Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JimmyC on September 15, 2010, 05:18:27 PM
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is it
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/isthisneccesary.jpg)
cant get in
not really that many peeps
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/isthisneccesary.jpg)
we, as euros, just filling the gap so it dont get caustic later
caps are there because too many people in an arena make a caustic environment...US Prime time
well hello
what about now...
is it necessary...
feels like I`m being treated like a used Kleenex
is it necessary
<S> Jimmy
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If you pronounce Z as Zed then, yes. It is quite necessary. Quite.
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just go into blue..
problem?
it is the way it is. if you really need those extra 22 players.. just wait a few minutes.
blue was for a while about 2 hours ago, full.. and orange was open.. big deal.
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It's still small potatoes in the over all scheme of things
What's the numbers in us prime time?
My squaddies where in orange so wanted in
It is how it is till we kick up a fuss
We are being used and not getting full benefit of the game
Fair is fair
So come on .... Fair do's
And yes sunbat.. I speak English. And you?
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It's zeee not zed. Zeee
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Hitech was looking at an idea Luschu suggested that looked promising, but until then, YES it is necessary. The timing for when the arenas split are due to the time the the US starts signing on. If they do it earlier it would take longer to populate each arena enough to bump the other arena. If they do it later, the first arena population would be so high that it would take a long time before the population in the low numbered arena could start opening space in the closed arena.
The time they have it now populates the arenas quickest and more evenly.
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Why do people like to manufacture so many problems around here? Just tell your squad to get their big ol' bazookas into blue or else! If they say no then apparently they don't want to fly with you, so why do you want to fly with them?
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Why do people like to manufacture so many problems around here? Just tell your squad to get their big ol' bazookas into blue or else! If they say no then apparently they don't want to fly with you, so why do you want to fly with them?
Thread pwnt, thanks Mar <S>
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Why do people like to manufacture so many problems around here? Just tell your squad to get their big ol' bazookas into blue or else! If they say no then apparently they don't want to fly with you, so why do you want to fly with them?
I think you are kmissing the point.
It's not about getting into any specific arena or being able to fly with your squad.
It's about having to play with low numbers due to arena split.
Thread pwnt,
Only for those with a lack of reading comprehension.
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It's about having to play with low numbers due to arena split.
I don't think that applies to this particular rant at least; but honestly, the reason they have to play with low numbers is because they're trying to cram into an already overflowing arena instead of trying to build numbers in the other arena.
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I don't think that applies to this particular rant at least; but honestly, the reason they have to play with low numbers is because they're trying to cram into an already overflowing arena instead of trying to build numbers in the other arena.
You should actually take a look at the screenshots...
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it is the way it is. if you really need those extra 22 players.. just wait a few minutes.
94 vrs 116, am I missing something? :headscratch:
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94 vrs 116, am I missing something? :headscratch:
What they are saying is that if it was still only ONE arena instead of the split arenas they would have 200 people to fly with instead of two arenas with 100.
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94 or 116 vs 210 yes, you are missing something...there is a clue you can have.
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94 vrs 116, am I missing something? :headscratch:
:huh
this isn't an arithmetic question is it?
OP specifially complained about "not getting in" to the orange arena.. which was 116(orange) vs 94(blue).. didn't say "why are there 2 arenas with 200 people" which is a whole different discussion.
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94 or 116 vs 210 yes, you are missing something...there is a clue you can have.
:devil
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Whoops, yeah, that one sure went over my head. Too used to having split arenas I guess.
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It never takes me more than 5 minutes of trying to get in a full arena. It is not nearly the problem you make it out to be.
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is it
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/isthisneccesary.jpg)
cant get in
not really that many peeps
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/isthisneccesary.jpg)
we, as euros, just filling the gap so it dont get caustic later
caps are there because too many people in an arena make a caustic environment...US Prime time
well hello
what about now...
is it necessary...
feels like I`m being treated like a used Kleenex
is it necessary
<S> Jimmy
I agree. Based on the pictures, the O-Club is missing a bar. I mean, look at those pictures...they are just sitting around all bored! Every O-Club had a bar in WWII! I think HTC needs to add a bar, with a nice looking bartender, to the lobby. And how about a Poker Table? Play Poker for Perks! If there was a bar that served some good brewskis, and some entertainment, then people would stop complaining about having to wait on CAPS for 3 minutes.
Problem solved. :aok :lol
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just go into blue..
problem?
it is the way it is. if you really need those extra 22 players.. just wait a few minutes.
blue was for a while about 2 hours ago, full.. and orange was open.. big deal.
Its a big deal if the reason you play this game
is to socialize online with friends you've made
in the game....not to mention being able to fly
with your squaddies.
Have a little sympathy for the guy. He IS being
treated like luggage.
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It never takes me more than 5 minutes of trying to get in a full arena.
I suppose you never play at euro primetime
It is not nearly the problem you make it out to be.
It's a massive problem to us.
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Whoops, yeah, that one sure went over my head. Too used to having split arenas I guess.
I am use to it too. The difference between the two arena's is relatively nothing, but the difference of having just one instead of two during that same time is a quite different. I know that I log right back off when I see two arena's with 94/116.
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I suppose you never play at euro primetime
It's a massive problem to us.
Those are the times i play most actually. Around 11am - 1pm my time which is PST.
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Those are the times i play most actually. Around 11am - 1pm my time which is PST.
