Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: RufusLeaking on October 05, 2010, 09:45:23 PM
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But tonight's Tuesday event was not fun.
No one was talking on channel. Maybe it was my deodorant. I realize check sixes are difficult with the stealth 109s.
The Axis plane set was dominant. In a no icon arena, small, high acceleration planes dominate. For the US birds to see the Axis, one had to get low. Once low, the Axis could work the e advantage. Plus, smaller is hard to see. Half the frikkin US planes had invasion stripes intended to make them easier to see! A nice accelerating bird, the P-38, can be seen for miles in the no icon world.
OK. Come in high, then. They see you up there. You don't see them. They can accelerate and climb to you. Reverse rolls. You see them above you. No way you are going to climb to them.
The only thing that could balance the 109 scourge would be a spit or a hurricane.
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it's camo. i flew a 109 last night, and went after puma44 in his pe40. he blended into the background, just like the 109's can.
in the pee40, i did ok against 109's co-alt low on the deck. in the pee38, not so well, but keeping speed helps.
i don;t know why no one was talking on range, as whenever i go in there, there's ALWAYS someone trying to help. i also realize there's going to be bad nights, just as there's good nights.
i'm truly sorry you didn't enjoy yourself, as this setup sounded to be fun. i'm still at the afb right now.
i don't know how much time you spend in the ava......i haven't got but a few weeks in there. but if you're in there, and need help, do not hesitate to ask me if you see me. i will be more than happy to help, as long as i can.
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I don't find this negative Ruf, it falls under the category of constructive criticism. While we're at it, I have another point to make.
I didn't like the A/C being available at the V-bases. I was really looking forward to some awesome GV combat in the great new town. As it happened though, I only made it to town twice as it seemed that there was an endless train of strike aircraft laying egg after egg.
In fact, I was never killed by another GV and only engaged twice by other GV's.
My point is that the Aircraft should be held to the airbases. That way after they've finished making omelets and return home, we could have a few minutes to do some serious GV fighting.
This is not a whine, as I still had tons of fun.
<S> Melvin
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Constructive criticism gets a fair hearing.
I :salute you.
Truth is, I didn't have as much fun as usual as I was pretty much just cannon fodder for the 109's.
I attributed it to my talent level however. :D
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Constructive criticism gets a fair hearing.
I :salute you.
based on melvins post, possibly sometime in the future, a gv only battle may be a good idea?
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based on melvins post, possibly sometime in the future, a gv only battle may be a good idea?
It's been considered, problem is you exclude all the air to air guys.
Better to find a way to have them coexist.
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Tried going back as an Axis.
Died twice. No kills.
So, maybe I am not as good as I think.
I saw a couple comments on the difficulty of flying solo, or one side not working together. The SA demands in the arena might make wingman tactics more pronounced.
Constructive criticism gets a fair hearing.
I :salute you.
:salute Jimson and the rest of the AvA crew.
Whine over.
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HHMM...maybe if we rotate the pulse modulation on their shields..........
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Planes enabled at the Vbase wasnt such a bad idea to keep the air fight moving quickly. Either disabling ord in the setting or just taking out the ord bunkers would have eliminated the constant barag of bombs. But i totally understand how you could be frustrated.
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Constructive criticism gets a fair hearing.
I :salute you.
Truth is, I didn't have much fun either as cannon fodder for the 109's.
I attributed it to my talent level however. :D
Every scenario that doesn't match plane for plane is going to favor one side or another. I just go to the side with the lower numbers and fly into the fight with my head on fire.
To me.. that's fun.. :D
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Tried going back as an Axis.
Died twice. No kills.
So, maybe I am not as good as I think.
I saw a couple comments on the difficulty of flying solo, or one side not working together. The SA demands in the arena might make wingman tactics more pronounced.
:salute Jimson and the rest of the AvA crew.
