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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: milesobrian on August 24, 2010, 05:32:13 PM

Title: Co pilot
Post by: milesobrian on August 24, 2010, 05:32:13 PM
This is just a question mostly and its something i dont feel strong about either way as i dont usually fly planes that have two pilots...but if the game modeled the co pilot as well as the pilot (the person you start out as), if the pilot gets killed assuming the co pilot wasnt also killed (or maybe even wounded) should the player have the option to fly as the co pilot as well?


If this were to be implemented what kinda game play changes might we see.  would this be a good thing or a bad thing.  I believe historically pilots being killed meant the co pilot had to take over, what is the historical president regarding this?  would the co pilot even survive a strafing of the cockpit where the pilot as also hit?

Again this is mostly a question, something i want to learn more about, but if it would be good for the game then their is no reason it should be implemented other wise leave it out.  I think tho that it would make things a LITTLE bit more complex in a more historically accurate way.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Pigslilspaz on August 24, 2010, 09:35:53 PM
I would rather have another cartoon pilot in the co-pilots seat, would definately add immersion in some planes like the Ju-88, where the whole crew were sat together
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: BrownBaron on August 24, 2010, 09:42:06 PM
would the co pilot even survive a strafing of the cockpit where the pilot as also hit?

This seems sort of obvious to me. If a person sitting a foot away from you is shot with a .50 caliber round, you would be unharmed, assuming the dozens of other rounds did not strike you.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: 321BAR on August 24, 2010, 09:51:20 PM
copilots should be allowed... a second life kind of for bomber pilots :aok that and the fact that bomber crews would man unmanned positions if necessary to do the job
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: guncrasher on August 24, 2010, 10:29:19 PM
think, about it, the co-pilot just saw the pilot get blown away.  now he has two choices:

A. continue to fly and get blown away to.
B. bail out while he has a chance.


If it was me, I would bail out.

Now, seriously stop trying to game the game.  next thing you gonna ask is if the copilot gets killed let the gunners take control of the plane.  after all it did happened in ww2.


semp
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: 321BAR on August 24, 2010, 11:10:29 PM
Now, seriously stop trying to game the game.  next thing you gonna ask is if the copilot gets killed let the gunners take control of the plane.  after all it did happened in ww2.
you just killed your own argument. personally i dont care much for this i just +1 it and added my 2 cents. if it happened in WWII, then you cant call it gaming the game. besides, if the pilot dies, then expect the bomber to die soon anyways because hes in trouble. you really expect to shoot out the pilot, followed by the copilot, followed by...etcetcetc? usually if the pilot is wounded its in a HO with the bomber and the fighter will pull out and finish it off in quick succession.

how is it gaming the game at all by giving the bomber a second chance with a copilot? it barely extends the bomber's life!
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: milesobrian on August 24, 2010, 11:26:13 PM
If it was me, I would bail out.

semp

even knowing your crew and others are dependent on you?  You would bail out, with out giving your crew a chance.  What if you were over enemy territory ?

This is interesting because this MIGHT have been the thoughts of some real life co pilots or other crews.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: FA_Refugee on August 24, 2010, 11:27:02 PM
I'm not ready for this forum (game).  Copilot?...please..."make it real or else forget about it"....If you want a copilot...imagine a smooth one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXp413NynFk

 :banana:  peace...Eclipse
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: 321BAR on August 24, 2010, 11:27:30 PM
even knowing your crew and others are dependent on you?  You would bail out, with out giving your crew a chance.  What if you were over enemy territory ?

This is interesting because this MIGHT have been the thoughts of some real life co pilots or other crews.
human psychology man. you never know until it happens. one may bail, one may not.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: FA_Refugee on August 24, 2010, 11:51:50 PM
 :x great fun without copilot...I'm going down!!
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/bruce-springsteen-i-m-going-down/27a7dd1e4649185a227a27a7dd1e4649185a227a-166633734144?q=springsteen%20going%20down
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Pigslilspaz on August 25, 2010, 01:30:26 AM
stop with stupid song links, O Club is over there --> :noid
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Meatwad on August 25, 2010, 06:45:41 AM
Heres your co-pilot

(http://www.vagabondish.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ottopilot.jpg)
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: VonMessa on August 25, 2010, 08:10:26 AM
Feeling lonely, guys?
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: uptown on August 25, 2010, 08:25:11 AM
Heres your co-pilot

(http://www.vagabondish.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ottopilot.jpg)
:rofl :rofl Meatwad
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: hitech on August 25, 2010, 10:43:23 AM
I am always amazed when a completely new idea emerges, this is a request we have never consider. I'll think about it.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Bruv119 on August 25, 2010, 10:51:13 AM
would it be possible for a co-pilot/gunner in buffs to do exactly that?  Vacate the pilot seat so the second guy can man the controls.   

