Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: climber on October 25, 2010, 10:48:35 AM
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I just learned something new about tracers in WW2. While reading Bud Fortiers' book he mentions that since the ballistics of tracers were different to normal rounds (since tracers were burning they had a lower trajectory) he would have them loaded at the end of the chain. This way the pilot knows when he is near the end of his ammo when the tracers start firing, kinda like the red on the end of a cash register receipt.
Not sure if I would want this modeled in the game since we can easily know exactly how many rounds are left on board but to have the opportunity to switch how tracers are setup would be an interesting realism touch. A downside would definitely be if I was getting shot at and had not seen tracers then suddenly see tracers I would know my attacker was at a disadvantage.
Thoughts??
-Climber
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he would have them loaded at the end of the chain. This way the pilot knows when he is near the end of his ammo when the tracers start firing, kinda like the red on the end of a cash register receipt.
The downside to this would be that the enemy would know when you were about to run out of ammo too, and that would not be a good thing for you.
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we dont need it in game, we have digital ammo counters in every single plane :rock
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we dont need it in game, we have digital ammo counters in every single plane :rock
Simple solution: Remove the counters. I don't like having them in planes that didn't historically (ie, some German birds did) as it is.
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Simple solution: Remove the counters. I don't like having them in planes that didn't historically (ie, some German birds did) as it is.
I like that idea. :aok
+1
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Simple solution: Remove the counters. I don't like having them in planes that didn't historically (ie, some German birds did) as it is.
if you guys really want to be as accurate as ww2 then lots of things will have to go. zero's firing bullets/cannons with same trigger, anything that has to do with radar, 1200 or more kills in anything with tracks, lazer guided bombs from any buff at any altitude, and most important of all, landing any kills. that didnt happen to most pilots. there's lots of things that are added just to enhance playing and sometimes just because they're fun.
semp
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Cool thoughts folks!
I wanted to throw this one in the oven just to see if it would bake. I'm not really for the idea myself (even though I suggested it) but I thought it was a cool tidbit of history and wanted to read others thoughts on the idea.
-Climber
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As I understand it, that policy was very short lived as it told the enemy you were out of ammo as well. It certainly was not done in all airforces during the war.
PS. A lot of what guncrasher stated is silly.
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zero's firing bullets/cannons with same trigger.
Actually, I like the idea of changing this, too.
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Simple solution: Remove the counters. I don't like having them in planes that didn't historically (ie, some German birds did) as it is.
pretty sure the brewster had this as well
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Actually, I like the idea of changing this, too.
How would you make it work though?
It is easy to program an advanced stick to fire both at the same time, so this would simply disadvantage people without programmable sticks.
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The way we can select guns to fire in Aces High you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell if an enemy was low on ammo. Say for this example select a P-47 or a P-51. Select either gun and fire those only until 'low tracers' appeared, giving the enemy an indication you are low ammo. Then switch to the other gun and have plenty of ammo left.
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If there were an empty slot in the secondary weapons selection, you could choose to fire (a) either primary with main trigger only, (b) primary and secondary (by selecting say cannon on a spit 16), or (c) only firing secondary by pressing the secondary trigger.
Using a spit 16 as an example I can currently fire only the 50 cal if I have the slipper tank chosen as secondary. Once the slipper tank is let loose I have only the option of firing both 50 cal and hispano when pushing my primary trigger. I can also choose to fire only the hispano by pressing my secondary trigger (same as I use to drop ordnance, or external fuel tanks). It would be nice to be able to only fire the 50 cal and not waste as much hispano. The main concern is; was this option available to the spit. It looks like the zero, brewster, and some german aircraft may have had that capability.
Would that be hard to add into the game?
This thread is getting interesting.
-Climber
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Early in the war they belted the tracers to tell the end of the ammo belt. The enemy very quickly figured out what this meant, and would turn and attack the helpless plane. Pilots stopped belting their tracers that way.
I doubt it was all that common. Frankly, I think no tracers is really better. It helps your aim much more than the "clutter" that tracer streams make on your gunsight image.
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Simple solution: Remove the counters. I don't like having them in planes that didn't historically (ie, some German birds did) as it is.
Game play concession, you most likely will never see it go.
Quote from: guncrasher on Today at 04:36:27 PM
zero's firing bullets/cannons with same trigger.
Actually, I like the idea of changing this, too.
Another game play concession based on customer's possible hardware configurations. Not everyone can afford a top of the line joystick that has a myriad of buttons to program, some actually play on a joystick with a single button. As semp pointed out in his post, sometimes reality has to take a back seat for the sake of game play.
ack-ack
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Much as ANY game out there with multiple players has an ammo counter, I don't think AH should remove ours.
