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General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Fulmar on October 11, 2010, 06:48:53 PM

Title: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 11, 2010, 06:48:53 PM
Looking for some input and what may be the better upgrade option currently (for gaming).  Coming up on the 4 year mark on my current build and usually thats when I sit down and build a new one.  1999, 2003, 2007....2011.  But at the 4 year mark I really haven't had too much in performance concerns for me to warrant a new build.  At least for what I'm playing.

Currently:
Win7 64bit
C2D E6400 Allendale @ 2.8ghz
4gb ddr2 800
Geforce 8800 GTS 640mb

I'm looking at $100-$130 range on this temporary upgrade, but I'm kind of stuck on the two upgrades I want.  On my current motherboard I can go the E8xxx Wolfdale route on CPUs, but they're quite pricey.  But I can also use the other E6xxx Wolfdales as well and overclock.

E6700 Wolfdate (stock 3.2ghz, would probably take it to 3.8ghz) is $95
or
Geforce GTS 450 is $130

Haven't touch AH in a while, but she did a pretty good job on the new graphics updates the last time I check (could be a bit better).  But pretty much play L4D2 which at med/high at 1680x1050 is a low of 45 FPS.  Eve, really doesnt tax my system at all.  Mafia 2 ran all right.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: BaldEagl on October 11, 2010, 07:17:42 PM
I'd go with the video card.  You can swap that into your next build which won't be likely with the CPU.  Plus, you're further behind in the GPU chip than in the CPU chip generationally.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: TilDeath on October 11, 2010, 07:34:14 PM
I agree with Bald.  I would get the best video card I can afford and move it into your 4 year build.  If you overlook the 450 and get a little better card you have the option of having it for your next build.

TD
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: MonkGF on October 12, 2010, 08:27:33 AM
Video card. Your next big CPU upgrade would be to the Core iX series (3,5,7) which is more than you want to spend, so upgrade the video card for now. Double-check power supply though before doing so.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Chalenge on October 12, 2010, 04:31:37 PM
A change to the 1156 or 1366 sockets is a big hit on the pockets. You can probably get another few years out of this MB if it can handle the E8400-E8600s. Can it SLI? How big is your PSU?

The reason I ask is to consider what the future is bringing. And so that you are better informed: The Fermi cards that we have now will be replaced come fall of next year (with Nvidia they will probably be late and it will be Spring of 2012). If they follow through and produce something in line with their intention the 600 series will be more than twice as powerful as the 400s. A year after that (projected spring of 2013 so probably fall 2013) will be the 800 series which will be three times more powerful still. If I was in your shoes I would go for the 460 line and follow that up with a CPU later and then possibly a second 460 in SLI (460s in SLI out perform the 480 in most cases and costs less). Thats where you run into the question of SLI and PSU. And of course Ati (if you lean that way) will probably have similar plans.

(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/nvroadmap.png)
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 12, 2010, 07:06:03 PM
I'm kind of leaning towards the GPU.  As to you Chalenge, SLI on my current rig isn't really cost effective.  

My Mobo is the Asus P5NE-SLI http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131142

I'd have to upgrade my PSU to support SLI and with this motherboard, SLI is limited to 8x, otherwise its 16x for a single card.  Additionally its PCI-E 1.0.  So we're getting into bottleneck territory.  When it comes to a build, I like to do $1000-$1200 when it comes to that time, but nothing is getting me to that point right now.  The GPU makes more sense based on that I can use it in the next system, whenever that is.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: cattb on October 12, 2010, 07:33:48 PM
I have noticed prices coming down the last three months or so, have patience christmas is coming and you may pick up a good deal on what you prefer. I am thinking of upgrading my video card myself. Due to RL issues I havn't played a PC game in a few months. I am thinking of a 460 or a5800 series ATI card, I now have a 8800gt.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Chalenge on October 13, 2010, 01:39:15 AM
I'm kind of leaning towards the GPU.  As to you Chalenge, SLI on my current rig isn't really cost effective.  