What would be cool if say in a mossie.  One guy could fire the rockets and bombs whilst the other guy flies and swap seats.   Say i'm flying with kazaa and he fancies a nap on the way home i can take over etc
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: guncrasher on August 25, 2010, 11:24:26 AM
even knowing your crew and others are dependent on you?  You would bail out, with out giving your crew a chance.  What if you were over enemy territory ?

This is interesting because this MIGHT have been the thoughts of some real life co pilots or other crews.

this is not war, it is a game.  war is when the ups doesnt deliver your gaming stuff on time  :furious.


semp
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Pand on August 25, 2010, 12:03:05 PM
I'd be interested to know if this is already implemented in some way... let me explain:

In a fighter if I take a pilot wound, you get 'roughly' 8 blackouts (varying in length and time between) before your pilot dies.

In a bomber (which would have a copilot--- note I don't fly very often so can't say this is a trend), I was pilot wounded, and continued to fly for another 20+ minutes to get back to base.  I was blacking out every 15 to 20 seconds and tallied over 20 actual blackouts before I stopped counting... that aircraft never died and I brought my formation home successfully.

Is this is a situation where the pilot died and the co-pilot took over?  I know, I know, if we're keeping it real, then the blackouts would have theoretically stopped; however, it did seem to have an increased capacity compared to a fighter to handle the injury.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: morfiend on August 25, 2010, 01:27:59 PM
 I can see a use for a co-pilot but I dont think it should be a freeby,by that I mean there should be a cost involved.
  Maybe if you use a co-pilot the perk modifier would change and you wouldn't be awarded all the perks you'd get if you didnt use the co-pilot.

 The reason I say this is because of formations a bomber pilot has 2 co-pilots as it is in the form of drones. your first pilot gets killed/wounded and you jump to a new bomber with a new pilot!

 Where I think it would come in handy would be in planes like the A20 or Mossie that had co-pilots but dont get formations.I still think there should be a catch to this though,say you must use attack mode and not fighter mode and of course the perk modifier would be affected by the use of this "extra" life.

    :salute
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 25, 2010, 02:00:39 PM
I'd be interested to know if this is already implemented in some way... let me explain:

In a fighter if I take a pilot wound, you get 'roughly' 8 blackouts (varying in length and time between) before your pilot dies.

In a bomber (which would have a copilot--- note I don't fly very often so can't say this is a trend), I was pilot wounded, and continued to fly for another 20+ minutes to get back to base.  I was blacking out every 15 to 20 seconds and tallied over 20 actual blackouts before I stopped counting... that aircraft never died and I brought my formation home successfully.

Is this is a situation where the pilot died and the co-pilot took over?  I know, I know, if we're keeping it real, then the blackouts would have theoretically stopped; however, it did seem to have an increased capacity compared to a fighter to handle the injury.

There is no set number of black outs you receive before dying.  I got a PW last night, blacked out once came too and died about 3 seconds later.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: milesobrian on August 25, 2010, 02:06:11 PM
I am always amazed when a completely new idea emerges, this is a request we have never consider. I'll think about it.

Did i win??? the hitech posted on my topic did i win???


honestly i dont think this would make much difference, as if the pilot is killed or wounded chances are the person shooting at the bombers unless they are killed are going to make short work of what is left after they kill the pilot....but it would still make it a bit more complex...and planes like the mosquito did the moss have a co pilot?
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Beefcake on August 25, 2010, 03:12:06 PM
I would love to have a co-pilot modeled for all those buffs that have the seat. It really sucks when I lose a B17 or a B25 to a pilot wound even though there is a guy sitting right next to the pilot that could take over and fly the plane.

I realize that sometimes when the cockpit got hit it usually took out both pilots, however, there are alot of stories were the pilot was killed or wounded and the co-pilot flew the plane home. My favorite one is the "Old 666" story.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: BrownBaron on August 25, 2010, 05:01:08 PM
I'd be interested to know if this is already implemented in some way... let me explain:

In a fighter if I take a pilot wound, you get 'roughly' 8 blackouts (varying in length and time between) before your pilot dies.

In a bomber (which would have a copilot--- note I don't fly very often so can't say this is a trend), I was pilot wounded, and continued to fly for another 20+ minutes to get back to base.  I was blacking out every 15 to 20 seconds and tallied over 20 actual blackouts before I stopped counting... that aircraft never died and I brought my formation home successfully.

Is this is a situation where the pilot died and the co-pilot took over?  I know, I know, if we're keeping it real, then the blackouts would have theoretically stopped; however, it did seem to have an increased capacity compared to a fighter to handle the injury.

