Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: nrshida on September 20, 2010, 03:42:44 PM

Title: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on September 20, 2010, 03:42:44 PM
For those who have asked, here are some pictures of the homemade throttle I use to play Aces High.

Hopefully it will at least inspire someone who is thinking of making a similar controller themselves. Especially those on a small budget, as I was when I made it. I am not a nerd and not an electronics expert either. I just wanted a decent throttle that would last a long time. I had more time than money when I made it, so it is made mostly from recycled scrap parts with only a few hand tools.

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1341/backrightthrottledown.jpg)

(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/9712/topright.jpg)

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8503/rightview.jpg)

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7402/70parts.jpg)

The black body, centre pivot and aluminium cover are from a broken hard drive. The cover reminded me a little bit of a P-38 throttle quadrant I'd seen in a picture and that's what gave me the idea. The main pivot is ballraced so there is no stiction at all and the movement of the lever is very precise (and silent). The white arch part serves as a spacer and also connection to the base plate and is built up from sheets of plastic card. The green cover is scratchbuilt from Tamiya kit parts (good plastic you see).

Disclaimer, some of the below is slightly technical and very boring if you're not interested in such things.

It uses a Leo Bodnar 12-bit controller (http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836A/). This just gives you more precision, same as with many digital cameras nowadays. Without wanting to bore anyone to death, most commercial controllers are currently 8 bit, which looks like this: 11111111 which is binary for 255, thus you can store any number between o and 255, hence 256 steps. One third throttle would be for 01010101 for example (decimal 85).

With a 12 bit controller you have 12 bits, so there is more space available: 00001111 11111111 or binary 4095, thus a much higher resolution. AH interprets the throttle position between two fixed values, but you can make a much finer adjustments between these two points. Also future-proofs the unit somewhat I hope.

Mr Bodnar suggested that having the potentiometer rotating as much as possible gave more precision. Given I only wanted the lever to move about one third of a circle, I decided to use a gear system to step up the movement of the pot.

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/174/reductiongearandonerock.jpg)

I bought some Lego gears off eBay and carefully carved the centre out of the black one, fitting this to the moving hub. This was the part that supported the actual disks when it was a hard drive. The smaller grey gear drives the pot. The interference was critical because I didn't want backlash and also not too tight for longevity.

I was a little more lucky than skillful here because when I tested it I had 4093 of the possible 4096 steps. Had the pot rolled more than 360 degrees the value would drop back to zero so I'd drop back down to zero power at full throttle. The lever moves 140 degrees and the pot almost a full circle.

I tried to design it so I didn't have to take my hand off the throttle to push a separate WEP switch, thus when the throttle is at the fully open stop, I can actually click the lever a tiny bit further to operate a microswitch. Since I'd done that at the front stop I did the same at the rear stop and that is the engine start / stop switch.

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5650/workinggubbins.jpg)

When the knob is totally vertical, that is exactly 50% power. So I can feel the power setting and operate all the relevant switches without looking or taking my hand off it.

The tools used for this project were: one borrowed hacksaw, a few hand files, one pin-vice with a set of five small drills, some emery paper, a Swann Morten knife with several packets of blades and two 3mm taps and wrench. No power tools were used at all.

The lever was cut and filed from a piece of T6 plate I had salvaged from somewhere and the knob is not a full sized number 13 poolball, but a key ring that someone gave me. Number 13 is my racing number, well, my birthday actually. It had the perfect size & slippery texture.

It is fully functional and has been in use for a year now so far. Not cosmetically finished yet, I want to add two simple sliders into the slots of the green cover. One for RPM and the other for a spare. Once it's finished I will paint it.

The only functional addition will be a counterbalance so the lever can be left in any position. I have a lump of Bismuth which I will cast into the appropriate shape. I will probably do that on the beach when it is quiet because Mrs Shida frowns upon molten metal in the kitchen.

Was it worth it? Well I did learn a lot about projects, fabrication and especially determination. The throttle is very nice to use and has required no maintenance, save for one of the rocker arms breaking. I since replaced it with a thicker one. The potentiometer is rated for 5,000,000 rotations and I have a few spares. I never have to recalibrate it.