My Mobo is the Asus P5NE-SLI http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131142

I'd have to upgrade my PSU to support SLI and with this motherboard, SLI is limited to 8x, otherwise its 16x for a single card.  Additionally its PCI-E 1.0.  So we're getting into bottleneck territory.  When it comes to a build, I like to do $1000-$1200 when it comes to that time, but nothing is getting me to that point right now.  The GPU makes more sense based on that I can use it in the next system, whenever that is.

Your running less than 600 Watts?

Thats another misunderstood variable in motherboards (the PCIe channel). I fell into the same belief and bought out of the P5NE board last year. While it is true that the best approach is two x16 slots the performance difference with that and one x16 and one x8 is not substantial. In fact if two 460s in SLI went below the performace of a 480 I would be shocked (that could probably only happen on a really cheap MB). The main problem with the P5NE is the memory sockets which will not run stable with all four slots occupied. And concerning PCIe 1.0 versus 2.0 the bandwidth of current video cards does not approach anything like filling 1.0 and of course not 2.0 either. If anything you will eventually be CPU bound.

My point was to suggest for you to keep an eye toward the more popular (and available) 460s so you could pick one up later if you are inclined in that direction.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Dragon on October 13, 2010, 09:22:24 AM
I'm kind of leaning towards the GPU.  As to you Chalenge, SLI on my current rig isn't really cost effective.  

My Mobo is the Asus P5NE-SLI http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131142

I'd have to upgrade my PSU to support SLI and with this motherboard, SLI is limited to 8x, otherwise its 16x for a single card.  Additionally its PCI-E 1.0.  So we're getting into bottleneck territory.  When it comes to a build, I like to do $1000-$1200 when it comes to that time, but nothing is getting me to that point right now.  The GPU makes more sense based on that I can use it in the next system, whenever that is.


I have that board with 6750 overclocked a bit and a 9800GTX+ 1 GB.  Comp crunches anything I throw at it even with only 2 GB RAM and running Vista.


+4 on upgrading your VC first.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: columbus on October 13, 2010, 10:33:23 AM
+5 on the video card. shop around get the best value/perfomance card
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: guncrasher on October 13, 2010, 03:02:18 PM
i bought my 465 2 months ago and prices have gone down $40.  I would wait till xmas, i wish i had.

semp
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 13, 2010, 04:58:56 PM
Your running less than 600 Watts?

Thats another misunderstood variable in motherboards (the PCIe channel). I fell into the same belief and bought out of the P5NE board last year. While it is true that the best approach is two x16 slots the performance difference with that and one x16 and one x8 is not substantial. In fact if two 460s in SLI went below the performace of a 480 I would be shocked (that could probably only happen on a really cheap MB). The main problem with the P5NE is the memory sockets which will not run stable with all four slots occupied. And concerning PCIe 1.0 versus 2.0 the bandwidth of current video cards does not approach anything like filling 1.0 and of course not 2.0 either. If anything you will eventually be CPU bound.

My point was to suggest for you to keep an eye toward the more popular (and available) 460s so you could pick one up later if you are inclined in that direction.

I am running 600 watts.  I don't have the worlds greatest PSU in there, but I'm at 4 years without any problems.  I'm more upgrade now guy rather than later.  Unless we're talking about a completely new generation of product coming out in 2 months, you can play the waiting game forever.  "It'll be cheaper come XXXX" or "Wait until the XXXXX comes out."  But by that time come around, guess whats down the road? 
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Chalenge on October 13, 2010, 08:18:52 PM
I understand of course but I wanted to let you know whats coming and so on. A single 460 wont allow all the max settings in AH (not without a potential "AcesHigh.exe has stopped working" message) but it will get pretty close. If the game load goes up in the future you might be able to run two cards (depending on your +12V rail wattage) but before then you will probably want more CPU.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 13, 2010, 08:54:23 PM
Without pulling the side off the case I believe it split across 4 rails IIRC and last time I calculated the amperage the only SLI I could do on it was on low end cards.  I never bought the motherboard in the first place based off its SLI support, right price and right other features at the time.  TBO, never been disappointed with any of the Asus boards I've run in the past, just don't buy their cheaper ones.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: columbus on October 13, 2010, 10:50:46 PM
Without pulling the side off the case I believe it split across 4 rails IIRC and last time I calculated the amperage the only SLI I could do on it was on low end cards.  I never bought the motherboard in the first place based off its SLI support, right price and right other features at the time.  TBO, never been disappointed with any of the Asus boards I've run in the past, just don't buy their cheaper ones.
+1
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Chalenge on October 13, 2010, 11:40:18 PM
Its a good MB with the one exception of not being able to use all four memory slots or at least not at 800 Mhz (I think it would go at 667Mhz).