So when caps are 190/100, 20/150, it doesn't take you more than 5 minutes to get into the full arena? Amazing considering it usually takes 1-2 hours to get numbers about equal ;)
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Its a big deal if the reason you play this game
is to socialize online with friends you've made
in the game....not to mention being able to fly
with your squaddies.
Have a little sympathy for the guy. He IS being
treated like luggage.
i completely understand the complaint that there really is no reason to split 200 people up in the "off" hours..
i completely understand why people want to fly in the 105 arena when theres only 10 or 20 in the other..
but when theres 116 in one, and 94 in the other, I do not understand. that's all I'm saying.
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When I login to arena caps, I look and see how far the split is. I notice normally once it's at about 85% occupancy of the other arena, they both open up (2-5 minute wait usually). Not a huge deal, and if the arenas are that evenly split, it's normally a crapshoot to find out which arena has more even numbers and fight and better map.
Now, when I login at 8AM-10AM PST, this is what I see... Orange has 140 players, Blue has 20 players, both arenas are open. I go into Orange due to the more numbers = better fight philosophy and without doubt there is a HUGE misbalance of players somewhere in the arena. Normally 2 sides will have 20-30 players, and then one side will be 60-80 players rolling the map and no decent fights going on anywhere. Normally ENY sucks if you're unlucky enough to be on the side stacked against, and its frustrating to even find a fight, let alone a good one.
So I go to Blue. Yeah there's only 20 players, but normally there's better fights going on, and within 2 to 3 hours, you end up with a pretty populated arena with usually ballanced sides that ends up being a better fight. Then #'s drop, you get bored, and go back into Orange and to a hugely unbalanced map and roster.
As to flying with the squads, it's simple, fly blue for squad events. 2 of the last 3 squads I've flown with fly almost strictly blue to avoid arena cap problems unless it's early in the morning.
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Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead...........
FYI
:D
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When I login to arena caps, I look and see how far the split is. I notice normally once it's at about 85% occupancy of the other arena, they both open up (2-5 minute wait usually). Not a huge deal, and if the arenas are that evenly split, it's normally a crapshoot to find out which arena has more even numbers and fight and better map.
Now, when I login at 8AM-10AM PST, this is what I see... Orange has 140 players, Blue has 20 players, both arenas are open. I go into Orange due to the more numbers = better fight philosophy and without doubt there is a HUGE misbalance of players somewhere in the arena. Normally 2 sides will have 20-30 players, and then one side will be 60-80 players rolling the map and no decent fights going on anywhere. Normally ENY sucks if you're unlucky enough to be on the side stacked against, and its frustrating to even find a fight, let alone a good one.
So I go to Blue. Yeah there's only 20 players, but normally there's better fights going on, and within 2 to 3 hours, you end up with a pretty populated arena with usually ballanced sides that ends up being a better fight. Then #'s drop, you get bored, and go back into Orange and to a hugely unbalanced map and roster.
As to flying with the squads, it's simple, fly blue for squad events. 2 of the last 3 squads I've flown with fly almost strictly blue to avoid arena cap problems unless it's early in the morning.
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When I login to arena caps, I look and see how far the split is. I notice normally once it's at about 85% occupancy of the other arena, they both open up (2-5 minute wait usually). Not a huge deal, and if the arenas are that evenly split, it's normally a crapshoot to find out which arena has more even numbers and fight and better map.
Now, when I login at 8AM-10AM PST, this is what I see... Orange has 140 players, Blue has 20 players, both arenas are open. I go into Orange due to the more numbers = better fight philosophy and without doubt there is a HUGE misbalance of players somewhere in the arena. Normally 2 sides will have 20-30 players, and then one side will be 60-80 players rolling the map and no decent fights going on anywhere. Normally ENY sucks if you're unlucky enough to be on the side stacked against, and its frustrating to even find a fight, let alone a good one.
So I go to Blue. Yeah there's only 20 players, but normally there's better fights going on, and within 2 to 3 hours, you end up with a pretty populated arena with usually ballanced sides that ends up being a better fight. Then #'s drop, you get bored, and go back into Orange and to a hugely unbalanced map and roster.
As to flying with the squads, it's simple, fly blue for squad events. 2 of the last 3 squads I've flown with fly almost strictly blue to avoid arena cap problems unless it's early in the morning.
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Why do people like to manufacture so many problems around here? Just tell your squad to get their big ol' bazookas into blue or else! If they say no then apparently they don't want to fly with you, so why do you want to fly with them?
it's human nature.
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The arena cap is obviously over modeled.
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:lol
The arena cap is obviously over modeled.
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its easy bro, just cancel your subscription.
the system is flawed but it is the only one there is.
can we have a poop colored arena please :neener:
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its easy bro, just cancel your subscription.
the system is flawed but it is the only one there is.
can we have a poop colored arena please :neener:
Your avatar..is..disturbing....
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The arena cap is obviously over modeled.
:aok
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TBH Jimmy if this was from last night orange had the boring bellybutton big map. After an hour or so of being bored to tears after the update.
Swapped to Blue where the pizza ish map was kicking off and I had one run of intense action. The main problem for Euro guys is at 18:00 GMT when there are no people in blue and a big bellybutton map in orange. At least you had an option to go into blue and tell your squaddies that it is kicking off and if they cant find a fight they better swap quick!
Plus you might want to kill some of those programs running in the background and if your using wireless to fly it will be far more reliable and lag free with a wired connection.