Was a lot of hard work, about four times more than I first imagined. I did enjoy making it though. Lots of tiny problems to solve & plenty of lateral thinking required.

Anyway, hope it is interesting to someone at least!


Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 20, 2010, 04:01:48 PM
Hurrah! :banana:

Looks like it's bought from a specialised flight sim store. :salute

Ever thought of making and selling them. :old: :joystick:

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Sid on September 20, 2010, 06:10:56 PM
Very nice Sir  :salute
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: potsNpans on September 20, 2010, 07:04:08 PM
Excellent! Inspiring to see the innovative mind problem solving. Lets see your work on Trim and flaps  :aok 
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: BaldEagl on September 20, 2010, 10:40:32 PM
Wow.  Very cool.

I use my mouse wheel.  It works, was cheap and I didn't learn anything.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: SEseph on September 20, 2010, 11:32:09 PM
Very nice sir!  :salute
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: pervert on September 21, 2010, 12:15:16 AM
nrshida.....has skills  :D  :rock
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 21, 2010, 01:51:09 AM
My toaster has broke if I send it to you can you have a quick look at it :old:
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Scotch on September 21, 2010, 02:15:34 AM
Maybe he can turn it into new pedals for ya
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 21, 2010, 02:35:10 AM
I have just bought some CH pedals :old:
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Scotch on September 21, 2010, 02:41:11 AM
You can sell them to me for cheap. :) I doubt they will compare to your new toaster feet anyway.

Btw, what's with all the   :old::old:? Aren't you like 14?  :D
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 21, 2010, 03:59:58 AM
No I am a old sod with a mental age of 16 year old :banana:

Hurrah!
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 21, 2010, 04:16:32 AM
By the way Shida if you want any bits and pieces we have a warehouse full of old hardware from years ago, electronics etc and machine gearboxes  :old: :joystick:
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on September 21, 2010, 06:17:21 AM
Ha ha, BaldEagl's way smarter than me!

Thanks for all the kind comments.

CH pedals can't be beaten imho, but I will try to convert your toaster to USB for you Zack. 12-bit precision plus I'll keep the heating element in so you can keep your feet warm in the winter. Would you like me to have it pop you out of your chair with your hair on fire when you get shot down?
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 21, 2010, 06:25:40 AM
I am bald :banana:
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: mbailey on September 21, 2010, 06:33:23 AM
Ha ha, BaldEagl's way smarter than me!

  Would you like me to have it pop you out of your chair with your hair on fire when you get shot down?

After looking at that throttle, there is no doubt in my mind that you could make that happen LOL   :aok

Throttle is just awesome sir
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Ghosth on September 21, 2010, 06:50:34 AM
That is a very nice piece of work sir!
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: MickDono on September 21, 2010, 07:24:40 AM
Would you like me to have it pop you out of your chair with your hair on fire when you get shot down?

hahaha
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 21, 2010, 08:14:48 AM
Ho! Ho! :banana:
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Vinkman on September 21, 2010, 09:40:18 AM
Very clever. I particularly like the on off switch and WEP switches at the end stops. Hope the RPM governor turns out as nice.  :salute
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: DeltaFox on September 21, 2010, 12:10:34 PM
Nice job.

You a design engineer or draftsman?  If not, you might want to think about it.

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: 633DH98 on September 21, 2010, 12:20:27 PM
Give nrshida a dremel tool and he'll rule the world.  :eek:


 ;)
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Nutzoid on September 21, 2010, 02:40:00 PM
I wonder. Would you be interested in making these for sell? I think I would buy one. Excellent job!  :salute
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: BoilerDown on September 21, 2010, 06:11:37 PM
That's badass.

Quote
It uses a Leo Bodnar 12-bit controller (http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836A/). This just gives you more precision, same as with many digital cameras nowadays. Without wanting to bore anyone to death, most commercial controllers are currently 8 bit, which looks like this: 11111111 which is binary for 255, thus you can store any number between o and 255, hence 256 steps. One third throttle would be for 01010101 for example (decimal 85).

