Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on September 25, 2001, 11:00:00 AM
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A recent article by Tom Pabst highlights the risks associated with PCs overheating. Everyone should read this article, especially if you build your own system.
Anyone ever wonder how long their CPU would last if the heat sink fell off? <especially you guys going to the con>
Check this out (especially the video at the end):
Tom's CPU with no heatsink test (http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/index.html)
Don't try this at home unless you have a fire extinguisher.
AKDejaVu
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:eek:
Man, that was eye-opening to say the least. I routinely leave my computer running when I'm out of the house... 700 degrees? <Shudder>
Glad I haven't upgraded to anything past my O/C Celeron yet. I WILL be watching that "thermal protection on the cpu" function now.
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This is the ONE area that I have to say Intel is the definate leader in. My only comment on the article would be that if your heatsink fell off an Athlon or P4 there would be more to worry about than just the cpu. :D Anything in the top slot (usually agp video card) would be damaged for sure. At least AMD protected the Palomino core against fan failures.
You can also buy 4 1.4 Athlons for the price of 1 P4 2 Gig (which perform similarly to each other overall). ;)
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Don't believe Deja. It's obviously INTEL propoganda :)
I want a second opinion.....
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Oh...umm Bloom might be that second opinion... :p
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You can also buy 4 1.4 Athlons for the price of 1 P4 2 Gig (which perform similarly to each other overall).
It fried the motherboard too ;)
Don't believe Deja. It's obviously INTEL propoganda
Hehehehe.... Tom's Hardware is a notorious Intel supporter. He's had it in for AMD from day one. I bet those smoking AMD CPUs were doctored by Dr. Tom to do that.
AKDejaVu
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BTW... I cannot stress enough to download the video at the end of the article. It is amazing on many aspects.
The videos are done with the open motherboard in front of a monitor displaying the quake demo they are running. What is amazing is how quickly things get hot for all of the CPUs... and how each of them respond. The P4 is particularly neet when they put the fan back on if you are paying attention to the demo running in the background. The affect is instant and dramatic.
AKDejaVu
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I know the AMD's are inexpensive.
However, what's the end user cost if the thing burns down your house?
Like I said, a lot of times I leave the computer running while I'm gone. Go out and do yard work, run to the store, etc.
If my house was burning when I got home, I wouldn't care what the AMD chip had cost.
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Hi there,
ust got a new system up and running. I was concerned about heat and wanted to get a good fan. The best the store had was a dual fan unit with a fan on each end pushing in. The unit is near the power supply and should have had a good flow out of the case. I also installed a front case fan to pull / push air towards the exit fan. It seemed to work but I still cannot close te case on this AMD 1.4 Tbird. I have a small personal fan (6" 110 volt clamp on) about 2 and a half feet from the case blowing into it. This keeps the cpu temp about 105 degrees. Last night in an experiment I put the case on and the CPU finally did overheat after a couple of hours. I hoped it would stay at 115 degrees but it went up to the lock temp of 122 and the system locked hard.
I am going to look at some way to duct air into a specific stream by the CPU. I saw several neat looking "cooling tower" cases at the store but $250 to $350 a pop for a case seems to be way too high to my way of thinking. Most just have extra holes and fans in the case. I can do that here at home MUCh less expensively. I'll also look at closing off some of the open areas that seem to be poorly placed to direct air. I want it to go in a specific direction not just whirl out before it gets to the hot stuff in the unit.
Keep the info going as this situation will only get more critical as CPU's get bigger.
Mav
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My 1.3 G athlon ran really hot at first..almost 140F
I took the thing back and added a fan got the heatsink reseated in the CPU and now run around 120F according to the ASUS software.
At that temp I don't overheat or lock up, but any hotter and it will.
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I bought a 1.333 GHz combo from Multiwave with an Enlight 7237 case with 340 W PS. Have no idea what kind of heat sink or fan they used. Never seen temps above 120. :)
[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Mav,
What I did was add a 2nd fan in the back blowing cold air into the case. Then took a 20oz pop bottle and manufactured an air scoop that takes about half of the fans output, and force feeds it right into the CPU cooler.
