Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: nrshida on September 10, 2010, 07:30:09 AM
-
Thought about some constructive suggestions to improve the Duelling Arena.
Obviously 'improve' is a subjective term so I'd better qualify that.
I attribute the annoyance from some of the old-timers directed to the DA to the fact that it was once, indeed, purely a duelling arena (before killshooter & F3 mode).
The changes and rise in popularity of the furbal lake has made the name of this arena misleading and causes a lot of pointless argument regarding what 'should' go on there.
The arena as it is now laid out is wasteful of space and could be improved to ALSO facilitate and promote duelling.
Here are my suggestions for some changes:-
Leave the furbal lake as it is. It now has a regular player base of its own and a 'law of the jungle' area is an asset to the community, perk planes, picking Tempests and chogs, ganging et al (bear with me here).
Leave the Canyons as they are. They are unique and do see a lot of usage. Not the least of which for SDL and also BaldEagle's tri-annual duelling competition.
For the remaining real estate of the arena I propose a change of terrain. Currently there is too much variety in the terrain and altitudes of the private duelling fields. Ideally we need several copies of the field at A23/24, without hills etc. Perhaps a couple of those could use desert-type terrain with no trees at all. Good to keep at least one or two high altitude duelling fields, then those who wish it can easily merge at any agreed alt with as much space as they please.
Remove the PT area, the tank duelling area and the bomber run. Those areas are sort of replicated in the TA and are essentially unused (apparently).
Add a new rolling 1 on 1 area. I think we need two sepearate fields for this, one low level flat terrain with bases on the ground and one exactly the same but with the bases elevated to say 5k or 7k alt. Need a bit more spacing between airfields to increase capacity of each field beyond two aircraft (room to head West, East, centre, etc. for a merge).
These fields would facilite pure duelling (same plane), 1 on 1s (dissimilar planes), low alt fights and also fights with aircraft prefering a little alt under their wings at the merge. The final component needed for those fields is as follows:-
This suggestion goes a little further than altering the terrain. I propose the introduction of a new realtime duelling register. Anyone upping from any one of those four rolling 1 on 1 bases automatically has their details appearing on a cross-arena register, which could be accessed with a dot command in a similar way to how '.sr' works now, say '.da' for example. A list would pop up on the clipboard showing player ID, aircraft and location (which one of the four rolling 1 on 1 bases they are at).
So at any time of the international day, any player with minimum communication can find like-minded players for a duel, in any of it's forms. The rules would be the standard community-accepted duelling rules, cold merge at the altitude of the base, no diving until icon range etc. etc.
Last piece, a new arena message, explaining exactly the purpose of the seperate areas clearly, and warning that griefers of the private Duelling Fields or rolling 1 on 1 areas will have films submitted of their actions which will result in a temporary suspension of their accounts. Thus the Arena can be policed with a minimum overhead of work for staff, trainers etc. Can't really see how that policing solution could be abused and it has proved effective in the past.
I have tried to think of ways to maximise improvements and facilities for every player's interests while keeping the work needed for modification to a minimum.
Changing the terrain would perhaps only need a volunteer specialist map-maker. The other alterations are the new arena message and the cross-arena duelling register. I'm not sure how much programming the latter would need, but in principal it would be similar in function to the .sr command we already have. So I think it's feasable.
Anyway it's just a suggestion. If anyone has any better ideas, or can point out faults and disadvantages with my proposal, please do contribute. My idea is that we could all come up with a useful solution for everyone, without anyone having to lose something they already have.
-
I don't know where to begin systematically tearing apart your wish and why it's a bad idea, not to mention why it's likely not to happen. So I'll leave you with this:
:huh :huh
You take apart places you believe are not good, yet I personally, and I think many others, have used most of the areas in the DA. We use to have Jeep club way down in the SE, and we still take bombers from around the area into the 'mixing bowl' for kicks. Many squads (Screaming Eagles for one) use(d) most every Field to the west, NW of the 'mixing bowl' for squad dueling. Alts are nice because the planes perform differently at differing alts. Also, most wouldn't like to try to avoid the terrain (other than the deck) while trying to practice with fighters.
Secondly, you want a new arena a virtual overhaul of the entire DA server.. HTC has enough on it's plate rather than fix the DA. Their primary concern would (assumption here, but I feel it's a well founded one) be the MA's. They are working on damage modeling etc etc... because that is where the core of their subscribers are (+/-)90% of the time.
Oh, and the .da command... open the friggin clipboard, go to roster, scan the 30 odd names (I know, hard job, but hey) and then right click their name and hit GO TO. If you have to change countries... go to the O Club and change countries. You can do the changing country thing a couple of times every second if you wish. And to head off the rebuke of you wanting to duel said person so why go to their country, why not just ask them? why do we need a command?
