Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Imowface on September 21, 2010, 03:03:35 PM

Title: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Imowface on September 21, 2010, 03:03:35 PM
been flying the 109 G14 for a couple days now, and am really likeing it, it has flexible guns, ie 20mm or 30mm, i use the 30 though (its a lazer :) ) good speed, great climb, I have found that its marginly tought, accept for the glass radiator, but I would like to know how I can get better and improve in it
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: TnDep on September 21, 2010, 03:11:32 PM
just keep fighting and deuling in it imow we can do some deuls next time were both on
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Imowface on September 21, 2010, 03:14:03 PM
sounds good man, I will be on tonight for a few hours probably
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Ruah on September 22, 2010, 07:10:57 AM
I think the only reason (other then for perks) to fly the G14 over the K4 is the 20mm or Gondola package - if you like the 30mm, then the k4 is better I think.

I fly the G14 because I don't like the 30mm gun, but the K4 is the better ride in every way I think.

of course I could be wrong, I tend to stick to 190s and Yaks (and sometimes the LA-7 if its a fight near a base and low alt - but I feel guilty flying it)
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: TnDep on September 22, 2010, 07:58:50 AM
I think the only reason (other then for perks) to fly the G14 over the K4 is the 20mm or Gondola package - if you like the 30mm, then the k4 is better I think.

I fly the G14 because I don't like the 30mm gun, but the K4 is the better ride in every way I think.

of course I could be wrong, I tend to stick to 190s and Yaks (and sometimes the LA-7 if its a fight near a base and low alt - but I feel guilty flying it)

I disagree to an extent, the k4 is better if you know the planes limits 100% but for the average player I think the G14 is a much better plane for turning.  Obviously the k4 is faster which is good but the turning and throttle work to make the plane fly well you have to be very experienced in it.  I've flown the k4 a lot but I'm still a noob in that plane vs a good stick.  Gunnery has to be remarkable in that or no sense in flying it. 
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: sunfan1121 on September 22, 2010, 09:12:11 AM
I personally think the G14 is the best overall 109 variant. It has less torque than the K4 witch makes it more stable in the nose up stall. This makes it much better at pulling reversals on the enemy. If you can master the reversal you can master the G14. I like to think of it as the counter puncher, you need the other guy to make a move first then you blast him. Here's Some G14 reversal pr0n for everyone to enjoy.
www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/g14action2.ahf
www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/spit16reverse.ahf
www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/190reversal1946.ahf
(right click and save link with firefox.)
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Ardy123 on September 22, 2010, 12:25:52 PM
I used to fly the G14 almost exclusively. It can turn slightly better and for about 1000 feet range, between 4-5k, it can out climb a k4. The k4 is more 'stable' to me, but the G14 is more 'squirrelly' in its handling. As sunsfan stated, the g14 has less torque. The handling difference between a K4 and G14 don't seem that extreme to me, unlike the difference between a K4 and a F4. Both planes can do some 'tricks' which you may find fun to pull on a red guy. Tricks that exploit their handling characteristics.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Stones on September 22, 2010, 01:13:04 PM
Am still learning the 109F-4.  Started using it mostly this tour and will continue thru to the end of the next.  I intend to work my way thru the variants, although I don't go LW much so prob' won't see much of the K.

Just a quick question.  How or what is the quickest way of of getting from nose up to nose down at the top of a vert climb, ie a rope type or last resort vert scissors move.  Is it best to roll right or left at the top? Chop throttle and torque right or keep power on and let it roll on it's own left or not? Rudder, flaps etc..

Thanks

<S>
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Ardy123 on September 22, 2010, 01:17:36 PM
Am still learning the 109F-4.  Started using it mostly this tour and will continue thru to the end of the next.  I intend to work my way thru the variants, although I don't go LW much so prob' won't see much of the K.
I would recommend the G2, it will reduce your reliance on flat turns, yet still give you the option.
Just a quick question.  How or what is the quickest way of of getting from nose up to nose down at the top of a vert climb, ie a rope type or last resort vert scissors move.  Is it best to roll right or left at the top? Chop throttle and torque right or keep power on and let it roll on it's own left or not? Rudder, flaps etc..

roll to the left, engine torque will help you. If you roll to the right, you will be fighting the engine.


The quickest way is to slip some left rudder, move the stick to the left and rev-up the engine, to force it to roll quickly.

Thanks

<S>
[/quote]
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: TnDep on September 22, 2010, 04:41:00 PM
where ya been ardy haven't seen ya on in awhile around the da duels anyway
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Ardy123 on September 22, 2010, 04:47:05 PM
where ya been ardy haven't seen ya on in awhile around the da duels anyway

I make an occasional debut, but I've been very busy in RL, lots of work, etc...
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: TnDep on September 22, 2010, 04:48:53 PM
I make an occasional debut, but I've been very busy in RL, lots of work, etc...

