Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Perrine on September 13, 2010, 04:37:46 PM
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I'm thinking about buying this joystick.
Does this old joystick from Microsoft still work with Windows 7 + Aces High 2?
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I have this stick but without the force feedback.
It works fine with the game. I run Windows XP Pro.
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I also use the MS FF pro. The second generation one with the USB connection. Windows 7 does not recognize the software but you can set your force feedback settings within the game. I also have the first generation MS FF that uses a game port, but its the same deal,,,,, works but the software is un-usable with Windows 7.
Other than that, this stick is great. If you do purchase and would like my FF settings and key mapping, PM me I will share.
<S>
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I too use an MSFF2..... i started with the MSFF ver1 way back in 2001 i used the old MSFF ver1 but it broke...... since then ive gone thru the 1st MSFF ver1, one MSFFver2 and im on my second MSFF2 but AKDogg found a electronics website that if you have any eoldering ability at all you can pretty much fix the stick as needed!
To be honest with you i wouldnt mess with version 1 with the game port specially on win7 get the MSFF2!
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To be honest with you i wouldnt mess with version 1 with the game port specially on win7 get the MSFF2!
But i heard the original had a digital optical tracking so you rarely have to calibrate.
However I'm not sure if force feedback 2 also had digital optical tracking
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But i heard the original had a digital optical tracking so you rarely have to calibrate.
However I'm not sure if force feedback 2 also had digital optical tracking
It does
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I also use the MS FF pro. The second generation one with the USB connection. Windows 7 does not recognize the software but you can set your force feedback settings within the game. I also have the first generation MS FF that uses a game port, but its the same deal,,,,, works but the software is un-usable with Windows 7.
Other than that, this stick is great. If you do purchase and would like my FF settings and key mapping, PM me I will share.
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When you say Windows does not recognize the software? Are you loading the original disk? Or do you mean that when you plug in the stick that W7 doesn't try to find the software? Go to ActiveWin Google it they have a download section for W7 drivers for the stick.
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Yea, I was unclear there.
The drivers are installed through Win7 but the software that comes with the stick windows7 does not recognize and therefore im not able to use the mapping and profiles that the software offered. A shame to, was easy to set up and maintain.
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It does
hmmI wonder why it's not advertised as a feature on FF2...
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I also have the first generation MS FF that uses a game port, but its the same deal,,,,, works but the software is un-usable with Windows 7.
I have no gameport in my laptop, but I heard there's a gameport to usb adapter.
Will the original MS FF + gameport-to-USB work on my Win7 laptop?
If not then there's the MS-FF-2 as an alternative.
Some say MS-FF-2 had digital-optical-tracking-camera (or whatever it's called) just like the original MS-FF, but I'm really not sure if MS-FF-2 came with it since Microsoft and Amazon did not advertise that feature.
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I have no gameport in my laptop, but I heard there's a gameport to usb adapter.
Will the original MS FF + gameport-to-USB work on my Win7 laptop?
If not then there's the MS-FF-2 as an alternative.
Some say MS-FF-2 had digital-optical-tracking-camera (or whatever it's called) just like the original MS-FF, but I'm really not sure if MS-FF-2 came with it since Microsoft and Amazon did not advertise that feature.
The MSFF2 used the same optical widget to read the X and Y positioning as the Sidewinder Precision PRO & 3D. (this was a small "wafer" that the handle slid around - I couldn't even begin to guess how it actually functioned, but it was very precise and the best feature of both sticks). Throttle and rudder positioning were determined by pots, and had significantly decreased precision over X and Y positioning.
The MS sticks while using a gameport were not standard analog gameport devices - ms overloaded the driver and communicated information digitally between the stick and the computer. A gameport to USB adapter WILL NOT WORK with them, unless it specifically states that it supports them. The exception to this is (possibly) the original 3D PRO, which could be switched to modes that emulated other era joystocks, but in so doing would "lose" the 8 way hat capability.
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Perrin,
To save you the trouble I have already gone down the gameport to USB converter road. There is a Descent player called Grendle who makes a custom converter for Gameport Sidewinders. He states that the FF feature is NOT supported. He says it is too much work to reverse engineer the commands (and not enough demand to make it worthwhile). So no Force Feedback with Gameport sticks anymore :cry
The optical sensors in the Sidewinder series essentially operate like a primitive camera. On the the earlier (Gameport) version the CCD sits still and the base of the stick moves two LEDs over its surface, as Ghastley has described. This gives aileron, elevator & rudder position at the same time. There was also a throttle LED which swiped across the chip in an arc as well, thus throttle was also optical.