My head hurts.
-
I'm a little surprised you can draw the conclusion that I'm trying to take anyting from anybody, or trying to shape the arena to suit my personal views of what is good or bad, given what I wrote. I did invite a constructive discussion did I not? Have I perhaps posted this in the wrong section? It was not clear where else I should place it.
My comments regarding the unused areas are based on observation. In the last year I've seen the PT area used once, the tank area once and the bomber runs only purpose has been as you suggested, to fly bombers into the lake. Of course I am not there 24 hours a day, hence the invitation for input. If they are indeed used then we should keep them, in keeping with what I've said. As far as the private duelling fields go, A23/24, currently, is the preferred location. If that's not available most duellists go to the next most similar field. I believe I did mention retaining some high-alt fields.
How does changing the map and adding an arena message constitute an overhaul of the whole DA server? Don't the maps change in the MA every week or so? As far as I can see the duelling register would be the only part requiring any development of code and that is possibly a slight change. That isn't even a pressing feature.
Respectfully I think you've completely misunderstood the intention of the duelling register. I don't really understand what you're suggesting with your last paragraph. It's not a question of laziness, there is quite a core of regular active duellers, who are all living in different time zones. My idea was to help regular duellists find each other easily and with a minimum of communication. Just turn up and go. Isn't this one of the features that was lost with the changes to the arena?
OK you're right, 90% of the players are in the MA most of the time. How come then there are so many complaints about the DA, for many many years on these forums? Is hacking away at the place and the player-base constructive?
I have tried to suggest the smallest amount of work to make a change to something I have read many complaints about. My suggestion was no more than a starting point for discussion.
May I ask if this is standard procedure to devalue and deny any suggestion on the wishlist because you (for instance) think it will take development resources away from new features which you deem more important? Isn't that for the management of HTC to decide?
Respectfully, nrshida.
-
personally I think bringing H2H back for subscribers only will solve most dueler's concerns.
Someone can make a custom map, lock the arena with a password known only to the people on the register.
-
:aok
personally I think bringing H2H back for subscribers only will solve most dueler's concerns.
Someone can make a custom map, lock the arena with a password known only to the people on the register.
:aok
-
Good concept. The only other thing I'd really like to see is a 1v1 league, hosted by a bot or the server. And I only suggest a bot/server tool for this league to allow for ease of duel set ups. This way its not some forum chase game to find a time, you just log in and say, "Hey, there's that noob Dr. Bone!" .duel DrBone , then he could accept/decline. And depending on the 3 or 5 duel result a win or loss would be posted. (And I'll say it anyway, but I'm sure he already knows. I use the word noob in jest.)
-
personally I think bringing H2H back for subscribers only will solve most dueler's concerns.
Someone can make a custom map, lock the arena with a password known only to the people on the register.
or how about....
Furballers who want externals and constant shooting can make H2H room and hitech gives us back the old DA with no external view and no killshooter.
yes, definitely. :aok
-
What Nrshida is proposing dumbed down is a 1v1 DA Matchmaking system, like Company of Heroes Automatch or Halo 3's game finder.
I think its a brilliant idea. besides, I taught him how to fight in the first place, might as well watch him do it :D
-
No, sorry, sounds like a load of console gaming rubbish to me.
Believe it or not us duelers have our own little community too thanks. We have been around since before the dweeb lake community too in case no one noticed.
We like meeting in the Dueling Arena and having some duels. Have done for many years through all the changes without complaining about anything.
Now all we want is the odd wish, like remove F3 view. Or let us fly A20s in duels no matter if some dweeb is going to bomb the furball. We don't get our wish, so we stay quiet and deal with it.
To suggest that now the 5 years plus community of duelers is to be pushed into 1 on 1 match making programs is a crock of poo. Just so the furballers can do what exactly? They have the arena settings how they want. They have a huge lake to fight over. Why now are you saying the duelers should clear off, what you need the rest of the map for??
no sir, I dont like it :)
-
I remember awhile back one of the map makers was trying to make a new DA....not sure if it will ever see the light though.
-
nrshida, while I don't necessarily agree with all of your post (GV area) it really was well thought out and well written. I wish more people would take the time to really think about what they are asking.
You are correct, there is a fair amount of wasted space.
Like others have mentioned I think the long term answer is the user configurable arena's.
Trying to bring what everyone wants into one arena, without problems from griefers and newbs can get pretty tough. And historically HT has pretty much kept the DA "hands off", a refuge of sorts for those who don't fit in elsewhere. I suspect it would be tough sledding to get much in the way of changes in there.