You work?   :rofl

I'm only kiddin  :lol hope all is well ~S~

Need a duel session reunion  :D
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: jdbecks on September 23, 2010, 04:53:42 AM
I find when flying 109s is to always keep the fight in a vertical, always keep the nose up and good throttle management. I sometimes take the gondolas out when I want to fight fighters...but make sure you come in with a bit of alt and BnZ them..one quick burst with the 3 cannons and 2 mgs is almost gaurenteed a kill. just be aware it will effect your roll rate and speed etc
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: L0nGb0w on September 23, 2010, 08:43:07 PM
the g14 flies like a stuffed pig with gondies on, If you want to knife fight I recommend leaving them at home.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: The Fugitive on September 23, 2010, 09:22:13 PM
the g14 flies like a stuffed pig with gondies on, If you want to knife fight I recommend leaving them at home.

I don't think so, you just have to be a bit more aware of what your doing. Little mistakes you can get away with without the gondies hurt you with the gondies. I fly with them more often than not. With my horrible aim I need all the rounds I can get.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Ruah on September 24, 2010, 02:09:40 AM
I agree, with gondolas on, the 109 loses a lot of its competative edge - if you really need the firepower for whatever reason, then fly a plane that is better suited in that sense.  the 109 in almost every case should be light and agile.

then again, it seems that many posters think the G14 has something to offer over the K4 so. . . I will just b quiet now.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Imowface on September 24, 2010, 02:22:34 AM
I dont take the gondos ever, unless I know that im only fighting buffs, I find the tater easy to aim (thank you grizz) so if im going against fighters I dont need anything more then the mk-108, and thanks again TnDep for giving me some 109 lessons tonight
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: jdbecks on September 24, 2010, 03:39:10 AM
the g14 flies like a stuffed pig with gondies on, If you want to knife fight I recommend leaving them at home.

thats why I said

Quote
I sometimes take the gondolas out when I want to fight fighters...but make sure you come in with a bit of alt and BnZ them

and not when knife fighting..etc etc

then again, it seems that many posters think the G14 has something to offer over the K4 so. . . I will just b quiet now.

It does offer something over the K4
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Imowface on September 24, 2010, 01:23:39 PM
If I may ask, what is the key difference between the K4 and G14?
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Qrsu on September 24, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
They are similar, but the K-4 simply possesses the most power. This relates to the top end speed, climb and torque of the engine. You're looking at ~20mph difference at sea level. G-14 turns tighter and has more gun package options. Also, I'm in agreement with what others have stated about the nose up stall difference.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: L0nGb0w on September 24, 2010, 03:25:41 PM
I fly the g14 over the k4 because to me, it seems like I can dump my E quickly and get down and dirty for a 1v1 when I need to faster than I can with the k4.  That being said, in a large scale battle I prefer the k4 for its ability to accelerate and climb me out of danger.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Scotch on September 24, 2010, 04:54:05 PM
I think the biggest advantage of flying the G14 over the k4 is in taking the 20mm gun package. You're allowed to fly in more of a normal pursuit manner than the k4 where your goal is to setup crossing snapshots.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Muzzy on September 25, 2010, 03:19:29 AM
I just tried the K4 in the DA and the MA, and the only way I could get hits with the Tater was to get in 200 or less and let fly.  How do you get the 30mm into a crossing shot?  It seems quite a challenge given its accuracy.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Scotch on September 25, 2010, 03:47:14 AM
get in 200 or less and let fly

As far as a starting learning point, you answered your own question.  ;)
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: FLOTSOM on September 25, 2010, 11:22:32 AM
i dont know if he has been doing it lately, but Agent360 was going to furball lake in the DA almost every night. he has never, that i am aware of, declined to teach anyone who really showed an interest in learning the K4 how to understand the particular characteristics of the Beast. in addition he has created multiple training films on the 30mm tater chucker and practical theory on how to set up the crossing shot.

after Agent, i would say either Grizz or Scotch (when he returns) would be the next best in teaching the mechanics of flying the ugly iron. I rank them next after Agent and equal to each other not as a measure of skill level, for i personally think them all equal but different, but in their level of training patience and free time they are willing to surrender to train someone.

as to the benefits of the G14, well yes us noobs who cant shoot straight do benefit from the use of the gondies and all that lovely ammo. but as Agent once told me, if your willing to settle on spray and pray then take the large load out rides, but if you want to force yourself to improve your targeting skill then take the K4. you dont have enough cannon to rely on luck, you will have to learn to make your shots count or go home empty and without kills. those were not his exact words, but that was the point he was trying to drill into my head.

good luck with your endeavors
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: maddafinga on September 25, 2010, 11:50:59 AM
The K4 just seems more stable to me than the G14 does at very slow speeds.  Maybe it's just because I have a better feel for its edge, I don't know.  I know when I fly the G14 it seems to depart more suddenly and violently.  I also like the extra speed the K4 has, it's fun to run down people who decided they need to get away from you.  Also, I like the tater, in fact, I love the tater.  It is such a nice feeling to watch a plane fall to pieces after a snapshot. 
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Muzzy on September 25, 2010, 01:18:03 PM
i dont know if he has been doing it lately, but Agent360 was going to furball lake in the DA almost every night. he has never, that i am aware of, declined to teach anyone who really showed an interest in learning the K4 how to understand the particular characteristics of the Beast. in addition he has created multiple training films on the 30mm tater chucker and practical theory on how to set up the crossing shot.

