Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: redman555 on October 18, 2010, 04:04:54 PM
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Ok, so I have to write a Research paper for my English Prof.... I decided to do it on the evolution of automatic weapons. In your opinions what are the main automatic weapons I should focus on(that made the biggest change in warfare)?
Atm I am thinking of these:
Gatling gun
Maxim gun
MG42
Thompson
BAR
AK-47
M16A1
M2 .50 cal
Do you guys think their is anything else I should do it on or any of those I should take off?
Appreciate any opinions.
-BigBOBCH
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BAR? AK?
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BAR?
I was considering that, the problem is I only have 6-9 pages double spaced, so I cant have to many guns. Ah the AK, totally had brain fart on that one.
-BigBOBCH
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The Vickers is superfluous in that group, as is the M-4, which is merely an M-16 variant. You left out the longest serving machine gun in the history of armed warfare, the Browning M2 50 caliber. You also left out the first true squad automatic weapon, the Browning Automatic Rifle.
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The Vickers is superfluous in that group, as is the M-4, which is merely an M-16 variant. You left out the longest serving machine gun in the history of armed warfare, the Browning M2 50 caliber. You also left out the first true squad automatic weapon, the Browning Automatic Rifle.
So, I should kick the M4A1 out and put M2 and B.A.R in? And again I was gonna put the B.A.R but worried length wise, cause only have a max of 9 pages.
-BigBOBCH
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MG-42
M-60
Hispano 20mm :rock
Uzi
Mk-19 Grenade launcher :rock :rock
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Id start with the earliest models, thought concept behind them, how they worked, then work my way up to the Gatlin gun or what ever the newest one you like best is. Yes you may be able to right a ton about newer machine guns but your paper isn't going to flow at all.
Just basing that off of your list I have no idea what you planned on doing.
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Don't forget this!
(http://reocities.com/Pentagon/2833/heer/infantry/mp43stg44/mp43stg44n1.jpg)
What you see is the Sturmgewehr 44. This design was responsible for pave way to the momst popular assault rifle ever in the history of the world... the AK47
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MG-42
M-60
Hispano 20mm :rock
Lol, see again the problem is I have to pick the ones that made the BIGGEST effect on warfare......I cant do 20 guns like I wish I could because of the max 9 pages.
I mean I can see myself getting almost a page on the Gatling gun ALONE, if not more lol.
-BigBOBCH
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I think the M134 might deserve mention:
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/imgs/m134.jpg)
Dillon mini gun, it definitely shows the progress from the original Gatling gun to what an automatic weapon can be today.
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I'd add the AK47, MP40, and M2 to the list, and remove the M4 and Vickers, since they're redundant, in a sense. Virgil had the same train of thought about that.
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Id start with the earliest models, thought concept behind them, how they worked, then work my way up to the Gatlin gun or what ever the newest one you like best is. Yes you may be able to right a ton about newer machine guns but your paper isn't going to flow at all.
Just basing that off of your list I have no idea what you planned on doing.
Well yeah, I wasnt going to just start right off the bat with Gatling gun, I am going to talk about how guns were used before that and so forth.
-BigBOBCH
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M2 .50 cal, BAR, and MG42. only things I see missing.
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The biggest change in warfare? The machine guns used in WW1 (Maxim?). The technology outpaced the tactics, resulting in extremely high infantry death rates and static front lines.
The AK-47 gets an honorable mention due to its reliability and availability. It is going to be in widespread use for another hundred years.
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The M-60, as well as the German machine guns, were not innovative. The most innovative thing about the German machine guns was the rate of fire, and given that it forced you to swap barrels, it was as much a hindrance as it was innovative. The M-60 is not that great a weapon, and it never has been. Like the M-16, it was originally a problematic weapon that after much refinement became a decent weapon.
The most innovative German automatic, with the longest lasting effects, was probably their assault rifle, which was the first. There were submachine guns around before the German examples, their most innovative quality was their weight, and lower recoil.
The Dillon is not really innovative, it is more of a refinement. The various GE electric powered rotary cannons were around long before Dillon, with all due respect to Mike Dillon.
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MP-44 Sturmgewehr is needed the FIRST assault rifle it used a revolutionary intermediate round between rifle and pistol had plastic parts the whole shebang. It was the best weapon of its time.
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MP-44 for sure
Thompson
Gatling gun for its revolutionary concept (no pun intended) you can incorporate its reuse and redesign in modern warfare
BAR
MG33 and MG42
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Just out of curiosity have you checked your subject with your teacher? As mamby pamby as schools are getting these days it wouldn't surprise me if you wrote it and got put on some list and offered 'counseling'.
Not trying to be funny for once.
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Might consider narrowing it down to the ones that really forced change starting with the Maxim. Which of the hand held pistol caliber mgs set that trend. Which rifle caliber automatic was the trend setter. While the Sturmgewehr 44 was the first with the intermediate round, I'm hard pressed not to say that the AK47 really set that ball rolling. Is it fair to say the M-16 was the first of the 'plastic' rifles that sent things in that direction? Does the introduction of the semi-automatic rifle like the Garand warrant inclusion?