I'm not sure if it is completely random, or if it is also effected by the caliber of the round. For example, in the DA a squaddie PW'd me with a .303, and the pilot stayed alive for at least 10-12 minutes.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: bagrat on August 26, 2010, 01:57:49 AM
Yes 2 lives for my mossie!

+1
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Larry on August 26, 2010, 02:06:36 AM
Did i win??? the hitech posted on my topic did i win???

I think he was being sarcastic since this topic has been brought up many times.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: SuperDud on August 26, 2010, 06:26:35 AM
You get 3 planes so it's just like having 2 extra copilots.     :aok
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: FLS on August 26, 2010, 01:15:24 PM
What can two pilots in one aircraft/formation accomplish that they can't do better in two aircraft/formations?   I assume you mean for the copilot to join before the flight starts and not just have somebody join in flight if the pilot gets wounded.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Beefcake on August 26, 2010, 02:17:34 PM
FLS we're not talking about 2 players flying a single plane, we're talking about planes that should have a pilot and a co-pliot modeled, like part of the damage system. In other words when the pilot gets wounded the co-pilot should take over flying the plane unless he's also dead or wounded.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: milesobrian on August 26, 2010, 02:28:37 PM
I think he was being sarcastic since this topic has been brought up many times.

so i still got him to post in my thread i win the forums.  next i need a skuzzy post...
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: FLS on August 26, 2010, 02:54:36 PM
Double post.

Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: FLS on August 26, 2010, 03:05:36 PM
FLS we're not talking about 2 players flying a single plane, we're talking about planes that should have a pilot and a co-pliot modeled, like part of the damage system. In other words when the pilot gets wounded the co-pilot should take over flying the plane unless he's also dead or wounded.

Thanks Beefcake. That makes a lot more sense.  :D 

So your copilot could possibly now be wounded or killed even if the pilot wasn't or both could have pilot wounds. So you could be killed 6 times for 1 formation flight depending on how this would be implemented?

I suppose it should be a selectable option in the hanger if possible for those that prefer the current setup.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Guppy35 on August 26, 2010, 03:39:07 PM
Still hoping for the day we can crew up a 17 like the old AW days.  Good fun to get the squaddies all piled into one bird and go hunting in a 17 :)
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Beefcake on August 26, 2010, 04:34:34 PM
Thanks Beefcake. That makes a lot more sense.  :D 

So your copilot could possibly now be wounded or killed even if the pilot wasn't or both could have pilot wounds. So you could be killed 6 times for 1 formation flight depending on how this would be implemented?

I suppose it should be a selectable option in the hanger if possible for those that prefer the current setup.

I wouldn't say killed 6 times, it just means a B17 won't "explode" solely because the pilot was hit. Remember most of the time bombers die to fires, loss of wings or tail, etc. This would not mean bombers are any more survivable than they are now. It just means that a bomber which escapes combat with a pilot wound might make it home if the co-pilot lives.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: HatTrick on August 26, 2010, 05:33:13 PM
Funny aside to this, I was flying a formation of B-17s and had my squadmate Hadesss manning the guns.  He gets a real kick out of looking all around from the gun positions and using the external views to check out the detail of the planes.  All of a sudden he exclaims on Teamspeak, "Oh crap!!" and I'm thinking we're about to get pasted by a fighter.  I asked him what was up and he says, "There's no pilots in these planes!!!"  A good laugh was had by all on the channel.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Nemisis on August 26, 2010, 06:13:07 PM
would it be possible for a co-pilot/gunner in buffs to do exactly that?  Vacate the pilot seat so the second guy can man the controls.   

What would be cool if say in a mossie.  One guy could fire the rockets and bombs whilst the other guy flies and swap seats.   Say i'm flying with kazaa and he fancies a nap on the way home i can take over etc


I've always wondered this. I'm a better bombadier and gunner than some of my squadies, and have sometimes wished that I could hop in the guns while he flys, and then goto the bombadier.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: 321BAR on August 26, 2010, 07:05:18 PM
you know. this would be perfect. on your own, the bomber set of 3 gets a new chance at hitting your target (small chance the fighter's gonna hit the pilot anyways) and in a large bombing run (like in real life) you get a massively big chance of rtbing with the other bombers in the group (due to density of bombers and amount of targets for fighters, the fighter is much less likely to hit the same bomber twice in 2 passes).
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: FLS on August 26, 2010, 07:21:45 PM
I wouldn't say killed 6 times, it just means a B17 won't "explode" solely because the pilot was hit. Remember most of the time bombers die to fires, loss of wings or tail, etc. This would not mean bombers are any more survivable than they are now. It just means that a bomber which escapes combat with a pilot wound might make it home if the co-pilot lives.