The rest of the air does a good job of keeping the Voodoo 5500 cool.
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That I think is another reason for the amount of heat generated in my case..VooDoo 5.
The last thing i want to do is put flammable materials inside my case :eek:
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I got celeron 566 which is overclocked to 850mhz, been so for almost a year now.
With overclocking it ranges 43-47C and with normal clocks it is about 4-5 C lower.
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I wanted to check how high could my CPU temp rise under serious load:
1,4Ghz Athlon running 1,51Ghz with Thermaltake's Volcano 6Cu, shim and silverpaste.
Screenshot from desktop with AsusProbe showing temperatures (http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/10pifaststemp.gif)
Oh, I did run 10 PiFasts to get a good load, One takes less than 53sec to run so 10 of those took less than 10mins but long enough to see results.
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Don't get too worried guys. The chances of your heatsink falling off (if you've mounted it correctly) are very small. I would highly recommend checking it before and after a trip though. (This goes for ALL cpus, regardless of manufacturer.) If you've ever had the pleasure of mounting a heatsink on an Athlon then you know what it would take to get the thing off.
I've never heard of a fire caused by a cpu burning up, though I wonder if homeowner's insurance covers that? ;)
(DejaVu, I'll bet that article almost made you fall out of your chair coming from Tom Pabst. ;) )
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Wow Staga, 50 C is excellent at that load level. My 1.3 Tbird runs at about 47C (116 F) full load after about an hour of spice work or maybe up to 45C after a long time in AH.
140 F (60 C ) is the hottest temperature that I would consider OK for a Tbird. I've seen as high at 70C on a friends system and it is still stable. It's important to remember that the CPU will draw more power as the temperature goes up. (As all semiconductors do.) This puts a heavier load on the Powersupply and thus things get even hotter.
I see one person says his system locks up at around 120C. My guess is that he is using a 200 or 250W powersupply. A 300W powersupply is nearly a requirement for P4s and fast Athlons. Look at it this way: A 1.4 Tbird can use up to 84W of power. Now add the 40 - 50W for the video card and 10 W for the soundcard. All that power comes off the Motherboard, which only typically has 130 - 160W available to it from the 3.3 and 5 Volt supplies and you can see the problem. (Most powersupplies list how much power can be provided on the 3.3 and 5V combined to the MB itself.) Intel has taken an interesting route to combat this problem in requiring P4 systems to use special powersupplies with an addtional power connector.
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Hehehehe.... Tom's Hardware is a notorious Intel supporter. He's had it in for AMD from day one. I bet those smoking AMD CPUs were doctored by Dr. Tom to do that.
AKDejaVu
Woah! Tom is hardly an Intel cheerleader (any more than he has been a 3dfx, Nvidia or AMD cheerleader etc. :) Tom seems to support companies that offer effective performance/cost products and is very critical of "marketing" over function. I have seen him slam both Intel and AMD over the years. I believe that a company is only as good as its current offering where Tom is concerned (3dfx for example).
Recently, he has been giving Intel a very hard time -- as he should. The Duron is universally recommended over the Celeron, and the Athlon over the P3/P4. He helped make sure Intel didn't get away with its Rambus support, slammed the first 1 Ghz effort by Intel and is a critic of Intel's strong-arm tactics with the Asian MB mfgs. He is about the most accurate and non-biased (or at least cantankerous) reviewer I have come across.
Charon
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Charon, I am well aware of Tom's exploits. That statement was totally tongue in cheek. His desire to see Intel fall from the top is only surpassed by his desire to see AMD knock them off.
I still recall him recomending the AMD K6-2 as a processor of choice for small companies that didn't need to worry about things like graphics intensive programs or <later to learn> stability. Tom has always looked for reasons to promote AMD.