With a 12 bit controller you have 12 bits, so there is more space available: 00001111 11111111 or binary 4095, thus a much higher resolution. AH interprets the throttle position between two fixed values, but you can make a much finer adjustments between these two points. Also future-proofs the unit somewhat I hope.

That right there makes it more advanced than 98% of what's on the market right now.  The joystick industry has been stuck in the 8bit world for about 20 years too long imo.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on September 23, 2010, 06:38:14 AM
It's funny you say that DeltaFox, I am actually returning to University this year as a mature student to study Industrial Design Engineering.

I had considered making a production prototype, since a few friends also asked, especially for a dual throttle version. I roughly sketched a modular design (thus 1 to 4 throttles bodies which would interlock), but I would have to make a pre-production prototype, and then a pattern and have some bodies cast from Aluminium and then have them machined by a machine shop etc. I am a little short on tools and facilities at the moment, so it's no small undertaking!

I did begin to make a custom joystick handle too, with some interesting features, but I'm just a little busy right now with language courses so I've had to shelve my fabrication projects for the time being.

Perhaps when they let me at the Bridgeport machines at Uni, I will be able to do more!

Thank you for all the kind comments, hopefully I've chosen a suitable career path this time around.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 23, 2010, 06:41:05 AM
What about mature cheddar?
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on September 23, 2010, 06:51:26 AM
I've heard it's difficult to machine Zack!
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: ebfd11 on September 23, 2010, 08:01:53 AM
Looks awesome, I wish I were that mechanically inclined and smart enuf to do something like that.

The most intense thing I built was my comp but of course that is all plug and play.

But all I can say is WOW.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Ghosth on September 23, 2010, 11:59:09 AM
If that did 2 engines (two levers) I'd consider buying one.

I'd much prefer a full 4 quadrant, and I hadn't ever considered the engine off/on wep end of travel micro switch's. That is some very nice work you've done.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Dragon on September 23, 2010, 12:48:30 PM


I like the new math

1 hard drive + 2 Lego's = 1 sweet donut throttle
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: BoilerDown on September 23, 2010, 02:42:10 PM
If you actually do decide to produce, considering you just posted very detailed instructions here, be sure to at least consult a patent lawyer.

As for school I'm doing very similar, Industrial Management as a non-traditional student.  :)
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 23, 2010, 09:19:54 PM
Hurrah! :banana:

Looks like it's bought from a specialised flight sim store. :salute

Ever thought of making and selling them. :old: :joystick:



I was thinking the exact same thing
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 24, 2010, 02:41:04 AM
Come on Shida I will give £20 for it a 3 bottles of sunny delight for it :old:
I think you can make a improved model for yourself
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on September 24, 2010, 05:52:29 AM
Ohhh, I'm not sure there's anything so original to warrant patenting is there? Well, if anyone amongst the Aces High community wishes to copy elements of the design for their own use, that's alright with me. Help yourself.

The only real brain teaser was really how to make the throttle hit a stop, but then still allow it to go a smidgen further to activate the microswitch, WITHOUT moving the potentiometer any further. Obviously two separate stops were needed.

I prefer to keep the moving parts to a minimum in my designs for longevity and ease of maintenance, so I rejected springs and mechanisms and decided to take a risk on an unknown, and employ tiny Neodymium magnets to act as springs instead:-

(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3548/dsc07535a.jpg)

In this shot you can see the silver coloured throttle lever coming up to the left of the frame (that has the number 13 knob on the end of it). behind it going up and right is a sort of green A-shaped thing. This is attached to the ring which has the black gear on it (that drives the pot). To the bottom right and horribly out of focus is the rear stop for this A-shaped finger. Both the throttle lever (silver) and the A-shaped finger thing (green) hold a cylindrical Neodymium magnet which normally hold these parts in station together. The magnetic field is the only thing that keeps these two parts moving together when the throttle is operated. I've simply pulled them apart for the photo.

In the next three photos you can see what happens as I approach full throttle and then activate WEP (these are perhaps clearer if you download them and view them as a slideshow).