Nothing wrong with buying more PSU at some point because they can always move along to the next system. Improving one component at a time is an excellent strategy.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 14, 2010, 05:31:45 PM
You can use all slots at 800mhz.  I used to run 4 x 1 gb 800mhz chips on it until I needed to build my wife a new computer.  She got my old ram and I went with 2 x 2gb chips with faster timings.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Chalenge on October 14, 2010, 06:37:16 PM
When I tried to run 4x2GB the MB would only stabilize at 667 Mhz and when I asked about it at Asus Support they told me it would not run stable at 800 Mhz with all four slots populated.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 26, 2010, 07:40:57 PM
I spent a gift card and got a GTS 450.  Ran 3dMark06, before an after.  Results:

My PC Before (Win7 Pro 64 bit):
C2D E6400 @ 2.8ghz / 4gb ddr2 800mhz / Geforce 8800 GTS 640mb
9,425

My PC After w/ GTS 450:
11,459

My Wife's PC Before (Win XP Pro SP3 32bit)
Athlon II 435 stock 2.9ghz / 3.25gb ddr2 800mhz / ATI Radeon 4200HD Onbard (128mb + 512mb shared)
1,624

My Wife's PC After w/ 8800 GTS:
10,605

For the $50 I got the card for after some gift cards, I'll take the slight increase.  Goes to show the processor is aging, at least in benchmarks.  Plus she needed a video card anyways.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Tigger29 on October 26, 2010, 07:48:32 PM
That's what I did a few months ago.  I upgraded from a 9800GTX+ to a ATI5830... and as a result my g/f upgraded from a 9500GT to a 9800GTX+.  Also, her father upgraded from an old FX5200 to a 9500GT (along with a new processor, motherboard, ram, power supply, and case).

So in my case it was a win, win, win situation!

Not that the 5830 was a huge improvement over the 9800GTX+, but it is noticeable.. I'd say about 20-25% or so.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 26, 2010, 08:42:04 PM
Yeah, that FX series for nvidia was horrible.  The 5950 was the only half-way good card during that era.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: BaldEagl on October 26, 2010, 11:37:45 PM
I'm a little surprised you didn't get a bigger bump than that but ~20%'s not bad.

As opposed to showing the CPU's age your results might be showing just how well the 8800 series video cards are holding up.  I've seen no need to upgrade my 8800 GTS 512.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 27, 2010, 03:24:55 AM
I'm a little surprised you didn't get a bigger bump than that but ~20%'s not bad.

As opposed to showing the CPU's age your results might be showing just how well the 8800 series video cards are holding up.  I've seen no need to upgrade my 8800 GTS 512.

The 5830 is the low-end budget model, it's comparable to 4870 in speed. 5 = generation 8 = chipset type 3 = product category (low-mid-high) 0 = subcategory.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Fulmar on October 27, 2010, 05:13:09 PM
I'm a little surprised you didn't get a bigger bump than that but ~20%'s not bad.

As opposed to showing the CPU's age your results might be showing just how well the 8800 series video cards are holding up.  I've seen no need to upgrade my 8800 GTS 512.
The GTS 450 was about 1/3 of what I spent on my 8800 GTS 640 Jan '07.
Title: Re: Two Upgrade options
Post by: Tigger29 on October 27, 2010, 06:54:39 PM
Yes ripley is correct.. the 5830 is the 'low end' of the Eyefinity series... but it still outperforms the 9800GTX+ so that only shows how much of an improvement the HIGHER end cards are!

Looking back I wish I would have held out for at least the 5850, but I really can't complain...