Any FPS out there tells you how many clips you have, how many rounds left. Any RPG tells you how much health you have, how much mana, how many potions/spells/whatever left. Any decent flight sim out there will have a way of telling you your fuel, engine settings, ammo, temperature (hell, even TargetWare had the debug screen that most folks flew around watching their ammo on).
It's not a compromise in the reality of it... It's a gameplay FEATURE that's invaluable to any player, in any game. We strive for the experience of the action of fighting in WW2, not the monotony... Not sitting around for 2 hours waiting for a raid to prepare, running the engine for 1 hour, heating it up half an hour before, then taking off and waiting 20 minutes before getting airborne because you're last in line of 200 planes taking off.....
Removing the ammo counters would be as stupid as the IL2-phytes that love to pretend "no icons" is realistic. It's a false argument because we're NOT recreating a WW2 sortie where you fire your guns ONCE if you're lucky then run screaming home for help. The majority of all US WW2 pilots never saw the enemy. Keep that in mind.
Ammo counters serve a function, same as the damage screen... same as an accurate fuel gauge (not all had that luxury), to have guns that never jammed or engines that didn't sieze up if you flew inverted more than 10 seconds (I kid you not)....
So if you're on a quest to make things realistic, you have a crapload of things above "remove the ammo counters" before you even consider playing that card.
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I was waiting for someone to bring up "Gameplay Concession" for the ammo counters.
This isn't like the damage readout where it compensates for the fact you're missing tactile feedback something's not working right in your plane.
This isn't like the stall buzzer and exaggerated buffet that stands in for the tactile feedback of your plane turning to mush as you near a stall.
Or the annoying blackouts that stand in for the fact you have a big, gaping bullet hole in your gut and you're about to black out.
It's a substitute for knowing your plane, and having a sense of how much ammo you used. I'd like you to explain to me how THAT is unrealistic without a counter.
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hows about just being able to change how often a tracer comes out, like instead of every fifth round being a tracer, you could change it to every 10 or 20'th round instead. I dont know how historically accurate it would be, but it would add a little something.
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I was waiting for someone to bring up "Gameplay Concession" for the ammo counters.
And I was waiting for the "this compensates for that!, but the ammo counters don't!" type of argument... :P
It doesn't apply the way you describe. It's not that the ammo counter makes up for anything, it is simply that the way we play is so distanced from real life actions and tactics that our fun depends on knowing whether we have enough ammunition to have a "fun fight" or if not to change our minds.
In WW2 the multiple combats per sortie was a statistical rarity... Some of the luckier aces had them, but most pilots did not. In here it is what we want. We don't WANT to mimick reality. We want to immerse in the "thrilling side" of combat, not the dull side.
So the ammo counters do NOT counter a "tactile feel" or anything like that, but they ARE a very important feature of any online game, in almost any genre. Something, somewhere, gives you some info that lets you decide whether you want to press your luck or not (and it is knowing that lets you make the informed gamble, which is much more satisfying than dumb blind ignorance). This is simply the nature of online games and our recreation activities. It's no concession, but it is an industry standard and expected (nay, demanded) by most gamers in the world regardless of the game.
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Simple solution: Remove the counters. I don't like having them in planes that didn't historically (ie, some German birds did) as it is.
I would like this in FSO but not in MA
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PS. A lot of what guncrasher stated is silly.
As per usual.
As for cannons/mgs with the same trigger in zeros? Use your F and B key if you want. The 'fire all' button that you have mapped on your controller, be it joystick, keyboard, or mouse, simulates the pilot pulling his one (or two) triggers. As far as I can tell, there is no need to change it.
Buuut, if it reaalllyyy bugs you, change your joystick buttons.
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As per usual.
As for cannons/mgs with the same trigger in zeros? Use your F and B key if you want. The 'fire all' button that you have mapped on your controller, be it joystick, keyboard, or mouse, simulates the pilot pulling his one (or two) triggers. As far as I can tell, there is no need to change it.
Buuut, if it reaalllyyy bugs you, change your joystick buttons.
my point was that he wanted traces to be more like in ww2, i just pointed out to him that here's lots of things here that are not really like it was in ww2. like the zero's ability to shoot cannons and mg at the same time. but it is all just so we can have more fun. like lots of people already mentioned before. btw everything that I wrote is not silly. none of it is like it was in ww2.
semp
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of note of giving away your out of ammo . the RAF in the far east would feed tracer every 4th round at the middle of the belt to fool the IJA into thinking they were running out of ammo . It worked very well and increased the kill rate for the RAF .