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4640/dsc07536m.jpg)

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7082/dsc07537s.jpg)

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1930/dsc07538.jpg)

The potentiometer drive stops before the lever does. The green thing at 45 degrees in the top left of frame with the silver shaft through it is the full-power setting stop, here you can see the little rocker arm moving. This lever pushes on the microswitch (you can see this on the other side, as shown in one of my earlier photos). Thus when the A-finger hits the stop, further pressure separates the magnets slightly to allow the silver lever to press on the rocker arm to operate the microswitch on the other side of the body, then the magnets pull themselves back together when you release. Phew, I think it was easier to make it than explain it.

The fan shaped green plate which moves with the lever is the carrier for the counterbalance. Just work in progress at the moment.

I'd never used these little magnets before in a project and they really work great! I like to keep some spares in Mrs Shida's purse, right next to her credit card. That way I can always find them.

Zack, much as I'd love to score some Sunny Delight (can't buy it here), do you see in the fourth of my original photographs, the black aluminium body has a big 5 mm hole in the bottom left of shot? That's where the potentiometer  shaft passes through the body.

The material there was 6 mm thick, and my drills ran out at 3 mm diameter. The only way I could make that hole was to drill it to 3 mm, with a pinvice holding the drill, then spend the next 3 days working at it with Emery paper wrapped around the tail of one of my files whilst watching endless films on television. After that I didn't have any fingerprints nor the will to live for three weeks so no, it's not for sale for any money, lol.

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Ghosth on September 24, 2010, 07:35:17 AM
Well if you wanted to make them I think we could buy you a new drill bit in the right size. :)
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: 71313 on September 26, 2010, 12:46:29 AM
nice  craftmanship :aok
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: BoilerDown on September 26, 2010, 09:51:47 AM
Quote
I'd never used these little magnets before in a project and they really work great! I like to keep some spares in Mrs Shida's purse, right next to her credit card. That way I can always find them.

Nice  :rofl
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on September 26, 2010, 03:29:20 PM
He he BoilerDown, I wondered if anyone would catch that one  ;) Good luck with your studies sir.

Thank you Ghosth!  :salute

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: BaldEagl on September 27, 2010, 01:15:02 AM
I really do think you should patent this.  You've done some very clever things with the gearing and the magnets/microswitches that are, as far as I know, unique to any game controllers.  If you don't want to build these then patent it and try to license it to someone else.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Ghosth on September 27, 2010, 07:02:33 AM
I agree with Bald, combination of the end switch's with the magnets puts you in undeveloped country.
Stake your claim on it, then sell it to someone like Saitek or CH. Let them build them while you get a piece of the action.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Tinribs on September 27, 2010, 02:37:38 PM
Allways had the feeling that you were smarter than the average joe however had you built the entire thing out of lego I would have had a chance of making me own,its all self, self ,self with you people.Truly awesome piece of kit,patent it and make a million you deserve it. :aok


aka. shotdown
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Dichotomy on September 27, 2010, 02:40:01 PM
I agree with Bald, combination of the end switch's with the magnets puts you in undeveloped country.
Stake your claim on it, then sell it to someone like Saitek or CH. Let them build them while you get a piece of the action.


x3
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 27, 2010, 08:35:30 PM
I agree with Bald, combination of the end switch's with the magnets puts you in undeveloped country.
Stake your claim on it, then sell it to someone like Saitek or CH. Let them build them while you get a piece of the action.


X4

Yes before someone else see's it and claims it as their own.
Then you will be kicking yourself for not doing it
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Have on September 28, 2010, 03:13:24 AM
Nice throttle  :aok

On the patenting - now that the design has been made public, doesn't that automatically void any patent applications on this thing?
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on September 28, 2010, 04:00:14 AM
I really know very little about patenting, save that it's expensive (around $2000 in the U.S. Around €20,000 in EACH European country), difficult to attain and often circumvented. This goes back to 1780 when some slag called James Pickard patented the crank and flywheel, believe it or not. This was worked around by James Watt, who employed a sun and planet gear to do the same thing.

I thought that playing with patents was nowadays a rich man's game, or an investors game. I really don't have that kind of resources. Intellectual property laws never seem to favour the inventive dudes. I could be wrong though if anyone knows better. But I have no time to research this now, I must study.

