Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Kazan_HB on October 05, 2010, 09:31:32 PM
-
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5382/ahss71.jpg)
-
Where's the "yellow 1"?
-
Where's the "yellow 1"?
soon :devil
WIP - work in progress
-
Looks great so far :aok
-
:aok so far.
-
Cant wait to see this one done!
Can we get a few more angles of it though? :aok
-
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5088/ahss72.jpg)
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9138/ahss73.jpg)
-
That looks very nice :aok
-
as a recent 109 convert I can't wait to fly this one.
That's gorgeous man
-
I like the paint work and the markings (now that the "1" is there!) but I think the panel lines and panel overlap shadows are way overboard. That's the only criticism I have. Overall a good skin.
-
Thank you Krusty. I'm still a beginner :)
-
Small update
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/3526/ahss76.jpg)
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1499/ahss77.jpg)
-
Very nice skin, Kazan. I agree with Krusty though on the panel lines and panel section overlap shadowing being too strong.
Check some of the other 109 skins for location of little details like fuel grade warning labels, etc. Such small details really add to the authenticity of the skin. And less is more when doing engine exhaust / gun muzzle soot buildup.
<S>
-
Thx oboe
I am working on the new spinner . It, makes me crazy :t
Spinner looks s****!
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8072/kolpaki.jpg)
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2655/ahss78.jpg)
-
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9928/ahss79.jpg)
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7187/ahss80.jpg)
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3841/ahss81.jpg)
-
Ahh, I see what you mean about the spinner - just one point where the pixels don't line up smoothly. Nothing to do but more trial and error til you get it lined up.
The panel lines still seem a bit dark (I notice it more toward the forward section of the aircraft) and I suspect the engine soot is overdone, unless you've got photos or images that indicate it was really that dark.
I see the fuel markers and some warning text has been added - that it a nice touch.
Also, since this aircraft was obviously in German service before converting to Italian service - I wonder if the wing surfaces should show fresher paint where the German insignia was painted over before the Italian insignia was applied. Or maybe show the original crosses just very very faintly to indicate removal by scraping/sanding? I'm not positive how it was done in the field but I would guess they just took some paint and painted over the original insignia, and the paint would not match the original color exactly. They may have even been a little sloppy about it.
Another thing you can add is the shading/shadowing on leading edge of ailerons and elevators. Look at some of the master skinners' 109s for ideas on how to do it. Can be really understated effect that gives the impression of a slightly curved surface on the inner edge of the control surface.
Finally, to really add even more realism you'll want some paint wear, chips and scratches between panel sections, on the leading edge of the wing and stabilizers, around corners of access hatches, etc.
If you look closely at some of the other skins you'll see how much difference this makes when it's well-done.
-
This is a bird repainted for Italian service, right? It might help to know if it was repainted in the field. Most planes repainted did not have these stencils re-applied afterwards.
Also, the fuel triangle only appears on one side, right next to the oval panel line where the fuel is filled. I thought this should be the port side, but best to check a reference to make sure.
I just noticed the fin flash actually wraps forward and the left and right upper corners touch each other. It would be better to move this back about 5 pixels or so so that they 1) don't touch and 2) it looks a bit better-placed on the fin.
-
Krusty you are right about the markings on the top of the wings. The original crosses would be painted out, and the Italian markings painted more towards the tips of the wings. I attached a photo of this plane that was Painted for the game Il2, but it might give a idea of what it looks like.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/Bf-109G-ANR-2Gr5Sqn-(Y1)-Bellagambi/images/AB-Bf-109G6-ANR-2Gr5Sqn-(Y1)-Bellagambi-Italy-1943-V11.jpg)
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/Bf-109G-ANR-2Gr5Sqn-(Y1)-Bellagambi/images/1-Bf-109G14-ANR-2Gr-Y1-Bellagambi-Italy.jpg)
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/Bf-109G-ANR-2Gr5Sqn-(Y1)-Bellagambi/images/1-Bf-109G6-ANR-Bellagambi-Italy.jpg)
Here is a model showing the markings half way over the old crosses. So most likely it will just have to be up to Kazen to figure out what he wants to do with it.
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk173/Oberst_Klink/DSCN1898.jpg)
-
There are the white cross
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8690/italianbf109g14.jpg)
(http://lazycatarts.com/forMUG/Bf_109_DSCF8875.jpg)
Which is correct?