Whine over.
don't look at it like that. it is hard in the ava. it's an entirely different ballgame in there. it is fun, and moreso when you get used to the no-icons thing.
my offer stands for you, and anyone else that asks. i'm FAR from perfect, and i may not know much,,,,,yet.......but what i do know, is that i will do whatever is reasonably within my power to help anyone that asks, and is willing to accept my help.
it's how i got good in the main arenas, and it's how i'm gonna get good in here.
my ingame is 1LTCAP. do not hesitate to ask me for help or advice when you see me online. :aok
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Every scenario that doesn't match plane for plane is going to favor one side or another. I just go to the side with the lower numbers and fly into the fight with my head on fire.
To me.. that's fun.. :D
I agree.
Got a little frustrated though when my kill ratio was about 1-40. I'm usually slightly better than that. :lol
Guess it wasn't my night.
Call me crazy, but I'd still rather lose in here than win in another arena.
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You're going to notice less talking/check 6's on vox with friendly icons down to combat ranges. By the time you see who is chasing who, the fight is either already being decided or over with both parties travelling at 300+ and trying to find an enemy. Just goes to show, friendly icons at less than 1.5 or 2k is not a good idea where communications is really needed.
I'm glad you brought it up Rufus.
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i understand the frustration of non communication on a side.i was lucky enough to have a good wingman,and also a few of the regulars around me that chatter constantly.i was killed mostly when i strayed away. next time your in there try to wing with someone and express the communication factor :salute
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thanks rufus, that gives me some good idea of what to fix next time. i should've kept the planes out of the Vbases. as close as they were, it wouldve forced more of a GV fight, my mistake.
in the MOTD there were channels that everyone was using, it think thats why the lack of talking. i can tell you there was no shortage of chatter on the Axis side.
next setup i will try to create a more even setup with better distances between bases.
gyrene, i forgot to reset the friendly distance so it stayed at 2.4k.
thank you all for your input! :salute
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Effective communication is key. That is why my squad tuned off 126 early on. There was a lot of chatter, to include one who needed to transmit a play by play of what he was doing. That's fine for inter flight communication, but with upwards of 15 or 16 others on, it comm jams the frequency, leaving it of little use for anyone else. We use Teamspeak and have found it to be the perfect way to talk inter flight. Just some thoughts for consideration.
What a great time tonight. Thanks again to Jaeger for setting it up and of course, Ranger for the map. :aok :salute
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It was a big furball in the middle of air bases which I love. I flew allied. Come in fast, get a kill or two. Eventually get slow on the deck. Practice scissors and eventually die. A slow and low allied plane tended to draw a crowd. I had a much better time this week.
Chog
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It was a big furball in the middle of air bases which I love. I flew allied. Come in fast, get a kill or two. Eventually get slow on the deck. Practice scissors and eventually die. A slow and low allied plane tended to draw a crowd. I had a much better time this week.
Chog
:aok
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I am bummed to hear that anyone didn't have a good time in the AvA last night. It was one of the most enjoyable nights I have had in a long time. The only thing bad was the dirty feeling I got blasting USranger with my 109 directly after installing his outstanding soundpack... :salute all
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:rofl
I imagine that would feel wrong..
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yea i hear ya Skag..my first kill of the night was rangers 51 :(
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I had a good night. Flew with Dicho on my wing in the first sortie and got two in quick succession before I got complacent and got killed.
I shot down more than I was shot down - so that's a win for me.
As an aviation historian by trade, I got a library full of AARs, so I'll post up some ideas for scenarios and then let y'all decide if any are worth pursuing.
J
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:aok we need to wing up again Jherne. In retrospect I should have come back towards the base and stayed on your wing the rest of the night.
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As an aviation historian by trade,
J
As a paying profession? it sounds too cool. More details please.
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I think USAAF is at disadvantage at low altitude. I also get impression that heavy US fighters, although fast, are not quick accelerators compared to 109. Btw don't underestimate the 109, especially the G14. I think the 109G14's performance envelope is like the spit16 minus the spit16's quick roll. G14's WEP is double that of spit 16 in duration (10 minutes?)