I'm absolutely blown away by all the positive comments. It really wasn't my intention at all, I just thought there would be other constructors / simulator pilots who would find it interesting or inspiring.

Actually the throttle was a bit of a diversion for me from one of my other design projects. If you liked the throttle you should see my motorcycle design. I've been busy with that for three years now.

P.S. Hey Shotdown, good to see you, where have you been?

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 28, 2010, 06:23:10 AM
alright Shida

£25 6 bottles of sunny delight and a photo of Bruv in the bath :old:
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Vinkman on September 28, 2010, 08:33:56 AM
Nice throttle  :aok

On the patenting - now that the design has been made public, doesn't that automatically void any patent applications on this thing?

I don't think so. This would count as a record with a time stamp of him developing the concept. It would only be a problem if someone files a patent on this before him and it is granted. Then it gets tricky.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on September 28, 2010, 09:20:31 AM
We had all the European patents stored in our archive at work.
Thousands of red boxes full of patents.

We also had original plans  for the first railways built in Britain. :old:
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on May 08, 2017, 10:01:57 AM
Now where was I? Oh yes, bespoke throttles. Now I’ve finished my degrees and Tiny Shida is at school, I find finishing my throttle has jumped up my todo list from the thousands to somewhere into the low hundred zone. Actually I want to finish my custom joystick so finishing the throttle first makes a sort of weird sense.

This plate:

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/P1070024_zps9j16phcb.jpg)

...actually had a purpose. Because I used a ballraced-core, I never wanted to use a friction device. The obvious alternative being a counterbalance. Further not wanting to use lead or depleted Uranium, I bought some Bismuth off eBay, which is an interesting material. I made a pattern out of slices of plastic card, and then made a mould of that out of Milliput, which is an epoxy modelling putty from Wales, isn’t it. Lovely. The melting point of Bismuth was way above the temperature the manufacturers said Milliput could take, but the kevlar and German helmet with the spike on top wasn’t needed in the end (always good to have though). I melted it in a Mrs. Shida's favourite saucepan with a blow lamp and poured it in.

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/PC190018_zpsqlg531zc.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/PC190020_zps9nfphy3r.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/PC190021_zpszguhwu5a.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/PC190022_zpsy61twu8y.jpg)


Here’s where it sits in the throttle:

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_7803_zpswbsjdeau.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_7804_zps7qn2hjy9.jpg)

I had painted it gold at one point. I wanted to make a joke to Pervert that I’d cast it out of Nazi gold, but he got PNGed and the paint tarnished so never mind.


Next the ball from the ‘balls-to-the-wall’ fame. It isn’t a full-size Pool ball, it was a keyring. But it’s still heavy, too heavy for the counterbalance. I’d also considered fitting a momentary switch up there for a trigger or blip switch perhaps. I’ve got a Dremel now, so decided to remove some dead weight:-


(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_7724_zpsreew2d2o.jpg)



(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_7728_zpsn1acx6rc.jpg)

Unfortunately it still doesn’t quite balance and I dare not remove any more material. It’s just about as hollow as the Klingon moon Praxis and I don’t want to risk an interstellar incident. I was sure the Bismuth would be enough but such is the leverage advantage. Right now I can see some light through the wall so it looks like I’ll have to rebuild the left side cover (again) to accommodate some more weight. Perhaps some bolt-on steel plates this time because then I can trim the balance.

This was the cover I made for the counterbalance:

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_3747_zpshhbaf9eb.jpg)


Which I sawed off the outer half of the right cover figuring one additional analogue control was enough. AH doesn’t do mixture anyway. Those cylinders are actually the turret bases off the Tamiya 1:35th scale M42 Duster models and I've bought two so far. Buggered if I'll buy a third! Have to find some way to extend it with some more basic raw materials. I should imagine some heat, cunning and imaginative application of kitchen implements will be required. Usually is. (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/facepalm.gif)


Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: hotcoffe on May 08, 2017, 10:07:02 AM
cool wtg. nicely crafted
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on May 08, 2017, 10:18:55 AM
Regarding the secondary analogue control, I sawed this off the MS Sidewinder which forms the core of my joystick project (as it was superfluous).