good luck with your endeavors

Do you know where I might find those films? :)
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Muzzy on September 25, 2010, 01:24:04 PM
Disregard. I found them.  :aok

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280043.0.html
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Imowface on September 25, 2010, 02:20:04 PM
well, an update for everyone, from when I first got in a 109, I have gotten many times better in it, tater is my wepon of choice in it, and I can now usually make deflection/snapshots, and other wierd angle shots from 400 out, iv gotten extra lucky and landed 1 or 2 from 600+ out, TnDep gave me a lesson on actually flying it to get that shot, and grizz gave me some tips on how to use stalls to my advantage, so I deel that I am getting better in it 1 day at a time, thanks for all your help guys <S>
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Scotch on September 25, 2010, 02:21:09 PM
The K4 just seems more stable to me than the G14 does at very slow speeds.  Maybe it's just because I have a better feel for its edge, I don't know.  I know when I fly the G14 it seems to depart more suddenly and violently.  I also like the extra speed the K4 has, it's fun to run down people who decided they need to get away from you.  Also, I like the tater, in fact, I love the tater.  It is such a nice feeling to watch a plane fall to pieces after a snapshot. 

The k4 is more stable than the g14, even if the g14 does turn tighter etc, I find the instability negates those advantages. The other thing that bothers me about the g14 is the two big balls (cowls) sitting in your face. I'll never get used to that.  :)
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: FLOTSOM on September 25, 2010, 02:35:26 PM
The k4 is more stable than the g14, even if the g14 does turn tighter etc, I find the instability negates those advantages. The other thing that bothers me about the g14 is the two big balls (cowls) sitting in your face. I'll never get used to that.  :)

 :old: so many twisted ways to go with that!!!!!  :banana: :banana: :banana:

the possible trouble i could get myself into is unfathomable!!  :rofl :rofl :rofl

so ill leave it as i have been laughing for the past 5 minutes with all of my possible responses!  :neener:

 :bolt:
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Ardy123 on September 26, 2010, 02:42:39 AM
I am by no means the best k4 or g14 pilot, but I'd be willing to share what I know and help anyone who was interested in learning.
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: STEELE on September 28, 2010, 05:55:38 AM
For the 20mm fans: I've found that the G2 with small ammo loadout and gondolas to be very capable against fighters, leaving the extra 50 rounds off the nose lessens the Ill effects on turnrate and radius, with all those shells flying one can make some pretty wild shots
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: 321BAR on September 28, 2010, 11:23:08 AM
Has anyone helicoptered a K4 at the pinnacle of the stall due to torque? ive never done it in any other 109 variant and that torque spin has always been what kept me far away from the 109K. i literally did over 20 revolutions due to torque at the peak of the stall and actually was falling down backwards like a maple leaf seed. has anyone else ever encountered this torqueicopter stall? its kinda fun when not fighting other planes... :lol
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Muzzy on September 28, 2010, 11:59:53 AM
No but I want to try it now.  I'll let you know how it works out. :)
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Perrine on September 28, 2010, 01:33:47 PM
For the 20mm fans: I've found that the G2 with small ammo loadout and gondolas to be very capable against fighters, leaving the extra 50 rounds off the nose lessens the Ill effects on turnrate and radius, with all those shells flying one can make some pretty wild shots

50 extra nose cannon rounds  has ill effect on turn radius?

I think i'm better off dumping heavier 1200 peashooters (fire all rounds before taking off)  and take 200 cannon rounds instead:aok
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: STEELE on September 28, 2010, 09:03:21 PM
I dump the BB's as well, but the extra 50 20mms do add around 60 or so pounds IIRC from E6B testing, plus when U get down to ten rds u know its time to rtb as the gonds are empty
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: 321BAR on September 28, 2010, 09:15:53 PM
I dump the BB's as well, but the extra 50 20mms do add around 60 or so pounds IIRC from E6B testing, plus when U get down to ten rds u know its time to rtb as the gonds are empty
its like saying that taking a feather off an elephant will make a difference...
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Scotch on September 29, 2010, 12:04:49 AM
Yeah, at that point you should worry more about the angles you choose than the insignificant weight loss of your plane :)
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Imowface on September 29, 2010, 12:36:20 AM
I like the BB's or the G2, with the fast rate of fire, I have found its very very easy to kill pilots with them, although, I have started to fly exclusivly with the MG-151 or the G14, as I find it is a better match for the 13mm Mg's
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: Scotch on September 29, 2010, 12:48:47 AM
its like saying that taking a feather off an elephant will make a difference...

With elephants...
a feather might not, but at the end of the night, another beer certainly does!

 :devil
Title: Re: Learning the 109G14
Post by: 321BAR on September 29, 2010, 11:52:29 AM
With elephants...
a feather might not, but at the end of the night, another beer certainly does!

 :devil
bullet copycat! :lol