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I think USAAF is at disadvantage at low altitude. I also get impression that heavy US fighters, although fast, are not quick accelerators compared to 109. Btw don't underestimate the 109, especially the G14. I think the 109G14's performance envelope is like the spit16 and its WEP is double that of spit16 minus the spit16's quick roll.
you've never flown a pee40, have ya? :devil
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you've never flown a pee40, have ya? :devil
against g14? Then I think I'm hopelessly outclassed :o
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against g14? Then I think I'm hopelessly outclassed :o
to be honest, i don't know what kind of 109's they were sometimes, i didn't know what kind of planes they were, 'cept that they were german.
oh yea...and with me, you're never outclassed........ :noid
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The G-14 was probably a bit much, as they started to appear in the late spring, early summer of 1944. P-38s and P-47s, with a few notable exceptions, were doing more low-level ground work as the P-51s took over long-range escort duties. The B-model Mustangs were certainly spot-on. D-model Mustangs appeared about the same time as the G-14, mid-1944.
The A-5 and A-8 would have been appropriate, as would the 109G-6.
Jimson, to answer your question - I was the Director of the NJ Aviation Hall of Fame and Museum for nearly 10 years. Now, I do consulting to the aircraft restoration community, do pre-restoration airframe evaluations for museums (before they invest huge dollars only to learn they'll never fly their plane again), and I'm a professional model-maker. I have a closed list of clients (they fight over whatever I decide to build), and I do contract work for Lockheed, although that's pretty much dried up with the current administration in the White House.
J
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The G-14 was probably a bit much, as they started to appear in the late spring, early summer of 1944. P-38s and P-47s, with a few notable exceptions, were doing more low-level ground work as the P-51s took over long-range escort duties. The B-model Mustangs were certainly spot-on. D-model Mustangs appeared about the same time as the G-14, mid-1944.
The A-5 and A-8 would have been appropriate, as would the 109G-6.
Jimson, to answer your question - I was the Director of the NJ Aviation Hall of Fame and Museum for nearly 10 years. Now, I do consulting to the aircraft restoration community, do pre-restoration airframe evaluations for museums (before they invest huge dollars only to learn they'll never fly their plane again), and I'm a professional model-maker. I have a closed list of clients (they fight over whatever I decide to build), and I do contract work for Lockheed, although that's pretty much dried up with the current administration in the White House.
J
you're in jersey??
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JHerne,
What do you think about the in game skins in reference to the no icon high visibility aspect of the invasion stripes? Many of the AvA and no icon enthusiasts are thrilled with the immersion challenge of spotting prey and evading becoming easy prey, that loosing the bright red banner (enemy icon) delivers.
From a historical standpoint, I always thought it would add to the experience with a limited planeset, to have skins closely representative of their WW2 counterparts. HTC and the very talented skinners for the game have done an amazing job of providing a good sample of paint schemes for most planes.
For example which Pony B and FW190 A5 skins would also be appropriate (considering the desert setting)?
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The G-14 was probably a bit much, as they started to appear in the late spring, early summer of 1944. P-38s and P-47s, with a few notable exceptions, were doing more low-level ground work as the P-51s took over long-range escort duties. The B-model Mustangs were certainly spot-on. D-model Mustangs appeared about the same time as the G-14, mid-1944.
The A-5 and A-8 would have been appropriate, as would the 109G-6.
Not to nitpick but wasn't fw190a5 already phased out by 1944?
I saw some luftwaffe guncam clips and the most common 190s they used in early 44 were A-6 and A-8s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quPkPvGxtHo
Also 110Gs were still used in '44 (as seen in Die Deutsche Wochenschau)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReDxqiWBf_w&feature=related
some advanced recyclying program they have here :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4UVXSGpSh8&feature=related
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Cap - I was in NJ for almost 16 years - lived in Morris County (Rockaway/Denville) and commuted to Teterboro everyday on I-80. In Wisconsin now - around here a traffic jam is when there's farm tractor on the road (one of those monster dual-wheeled beasts that's so big it can't pull over!).