(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_3749_zpsoqjkznfh.jpg)

(http://With sufficient cutting, shutting, Superglue and plastic welding I incorporated it into the right hand cover:

[img]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_3747_zpshhbaf9eb.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_4236_zpsd8d14lhn.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_4238_zps69ce8wjc.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_4378_zps6wlsmkhz.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_4377_zpsdsgfcu2n.jpg)

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/IMG_4379_zpslgezpl7t.jpg)

Sorry that last picture's a bit out of focus. If the little red finger-slider looks familiar, it’s not because it’s off a Moog 9000 Lady Gaga edition Super voice mangler mixing desk. I actually made a mould from an aluminium pencil sharpener and then hot pressed a blob of red plastic from a motorcycle kit into it. Also a Tamiya. I'm a sucker for Tamiya. Anyway it feels great!

There's also an outer cover and I'm now busy moving the digital electronics to a dedicated box because my custom joystick can do some really tricky things but I need to develop that.


At this stage I know what you're thinking. Is nrshida mad? Was it worth it? Well I stall fight a Ki-84 when I'm in game and having the world's most uber / precise throttle certainly helps with that. To the point where I even use Cadance throttle sometimes. The unit was mostly made of scrap parts and cheap(ish) raw materials. So was essentially 'free' or near to it. Hasn't cost as much time as this thread suggests. Bit of an on and off thing. Mostly new work starts with cleaning dust of it.

I’ve used it essentially continuously since the first post. It's never had any maintenance, grease, or major repair or even a single recalibration. Eat your heart out Saitek, CH, Logitech…

I'm spent. Think I'll have a lie down now for another seven years until I do some more work on it. Maybe even sooner! Hope this was inspirational or at least a bit entertaining.  :banana:



Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on May 09, 2017, 02:59:40 PM
Erm, as suggested by a friend I trust my last two posts are not a forum rule violations? Necrobumping or punting was something like making a non-substantive post I thought?

Seemed logical to continue this here.

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Skuzzy on May 09, 2017, 03:03:55 PM
Erm, as suggested by a friend I trust my last two posts are not a forum rule violations? Necrobumping or punting was something like making a non-substantive post I thought?

Seemed logical to continue this here.

And I agree.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on May 09, 2017, 03:10:33 PM
And I agree.

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/bounce.gif)
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Bruv119 on May 09, 2017, 03:46:55 PM
well done on finishing it shida.  perv has other forum accounts so he would still see it.

do you still need a photo of me in the bath??
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on May 11, 2017, 03:49:08 AM
Well finished is a big word! Lol. But it's worked well for a long time. Wait til you see my joystick, that's completely left field!

do you still need a photo of me in the bath??

Thanks Bruv but Zack already put a laminated one in the GFC Officer's Club toilet some years ago. He said it's best to have that sort of thing wipe clean. I'm sure he and Yarbles knows what that means. I just play Cabaret Voltaire very loud on my Sony Walkman when they start talking like that. Pipz sits in the corner rocking and crying. Yup, never a dull moment.

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: ACE on May 11, 2017, 07:42:36 AM
Well finished is a big word! Lol. But it's worked well for a long time. Wait til you see my joystick, that's completely left field!

Thanks Bruv but Zack already put a laminated one in the GFC Officer's Club toilet some years ago. He said it's best to have that sort of thing wipe clean. I'm sure he and Yarbles knows what that means. I just play Cabaret Voltaire very loud on my Sony Walkman when they start talking like that. Pipz sits in the corner rocking and crying. Yup, never a dull moment.



Sounds like the GFC is the place to be.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on May 11, 2017, 09:42:32 AM
Sounds like the GFC is the place to be.

Standard.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on March 11, 2022, 09:06:20 AM
Now then. I said in 2014 I'd do some more work in about 7 years, so I'm actually two years early.