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My squad mates told me to change to blue, I waited and waited and they all stayed in orange :old:
I still have not found out why they told me to change? :old:
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is it
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/isthisneccesary.jpg)
cant get in
not really that many peeps
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/isthisneccesary.jpg)
we, as euros, just filling the gap so it dont get caustic later
caps are there because too many people in an arena make a caustic environment...US Prime time
well hello
what about now...
is it necessary...
feels like I`m being treated like a used Kleenex
is it necessary
<S> Jimmy
Oh... and this whole time I thought you were complaining about having to share a lobby with 800nate :lol
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The arena cap is obviously over modeled.
Nuh uh! The History Channel says it's right.
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how did you get the lobby to look like that??
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ok.... I had just come back from the pub
and four pints under my skin
had wanted to fly the new mossies with my squaddies
was a slight rant
I apologise
BUT...
we still seem to have to play in arenas of 100
what numbers do you get?
just seems the set up is bias against us euros and a bit annoying
Bruv, you said orange was dull cos it was a big bellybutton map with out the necessary numbers to make it fun...point in case
(not on wireless btw, and I have no lag issues but ty)
the system is flawed but by highlighting the fact things might change
Zee problem with Zee system is its flawed Ja !
& Jay thats the AH Speakeasy.....liquor in the front, poker in the rear :D
<S> Jimmy
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As has been stated many times, the arena cap's go live at the most opportune time to prepare for the US Primetime "rush".
If your favorite restaurant closed the dining room between 4 and 5 pm to prepare the dining room for the evening rush, and you were served at the bar because your "lunch" break was at 4:00 would you come into the restaurant and loudly proclaim you are being treated like a used kleenex because you weren't allowed to sit in the dining room?
Most people wouldn't expect a business to cater to one person's desires over that of the bulk of the clientele. Most realize that the world is a messy, imperfect place and that nothing is ever likely to be everything to everyone, and that some times, circumstances put you on the short end of the stick, and it's not a deliberate slight.
<S>
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Arena CAP's are great for business as HTC has stated many times already and that's all that matters. :aok
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Jimmy C.....you have a Windows Update waiting to be installed :devil
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WOW! look at those ping time's! eek,
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why not trying to log into the Blue arena and fill it up then we would not be having this prob ? why do you have to go into Orange ? be smart and fill Blue then caps will raise on Orange i dont get why every1 is complaining about this i play primetime and have never had a prob getting in :salute
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I think you are kmissing the point.
It's not about getting into any specific arena or being able to fly with your squad.
It's about having to play with low numbers due to arena split.
Only for those with a lack of reading comprehension.
That will never change Lusche. They purposely miss the point hoping for a cookie from HT :rofl. It is a bad idea to split the arenas but until it is their idea to put them back together, you will get flamed for bringing it up. Limiting the size of the cesspool is hardly a reason. If anything, they owe an apology to their customers for referring to them as that. Good luck lol.
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If your favorite restaurant closed the dining room between 4 and 5 pm to prepare the dining room for the evening rush, and you were served at the bar because your "lunch" break was at 4:00 would you come into the restaurant and loudly proclaim you are being treated like a used kleenex because you weren't allowed to sit in the dining room?
I think the analogy is closer to this:
a restaurant with a rep for an excellent menu has 2 evening sittings. in the first sitting, the chefs try to serve the same menu, but only use indredients they have an excess of. this means the menu is smaller and the dishes dont taste anywhere as good as the dishes served in the later sitting because there are key ingredients missing from them. it does however mean that they can serve the full menu in the 2nd sitting.
customers who can only eat at the first sitting are getting a worse meal than those who can eat later, despite the fact that the restaurant is capable of serving great dishes so are understandably not that happy with their meal or the restaurant. the customers who eat at the later sitting hear the complaints of the others and say "rubbish! my meal was great! theres no problem with this restaurant."
early customers complain to the the chef that their meal isnt as good as the later sitting, the chef says "well if the early sitting was fully booked, we could order more ingredients and eveyone would get a great meal." the early customers reply "well how do you expect to fill the early sitting when the food isnt as good as the later sitting?"
edit: I still back multiple arenas, with fixed map-dependent caps. let us chose where to fly.
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You can't get in because you really don't want to. Lot of room to play.
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You have to remember which state HTC is located. Should sum up some of the confusion.
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Z e d
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Arena CAP's are great for business as HTC has stated many times already and that's all that matters. :aok
You're right. They should just bow to the whims of every single player's wishes, and not care about the impact that has on their income stream. They will be a lot more successful that way. They shouldn't care about making money or keeping their business going in the worst economy since the great depression. They should sacrifice the measured gains that they obviously have seen from arena caps, and totally get rid of them to make a very small minority of the players happy. Makes total sense. (Think about it...if arena caps were driving people away, they would have nixed them a long time ago.)
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... the worst economy since the great depression.
Hardly..
Do you remember the 10%+ unemployment rates, 18% mortgage rates, 20% prime rates and the 14% inflation rates in the early 80's?
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It doesn't occur to anybody that things that did work in the past maybe just do not work the same way any more when the conditions have changed?
When the current system of caps were introduced, we had a lot more players logged in at any given time. Current numbers on the login screen are about the lowest I have ever seen in playing AH for 5 years now. (Maybe it's still the same at US prime time) This week they are about half the numbers I once was used to see on the clipboard - when once the lowest numbers were about 100 players, it's now down to like 56, in the evening just before arena caps kick in 120 instead of ~200.