A-5s were still operational in early-to-mid 1944, but they were certainly supplanted by later variants. Gotta remember, only the A-6 and A-8 saw any serious production numbers after the A-5. It was hard to place a specific date set on this particular scenario because we had overlaps in the planeset - no one's fault, we simply didn't have the specific variants to make it all-inclusive.
The 190A-5 was relatively common in the middle part of 1943, supplanted by the A-6 in the fall, and the A-8 in early 1944. Most of these earlier airframes were hand-me-downs as newer airframes arrived, or eventually, relegated to training units.
As to the skins, with any historical scenario, you have two choices, develop a multi-aircraft scenario around the aircraft you have available and not worry about the skins, or narrow the aircraft choices and try to find specific skins that represent groups that met in combat. Its not an easy task unless you have a knowledge of specific unit histories or have access to that information.
As it applies to the game, I love having to determine if that black spec is a friend or foe. It adds an element to the game that is far more realistic than a red tag hovering overhead, and telling me how close he really is. It also gives you a few more seconds in pressing the attack, especially if you don't use tracers (I switch them on and off depending on what I'm flying). At least in AvA, you know what planeset is available and you can make your decisions based largely on the wing profile or shape of the aircraft. At least in my case, by the time I'm close enough to make out the color scheme, I've already determined what kind of aircraft I'm facing...errr...getting shot down by! :salute
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At least in my case, by the time I'm close enough to make out the color scheme, I've already determined what kind of aircraft I'm facing...errr...getting shot down by! :salute
dont think you have a monopoly on that! im still pulling lead out of my butt!
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But tonight's Tuesday event was not fun.
No one was talking on channel. Maybe it was my deodorant. I realize check sixes are difficult with the stealth 109s.
The Axis plane set was dominant. In a no icon arena, small, high acceleration planes dominate. For the US birds to see the Axis, one had to get low. Once low, the Axis could work the e advantage. Plus, smaller is hard to see. Half the frikkin US planes had invasion stripes intended to make them easier to see! A nice accelerating bird, the P-38, can be seen for miles in the no icon world.
OK. Come in high, then. They see you up there. You don't see them. They can accelerate and climb to you. Reverse rolls. You see them above you. No way you are going to climb to them.
The only thing that could balance the 109 scourge would be a spit or a hurricane.
I agree 100%~ hurri c's and spits destroy 109s in the AvA. All the US planes are suited for high alt high speed bnz attacks~ which are extremely hard to execute with the cammo against the terrain w no icons. It was fun though, and you can always reup
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I agree 100%~ hurri c's and spits destroy 109s in the AvA. All the US planes are suited for high alt high speed bnz attacks~ which are extremely hard to execute with the cammo against the terrain w no icons. It was fun though, and you can always reup
yep....bnz....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasept20closemerge.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avap40.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasept20.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/dufess-3.jpg)
get outta that jug.....or learn to turn it........but do that before you claim american iron can only bnz.
get with mace or rodent. they;ll help ya.
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yep....bnz....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasept20closemerge.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avap40.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasept20.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/dufess-3.jpg)
get outta that jug.....or learn to turn it........but do that before you claim american iron can only bnz.
get with mace or rodent. they;ll help ya.
Yeah, showing pics of US planes zooming down on axis planes, really makes my point, thank you. I was just agreeing with your pal grumpy when the said the exact same thing to me. US planes are generally outclassed in that AvA scenario. With a face full of cannon german planes go for the ho a lot more often too and win with one 30mm ping. Duh, Its going to take a P40 a lot more hits to do the same damage. P-38s did what they did in the Pacific not by turning on the deck with Zeeks and all the Jug aces in the ETO followed the same guidelines at high altitude, not turning on the deck w a bunch of 109s. Rodent or Mace would be the first to say: "Stay fast".