(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/3776/refx.jpg)
-
National insignias are the standard ones for A.N.R. (Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana) aircraft, i.e. four Italian flags on the fuselage and fin plus two German black crosses. On the wing undersurface, the original German crosses were retained to ease identification from ground. No information is available on upper wing marking but, generally speaking, ANR aircraft had two square fasces markings.
It's also worth noting that by this time in the war metal wing under surfaces were left unpainted in order to save paint and labour.
Based on further research done by Ferdinando D'Amico and posted on 150GCT forum on 06/26/2005 it has been found the following:
- 785xxx series concerned G-14/AS, while 464xxx concerned G-14 manufactured by Erla, often with a larger oil tank used on G-10
- Notes left by Capt.Bellagambi mention two "Yellow 1" aircrafts used inl February 1945: the first wasl W.Nr. 464380, later replaced by W.Nr. 785749
- Consequently it now confirmed that aircraft shown in the pictures is W.Nr. 464380.
It is still not confirmed if there was any sign on wing upper surfaces of the aircraft pictured above. What is known is that some of the BF 109 based in Osoppo (Udine) in early 1945 had ANR fasci other had nothing.
In the end, its just going to be up to you on what goes on top of the wing. Being how there is no photo eveidence, at least not what I have found, it just going to be a guessing game on what is there. Hope the above is of some help.
-
ok this version or with the white cross?
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5688/ahss87.jpg)
-
GREAT work! :aok
-
ok this version or with the white cross?
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5688/ahss87.jpg)
Kazan check page 148 and reference plates 282 ~ 286. His was unique, and is referenced in photo's with black outlined style crosses. It appears they have not painted over wing markings yet. Here is some material I copied from one of the ANR books I have, which is from the same book as you posted image of his plane and profile skin.
http://home.comcast.net/~anthem76/scan0001.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~anthem76/scan0001.jpg) Typical white outlined style crosses.
http://home.comcast.net/~anthem76/scan0002.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~anthem76/scan0003.jpg
-
Kazen, How you have it looks pretty darn good to me, I think I would go with that. Only other thing I would say is take the fuel grade placard off the right side, much like what Krusty said if you havent already done so.
-
Thank you for your help and references.
:salute
-
Im all for having skins look as historical as possible, need any help on anything else let me know. :salute
-
Uh, did anybody notice something in those scans?
G-14 without the MW50 installed......
That's a G-6. It would be identical to a G-6 in all but name (it was really the MW50 that gave the later G-14s its boost over the G-6).
-
Krusty, here is what I have found out.
Ferdinando D'Amico interviewed the pilot of this plane Maggiore Mario Bellagambi. And in his transcribed agenda's he wrote the codes and Werke Number of his Squadriglia's Bf109s, and also noted whether each had Methanol injection or not (the scans of the pages are included in Mr. D'Amico's book)...and it was verifid that this reflected with the results of the latest studies on the Bf109G-14 series, many examples of which (mostly Erla-built) didn't have MW50 installed.
In a production planning sheet for Regensburg, dated 4.9.44, of the 2403 Bf109G-14s to be built by them, 835 would be Bf109G-14s, 200 would be G-14s without MW50 and 1368 would be Bf109G-14ASs.
-
That's nice.
My point is our in-game G-14 has MW50. That's why we have it. It is different from the G-6 by a noticable leap in performance on WEP. Off-WEP it's almost identical to the G-6 we have in-game.
You see my point?
The skin would belong to a G-6, if put in-game.
P.S. There are many different configurations and there is some lee-way with which models go on which skins, but IMO no MW-50 is a dealbreaker on the G-14 model.
-
That's a great skin Kazan, you do beautiful work. :aok
BTW I'd have thought the later style canopy would be a more important issue than MW50 WRT which 109 model to skin it on.
-
Well, as I mentioned there are many aspects with various skins and various planes... The hood is one.
However, the near-K4 performance of MW50 is really a game changer to me. The G-14 in-game is closer to the K4 than it is the G6 all along the speed and climb charts.
-
Well, as I mentioned there are many aspects with various skins and various planes... The hood is one.
However, the near-K4 performance of MW50 is really a game changer to me. The G-14 in-game is closer to the K4 than it is the G6 all along the speed and climb charts.
... so?
-
... so?
So.... try to keep up here Eskimo.
The skin belongs to a plane that was a G-6 in all but the canopy (and minor point of the tall tail -- insignificant compared to other changes) but the performance in-game would be much closer to the K-4. It's a mismatch in regards to which plane you put the skin on.