But still, the LW arena is split at 19:00 euro time, and we barely can get over 100 players in an arena. Right now it's 22:30 here, and we have 119 and 104 players in LWO and LWB.
This is a shadow of the MMO game I once signed up to. We still could have 200+ in the arena, which indeed is much more fun, but still we are split.
So with considerable lesser overall numbers, the early caps are much more frustrating for us euro time players than ever before. The (negative) impact of caps is greater than it used to be.
Maybe at US prime time the number still justify the split at that time, but us "very small minority" (which ain't that small) are paying a big price for that.
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It doesn't occur to anybody that things that did work in the past maybe just do not work the same way any more when the conditions have changed?
When the current system of caps were introduced, we had a lot more players logged in at any given time. Current numbers on the login screen are about the lowest I have ever seen in playing AH for 5 years now. (Maybe it's still the same at US prime time) This week they are about half the numbers I once was used to see on the clipboard - when once the lowest numbers were about 100 players, it's now down to like 56, in the evening just before arena caps kick in 120 instead of ~200.
But still, the LW arena is split at 19:00 euro time, and we barely can get over 100 players in an arena. Right now it's 22:30 here, and we have 119 and 104 players in LWO and LWB.
This is a shadow of the MMO game I once signed up to. We still could have 200+ in the arena, which indeed is much more fun, but still we are split.
So with considerable lesser overall numbers, the early caps are much more frustrating for us euro time players than ever before. The (negative) impact of caps is greater than it used to be.
Maybe at US prime time the number still justify the split at that time, but us "very small minority" (which ain't that small) are paying a big price for that.
Weren't you one of the guys defending the arena splits?
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I suppose you never play at euro primetime
It's a massive problem to us.
West coast eats it in the !@#s too, I feel sorry for you Euro guys and anyone else that has to wait more than 30-minutes to get into the arena you want to (if it was only 3-minutes, I'd be happy. sometimes you're lucky and the wait is 3-minutes, but just as often I can end up waiting over 30-minutes for the other arena to populate enough or, more common in my time zone, the arenas start to rapidly depopulate to below the cap due to the east-coasters going to bed).
Try getting into the arena you want to get into with your squadmates right on the cusp of prime time (in my case, after commuting home from work three hours after 75% of this country beats you to it). I've just about given up trying to play the game before 8-9pm my time (11pm-12am on the east coast) if there is a cap discrepancy greater than 20 players.
I've never advocated getting rid of an arena balancing system, it keeps the second arena fat and healthy, but there has to be a better way for a customer to come home after work and be able to log into the same arena as the rest of your squadies and buds... I'd love a que, doesnt have to let me know where I'm at or about how long until I probabley will get in. Still some frustration to be had at no instant-access, but delayed-promised-access beats delayed-stonewalled-access anyday, especially since as it is after stepping away to wait for the caps to settle, you can often return to find no difference/change or that both servers lowered caps (but with still no access) due to even server depopulation across the board. I don't mind waiting 20 minutes every day as long as I know I'll be in roughly around that time after waiting my turn. My favorite weekday to play is Tuesday without a doubt, the fights are big, the arena popular, and no caps.
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Weren't you one of the guys defending the arena splits?
No, I was not.
Actually I kinda clashed with HiTech over it. And I never hid my aversion against them. I came somewhat to terms with them, as long as the numbers weren't that bad as they are now.
What I did was explaining defending the technical way the caps were implemented (both arena's caps depending on each other), mostly vs players with proposals that had not been thought through very well.
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I have to agree with Lusche (and the other Euros')...this one particular arena caps time needs to be extended by a minimum of (IMO) 1hour...2 if possible....this will allow the Euro guys the same (to a degree..still a lot less people and better fights :devil) fights and map movement as in American prime time.
One of the problems here is some of you say just wait 5 mins it will change...at the time in question this does not happen..there is just not the flow of players..so your 5 mins during your caps time is more like 30mins minimum at this time. It has taken 1hr before.. I have and do up in the lower populated arena during this time...and usually spend 30 mins (Darbar chasing)looking to find something to engage but find little and/or nothing willing...and spend the rest of the time rolling an osti/t34/bomber to a town to roll around uncontested.
Extending this time will see it kick in at a time where there is more player login thus more flow and quicker change times..sure this doesn't allow for the other complaints of not being able to get in with squaddies but that is a different issue to the one one lucshe and the other Euro guys are talking about...We would love nothing better than to have caps enforced when the numbers are up near 150 - 200 in both arenas...
edit (IMO)
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No, I was not.
Actually I kinda clashed with HiTech over it. And I never hid my aversion against them. I came somewhat to terms with them, as long as the numbers weren't that bad as they are now.
What I did was explaining defending the technical way the caps were implemented (both arena's caps depending on each other), mostly vs players with proposals that had not been thought through very well.
So, I do agree with you. I don;t like the limits for my own reasons but what would you propose? Other than removing them, I don;t see an easy fix. If you let it go up to 200 before they kick in the people having to log in to the other arena will be complaining about a 200 to 10 ratio. I don;t see how it can be improved. Ideas?
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So, I do agree with you. I don;t like the limits for my own reasons but what would you propose? Other than removing them, I don;t see an easy fix. If you let it go up to 200 before they kick in the people having to log in to the other arena will be complaining about a 200 to 10 ratio. I don;t see how it can be improved. Ideas?
For example http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,292342.0.html , because I agree that simply moving the caps 1-2 hours later won't work at all.
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For example http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,292342.0.html , because I agree that simply moving the caps 1-2 hours later won't work at all.
I think we both know that that is not going to happen. A lot of effort on HTs site and a lot of opportunity for problems. What happens if I was ready to win the war in the other arena? lol
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I think we both know that that is not going to happen. A lot of effort on HTs site and a lot of opportunity for problems. What happens if I was ready to win the war in the other arena? lol
It can be won next day.
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I don't expect HTC will change any of this as the Euro's keep complaining and he keeps ignoring (How does that sand taste?), good luck with that business plan when Storm of War eventually gets released and it includes a 64 player online element. (Hmmm, whats the differenciator of that from AH I wonder at Shafto Rama time?) :devil
Expect a Lock on this thread soon theres too much discention!
VoX.
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I don't expect HTC will change any of this as the Euro's keep complaining and he keeps ignoring (How does that sand taste?), good luck with that business plan when Storm of War eventually gets released and it includes a 64 player online element. (Hmmm, whats the differenciator of that from AH I wonder at Shafto Rama time?) :devil
Of course we all gonna quit in favor of a 64-player max game, because we are upset about a 100 player cap here ... :headscratch: :lol
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I think the analogy is closer to this:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,296813.msg3789935.html#msg3789935
edit: I still back multiple arenas, with fixed map-dependent caps. let us chose where to fly.
I fail to perceive a difference in the analogy. In either scenario the hypothetical business has had to make a decision that best supports it's ability to provide the best experience at the busiest of times by implementing a solution that at other times is not as popular. And in our hypothetical restaurants, we both know what the answer would be - a number of people who might desire to eat there at the off-peak times if they could get the same experience as is available at the peak time would choose to eat elsewhere. I'm sure that if (when) that happens here HTC is no more happy than the hypothetical restaurant owner. But both have a solution that suits the largest number of people.
I don't honestly understand how the fixed map-dependent caps would be better. In fact, it might often be significantly worse - if either arena has a cap of half of the daily average, then one arena might go all night on a slow night with 50 players in it total. On another night there might be NO slots available in either one.
As it is now, both reach "critical mass" in the least amount of time possible, and there's always room for another player.
I'm not arguing in favor of them by the way. I'm arguing against the 9000th whine I've read about the same issue.
<S>
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if either arena has a cap of half of the daily average
no dynamic caps of any kind - fixed caps at whatever is appropriate for each map. :aok
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Sorry about the multiple posts, screen locked up, and I hit the button a couple more times. :(
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Of course we all gonna quit in favor of a 64-player max game, because we are upset about a 100 player cap here ... :headscratch: :lol
ok, keep it real. Express your opinion without worrying about that cookie :lol Your complain is that you can only log in into an arena with 20 or so guys. I don;t think you were complaining about 100. So, several rooms with 64 may be better than one room with 20 guys waiting to get into the other arena, right?
That been said, I probably have 1000 other reasons to stay here.
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ok, keep it real. Express your opinion without worrying about that cookie :lol Your complain is that you can only log in into an arena with 20 or so guys. I don;t think you were complaining about 100.
Actually I am. ;) While 100 is not as horrible as 20, it's still much less fun and gives much less gameplay opportunities than 200.
200 players total being split into two arenas just sucks.
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Actually I am. ;) While 100 is not as horrible as 20, it's still much less fun and gives much less gameplay opportunities than 200.
200 players total being split into two arenas just sucks.
yeah, but that depends on the game setup. The AvA can be fun with just 10 guys, but the MA can't. So, unless we know how that game is set up, we cant tell if 64 is a lot or not enough.
You are welcome Jagger :lol
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I noticed this thread has no fancy graph yet... :D
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1807/arenanumbers.jpg)
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quite.
large map LWO fixed cap of say 750, small map LWB fixed cap say 450. everyone can chose where they want to fly. :aok
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quite.
large map LWO fixed cap of say 750, small map LWB fixed cap say 450. everyone can chose where they want to fly. :aok
Why don't you just say "single arena, no cap"? Because that's what your proposal amounts to. ;)
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Why don't you just say "single arena, no cap"? Because that's what your proposal amounts to. ;)
Whats wrong with that?
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Whats wrong with that?
Did I say that?
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no, its plainly completely different from a single arena. its 2 arenas.
it gives players a choice of 2 different maps to play on.
most players prefer to play in a well-populated arena, they can chose to do this.
some players prefer to play in a less-populated arena, they can chose to do this.
edit: if the overall player numbers ever start to go up again, it also allows room for expansion so the overcrowding problems associated with the original single LW arena dont happen. there were previously too many players for just one arena at some point, hence the split.
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That's what we want
An arena with 200 in not 2 arenas with 100 on each
It seems only fair
The game and maps are more fun with more peeps
Fair do's guvnor
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no, its plainly completely different from a single arena. its 2 arenas.
Yes, but effectively it will be mainly a one-arena thing (see the numbers at no-cap time, not even 10% are being found on the smaller map), almost everyone will go to the arena were the numbers are. And 750 cap amounts to no cap at all.
So we we actually would have the old huge main back in all but name.
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Yes, but effectively it will be mainly a one-arena thing (see the numbers at no-cap time, not even 10% are being found on the smaller map), almost everyone will go to the arena were the numbers are. And 750 cap amounts to no cap at all.
So we we actually would have the old huge main back in all but name.
But if the customers choose to do that, they will be where they want to be. What is wrong with that?
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But if the customers choose to do that, they will be where they want to be. What is wrong with that?
Not really. A few customers choose they want to be in a very large arena, which leaves the other arena even smaller. That will cause a few more to leave, and then a few more, until the thing is unplayable and everyone migrates. It doesn't necessarily mean the customers chose for that to happen. Having said that, ONE GIANT ARENA FTW! :banana:
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yes, but importantly it allows those 10% of players to play in a less-populated arena, if they chose to do so. I guarantee there will be players in both arenas, even now when the caps are at 400 and there are only 150 in LWO there are players who prefer to play in LWB.
2 arenas also allows a large number of players to be accommodated without detriment to gameplay (ie. the original reason for the split.) hopefully the player numbers will recover to the same level as the pre-split at some point. :pray
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But if the customers choose to do that, they will be where they want to be. What is wrong with that?
Did I say it's wrong? ;)
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do you think its wrong?
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do you think its wrong?
Let's say: I personally would love having Titanic Tuesday every day :)
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Not really. A few customers choose they want to be in a very large arena, which leaves the other arena even smaller. That will cause a few more to leave, and then a few more, until the thing is unplayable and everyone migrates. It doesn't necessarily mean the customers chose for that to happen. Having said that, ONE GIANT ARENA FTW! :banana:
Kind of sounds like a few ends up being every one? I don;t think a few people will have that effect. Then again, it depends on your definition of a few lol
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it gives players a choice of 2 different maps to play on.
Actually, it doesn't, unless one is a pure furballer, in which case they have the entire
dueling arena to play in as they're so enamored of only doing 1 V 1 ACM stuff.
When I try to log into an arena with 101 guys in it, or one with 7 guys in it, which
do you think I'm gonna want to choose?
The only guys in here professing happiness with the current arena cap limits are HTC rumpswabs
who bow in obeissence to anything HTC or its workers do, expounding the arena cap's virtues and
"necessity" ad infinitum.
There's absolutely no reason to have caps when such sophmoric crap maps such as Titanic Tuesday and
the Pizza mess are being utilized. Give us some maps that'd "work" with 10 or 20 guys in it and the CAP problem
as perceived by a HUGE number of us, will cease to exist.
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Actually, it doesn't etc ...
actually it does, unless one of the arenas has hit the fixed cap (possible at busy weekends maybe). but you wouldnt want to fly in there anyway because there would be too many players for that map.
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If I don't login before the caps, I wait 2-3 hours before I do because Orange is overfull and Blue has 10 guys within it.
It isn't the end of the world, this is a game and I have plenty of stuff I can do in that 2-3 hour time frame.
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If I don't login before the caps, I wait 2-3 hours before I do because Orange is overfull and Blue has 10 guys within it.
It isn't the end of the world, this is a game and I have plenty of stuff I can do in that 2-3 hour time frame.
What cracks me up, is seeing post after post of people saying this same thing...."I wait to login to orange because there are more people." If you all just login to the lower arena, there soon WOULD be more people. And, in any case MORE does not equate to BETTER.
I habitually log into the smaller arena because I can generally find 1 or 2 vs me's without issue, and don't see hordes. I've jumped into arenas with 15 people in them during off hours and had the best times, much better than the measle fest of the other, more popular arena. But, then again, I like having fair fights.
Seems very lazy to complain about arena caps when they are doing exactly what they are supposed to. :salute
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but you wouldnt want to fly in there anyway because there would be too many players for that map.
... and what, pray tell, might be "too many players" on a map that has 300 fields ?
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Kind of sounds like a few ends up being every one? I don;t think a few people will have that effect. Then again, it depends on your definition of a few lol
It's a domino effect.
For simplicity sake, lets take this example: There are 150 players in blue when suddenly, orange uncaps itself.
Group 1: 20% of players in blue will always go to orange no matter what
Group 2: 20% of players will stay in blue as long as there are >130 players
Group 3: 20% of players will stay in blue as long as there are >100 players
Group 4: 30% will only leave if there are less than 75 players
Group 5: 10% are afk/toolshedding/whatever and will stay indefinitely
So after Group 1 leaves you are left with 120 players.
Well now Group 2 is going to leave because this is <130.
Now you are sitting at 90 players. Well, Group 3 is going to leave now because you are less than 100.
Now you have 70 players. Group 4 is going to leave now.
So now you are left with 15.
Is it group 2's fault that group 1 bolted for the door? Is it group 3's fault group 2 bolted? Group 4, the most accepting to play in a small arena has had enough when the others bolt. Is it their fault? Domino effect my friends.
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... and what, pray tell, might be "too many players" on a map that has 300 fields ?
consesus seems to be something in the range 600-750 for the very largest maps we have.
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If I don't login before the caps, I wait 2-3 hours before I do because Orange is overfull and Blue has 10 guys within it.
It isn't the end of the world, this is a game and I have plenty of stuff I can do in that 2-3 hour time frame.
"rubbish! my meal was great! theres no problem with this restaurant."
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Seems very lazy to complain about arena caps when they are doing exactly what they are supposed to.
I'm not complaining, I just know it is a good excuse to actually get something done offline.
I'm spending less and less time in AH and it isn't because I'm not happy with the game. I just have too much going on in my personal life, you know, the world outside where the sky is blue.
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consesus seems to be something in the range 600-750 for the very largest maps we have.
I'm not sure if there ever was a consensus, at least not among the players ;)
I can only say what it is for myself, in my own very subjective opinion:
While there can be very good fights with very few people, and sometimes an amazing lack of action with many players in an arena, less player usually means less options and less combat intensity. For a large map in the late war main I would personally rate
50 or less: OMFG!
~100: boring
~150: that's were the fun begins
~250: seems to be "golden". On a balanced map like Compello I can chose from many options what I want to do next
more than 300: The arena doesn't really benefit from more players, depending on map layout I would rate 400+ as being "crowded"
For a small map, I would rate 150 as "golden", with overcrowding beginning maybe beyond 200-250
Again: It's my personal view on this :)
And because I like graphs so much, today's numbers: :D
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8308/arenanumbersfriday.jpg)
Maybe can illustrate to some extend why some of us euro players do not have kind feelings about the current caps implementation :P
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The graph dont lie
would be interesting to see how fast blue would get populated if caps kicked in at 22.00
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The graph dont lie
would be interesting to see how fast blue would get populated if caps kicked in at 22.00
Kicking the caps in ~2-3 hours later than they do currently would be a best of both worlds (worlds being U.S. and Europe) solution.
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I have a simple solution. Everyone switch to AvA. There's never caps, it's way more taxing on your SA, and there's only 2 teams so that solves the problem of getting ganged as well.
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I have a simple solution. Everyone switch to AvA. There's never caps,
Because they are not necessary with only a handful players. If the AvA were as popular as the late war main is now, you would see CAPS there too- You can't outrun CAPS ;)
and there's only 2 teams so that solves the problem of getting ganged as well.
lolz! (translation: "How does that prevent ganging?")
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I have a simple solution. Everyone switch to AvA. There's never caps, it's way more taxing on your SA, and there's only 2 teams so that solves the problem of getting ganged as well.
The risk of getting ganged is part of the beauty of AH. That's why there is an element of strategy.
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Some folks have nothing to do if the internet goes down.
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From what I can see I don't think there's as many people playing in prime time as there was before the arena split regardless of what HT/Skuzzy say. You can see it in the BBs too. They are much slower than they used to be.
As far as the arenas being "unhealthy" I don't see any big change there either. There's just as much dweeb play, whack-a-mole, hoarding, HOing and unhealthy 200/PM banter as there ever was.
The caps don't really bother me at all, I usually just go to the open arena but all the reasoning for splitting the arenas I just don't see. Personally I had more fun when everyone was together.
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But if the customers choose to do that, they will be where they want to be. What is wrong with that?
Dedalos, aren't you one of us from that "other sim"? I watched it go from the premier flight sim to a third rate has been (excluding possibly the special events which is about all that seems to be keeping it alive), and one of the biggest reasons is that they bent over backwards to give the players what they said they wanted.
But what the players say they want is often the surest path to self destruction.
There were other issues too, but the Allied/Axis format of the main arena nailed the coffin shut - and that was something that the very vocal majority demanded.
Again, what the players say they want is often the surest path to self destruction.
Hitech has said over and over that they can see that beyond a certain number of players, the sim is adversely affected by changes in gameplay. They have the data, we don't. And while this is our playground, they live here. PTL that they both care about the long term future of the sim and are very smart about it.
<S>
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so the euros pay the price for the good of the masses
fair do`s is what we are asking
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lolz! (translation: "How does that prevent ganging?")
Only 2 teams, you don't have to worry about both Knights and Rooks overrunning you. Only have to worry about all the noobs switching to one side and hording. :P
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what about those of us in kazakhstan we are definitely gettin the shaft on this whole caps thing :noid
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Of course we all gonna quit in favor of a 64-player max game, because we are upset about a 100 player cap here ...
Lets do some maths: -
100 Player limit in Aces High = 33 players on each side (3 Countries)
33 players defending two fronts = 16 players on a front
16 player front = The Fiasco that we currently have.
64 player game = 32 player sides with AI
32 player side = 32 player front +AI
32 player front +AI = Alot more realistic and alot less expensive than currently paying for AH during Euro times
Why won't anyone at HTC listen to the numerous calls for change or at the very least login during Euro times and look at the empty fronts?
VoX.
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its actually worse than that, of the 16 about 4 will be afk/in tower and another 4 in GVs or guns. leaving 8 aircraft on each front ...
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Of course we all gonna quit in favor of a 64-player max game, because we are upset about a 100 player cap here ... :headscratch: :lol
Lusche,
The CAP, set at 100 disallows entry into that arena. So, the first guy into the second one is actually
playing alone. The next guy makes it a 2 person game, etc, etc.. So a 64 person multiplayer
really would have the ability to compete with Aces High at various times of the day/evening
depending upon one's time zone.
When the Cactus Air Force was still operational, we'd have formal missions worked up each week.
They'd be distributed to all pilots in the squadron via email in HTML format. They'd be the old
Situation, Mission, Execution, Administration and Logistics type; the 5 paragraph order, complete
with pictures, diagrams, etc..These would be in pilots hands by Tuesday evening, and all pilots
were to report to the arena at 830PM for a 9PM mission.
The C.O. would usually arrive about 8PM and assess the operational / strategic situation and
figure a starting field for the mission or modify it according to the situation.
At 830, it began..."I can't get into the arena". First from one pilot, then another...then another.
These fools who pipe in with either no text (the stupid emoticons) or advise you or I to "go to
the other arena" are what I call HTC's Apologists, simply lack the intellect to properly perceive
what the problem is, or are just trolling for a hotheaded response.
We weren't the only squadron which worked up ops prior to Squad Night, either. Even squadrons
whose COs winged it and just set things up "on the fly" on their squad night would run into the
same problem with the arena CAP.
I've seen it posted in here that HTC doesn't / didn't need squadrons. That they don't intend
on relying on the income of the older guys. ie: the ones that have been around for years.
Their financial model doesn't require that; just a steady stream of new guys plunking down their
fifteen bucks a month, replacing the dienfranchised ones.
And that's exactly what I've seen over the years. Those squadrons are gone or full of "new"
guys. More old timers left than I would expect over the course of a few years.
Some of the older guys still fly their squadron "Colors" on the roster, but those squadrons
are names only and those pilots will be the first to tell you that it just ain't the same.
And of course, it isn't supposed to be the same, everything changes. But the changes implemented
which limited the number of guys on a map put the final nail in the coffin for many of the old
squadrons and/or many of their pilots.
I'm hopin' a lot of the "5 Star" plutonium bashers hop in here and start sniping. Each stupid emoticon
they post up gets 'em another "star"; one more step towards being on the HTC buddy list I call "The Apolgists";
you may just call 'em 'rumpswabs".
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2 Arena's is Excellent Buisness for HTC. :aok
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Lusche,
The CAP, set at 100 disallows entry into that arena. So, the first guy into the second one is actually
playing alone. The next guy makes it a 2 person game, etc, etc.. So a 64 person multiplayer
really would have the ability to compete with Aces High at various times of the day/evening
depending upon one's time zone.
....snip to save space.....
Having "Limited" 64 player arenas are not going to help, as Lusche said why leave a 100 capped arena to go to a 64 capped arena? Thats what it amounts to.
I was flying Saturday and called it quits around 7 eastern to watch a Bruins game. For the 6 hours I was on it was dead. And the funny thing was it was capped at 400, no restrictions. The 200 some odd people spent most of the time trying to avoid a fight. I made a few buff runs to drum up some action and as soon as people figured out we were there to fight, not capture they disappeared. A group of Rooks were hitting a V base and were calling for air support. So I flew over there to help out. The VH was down and the 8 to 10 guys that were vulching to enemy on upping were just sitting in their hiding spot waiting for the VHs to pop again. They weren't interested in capture either, they just wanted some air cover so they could vulch. The fights sucked because the enemy planes only wanted to bomb GVs, not fight.
At this point, it's the players that are killing the game, not the CAPS, or the ENY. It's kinda hard to play a combat game if no one is willing to do some combat.
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this point, it's the players that are killing the game, not the CAPS, or the ENY.
I disagree. The players are not fighting any more or less than 2-3 years ago. Some nights are good, some nights are bad. Sometimes this depends mostly on what time you are logged on (luck factor) and how the bases and player numbers between countries are distributed.
When I was flying at US prime (very late at night), I had mostly a good time. When there was not enough red to be found, I hopped to another country.
The sole reason I canceled my account are the CAPS.
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At this point, it's the players that are killing the game, not the CAPS, or the ENY. It's kinda hard to play a combat game if no one is willing to do some combat without vastly superior numerical advantage or base ack nearby to run to.
Fixed
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Having "Limited" 64 player arenas are not going to help, as Lusche said why leave a 100 capped arena to go to a 64 capped arena? Thats what it amounts to.
My point was that the 64 player online wargame which was mentioned earlier in the thread WOULD indeed be able to
compete with HTC's customer base since a very large number of them are relegated to playing in an arena
which quite often has LESS than that.
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I hate caps and eny. I don't like playing in the evening as I typically dislike the prevailing attitudes of those under the age of 30 (with notable exceptions, of course). Being semi-retired, I typically play in morning CST.
If we were allowed to switch countries only once per tour - preventing advantageous side-switching, then who cares about eny? When I log in and can't find a fight, I make one. Simple enough. If you get your bases taken away because the other side is running them, well, where's your countrymen? If you cap anything, cap the total number that one country can have at the start of the tour, say, no more than 1000 players per country per tour. Then let the law of averages run its course. I don't know if there's data to support that more Bish are on in the AM than Rooks, or more Nits are on between 4pm and 6pm than Bish, etc., but that's the way wars run. Sometimes you have the numerical advantage, sometimes you don't.
It might be a worthwhile idea to consider an experiment. For a few weeks, even a month, raise the cap on the Orange arena so everyone can get in, and make Blue a 2-country arena. Instead of Bish, Rooks and Knights, simply have Red and Blue teams. See how the dynamic changes with a 2-sided war, review the data, and see if there's anything that can be learned from having a 2-sided war. Side balancing in a 2-sided war makes a lot more sense. Since I fly for only 1 country, its not unusual to see Team 1 hitting us one side, Team 2 hitting us at the same time on the other side, yet we have 20 more players and ENY issues. In theory, that should be negated because in theory Team 2 and 3 should be fighting each other as well. You can determine in your own head who Team 1, 2, and 3 are....
Just sayin'....experiment, see what happens. A 2-sided arena might be dead after a month, it might be really popular.