I know you are just trying to be contrary with me like you always do. If it was Grumpy that posted the comment I'm sure you would be the first provide a page full of pics to back him up.
Still nice pictures though, keep them coming and we can modify the captions to suit any argument you like.
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yep....bnz....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasept20closemerge.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avap40.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avasept20.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/dufess-3.jpg)
get outta that jug.....or learn to turn it........but do that before you claim american iron can only bnz.
get with mace or rodent. they;ll help ya.
Yeah, showing pics of US planes zooming down on axis planes, really makes my point, thank you. I was just agreeing with your pal grumpy when the said the exact same thing to me. US planes are generally outclassed in that AvA scenario. With a face full of cannon german planes go for the ho a lot more often too and win with one 30mm ping. Duh, Its going to take a P40 a lot more hits to do the same damage. P-38s did what they did in the Pacific not by turning on the deck with Zeeks and all the Jug aces in the ETO followed the same guidelines at high altitude, not turning on the deck w a bunch of 109s. Rodent or Mace would be the first to say: "Stay fast".
I know you are just trying to be contrary with me like you always do. If it was Grumpy that posted the comment I'm sure you would be the first provide a page full of pics to back him up.
Still nice pictures though, keep them coming and we can modify the captions to suit any argument you like.
you think those pics show me zooming? i'm below the 110, flaps are out in the pee40 as i'm coming through my turn......i might've been high speed against that fw.........but then i'm not saddled up on him yet.
i think there's plenty of pile-its here that will attest to my lack of bnz flying/fighting style......both here, and int he regular arenas.
mace and rodent may tell you to stay fast......but i'd be willing to bet that they can teach you stuff about that pee47 that you've got no clue about.
EDIT><
i just looked at the name of that pic against the fw....that was some guy that tried to sneak up on me whilst i kilt that kruger nutball in his bee17's.
i had no alt, speed, or e advantages over that fw either. if i had taken that shot from a different angle, you'd also see the missing rudder.
so ya....there was no bnz on my part............ :devil
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Yeah, showing pics of US planes zooming down on axis planes, really makes my point, thank you. I was just agreeing with your pal grumpy when the said the exact same thing to me. US planes are generally outclassed in that AvA scenario. With a face full of cannon german planes go for the ho a lot more often too and win with one 30mm ping.
It's worth giving the US planes some extra time, Seadog. The P-47 turns pretty well against the 109s, although it can't keep up with them in a climb. Just about everything the US has is superior to the 190A8 (never could figure that out, it certainly doesn't match anecdotal historical accounts) in any kind of a fight (except jousts). The P-38 v 109 is one of the classic best fights AH2 has to offer, and even the 51B, making clever use of its flaps, is a fearsome opponent down low.
There is also this: AvA has a lot of dedicated 109 pilots who have practiced with it for extended periods. You're coming up against some quality talent anytime you fly Allied. (Note that people who are flying a 109 and going for the HO probably are not in this category.)
Rufe: Don't forget that you can grab a skin that doesn't have invasion stripes for nearly any US plane.
- oldman
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I agree 100%~ hurri c's and spits destroy 109s in the AvA.
Hope 190s are not around :noid
I think i've seen this scenario before... In teamed format standard luft tactic is for for 109s to dance with allied aircraft vertically, and while they're hanging vertically 190s come and pick horizontally (that's if 109 can't kill it)
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190's and 110's spraying cannon everywhere :confused:
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It's worth giving the US planes some extra time, Seadog. The P-47 turns pretty well against the 109s, although it can't keep up with them in a climb. Just about everything the US has is superior to the 190A8 (never could figure that out, it certainly doesn't match anecdotal historical accounts) in any kind of a fight (except jousts). The P-38 v 109 is one of the classic best fights AH2 has to offer, and even the 51B, making clever use of its flaps, is a fearsome opponent down low.