That would be nice for scenarios.   :aok
 
I tend to think that if I kill you twice I should get 2 kills but a fighter gets one kill for a bomber regardless of crew deaths. We're used to getting a bomber kill from killing the first pilot but that could become damage points instead and only the second pilot death would cause the aircraft to explode. In effect you increase the hardness of the pilot. You're already simulating a pilot, bombardier and gunners, so adding the co-pilot isn't that big a change.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Enker on August 26, 2010, 10:00:01 PM
The next question is, would the perspective shift to the co-pilot's seat in, say, a B-24, or would the position stay the same? Also, on bombers that had 3 positions with which to control the bomber from, would the backup be modeled as well? (Were there any? I thought the B-17 and -24 could be controlled from the flight engineer's or navigator's station.)
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Nemisis on August 26, 2010, 10:17:05 PM
Don't forget that the bombardier could also fly the plane from the bombsight. Always usefull if your pilot is blacking out in a bomber.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: valad94 on August 27, 2010, 08:42:01 AM
+1
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Megalodon on August 27, 2010, 10:57:32 AM
 :noid :old:

(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/copilot.jpg?t=1282924968)
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 27, 2010, 03:31:18 PM
:noid :old:

(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/copilot.jpg?t=1282924968)

He was the most worthless co-pilot ever, would just sit there staring out the window.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: hitech on August 27, 2010, 04:02:51 PM
But can you name the person who was used for the copilot?

HiTech
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: 1701E on August 27, 2010, 04:07:34 PM
But can you name the person who was used for the copilot?

HiTech


Well it looks too good to be Pyro, it's too male to be Skuzzy, and it's too young to be You, sooo....Supafly!
 :P
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 27, 2010, 04:22:08 PM
But can you name the person who was used for the copilot?

HiTech

I didn't know the co-pilot was modeled after an actual person, who is it? 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Baumer on August 27, 2010, 06:28:20 PM
Otto?
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 27, 2010, 06:29:49 PM
Otto?

I would laugh if it was someone like DeadDuck.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Guppy35 on August 27, 2010, 06:49:49 PM
But can you name the person who was used for the copilot?

HiTech

I've always assumed it was the co-pilot from the Hollywood version of "Memphis Belle"  They're dressed identical.

(http://www.videodetective.com/photos/031/001334_11.jpg)
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Plazus on August 27, 2010, 06:53:57 PM
:noid :old:

(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/copilot.jpg?t=1282924968)

Airwarrior. Good ole days.  :)
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: sky25 on August 29, 2010, 04:07:40 PM
If your pilot were drinking, the co pilot could easily take over. I have seen many drunk flying pilots in the main arenas.. Should be a law against it.. :salute
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: guncrasher on August 29, 2010, 06:13:10 PM
Right get rid of the drunk people and ah staff would be cut in 1/2.  As for the players, we stop drinking and we won't play.


Semp
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: Nemisis on August 29, 2010, 09:07:25 PM
In the game, I keep hearing jokes about how drunk the HTC staff must have been to crank out trees that flip 50ton tigers, and how they must have put them in so they can laugh at the GV'ers. Doubt its as bad as all that, but I suspect some of the HTC staff don't much fancy GV's.



And half my squad flys when drunk. Hell, one of them is called 49Drunk.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: SEseph on August 29, 2010, 10:52:41 PM
:noid :old:

(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/copilot.jpg?t=1282924968)

Haven't seen him in years.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: cooldued on September 10, 2010, 04:05:09 AM
stop with stupid song links, O Club is over there --> :noid
no thats the co- pilot who bailed from his hellicopter and the mikanic that got awy.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: 321BAR on September 10, 2010, 10:45:40 AM
no thats the co- pilot who bailed from his hellicopter and the mikanic that got awy.
HE'S BAAACCCKKKK!!1 :cry
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: LLogann on September 10, 2010, 09:23:50 PM
(http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/0CAC776F-A863-4ACC-9645-749852F9A5D5/HU014573.jpg)
I am always amazed when a completely new idea emerges, this is a request we have never consider. I'll think about it.
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: cooldued on September 11, 2010, 12:02:16 AM
oh i just thought o something ells did you know that engineers also doubled as gunners if gun was not damaged? know joke!

[edit] ops i spelled no know lol
Title: Re: Co pilot
Post by: LLogann on September 11, 2010, 12:06:27 AM
Yes we did....... No Joke!   :aok

oh i just thought o something ells did you know that engineers also doubled as gunners if gun was not damaged? know joke!