mention being on the verge of going too fast, which makes me think you guys were doing 350 at least.
i was in a p38j. i was lucky to be able to stay close enough to him to keep him from having a good chance at reversing me........he did get a good shot on me, and shortly after he went in, i lost #2 engine.
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If you find yourself going to fast in a nose low turn fight, chop throttle and don't be afraid to use cross controls to slow you down. Never go full throttle in a nose low turn fight otherwise you'll experience exactly what happened to you. Honestly, using proper speed control in a nose low turn you wouldn't have had that problem with the FW190A-5 or any other FW190 type.
ack-ack
i'm getting better at keeping my speed under control.....not there yet, but i can actually see a difference in me now, as compared to 6 months ago.........sometimes i still get too dam timid though, which i'm also getting out of little by little.
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Any damage you can inflict with a 202 is important. The weight of the 7.7s doesn't seem to affect performance in the least (which is kind of surprising, the plane doesn't weigh very much), so I've always thought it helps to bring them along. The weird ammunition for the 12.7s requires you to be at 7.7 range anyhow to get the desired effect, so I just set the covergence for all four at 200 yards.
That said, I find that most of the few kills I get in a 202 are caused by the other guy auguring.
- oldman
I agree that the 7.7's don't largely impact performance, which is why I mentioned that in the first place. However, the bigger thing for me is knowing that I am hitting with decent ammunition. Augers are big, but on a good day I can get 2-3 cons with just the .50s. (Good day being key term here. :lol) Just personal preference, I suppose.