There is also this: AvA has a lot of dedicated 109 pilots who have practiced with it for extended periods. You're coming up against some quality talent anytime you fly Allied. (Note that people who are flying a 109 and going for the HO probably are not in this category.)
Rufe: Don't forget that you can grab a skin that doesn't have invasion stripes for nearly any US plane.
- oldman
bolded.....so THAT'S why i can't keep my pee38 in one piece!!
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Just about everything the US has is superior to the 190A8 (never could figure that out, it certainly doesn't match anecdotal historical accounts) in any kind of a fight (except jousts).
I think that plane was really meant for jousting. It can't even turn tighter than a 110g in this game :joystick:
Jousting and shoot & scoot is how they excelled in the russian front, and chuck yeager's p51 was shot down in a joust :airplane:
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is it my imagination, or is there a lot of bait floating around in the waters?
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^^^^ What Oldman said.......
Last night I was able to wrangle Oldman into a turnfight, me in 109 and he in 47. Let me tell you, in the hands of a good stick the 47 will turn with the 109 all day. (Saw it with my own eyes.)
Another thing that I saw with my own eyes, is the ability for a 38 to be a deadly bird to the hapless 109 jock that takes them for granted. (Just ask any of those fork-tailed devil drivers. Oh wait, i guess that's what's happening here.)
Furthermore, I rarely flew the P-40 before I was forced to in the AvA. (Side balancing is a good thing.) What I found was a big, beautiful 109 killer. I enjoyed a higher than expected level of success on the deck. ( Considering my limited skills.) Those 50's rip heck outta anything they touch. (Watch the convergance.... I found it very crucial to get that right.) Big 'ol engine, tons of guns and hard to knock down.....I love it.
I understand that these are mere antectdotes from a noob with a limited skillset, but I'm just calling it the way I saw it. Have fun and :cheers:
<S> Melvin
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^^^^ What Oldman said.......
Last night I was able to wrangle Oldman into a turnfight, me in 109 and he in 47. Let me tell you, in the hands of a good stick the 47 will turn with the 109 all day. (Saw it with my own eyes.)
Another thing that I saw with my own eyes, is the ability for a 38 to be a deadly bird to the hapless 109 jock that takes them for granted. (Just ask any of those fork-tailed devil drivers. Oh wait, i guess that's what's happening here.)
Furthermore, I rarely flew the P-40 before I was forced to in the AvA. (Side balancing is a good thing.) What I found was a big, beautiful 109 killer. I enjoyed a higher than expected level of success on the deck. ( Considering my limited skills.) Those 50's rip heck outta anything they touch. (Watch the convergance.... I found it very crucial to get that right.) Big 'ol engine, tons of guns and hard to knock down.....I love it.
I understand that these are mere antectdotes from a noob with a limited skillset, but I'm just calling it the way I saw it. Have fun and :cheers:
<S> Melvin
i've never flown a pee47, so i can't comment on that part.......although i do know that anything can be made to turn well if flown properly. that's why i told sd to get with mace and/or rodent.....to help him learn it.
as for the rest of what you said....you're spot on , :aok
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Rufe: Don't forget that you can grab a skin that doesn't have invasion stripes for nearly any US plane.
And I did. Axis seem to have better camo, which makes sense as, historically, shiny Allied planes were strafing the heck out of them.
I hate to put a gamey thought out there, but can't an individual disable other players skins, making them default?
Last night I was able to wrangle Oldman into a turnfight, me in 109 and he in 47. Let me tell you, in the hands of a good stick the 47 will turn with the 109 all day. (Saw it with my own eyes.)
The advantage of the 109 is not turning. It has small size and excellent acceleration. Given that being low makes acquiring a visual on higher targets much easier, acceleration (or the ability to gain and maintain energy) is huge.
A "good stick" 109 guy will get the 47 down low and slow, extend out, pick up energy and work the jug into a stall, or run him down. The 47 would be left with snap shots at a zooming 109. Effective, but dull.