-
Hey Batty, I'm a member of what you called the dweeb lake community. That's fighting talk, you great big daisy :neener:. I had no part in you lot losing how it was before, F3 mode, killshooter or any of that. Despite that, here I am trying to contribute simple ideas so that there is a gain while no one loses anything.
I also consider myself a duellist too (amongst other things), I just don't have the years in game that you do yet. It's fine if you only want to duel your friends. I was trying to suggest a duelling service for everyone, not only the old-school duellers.
The suggestion was NOT for a COMPULSORY duelling register. I suggested two small specialist fields for this. All the other private fields used exactly the same way as they currently are (new terrain suggestions aside).
Here's how I imagined the duelling register to work: You could be in any arena, MA Orange for example and you're bored & feel like a 1 on 1. You type '.da' in the console and out of the clipboard pops something like this:
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9421/duellingregister.jpg)
(There's be more names and aircraft types, but I got bored of Photoshopping those little pixels, it's just an example).
The list would be of players already at the special rolling 1 on 1 / duelling field(s). Also an open invitation for other players to join in. If you are at another playing field of the DA your callsign would not even appear. I thought one of the major complaints was you fellas couldn't find duels as quickly anymore. Show-n-go. Less time arranging, more time duelling.
I gather the F3 mode is an arena setting, thus cannot be selectively turned on or off at particular fields. I do not support F3 myself, I simply mentioned (in the other thread) that some folks use it a lot, and they would lose out if it was disabled.
Ghosth, thank you for your comments. I don't know anything about H2H or user-configurable arenas because it was before my time. But wouldn't that require a player to set it up and be present while it is there etc? My idea was for a sort of casual show up and join in area. Make good use of some of the free space.
True, always tough sledding to suggest a constructive change Ghost. But better to try and fail than to never try at all!
Respectfully, nrshida.
-
good stuff Shida,
You've put a lot of effort into this :salute maybe this can get the ball rolling on some future DA/ 1v1 changes
-
fighting talk indeed ya daisy! :)
I don't like it still. We like sitting in agroups of 10-15 people on channel dueling between us all. It's community amoung duelers that is the reason we enjoy it as well as the fights.
I am happy with what we have now in the DA setup, but I would not be happy if the next xhange was to relocate the duelers. Relocate the furballers if someone is to be relocated. PvP dueling setups? Where is the fun in that?
Please either leave the DA alone as is now, or if changes are to be made, please change it back to waht it was before the last changes.
S! Shida, just a discusion.
-
One thing that would be nice is setting up all the vaious altitude bases in rows of three like the canyon area rather than paired up. If that were to happen I may consider moving the bracket tournament around occasionally and modifying merge alts periodically to introduce some variations to the tournaments. Then again, maybe I wouldn't. At least there would be the option if there were more of each type of field set-up.
Also a possibility would be seperating at least a couple of the low alt bases by water for those who prefer not to deal with terrain. If there were say 5 groups of three maybe the north seperation is terrain and the south seperation is water.
-
I think the mission editor could be modified to allow duelers to create dueling matchups. This would allow a player to create his own duel and post the mission. Instead of a start time use ready buttons and away you go.
It would also be helpful for the squadron training I do as well (assuming one could create variation on the 1 v 1 such as 1 v 2, 2 v 2, 4 v 4 etc)
-
Why complicate things from what they are now? Duelers are not asking for these changes. None of you suggesting for this dueling exchange thing ever accept my requests for a one on one when I'm looking for someone to fly with. How often do you duel? Open question to anyone.
-
I'd say I duel 15 hours a month approximately 300 duels a month, I'd like to see the f3 removed. I'd like to see a new arena strictly for dueling putting you up at the alt and random plane selection ect for ranks, and unrank fun.
-
well as a regular dueler Dep, what makes you feel the current arena named the Dueling Arena is not where duels should be. Why is it you suggest moving the duels from the dueling arena and making a new arena for dueling in?
Nrshida and I have had some awesome fights at dweeb lake. That doesnt change the name from dweeb lake though. It's a lake for dweebery during peak hours. I didnt even address that because I know he knows I wasnt calling him a dweeb and his defence of the lake been called dweeb lake was the same knee jerk defence I am putting up now about our dueling arena.
At the end of the day, If the furballer need F3 view that to bad for the duelers. I would rather just keep it as it is. I can respect that a new community has formed around dweeb lake and I do my best not to spoil their fun. But if one group has to move it should not be the original dueling community.
-
well as a regular dueler Dep, what makes you feel the current arena named the Dueling Arena is not where duels should be. Why is it you suggest moving the duels from the dueling arena and making a new arena for dueling in?
Nrshida and I have had some awesome fights at dweeb lake. That doesnt change the name from dweeb lake though. It's a lake for dweebery during peak hours. I didnt even address that because I know he knows I wasnt calling him a dweeb and his defence of the lake been called dweeb lake was the same knee jerk defence I am putting up now about our dueling arena.