DejaVu, I'll bet that article almost made you fall out of your chair coming from Tom Pabst. ;)
You got that right Bloom. I heard about the article and said "are you sure that's on Tom's Hardware?" I'm not accustomed to him actually admitting things like Intel had a good idea with their over-temp protection in the P4. ;)
As a rule, I find AnandTech to be much more objective. Tom has a bad habbit of focussing on one issue and ignoring others... as fits his mood of the day.
AKDejaVu
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Fan falling off is rare.
Fan quitting? Not so rare.
Same result, n'est pas?
I think homeowners would cover it though. If your toaster torches, they cover it.
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Fan falling off is rare.
Fan quitting? Not so rare.
Same result, n'est pas?
Hmmm... Whatever happened to themperature monitoring by the mobo itself or programms like MBM? Mine's set to cut the main power if the CPU goes over 70C. Simple and it works - I tested it with lower temps... My 1GHz Athlon goes up to 50-52C after AH and other graphics intensive things.
It is no rare occasion that the processor heat sink fell off while the system was in transport.
Tom's scaremongering here unless he's talking about some Intel derived crap - no amount of shaking or bumping will take an AMD-approved heatsink off the motherboard unless the motherboard's desintegrated itself... :rolleyes:
[ 09-26-2001: Message edited by: -lynx- ]
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My house is on fire as I type this...very hot in here...Intel PIII 800 running at 104 F...what a company!
:D
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hmmmmmmmm, AMD laying off people, closing plants, stock under $10, and Gateway dumps AMD for Intel. You could say AMD is melting in more then one way :D
I wonder if you can toast marshmellows over that motherboard the AMD's are on and how many could you toast before the heat declines or you are driven out of the house by toxic fumes, smoke and fire :D?
Proud owner of an Intel P4 1.7Ghz :) Leaves puter on all the time, no problem :)
<posts sticky note on puter:sell AMD in the morning, short!!>
[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: 1776 ]
[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: 1776 ]
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Obvously plant closings are not a good thing, but let me say the FABs 14 and 15 used an old aluminum interconnect process that could not be used for > 1gig processors with acceptable yields. (Fab25 in Dresden uses a more modern copper interconnect process.) They would have been temporarily closed or remodelled (which may be happening) regardless of AMDs current stock price.
No computer company stock (that I know of) has been totally spared. Let me say that both AMD and Intel have new "stuff" coming out that will likely cause both their stocks to rebound pretty soon. :)
As for leaving your computer running all the time, mine's been up over a week now without a reboot. I run my system VERY hard with engineering software and games (if I have time ;) ). Before that it was on for 2 months straight over the summer. The only reason it was turned off was because I had to move it 50 miles away. ;) Don't be a moron and think that just because you have an AMD system you can't leave your system on all the time. My motherboard would shut my system down (as will most modern Intel or AMD boards) if my CPU (or case fan) failed and the temperature went up. If you have win2k or Linux there are no problems associated (usually) with running your system continuously without it locking up for extended periods of time.
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It is somewhat narrowminded to assume that the AMD plants that were closed were processor manufacturing plants.
Much of both AMD and Intels revenue over the last two years has come from flash memory. It wasn't successful processor sales that bumped AMD into the black.. it was flash sales. It allowed AMD to greatly reduce the price of their processors. It also made it easier for Intel to follow suit.
Unfortunately, the flash market has slowed drastically. As a result, both companies are having to make manufacturing adjustments in that area.
What remains to be seen is how much of an impact the price war between the two companies will affect things now. Whereas before it wasn't as much of a factor since there was another source of revenue... now both are going to have to pay much more attention to processor revenue.
AKDejaVu
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By the way... Gateway and IBM's decision to drop AMD was not particularly based on some "we've finally decided this one is better" conclusion. They were based on the fact that it is more expensive to run completely different platforms in both a tech support and manufacturing environment.
The industry as a whole is looking to reduce costs wherever they can. That was an obvious choice. The reasone for Intel being the "winner"... certification and volume. AMD can't catch Intel in either category.
AKDejaVu