US planes, for the most part, don't accelerate as well as the German planes, are bigger (easier to see) and have less effective camo options.
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I've seen a few guys that can make a P-47 dance. Shane used to then again Shane used to get the most out of anything he flew. I got in a good fight with Oldman a few months ago I was in a P-47D11 I believe he was in a 109G2. I fought him as hard as I could and was close to putting the bird in the dirt to force an overshoot. He never fell for it and ended up winning. Then I came up against Bug twice while he was in a 109 and got spanked instantly. Considering the alt most of the fights take place in the AVA if your in a P-47 it helps to see the enemy first or have a wingman... At least at my skill level.
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And I did. Axis seem to have better camo, which makes sense as, historically, shiny Allied planes were strafing the heck out of them.
I hate to put a gamey thought out there, but can't an individual disable other players skins, making them default?
The advantage of the 109 is not turning. It has small size and excellent acceleration. Given that being low makes acquiring a visual on higher targets much easier, acceleration (or the ability to gain and maintain energy) is huge.
A "good stick" 109 guy will get the 47 down low and slow, extend out, pick up energy and work the jug into a stall, or run him down. The 47 would be left with snap shots at a zooming 109. Effective, but dull.
US planes, for the most part, don't accelerate as well as the German planes, are bigger (easier to see) and have less effective camo options.
i think that early in the war, USAAF aircraft were painted olive drab. the british versions had camo. it was later in the war when we decided to leave them in the metal finish.
that small size and light weight of the 109 can be used against it just as easily as its pile-it can use it in his favor.
remember, p-factor, and engine torque are modeled fairly nicely in here.
i've not flown the 109 enough to know how to use it in my favor, but the pee40 has given me a couple of nice shots, thanks to engine torque rolling me more rapidly than the controls could at those particular moments.......
in fact.....look at the pic below.....
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/avaclosecall-1.jpg)
i nearly got a shot on that 109. it was dichotomy, trying to be sneeky. :devil i had just popped a 190, and was stalling. i firewalled the throttle, and the torque put me here, rather than giving him a nice easy shot at me. :devil
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I understand that these are mere antectdotes from a noob with a limited skillset
Right. Melvin, I believe it's still true that I have never shot you down in all of our encounters.
- oldman
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The standard color scheme for US Fighters was olive drab over neutral gray. This was considered my most to be the most effective overall camouflage color since no one could guarantee what type of terrain these aircraft would operate over. OD in the South Pacific was effective at low levels, over Italy, not so much.
The US switch from OD to natural metal came about as a result of three things happening - pilots learning that aircraft stripped of paint and polished were faster, the overall high altitude in which escorts were operating, and the overall air superiority the Allies achieved shortly after D-Day. That's not to say that the Luftwaffe rolled over on its back and wet the floor, quite the contrary. But with the exception of Bodenplatte at the end of the year, the Luftwaffe never really mounted large-scale offensive operations against the Allies.
Fighter camo in the desert regions was largely based on RAF doctrine of Dark Earth and Midstone over Sky Type S or Duck Egg Blue. Remember too, that many of the P-40s that were rushed to North Africa for the Torch Landings were originally intended to go to the RAF. I have photos somewhere showing P-40s on the assembly line with RAF markings being painted out with a star and roundel.
D-Day stripes were an anomaly - they were intended to be temporary. Most squadrons, especially those involved in escort and fighter sweep duties, lost their stripes with a few months of the order. Some retained them longer. A few removed the stripes on the upper sides and kept them on the bottom, since the Allies now had a large ground contingent on the Continent. Prior to that, getting shot at by your own flak wasn't a big deal - there was none prior to the invasion.
