Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Simaril on November 02, 2010, 07:02:56 PM
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EskimoJoe started an interesting thread, but it's wandered off the original topic enough that I thought it worthwhile to restart it.
So lemme summarize the part that got me thinking, by quoting the key ideas brought up early on. 'Cause I've got a quote of my own that puts things in a little different perspective.
Just a thought. Most kids today are incompetent, foolish, ignorant, so on.....
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
-Socrates; c. 469 BC–399 BC
The youth of today is nothing new and nothing special.
I would strongly argue that things are indeed different than they have been, that criticism of what we see now is not just a bunch of geezers saying, "in MY day..." The best illustration I can think of came from the book No Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthy. McCarthy has a character say -
I read in papers here a while back some teachers come across a survey that was sent out back in the thirties to a number of schools around the country. Had this questionnaire about what was the problems with teachin in the schools. And they come across these forms, they'd been filled out and sent in from around the country answerin these questions. And the biggest problems they could name was things like talkin in class and runnin in the hallways. Chewin gum. Copyin homework. Things of that nature. So they got one of them forms that was blank and printed up a bunch of em and sent em back out to the same schools. Forty years later. Well, here come the answers back. Rape, arson, murder. Drugs. Suicide. So I think about that. Because a lot of the time ever when I say anything about how the world is goin to hell in a handbasket people will just sort of smile and tell me I'm gettin old. That it's one of the symptoms. But my feelin about that is that anybody that cant tell the difference between rapin and murderin people and chewin gum has got a whole lot bigger of a problem than what I've got.
So what do you folks think?
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The same sob story has gone on for ages. People hate change. Furthermore, rape, murder and robbery have always been around; in fact, they're here to stay. So get ready for the rest of your life!
-Penguin
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Interesting Sim..
Squid has a lot of friends that are a bit on the fringe but they are always respectful around here and, for some unknown reason, they listen to me. I think people tend to accentuate the negative and ignore the positive in most cases.
That said there are way too many parents who are allowing both themselves and their children be babysat by the television or the video game. At what point did your own personal 'happiness' take a back seat to raising a child 'correctly' (quote marks for differing parenting styles). I'm nobodys hero but I can guarantee you that if Squid or one of his friends knocked on my door and said 'can we talk?' I'd quit whatever I was doing and take an active interest in the discussion.
I think I said it in the other thread. There are a lot of good young people out there. I've had discussions with members of this game that I had no clue they were young until they mentioned it in threads.
Perhaps it's time for people to focus on the positives rather than the negatives in the youth of today. Or, better yet, get off your butts and be an example to young people rather than a critic of them.
But that's just me.
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When I was GLing and COing scenarios (especially the past couple) I never mentioned my age, and no one ever asked (unless someone got into conversation on TS about it). Everyone was surprised and didn't believe me when I told them I am only 16. Now whether this is because of my voice or maturity I don't have any idea. I've grown up around older friends and maturity excelled because of this...I wish more kids my age would take studies seriously as that will be their lifeline in this modern world. Many of my 'friends' simply don't give a damn about it...but that isn't my problem.
Not trying to toot my own horn but that's how I see it.
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Interesting Sim..
Squid has a lot of friends that are a bit on the fringe but they are always respectful around here and, for some unknown reason, they listen to me. I think people tend to accentuate the negative and ignore the positive in most cases.
That said there are way too many parents who are allowing both themselves and their children be babysat by the television or the video game. At what point did your own personal 'happiness' take a back seat to raising a child 'correctly' (quote marks for differing parenting styles). I'm nobodys hero but I can guarantee you that if Squid or one of his friends knocked on my door and said 'can we talk?' I'd quit whatever I was doing and take an active interest in the discussion.
I think I said it in the other thread. There are a lot of good young people out there. I've had discussions with members of this game that I had no clue they were young until they mentioned it in threads.
Perhaps it's time for people to focus on the positives rather than the negatives in the youth of today. Or, better yet, get off your butts and be an example to young people rather than a critic of them.
But that's just me.
My classmates are neither repectful nor respectable. See my rant in Joe's thread for an example of a typical day in California's public schools through the eyes of a honour's student.
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When I was GLing and COing scenarios (especially the past couple) I never mentioned my age, and no one ever asked (unless someone got into conversation on TS about it). Everyone was surprised and didn't believe me when I told them I am only 16. Now whether this is because of my voice or maturity I don't have any idea. I've grown up around older friends and maturity excelled because of this...I wish more kids my age would take studies seriously as that will be their lifeline in this modern world. Many of my 'friends' simply don't give a damn about it...but that isn't my problem.
Not trying to toot my own horn but that's how I see it.