I think an FF2 USB version is now the only practical solution.
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I'm on my first MSFFB2, love it. :aok
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Perrin,
To save you the trouble I have already gone down the gameport to USB converter road. There is a Descent player called Grendle who makes a custom converter for Gameport Sidewinders. He states that the FF feature is NOT supported. He says it is too much work to reverse engineer the commands (and not enough demand to make it worthwhile). So no Force Feedback with Gameport sticks anymore :cry
I can live without force feedback feature... but will it all its buttons, HAT, throttle and X/Y/Z axis work?
I kinda want the original because it's the heaviest joystick known to man, and I don't want the joystick to leave the table when I yank it hard :aok
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The latest version of Grendle's converter uses a Teensy board and is easy to make:
http://www.descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?t=15526&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
and this was his previous version which you could buy complete:-
http://web.archive.org/web/20060822220409/http://grendel.koolbear.com/3dpro.htm
They claim the 8-way hat and all buttons do work, but as I say, no Force Feedback.
I'm not sure how good it will be to use a Gameport FF stick with the FF feature just 'dead'. Because the electric motors will still be physically connected to the stick and you'll be winding them around with your inputs. Also because there are no springs and no active motors to keep the stick centred, you will have no 'neutral' position.
May I ask do you already have a Gameport Sidewinder? You do seem quite determined I must say, despite all the advice in this thread. Do you not have such a thing as BluTack where you live? Some players use that to secure their stick to their desk.
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May I ask do you already have a Gameport Sidewinder? You do seem quite determined I must say, despite all the advice in this thread. Do you not have such a thing as BluTack where you live? Some players use that to secure their stick to their desk.
For the past few days I've been eyeing on this unmolested stick and its got a bundled game that I really wanted to re-play.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120619096443
and here's where I'm really focused about the original MS FF (as seen on box)
Digital-Optical Technology: Meet the Challenges of any game - Microsoft's digital-optical technology provides pinpoint accuracy, no drift, and no wear and tear.
I can live without FF and auto-center position as long as I get the feature above.
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The no wear and tear part is definitely less than entirely accurate. What happened to all of mine is that eventually, the hat switch switches go, and at the same time, the "post" that is attached to the hat that pushes them wears - and the socket the post sits in wears, such that without some sort of surgery, eventually it's a goner. Each of mine lasted about a year before it started to get flakey, and then increasingly so over the next six months until (I believe) I couldn't look "left and back" any more. (It may have been right and back, but I don't think so...)
Of course, at the time, I was playing 15-20 hours or so a week, so a year of use was not insignificant. On the other hand, some guys do that in 2 days...
Without force effects programming, the FF sticks would autocenter with a "medium" force, so while I can't guarantee it for sure, I'd be shocked if it doesn't simply behave like a "normal" joystick in that regard when attached via the USB converter.
<S>
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I can live without force feedback feature... but will it all its buttons, HAT, throttle and X/Y/Z axis work?
I kinda want the original because it's the heaviest joystick known to man, and I don't want the joystick to leave the table when I yank it hard :aok
Actually, if that's what you want, you want the Logitech Wingman Force.
This...
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-963155-0403-WingMan-Force-Joystick/dp/B00000JDG3
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81HCD9GF7TL._SL500_AA300_.gif)
not this
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-963223-0403-Wingman-Force-3D/dp/B00004VUFH/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1284699009&sr=8-1
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VTRDTJ7YL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Behemoth described it nicely - with the forces all the way up it could take all your strength to pull out of a dive.
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Have to bear in mind that as with most products they are built to a strict price. It's true about the optical sensors but the joystick of course has lots of other moving parts.
One can keep a product going well past its expected lifespan if you're handy and resourceful but it's best to strike a balance.
Take potentiometers for example, the ones in the cheaper joysticks are so poo that I'm surprised they work for more than a few weeks at all. Given that the joysticks rely on them completely to work, they literally are still the cheapest ones a manufacturer can buy.
I built my own throttle and I also liked the idea of less moving parts, I investigated Hall effect sensors and optical sensors but ended up using Vishay industrial pots rated to 5,000,000 rotations. I've even got a few spares.
I wish you luck with your decisions Perrine, perhaps you'll let us know how it all works out and give us a review.
Regards, nrshida.