Would you skin a Bf110D on the AH Bf110G? That's the kind of issue at hand.
-
I didn't know that the way the plane looks in game had anything to do with performance.
I doubt it will be switched because Kazan has already put a lot of work into from the look of it.
-
It's simpler than that.... You compare the REAL plane to see what model AH has in-game that would best go with it.
It doesn't match a G14 with MW50 IMO
-
The way I see it, and its MHO, is that this skin is on the correct aircraft. Everything matches a G-14, werk number, reports, even the pilot himself wrote in his diary that it was a G-14. Just because his aircraft wasnt equipped with MW-50 doesnt automatically make it a G-6. If we are playing a game where we want everything as historically as possible, then this skin belongs on the G-14.
The only way I can see this going on the G-6 is if someone can bring up evidence that this aircraft was a G-6 and not a G-14, as not having MW-50 boost doesnt automatically make it a G-6.
-
Would you skin a Bf110D on the AH Bf110G?
Well, if it upsets you this much, I probably would.
-
Well, if it upsets you this much, I probably would.
:lol
-
It's simpler than that.... You compare the REAL plane to see what model AH has in-game that would best go with it.
It doesn't match a G14 with MW50 IMO
Exactly.
-
Wow, really? Why are you people even in this forum? It's not a place for snarky comments.
-
I do not understand what you mean? It was 109g14.
You know how much work needed for a single skin.
This skin dedicated to my friend from Italy.
I have no intention to resign from it.
regards
Kazan
P.S.
Of course, it was a version without MW50
and?
-
I'm loving the skin....I'd wear it! :aok
-
dirt
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3170/ahss88.jpg)
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3479/ahss89.jpg)
-
Looking good. :aok
-
One little gripe. The default skin has that access door (battery compartment?) on the port side of the fuselage too far back. It should be moved forward one section.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/2_152.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/BorgCheckPayment109.jpg)
-
I like it :aok
-
Yeah, I agree, that access door should be moved forward 1 section. Other than that, it is a sharp good looking skin.
-
Done...
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7375/ahss90.jpg)
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/509/ahss91.jpg)
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8728/ahss92.jpg)
Thank you for your help
-
A couple of other comments.
1) You would not have the numbers going down the side of the port fuselage like that. Those disappeared early on in the war and if at any point the stencilling was painted over in the field or at depot level, they did not put these back on. These started disappearing in 1942 and by 1945 they would almost certainly be absent (I have yet to see a picture of a 1945 Bf109 of any mark with them in place). The only ones they kept for sure were the fuel and oil type triangles, and sometimes the chin cooler warnings. This means the red wing walk demarcations and the "nur hier" markings would also be gone. A number of profile artists tack these on to everything just to make things "interesting" (kind of like how we skinners put rivets and panel lines on ours -- it gives the eye something to look at) but it is inaccurate.
2) You have this little rectangular square panel line up high on the rudder joint. This is not a panel line. It's part of the rudder sticking forward (a counter-balance), I believe. You would need to include this section in any coloring/effects you give the rudder and its hinge joint. You can see this in the book scan posted on page 2 of this thread, it looks like it's the same darker color of the rudder.
3) You moved the fuel filling triangle to the port side, but left the oval filling point (where the fuel goes in!) on the starboard!
4) I still think the panel lines are very heavy and over-stated. Especially so on the monotone undersides. Also I don't think there should be panel lines on the gear covers. There are no effects or anything on these panel lines, they are just solid lines and as such are not subtle (meaning they are more obvious and you have to tone then down)
5) You have these red lines on the flaps. I believe these are intended to be the flap angle markers. Most of those I've seen are black, not red. They also would not be visible when the flaps were up. They are on the rounded part of the hinge, which is underneath the upper wing until the flaps rotate backwards. That way the pilot can look at the wing and see by the markings visible how much flaps he has out. These should probably go, as far as details are concerned.
6) First-aid symbol on the fuselage hatch would be gone. You can see in the pictures posted on page 2. It's another matter of not having the time, or perhaps just not needing to make note (after 5 years people start to remember where things are!)
-
6) First-aid symbol on the fuselage hatch would be gone. You can see in the pictures posted on page 2. It's another matter of not having the time, or perhaps just not needing to make note (after 5 years people start to remember where things are!)
The first aid symbol could well be gone from this particular aircraft but in general, the symbol isn't there only for those who are famillar with the plane. So it is not a matter of remembering but knowing. It could be anyone who is first on the scene of a crash landing for example.