First let me figure out this non Photobucket picture posting...
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on March 11, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=297108.0;attach=35101)

Oh no that's my dinner. Is there any way to obtain a link without an additional post?
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on March 11, 2022, 12:12:29 PM
Right I've got the hang of it now. Thanks to JimmyD3  :salute

Here is my throttle in the last instantiation before my most recent break from Aces High:-

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35103)

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35105)

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35107)

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35109)

No of course it's still not painted as is the nature of these projects. Although I've used it everytime I've flown AH for more than ten years, finished and functional are two different things. Especially if one keeps trying things out.

So the history of the throttle is I saw a picture of a P-38 throttle and coincidentally had a broken hard-drive which reminded me of that. Utilising a 12-bit Leo Bodnar controller (on my second one now) I have to say feel, precision and dynamic operation is really incomparible to standard, production, mass-produced throttles. However, it is based on a design which is pre-HOTAS in philosophy.

Really all my throttle can do is: throttle, engine on/off and WEP on/off for which I don't need to take my hand off the lever, and after all these years I know exactly where 50% power is by feel. Well it's easy, the ball is at its most upright position for that.

Those cherry-blossom computer keys are my attempt to add some 'fine-motor' controls to a device which is basically based around 'gross-motor' use. The classically-inspired ball throttle moves fore-and-aft without additional hat switches or buttons, which is a limitation!






Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Shuffler on March 11, 2022, 12:22:20 PM
Interesting indeed! I have to say that at first glimpse, I thought you cut yourself and there was blood on the white keys.  :rofl
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on March 11, 2022, 12:22:47 PM
As you can see these are just keyboard buttons arranged such that the two long ones activate the same funcitonality in game. I have been trying to put a trigger on my throttle since the Microsoft Sidewinder I was last using did not have as many buttons as my old CH Fighterstick (which died) and I was using the actual trigger for 'up-view'.

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35111)

Basically a sort of 'slap trigger', where rocking your hand clockwise caught either one of the long keys regardless of throtle position.

Maximum throttle:-
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35113)

Minimum throttle:-

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35115)




Sorry for the dirty thumb nail there. I've been fixing the intake system on our ancient car. No smoke. The fuel system is rotten. We have gasoline all over the place.
I literally can't get the parts  :old:

That little red 'knob' which I cast from a pencil sharpener is my pitch control. The normal-sized key at the front of the throttle I've was using for clipboard / zoom.


Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 11, 2022, 12:39:03 PM
I am impressed Nrshida. I have replaced a few pots. and switches over the years, but have never gone so far as actually building a functional proto-type.
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: SIK1 on March 11, 2022, 12:43:15 PM
Very cool.  :aok

 :salute
Sik
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on March 11, 2022, 12:57:40 PM
Back to the point about why this is never finished / painted comes to a fine & vital point of prototyping. It is quite one thing to have an idea, envision a solution, source the parts, work out the technology etc. AND! To quite convince yourself that's the solution. Then you come to use it.

In this case I found using those triggers detracted enormously from the fidelity of control I had reached by this simply being engine control, even though that essentially takes up my whole left hand. Furthermore there's always the unexpected. I found I could catch them accidentally all too often while operating the keyboard, sometimes depleting quite a bit of your 30-mm ammo, say, when you were on your way to HO J0ker in a K-4 (say). Then because of that it cocked-up desk-position, compromised my engine control further etc so therefore:-

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35121)

Ziiiiiiip!

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35123)

Off it came:-

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35125)



There. That's much better. Super-duper-high-precision electronic virtual piston-engine control restored. Sometimes simple is best. However I failed to solve the problem of additional controls. The 'pool-ball' is hollowed out for a momentary switch so I might revisit this. I didn't do that yet because the counterbalance I made wasn't quite enough to balance the weight of the ball on the end of a long lever.


Here's the counterbalance revealed underneath the cover. I appreciate the earlier pictures are gone I can't do anything about that I'm afraid. Many people who are apparently not AH players have PMed me through the years asking this or that. I can re-explain the mechanical operation if I have time and there's interest etc. It's much better being able to upload pictures here.

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404902.0;attach=35119)


Again it was definitely worth it, it is basically made out of recycled crap and the odd eBay purchase / re-appropriated items. The Bodnar controller I can highly recommend. It's 12-bit, so as stated earlier 1024 (? I forget now) steps as opposed to 255. I've literally had to calibrate it once (per controller). I updated at some point to the more expensive version with the push-in connectors. They are a bit of a pain in the arse to use actually as the wires are close together and the angle awkward and sometimes you lose a control when you keep packing it away and unpacking it as I have done for long periods here and there, but very configurable of course.

All of this is leading into why my Homemade Joystick project became quite a mammoth, well, thing really. Since my right hand necessarily needed to absorb all of the 'fine-motor' control duty which my left hand is unable to help with. Pictures of that in a forthcoming thread (maybe). If you think this project is nuts wait until you see that  :rofl

Happy Friday  :salute

Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: nrshida on March 11, 2022, 01:09:17 PM
Interesting indeed! I have to say that at first glimpse, I thought you cut yourself and there was blood on the white keys.  :rofl

No blood left now Shuffler. Just crystals come out (Andromeda Strain?). I've been using Swann-Morton scalpals for projects now for about 35-years! You often don't even feel those cuts, the parts just get a bit sticky. Cutting yourself with razor saws brings tears to your eyes though.


I am impressed Nrshida. I have replaced a few pots. and switches over the years, but have never gone so far as actually building a functional proto-type.

Thank you. Perhaps I should explain I started with models pre-teen, and have been making things since then, moving first to scratch-building eventually leading me to a Bachelor's and Master's degree in Industrial Design with some emphasis on interaction design which is quite involved. I have toyed with producing flight controllers from time-to-time. I daresay I could show the real aircraft designers a thing or two if I applied myself  :joystick:


Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: zack1234 on March 12, 2022, 06:06:53 AM
You have big hands :rofl
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle
Post by: Eagler on March 24, 2022, 06:17:39 AM
$120 and you are golden

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1331331-REG/thrustmaster_2960754_twcs_throttle.html/?ap=y&gclid=CjwKCAjwrfCRBhAXEiwAnkmKmQFG3qy_AfNCTtjD-G8DePcQEhYuKIrgqkk2vgTGR3nzWhhbpLgTzxoCJUoQAvD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=y

Betcha got at least that in time and materials in your homemade job

Eagler
Title: Re: Homemade Throttle (and a bit of Joystick)
Post by: nrshida on March 24, 2022, 03:52:57 PM
$120 and you are golden

Absolutely right, you can buy an off-the-shelf product and be in action as soon as UPS arrives. I've had a few production controllers. The difference that's hard to convey is in the feeling. This throttle has no friction, no stiction and is really precise without looking at it. Does WEP and Engine on/off with the single lever. No additional stages between thought and operation.

Actually why I've resumed my flight controller projects is I went to Assetto Corsa during my last break from AH. While I really liked it, controllers are a real limitation in driving sims, with some steering wheels North of $/£/€3k. And you have to spend the modey to do it to a high-standard. I've always been interested in the high-quality built-not-bought sort of thing.


Here's a couple of previews of my joystick project:-

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=35200)

In this picture you can see it's a bit Frankenstein's monster. It looks like it's been cut-and-shut and added to countless times and that's true. Just keep at it until the position of the controls are natural and can be accessed without thinking. The black and grey hat switches were made from molds of my old CH hat switch. Hopefully they'll absorb Combat Trim, Clipboard, all of that sort of administrative business. The dish-shaped disk is my hat switch. It's 9-position. Normal 8-position plus it depresses for UP-modification. I had a Track IR once but I got motion sickness very quickly. Anyone familiar with Tamiya military modelling should immediately see where I've sourced my primary raw material  :rofl


(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=35202)

Because of the limitations of my left hand only being able to control the engine, the HOTAS load really has to get picked up by my right hand. This is about as wide as I can go. There will be some controls on an upper-level for some of the span. That alloy bar on the disk is not a control but an instrument.


(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=35204)

Here's a little bit of the mechanism / electronics. The Lego gears drive a potentiometer. Flaps I think. Two-stage trigger to the left using roller microswitches. The grey and black hats drive PSP analogue inputs.