Overall, the Luftwaffe exercised very little control over the use of camouflage on its aircraft, especially day fighters. That's why I have 4 or 5 books on US camo doctrine and more than 60 on Luftwaffe colors in my library! Luftwaffe camouflage practices are a science within itself, especially when you start looking at the 1944-45 period of time when RLM 80, 81, and 82 were introduced, and the subsequent usage of those colors in conjunction with the earlier RLM 74, 75 colors.
Luftwaffe desert camo is surprisingly a bit more simple. When JG27 arrived in North Africa, they actually painted out their 109s in Italian stocks, as RLM 79 hadn't been delivered to the front. In most cases, you'll see JG27 aircraft carrying a motte pattern of RLM 71 or RLM 02 over Italian Sand, a few months later, photos will show these same aircraft carrying RLM 71 or 02 over RLM 79. Unlike their Regia Aeronautica allies, German camo patterns ranged from overall sand, to motte (soft spots), waves, and splinter patterns.
J
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JHerne, have you ever considered getting into the skinning business. With your history and modeling background, it would seem to be an easy accomplishment for you (if you have the time available). Just a thought. :salute
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The US switch from OD to natural metal came about as a result of three things happening - pilots learning that aircraft stripped of paint and polished were faster, the overall high altitude in which escorts were operating, and the overall air superiority the Allies achieved shortly after D-Day.
:salute
A great thing about these forums is that there are a lot of history enthusiasts. Good stuff.
High altitude is a disadvantage when searching the sky for dots in a no icon environment. Overall air superiority is not (and shouldn't be) modeled in the AvA, or any AH arena for that matter. Two of three reasons from real life do not apply in the game.
JHerne, have you ever considered getting into the skinning business. With your history and modeling background, it would seem to be an easy accomplishment for you (if you have the time available). Just a thought. :salute
I've said it before and I'll say it again: AH skinners are artists.
I often go F3, F8 mode on the ground and do a 360 around my plane, zooming in and out. It is not unusual to pick a plane based on the paint job. Both P-40's in AVG markings have the cool teeth.
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Actually Puma, I did a couple awhile ago that I never finished...
Someone asked for a P-38L in OD. I managed to find one and started it...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/jherne/OD_38L.jpg)
Then I was asked to do a skin of a P-47...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/jherne/BO-2.jpg)
I did my own version of BigAssBirdII, but someone ended up doing a better version so I dropped it...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/jherne/BAB-2.jpg)
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High altitude is a disadvantage when searching the sky for dots in a no icon environment.
I disagree Rufus, but then I haven't spent as much time in there as you have recently. As it is, it generally takes me a good hour to get re-accustomed to the settings and I get "surprised" a lot in that time. But I mostly operate between 5k and 7k alt unless I start seeing people higher. I use the rudder when checking my six high or low and it's a very rare occasion when someone can climb up from my low six without me knowing they were there, usually happens when I'm focused on acquiring a target.
The only time a low dot gets lost is when it's below 2k and running over trees, even then unless it's not getting rendered at all on my screen, something about the association with the default skin makes some dots easier to spot even over the ground clutter. It's one of those little things that makes you rub your eyes, clean your monitor, then do a double take...but it is noticeable.
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I disagree Rufus, but then I haven't spent as much time in there as you have recently. As it is, it generally takes me a good hour to get re-accustomed to the settings and I get "surprised" a lot in that time. But I mostly operate between 5k and 7k alt unless I start seeing people higher. I use the rudder when checking my six high or low and it's a very rare occasion when someone can climb up from my low six without me knowing they were there, usually happens when I'm focused on acquiring a target.
The only time a low dot gets lost is when it's below 2k and running over trees, even then unless it's not getting rendered at all on my screen, something about the association with the default skin makes some dots easier to spot even over the ground clutter. It's one of those little things that makes you rub your eyes, clean your monitor, then do a double take...but it is noticeable.
spotting anything co=alt is a thousand times easier than spotting them when looking down against the ground.
up high, you can still see the dot about 5 miles out, just like you can in the other arenas....you just don't have that big neon sign yelling "here i am!!"