At the end of the day, If the furballer need F3 view that to bad for the duelers. I would rather just keep it as it is. I can respect that a new community has formed around dweeb lake and I do my best not to spoil their fun. But if one group has to move it should not be the original dueling community.
I'd just like to see some technology brought into the dueling concept. We all know how many people like to duel, its no question that a big community of us that enjoy it. And we all know that the technology is there to use an automated arena that puts you in the air at a certain altitude you and your opponent agrees to with the plane you want or random plane for the rank section. You would be able to duel any person you wanted to, even a pacific person of your choosing to duel. You would be brought into a lobby and you can pull up a map and see the duels going on in "duel heaven" you could watch any fight you wanted to in god mode, or decide to join one of the planes in the duel without interrupting them and without them knowing you were even there.
Picture this, you get on the game and see "Dueling Arena" with 15 people in the arena. You click on the arena and you know theres 15 people ready to duel with the exception of afkers.
You could also create multiple plane match-ups for squad practice or even for SDL match-ups. Even for BE's tournaments could use this arena.
The idea of starting 6k away from another plane knowing you both are at the exactly same speed, same plane, everything is even except ACM. Even now when you take off you are never at the exact same speed 6k away, but it's normally close enough where it doesn't really matter.
But with technology you will be able to get more duels in and also know the ranks of all the players and it will also give you a chance to meet new people trying to improve, and also give the new players a chance to watch live from ones plane who is good at the game. I could talk forever about this subject but this should give you an idea of where I'd like to see it go.
New arena for dueling and change the old one to furball arena.
-
Ranks? Air spawns? Dueling heaven?
three words,
oh god no
:eek:
Sorry, i'll quit the discussion as we will not being seeing eye to eye on it.
-
Ranks? Air spawns? Dueling heaven?
three words,
oh god no
:eek:
Sorry, i'll quit the discussion as we will not being seeing eye to eye on it.
You like the old school way ehh, np with that everyone different. :salute
-
yeppers we all are different, that much I agree with! Keeps things interesting.
S!
-
I'd also like to see the old school dueling accomodated where both players took off from the same field going in opposite directions then turned back at a predetermined distance (usually icon range) to start the merge.
-
Here's my .02 cents....
Perhaps it would be possible to eliminate one of the three WWI arenas, and replace it with a modified DA map. This map would remove all areas East of sector line 13 and West of sector line 7. This would only leave the various altitude fields as well as the canyons. In this arena it would be understood that fair duelling is the only acceptable practice and any "griefing" would be grounds for removal from said arena. Furthermore, I would like to see friendly fire enabled, as well as friendly collisions.
P.S. I am in no way aware of what type of computer hijinx would be required to perform such an action. This is merely my suggestion that would allow for the furballers and duellers to have their own respective areas for competition. I almost forgot, no F3 in modified arena. :devil
<S> Melvin
-
I'd say I duel 15 hours a month approximately 300 duels a month, I'd like to see the f3 removed. I'd like to see a new arena strictly for dueling putting you up at the alt and random plane selection ect for ranks, and unrank fun.
20 minutes per duel? Just saying your math seems off. I know I see you in there regularly so not questioning your truthfulness, just noticed that 20 minutes per seemed a bit off. Unless of course you win em all and stay airborn, then in that case, you need more of a challenge. :D
As for the F3 in the DA... yes, remove it. +1
-
20 minutes per duel? Just saying your math seems off. I know I see you in there regularly so not questioning your truthfulness, just noticed that 20 minutes per seemed a bit off. Unless of course you win em all and stay airborn, then in that case, you need more of a challenge. :D
As for the F3 in the DA... yes, remove it. +1
Do your math again :salute
20 min. duels 3 per hour that would equal 45 duels a month if you are using 15 hours :aok
You messed up after you divided and got 20 that is in duels per hour / 60 and you get 3 mins. per duel
-
Do your math again :salute
20 min. duels 3 per hour that would equal 45 duels a month if you are using 15 hours :aok
You messed up after you divided and got 20 that is in duels per hour / 60 and you get 3 mins. per duel
wow did I make a glaring error. I should have caught it. Thanks for pointing it out :lol 3 minutes sounds much more reasonable.
-
wow did I make a glaring error. I should have caught it. Thanks for pointing it out :lol 3 minutes sounds much more reasonable.
no worries mate :aok
-
Now I may be biased ,and some of what op wrote went over my head . I would like to see some type of system to make communication between duelers easier . I just flew for 24 minutes and finally auggered with a full ammo load in the MA . I know there has to be someone online in game right now that wants a fight too . If there was a system for easily meeting I could be sparring rather then typing . :mad: