Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: trax1 on September 19, 2010, 09:18:10 PM
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I was watching the Cubs game today when in the 2nd inning Cubs rookie Tyler Colvin was pierced in the chest by a broken bat when he was on 3rd base, it didn't look too serious at first when it happen, you could see some blood, but not all that much, turns out that it didn't just give him a scratch but had pierced his chest, he's gonna be in the hospital for several days having a procedure to prevent a collapsed lung. The bat that broke was a maple bat, which tend to break into larger pieces then the ash bats, maybe now after this MLB will finally ban maple bats, this was bound to happen sooner or later.
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100919&content_id=14847072&vkey=news_chc&c_id=chc (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100919&content_id=14847072&vkey=news_chc&c_id=chc)
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I doubt that will happen. Most players prefer maple over ash I'm sure even Tyler Colvin uses Maple bats.
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I was watching the Cubs game today when in the 2nd inning Cubs rookie Tyler Colvin was pierced in the chest by a broken bat when he was on 3rd base, it didn't look too serious at first when it happen, you could see some blood, but not all that much, turns out that it didn't just give him a scratch but had pierced his chest, he's gonna be in the hospital for several days having a procedure to prevent a collapsed lung. The bat that broke was a maple bat, which tend to break into larger pieces then the ash bats, maybe now after this MLB will finally ban maple bats, this was bound to happen sooner or later.
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100919&content_id=14847072&vkey=news_chc&c_id=chc (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100919&content_id=14847072&vkey=news_chc&c_id=chc)
No need to ban them, but Colvin should have been looking at the plate. I'm glad he's recovering just fine though.
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Ouch the thought of projectiles piercing the upper body part just freaks me out hope he get's better.
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few inches higher and could be in bigger trouble if it penetrated into his neck.
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This has been an accident a LONG time coming. I kept saying that someone was going to get impaled, and looks like it finally happened.
Maple bats need to go away. Simple as that.
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Players in other sports die all the time. Baseball players just need to quit whining. They can wear armor if they're so scared.
Come to think of it, more players have suffered severe injuries from being hit in the head with the ball than from being speared by exploding maple bats. Therefore I think they should replace the regular baseball with an 8 inch diameter nerf ball. The same goes for bowling... How many wrist and foot injuries have been caused by heavy bowling balls? Replace them with nerf, and no more injuries.
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Players in other sports die all the time. Baseball players just need to quit whining. They can wear armor if they're so scared.
Come to think of it, more players have suffered severe injuries from being hit in the head with the ball than from being speared by exploding maple bats. Therefore I think they should replace the regular baseball with an 8 inch diameter nerf ball. The same goes for bowling... How many wrist and foot injuries have been caused by heavy bowling balls? Replace them with nerf, and no more injuries.
haha
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More people then just Tyler Colvin have been injured from Maple bat breaks, this has just been the most serious, since about 2007 there have been debates about MLB banning the wood because of the danger it not only poses to the players but to the fans in the stands as well. Players just started using maple bats in 2001 when Barry Bonds started using one, and there's no data that shows they hit any better then bats made of ash. Just this year MLB put restrictions on certain types of maple wood used to make the bats because of the splintering problem, I'm just saying get rid of them all together before someone dies, the one that hit Colvin today was just inches from his heart.
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More people then just Tyler Colvin have been injured from Maple bat breaks, this has just been the most serious, since about 2007 there have been debates about MLB banning the wood because of the danger it not only poses to the players but to the fans in the stands as well. Players just started using maple bats in 2001 when Barry Bonds started using one, and there's no data that shows they hit any better then bats made of ash. Just this year MLB put restrictions on certain types of maple wood used to make the bats because of the splintering problem, I'm just saying get rid of them all together before someone dies, the one that hit Colvin today was just inches from his heart.
MLB players make so much they could buy a new body
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I'm just sayin that the exact same arguments can be made about the ball itself. Fans get injured by balls hit into the stands all the time. I saw an umpire get a broken face from a fastball tipped just barely enough to sail over the catcher's glove and into the umpire's face. Catchers who don't use the neck guard risk having their throat crushed by a ball. That ball is dangerous, and any player hit in the head with one is risking death. Why continue with that sort of risk?
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I'm just sayin that the exact same arguments can be made about the ball itself. Fans get injured by balls hit into the stands all the time. I saw an umpire get a broken face from a fastball tipped just barely enough to sail over the catcher's glove and into the umpire's face. Catchers who don't use the neck guard risk having their throat crushed by a ball. That ball is dangerous, and any player hit in the head with one is risking death. Why continue with that sort of risk?
Yeah but this is something that can be easily prevented and wont effect play, in 2005 MLB & the players union commissioned a report that shows a maple bat hits no harder then one made of ash, and it's not like this is a type of bat thats really been used since the game started, before 2001 they were barely used,, so it's not a change that would effect the game at all, so the argument about changing the ball isn't that same, that would change the play of the game. In 2008 Bud Selig said that the use of maple bats was one of the games most pressing issues.
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Yeah but this is something that can be easily prevented and wont effect play, in 2005 MLB & the players union commissioned a report that shows a maple bat hits no harder then one made of ash, and it's not like this is a type of bat thats really been used since the game started, before 2001 they were barely used,, so it's not a change that would effect the game at all, so the argument about changing the ball isn't that same, that would change the play of the game. In 2008 Bud Selig said that the use of maple bats was one of the games most pressing issues.
Players will disagree. Players prefer maple. The thing is, the ball is magnitudes more dangerous than splintering maple bats. Bat companies were supposed to rotate the grains 90 degrees a couple years ago to prevent projectiles launching outward IIRC. I wonder if the bat castillo was using was set like that or if it was just some ghey minor league rule. Either way, I don't think they should be banned. This was just a freak thing and a similar situation might not happen for another 100 years. Like a guy getting his throat sliced by another guy's skate in hockey. It's just a freak accident. Doesn't mean you are going to ban ice skates.
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Let the players union vote on it, preferably the position players, and if they want them banned, then so be it, but I don't anticipate that happening.
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Let the players union vote on it, preferably the position players, and if they want them banned, then so be it, but I don't anticipate that happening.
Well it's not too much of a freak thing, in 2008 Pittsburgh Pirates hitting coach Don Long had his face seriously scared by a piece of a maple bat, the sharp end struck him in his left check slicing muscle & nerve and looks like a zipper now. Again in 2008 a woman at a Rockies game who was in the stands was struck in the head with a large piece of a maple bat, these maple bats are going to end up killing someone someday and for what, because players mistakenly believe it gives them an advantage when studies have clearly shown they don't. So just since these bats have become popular in the last few years there's already 3 instances of people getting hurt, Baseballs gonna be around for a long time and there's just gonna be more serious injuries.
Story on Don Long:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplebats050808 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplebats050808)
Story on Rockies fan:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplebats050808 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplebats050808)
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I see what may end up happening in baseball, and that makes me think of something else... Nascar.
I mean seriously... racing means going fast... so what do they do? They slow down the cars.
Now the whole HANS device thing. I know it's supposed to be safer and all but come on.
My point is that there is an inherent danger involved with professional sports, and the players know this from the get-go, and this is one reason why they make the kind of money that they do.
Don't get me wrong, if the maple bat is really all that dangerous compared to other bats (I have done no actual first hand research to determine this or not) then I'm not necessarily against the idea of banning it, but if players are preferring it over other types of wood then there must be some kind of reason why.
My fear is that they will start making changes to the sport in the name of safety, and that eventually these changes will begin to change how the sport is played and next thing you know there are a bunch of guys out there using nerf balls and nerf bats with velcro gloves while wearing retard helmets.
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Maple bats have more pop, I've used both. Most players will agree.
And ash splinters off also, and can injure people. People have been seriously injured by flying bats, flying balls. Heck in college i hit a foul boul and cracked open some fan's face at texas a&m when he wasn't looking. Sure he was just a drunk aggie, but he's still a human being! :D (Hopes waffle does not see this)
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That guy was pretty lucky. I know bats break now and then but that is one of the few times I've actually heard of it striking someone to the point where it did some minor damage. I do recall long time ago when I was at a game, the bat went flying out of the batters hand and struck a little boy right on the elbow. The player gave him a signed bat afterwards.
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So just since these bats have become popular in the last few years there's already 3 instances of people getting hurt, Baseballs gonna be around for a long time and there's just gonna be more serious injuries.
Since 2001 there have been three instances of people getting hurt? 3? You're saying this is the most pressing issue? :confused:
Since 2001, there have been 21,870 Major league baseball games (Regular season only, 162x30 /2= 2430 games per season x 9 seasons including 2001)
Now, statistics are difficult to come by, as MLB teams keep these things close to the vest, but there is a bit of a baseline to research how many spectators are hurt by balls.
One lawsuit I found reported that in a five-year span at Fenway, injuries caused by foul balls ranged from 36 to 53 fans per year. Multiply that stat by 300 professional baseball teams networked through Major League Baseball, and at minimum, you may have 10,000 fan injuries per year caused by foul balls.
Lets just take the bottom number and say each MLB ballpark has 35 fans significantly injured every year. (This seems insanely low, but we'll use the bottom floor here. I've seen a fan beaned at almost every game I've been to) So, League wide, that comes out to ~ 1050 fans per year are significantly hurt by the ball per year.(30x35=1050)
Times 9 seasons, that's 9450 fans.... and you're pointing to the three instances that a certain type of bat caused an injury?
I find it amazing that baseball didn't learn a damn thing from hockey, and put up more netting. They will when a fan dies though, which will be too late.
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Since 2001 there have been three instances of people getting hurt? 3? You're saying this is the most pressing issue? :confused:
Since 2001, there have been 21,870 Major league baseball games (Regular season only, 162x30 /2= 2430 games per season x 9 seasons including 2001)
Now, statistics are difficult to come by, as MLB teams keep these things close to the vest, but there is a bit of a baseline to research how many spectators are hurt by balls.
Lets just take the bottom number and say each MLB ballpark has 35 fans significantly injured every year. (This seems insanely low, but we'll use the bottom floor here. I've seen a fan beaned at almost every game I've been to) So, League wide, that comes out to ~ 1050 fans per year are significantly hurt by the ball per year.(30x35=1050)
Times 9 seasons, that's 9450 fans.... and you're pointing to the three instances that a certain type of bat caused an injury?
I find it amazing that baseball didn't learn a damn thing from hockey, and put up more netting. They will when a fan dies though, which will be too late.
Baseball in Japan(or is it Korea?) has netting up all over the place to protect fans.
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Since 2001 there have been three instances of people getting hurt? 3? You're saying this is the most pressing issue? :confused:
Since 2001, there have been 21,870 Major league baseball games (Regular season only, 162x30 /2= 2430 games per season x 9 seasons including 2001)
Now, statistics are difficult to come by, as MLB teams keep these things close to the vest, but there is a bit of a baseline to research how many spectators are hurt by balls.
Lets just take the bottom number and say each MLB ballpark has 35 fans significantly injured every year. (This seems insanely low, but we'll use the bottom floor here. I've seen a fan beaned at almost every game I've been to) So, League wide, that comes out to ~ 1050 fans per year are significantly hurt by the ball per year.(30x35=1050)
Times 9 seasons, that's 9450 fans.... and you're pointing to the three instances that a certain type of bat caused an injury?
I find it amazing that baseball didn't learn a damn thing from hockey, and put up more netting. They will when a fan dies though, which will be too late.
For one the commissioner of MLB baseball Bud Selig said that this was one of the games most pressing issues. And yes those 3 incidents would not have happened if they would have been using ash bats, ash bats crack, with the maple bat they shatter, and it's not like it's just me saying this about banning maple bats, this has been a big issue for a few years now, research it, and a lot of players don't use them just because they know the danger involved with them when they break and don't want that on their conscience.
As for saying that they have more pop, they don't, it's all in the players head, MLB & the players union spent over $100,000 to have a university investigate this fact, they determined that a maple bats has absolutely no advantage over the ash bats. It's like a corked bat, everyone believes it makes you hit the ball better, but recent researched has shown that it doesn't, in fact it may hurt the speed at which the ball leaves the bat.
The reason some players started using them was because in 2001 Barry Bonds started using one and they saw the numbers he was putting up, so they thought that it was the bat giving him those numbers, but we know now the reason he started putting up numbers like that was because he was juicing.
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I was watching the Cubs game today when in the 2nd inning Cubs rookie Tyler Colvin was pierced in the chest by a broken bat when he was on 3rd base, it didn't look too serious at first when it happen, you could see some blood, but not all that much, turns out that it didn't just give him a scratch but had pierced his chest, he's gonna be in the hospital for several days having a procedure to prevent a collapsed lung. The bat that broke was a maple bat, which tend to break into larger pieces then the ash bats, maybe now after this MLB will finally ban maple bats, this was bound to happen sooner or later.
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100919&content_id=14847072&vkey=news_chc&c_id=chc (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100919&content_id=14847072&vkey=news_chc&c_id=chc)
Quick! Lets ban the bat, the tree, and the game. They are all obviously dangerous :rolleyes:
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For one the commissioner of MLB baseball Bud Selig said that this was one of the games most pressing issues. And yes those 3 incidents would not have happened if they would have been using ash bats, ash bats crack, with the maple bat they shatter, and it's not like it's just me saying this about banning maple bats, this has been a big issue for a few years now, research it, and a lot of players don't use them just because they know the danger involved with them when they break and don't want that on their conscience.
As for saying that they have more pop, they don't, it's all in the players head, MLB & the players union spent over $100,000 to have a university investigate this fact, they determined that a maple bats has absolutely no advantage over the ash bats. It's like a corked bat, everyone believes it makes you hit the ball better, but recent researched has shown that it doesn't, in fact it may hurt the speed at which the ball leaves the bat.
The reason some players started using them was because in 2001 Barry Bonds started using one and they saw the numbers he was putting up, so they thought that it was the bat giving him those numbers, but we know now the reason he started putting up numbers like that was because he was juicing.
Maple bats are also more durable and last longer usually, depending on the dimensions of course. And they have more pop.
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doesn't the use of maple bats have something to do with emerald ash borers killing ash trees? it's a big problem here in WI, I can't remember if I read of some connection with baseball or not. anyways, ash trees are dying like crazy here. don't use them to make bats! ok, thats my $0.02
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The reason some players started using them was because in 2001 Barry Bonds started using one and they saw the numbers he was putting up, so they thought that it was the bat giving him those numbers, but we know now the reason he started putting up numbers like that was because he was juicing.
Corked bats have been around a LOT longer than 2001. Players have been corking bats (and doctoring balls) almost from the game's inception.
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Corked bats have been around a LOT longer than 2001. Players have been corking bats (and doctoring balls) almost from the game's inception.
talking maple bats, not corked bats
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There is a solution.
www.batglove.com (http://www.batglove.com)
Ash bats break too. When they helicopter like that it's usually because of the very thin handles that a lot of the players prefer nowadays. And most maple bats need thin handles to cut down on weight.
Maple bats don't have any more pop, it may just seem that way to the hitter because he's swinging a heavier bat. Maple is more dense than ash so the same model bat will be heavier in maple.
I remember reading somewhere a while ago about mlb pushing the bat manufacturers to get the players to order thicker handle bats. But really the best solution is just a simple piece of tape. I'd use it.
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There is a solution.
www.batglove.com (http://www.batglove.com)
Ash bats break too. When they helicopter like that it's usually because of the very thin handles that a lot of the players prefer nowadays. And most maple bats need thin handles to cut down on weight.
Maple bats don't have any more pop, it may just seem that way to the hitter because he's swinging a heavier bat. Maple is more dense than ash so the same model bat will be heavier in maple.
I remember reading somewhere a while ago about mlb pushing the bat manufacturers to get the players to order thicker handle bats. But really the best solution is just a simple piece of tape. I'd use it.
You DO realize Grizz knows more about this topic more than ANYONE else here?!!!
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OK first off....I can't stand pro baseball...bunch of over payed and under played....P*%(&'s if you want to know the truth.
Second...they still have pro baseball!!!!
Seriously you baseball fans listen to what Bud "I can't make a decision and stick with it" Selig??? I mean come on...three injuries since 01 and its a "pressing" issue? My lord find something else to whine about and then lets talk.
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OK first off....I can't stand pro baseball...bunch of over payed and under played....P*%(&'s if you want to know the truth.
Over payed? Sounds like jealously to me.
Underplayed? They played 162 games a season + spring training.
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OK first off....I can't stand pro baseball...bunch of over payed and under played....P*%(&'s if you want to know the truth.
Second...they still have pro baseball!!!!
Seriously you baseball fans listen to what Bud "I can't make a decision and stick with it" Selig??? I mean come on...three injuries since 01 and its a "pressing" issue? My lord find something else to whine about and then lets talk.
You know what the irony about complaints over baseball salaries in today's game is?
People have been making the EXACT same complaints since the first pro team in 1869.
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I can't stand pro baseball...bunch of over payed
the league makes a TON of money. the league isn't going to stop making all that money. who should get it? the owners? for what? for owning? pshaw. nobody more deserving than the PLAYERS, the ones who actually do the playing; the ones who provide all the entertainment. any other way to see it is absurd IMO. same in any sport.
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Over payed? Sounds like jealously to me.
Underplayed? They played 162 games a season + spring training.
I agree 100%, no other Major Sport comes close to it, in terms of length of schedule.
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Just did a little bit of rough math for those who think they are overpaid.
NFL average salary for 2009 - $770,000
MLB average salary for 2010 - $2,700,000
Of course these are rough numbers and were retrieved from 2 different sites so the numbers could vary a little but let's break down salary per game shall we.
NFL salary per game counting 16 weeks of regular season and we'll say our player made it through all 3 weeks of the postseason to the Super Bowl for a total of 19 games.
$40,526.32/game
MLB salary per game counting 162 regular season games and our player made it all the way through game 7 of the World Series.
$14,917.27/game
Now I know NFL players have a more "physically demanding sport." I'll agree that some of them get right beat up during a game and baseball is for the most part non-contact and a slower pace unless you're a Catcher like I was and that's a whole different story. However, MLB players also play about an average of 6 games per week with constant travel as well and anyone who has played college ball or higher will tell you that the travel will wear down on you quickly.
For the sake of argument, I have left out Spring Training, Fall Instructional Leagues, etc. for MLB players and preseason games and team mini-camps for NFL players. I just never have agreed with people who feel that baseball players are overpaid. I agree that some of them do receive a ridiculous amount of money, but there are quite a few that make peanuts compared to those guys.
Back on topic though. Like some have said, foul balls do a ton of damage each year but it's something that you know can happen when you attend a game. I park my car everyday at the high school field where it is somewhat exposed to foul balls and park it at the rec league field where it can be hit but it's a chance I take. I know coaching that I can get drilled by a line drive and almost did this year sitting in a dugout, luckily I happened to be leaned over getting something out of my bag at the time, but it's a chance I take. I hope major league parks never put up the netting because being out in the open enjoying the game is something that I love and I think the net would be a distraction which is why I never sit behind home plate.
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I hope major league parks never put up the netting because being out in the open enjoying the game is something that I love and I think the net would be a distraction which is why I never sit behind home plate.
+1
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Just did a little bit of rough math for those who think they are overpaid.
NFL average salary for 2009 - $770,000
MLB average salary for 2010 - $2,700,000
Of course these are rough numbers and were retrieved from 2 different sites so the numbers could vary a little but let's break down salary per game shall we.
NFL salary per game counting 16 weeks of regular season and we'll say our player made it through all 3 weeks of the postseason to the Super Bowl for a total of 19 games.
$40,526.32/game
MLB salary per game counting 162 regular season games and our player made it all the way through game 7 of the World Series.
$14,917.27/game
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$15K per game huh? Not bad for playing a game. It's all financial. If they weren't generating revenue then they wouldn't make that kind of money.
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The thing is about baseball salaries... You can whine about them making all this money but in reality, all the money they make has to sometimes last them for the rest of their family's lives. So just because you make 10 million dollars (before the government takes half of it because you are rich) playing the game for 7 or so years, 5 million over your next 50 years of life turns out to be only $100,000/year. Granted, they might get into coaching, or another profession, but imagine being 35 years old, retired from the game of baseball, and not have any real life skills outside of the baseball universe. What about the guys that play in the minors for years, get a sip of coffee in the big leagues, and are out of the game at the age of 35 with barely any financial reward to show for? That would be the worst outcome I can think of. So there is definitely a huge risk playing the game throughout your twenties, financially speaking. The pot at the end of the rainbow is why thousands of players compete and sacrifice to try and get there.
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Simple solution.
Design a wood-core bat with a micro-thin Kevlar jacket or covering over it. As long as it doesn't effect the performance of the bat. Bat shatters, instead of flying spikes of ash or maple, you got a wet noodle.
J
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Simple solution.
Design a wood-core bat with a micro-thin Kevlar jacket or covering over it. As long as it doesn't effect the performance of the bat. Bat shatters, instead of flying spikes of ash or maple, you got a wet noodle.
J
Or we just leave it alone. Not everything needs a fix ;)
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Or we just leave it alone. Not everything needs a fix ;)
Exactly :aok
I'd be interested to see how many lives the skull cap that base coaches have to wear has saved. I need to go dig that up. Remember a couple of years ago when it was a big deal and was instituted because one of the minor league coaches was hit and died?
I have a buddy that coaches in a wood bat summer league that is meant for upcoming college players. It's pretty much the next step down from the Cape League. He has had to wear one of those skull caps and I give him all sorts of grief and have taken numerous pictures for blackmail.
He's also the head varsity coach of the high school that I coach at and threatened to make us wear them but thankfully hasn't yet. I'll admit, I was hit twice this year while coaching third base, once in the leg and once in the back, but I had enough time to move or shield my grape from being hit. Last year when we went to an annual coaches' conference here in VA, one of the guys said that the High School League that governs all high school sports in the state was looking at instituting the skull cap for base coaches, I sure hope they keep deciding not to.
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I agree 100%, no other Major Sport comes close to it, in terms of length of schedule.
Hockey is very arguably twice as hard on the body as baseball so I'll say their 82 game schedule would compare.