Just thinking out loud so to speak although I do think you could shorten your list and expand on fewer weapons that really caused change.
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Gotta cover the STG-44, it was the predecessor to the perfected AK-47 and overall first economicly mass-produced stamped-steel selective-fire-mode single-person assault rifle.
Civil war erra gattling gun and the first browning machine guns of WWI (that were refined into the browning .30 and .50 cals of WWII) should definetley be in the list too.
You can do the M60, which was based off the German WWII (infamous) MG42 and MG34 (which if you do the MG42, you gotta touch on the 34) designs.
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The gun that made the biggest change in warfare was the Maxim.
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A short discussion on modern ammunition could be relevant as well.
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Don't forget this!
(http://reocities.com/Pentagon/2833/heer/infantry/mp43stg44/mp43stg44n1.jpg)
What you see is the Sturmgewehr 44. This design was responsible for pave way to the momst popular assault rifle ever in the history of the world... the AK47
Despite some claiming the AK-47 was based at the StG44 (some claim the gas system and layout was influenced by the StG44) but Kalashnikov himself as disputed this. According to him, his influence in designing the original AK was the SKS (which he lost to in an earlier design competition), M1 Garand/Carbine (trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway) and the Remington Model 8 (safety mechanism).
ack-ack
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Just out of curiosity have you checked your subject with your teacher? As mamby pamby as schools are getting these days it wouldn't surprise me if you wrote it and got put on some list and offered 'counseling'.
Not trying to be funny for once.
Haha, yes I did he said it was fine. I took same prof as I did last semester. He didnt mind, im in college not HS btw lol. So not as if im a 12 year old :) lol
-BigBOBCH
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Despite some claiming the AK-47 was based at the StG44 (some claim the gas system and layout was influenced by the StG44) but Kalashnikov himself as disputed this. According to him, his influence in designing the original AK was the SKS (which he lost to in an earlier design competition), M1 Garand/Carbine (trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway) and the Remington Model 8 (safety mechanism).
ack-ack
In 2009 Mikhail Kalashnikov admitted that Schmeisser "helped" design AK-47.
In my opinion Kalashnikov is charlatan. In all his years as an " inventor" not being able to design anything else is a bit of a give away. AEK-971 clearly much better rifle was designed over 25 years ago but lost to AK series in competition. I'm thinking Kalashnikov was blowing entire Politburo and that's why AK is still in production.
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I'm thinking Kalashnikov was blowing entire Politburo and that's why AK is still in production.
Can't they come up with something new? Or it's that AK is THAT GOOD as is right now?
I mean right now you can buy a pirated African AK for less than a pirated Chinese AK and much less than an original Russian AK
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Can't they come up with something new? Or it's that AK is THAT GOOD as is right now?
I mean right now you can buy a pirated African AK for less than a pirated Chinese AK and much less than an original Russian AK
You just read last sentence of my comment didn't you?
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Can't they come up with something new? Or it's that AK is THAT GOOD as is right now?
I mean right now you can buy a pirated African AK for less than a pirated Chinese AK and much less than an original Russian AK
Suggest you do a little research into the history of the AK and all it's variants. Today's AK is not the original AK. They have kept up with the times.
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um...not too keen on weapons but what about the M1 Garand? wasn't it like the first semi-automatic weapon?or something along those lines? i don't know...
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um...not too keen on weapons but what about the M1 Garand? wasn't it like the first semi-automatic weapon?or something along those lines? i don't know...
Either way, his paper is on the evolution of automatic weapons. I suppose semi-auto is part of that evolution, but if he did that, he'd have to address every step along the way of the firearm.
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Despite some claiming the AK-47 was based at the StG44 (some claim the gas system and layout was influenced by the StG44) but Kalashnikov himself as disputed this. According to him, his influence in designing the original AK was the SKS (which he lost to in an earlier design competition), M1 Garand/Carbine (trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway) and the Remington Model 8 (safety mechanism).
ack-ack
Oh come now Ack-ack, lets look at Russia's innovative history and their consistent reputation of adamantly denying to "borrowing" designs from their enemies or rivals. Tu-4 anyone?
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Either way, his paper is on the evolution of automatic weapons. I suppose semi-auto is part of that evolution, but if he did that, he'd have to address every step along the way of the firearm.
Yeah, originally I asked my prof if I could do the evolution of firearms. He said it was a good idea but that would be WAY to long. So I asked him "What abut evolution of AUTOMATIC weapons?" and he said yeah that could work.
-BigBOBCH
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The STG-44 and Ak-47 are both gas operated and piston driven. I was wondering if anybody could find and post the schematic diagrams for each, as I believe we would find that they are rather dissimilar in most other aspects.
From what I understand Kalashnikov used a rotating bolt, the idea for which he got from the Garand/Carbine line.
Ooohh BigBob, I'm afraid you've opened a can of worms now. :lol
Awesome thread though. :aok
<S> Melvin