This. (aside from the GLing, COing, and being 16 years of age part.)
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Today's generation is soft and untested...(excepting the finest amongst us who serve the nation)...
99% of the kids (teens) running around today don't have a single clue on what creates wealth...or what preserves freedom...
We will see how this whole thing shakes out...
Holding out hope...but not holding my breath...
My hunch is that the original dream of American individual self determination and freedom will be preserved despite them...not because of them...
Kids today have no idea how lucky they are...and more importantly, what it cost to get here...
I hope to be proven wrong
Oneway
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When I was GLing and COing scenarios (especially the past couple) I never mentioned my age, and no one ever asked (unless someone got into conversation on TS about it). Everyone was surprised and didn't believe me when I told them I am only 16. Now whether this is because of my voice or maturity I don't have any idea. I've grown up around older friends and maturity excelled because of this...I wish more kids my age would take studies seriously as that will be their lifeline in this modern world. Many of my 'friends' simply don't give a damn about it...but that isn't my problem.
Not trying to toot my own horn but that's how I see it.
<3333 amen spikes
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When I was GLing and COing scenarios (especially the past couple) I never mentioned my age, and no one ever asked (unless someone got into conversation on TS about it). Everyone was surprised and didn't believe me when I told them I am only 16. Now whether this is because of my voice or maturity I don't have any idea. I've grown up around older friends and maturity excelled because of this...I wish more kids my age would take studies seriously as that will be their lifeline in this modern world. Many of my 'friends' simply don't give a damn about it...but that isn't my problem.
Not trying to toot my own horn but that's how I see it.
Your voice sure doesn't sound that young! Sounds more like middle-aged. :)
Really though the maturity you and others show is top notch, I tend to find the younger players that, while energetic, usually have a true desire to listen and learn the game. I helped one younger person with a walkthrough of setting up their joystick in WWI and even though it took 25 minutes he never got impatient or mad, he just asked questions politely and followed my advise, once we got it working he thanked me and was on his way. There are always going to be good and bad times and people to match. I'm actually one of the younger ones around here, (although I tend not to tell my age), and it's mostly this game that taught me a lot about respect.
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From my perspective it seems like 75% of today's youth expect life to walk up to them with a big platter of good stuff. They don't seem to realize that no one is going to just give you what you want. You have to earn it, work for it, or it doesn't mean anything.
Granted the top 25% are just as good as anyone you'd see in any age.
It just seems like most don't have a clue.
When I graduated from HS back in 1970 I had 5,000 $ saved for college and car, and that was all lawn mowing money. Started when I was 12 at a buck an hour, dad provided mower and tools as long as every thursday our lawn was immaculate for the weekend. Course he was a stickler on making me save at least 50% of every dime I made too.
By the time I got married in my 40's that 5k had grown to 45k, enough to buy a house, free and clear.
Seems now days most kids want it all, they want it right away, and they really don't want to have to work or wait for it. I don't guess that part is new. But it does seem to be getting worse.
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Kids are kids, regardless of generation. The whines about 'todays kids' sound a lot like was said about the kids in the 70s when I was a teenager. In our information saturation/voyeurism folks want to hear the worst. Certainly there are different things that each generation of kids has had to deal with, but they're still kids.
I've worked with 'teens' all my adult life and I'm now 50. I've raised three to adulthood and have another growing up now. Folks don't report the 99% of the kids and parents doing their thing. Watching my kids in High school was just like seeing my High School days.
It still comes down to parents setting the example and raising their kids in a responsible way. That's never changed.
So Sim I agree, it's just folks getting old wanting to think somehow it was different back then.
And yes I walked to school, twenty miles in deep snow, barefoot, uphill both ways...and I liked it! :)
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My classmates are neither repectful nor respectable. See my rant in Joe's thread for an example of a typical day in California's public schools through the eyes of a honour's student.
Something doesn't add up; if you're from California, why are you spelling 'honor' as 'honour'?
-Penguin
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The major difference between now and back in the thirties is not the crimes themself. The difference is in general public aweness of such crimes. That, and the fact that in the 1930s people didnt talk openly about horrible things. They certainly did not have the balls to write 'rape, murder and drugs' on a form sent round to schools. These days, rape and murder and drugs make a good headline.
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Something doesn't add up; if you're from California, why are you spelling 'honor' as 'honour'?
-Penguin
Some people prefer to use the English language I suppose.
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Some people prefer to use the English language I suppose.
True, but the dialect in which you type reveals where you spend your time, for example:
In southern states, "ya'll" can be an acceptable contraction of "you", or "you all"
In Canada and England (and possibly other countries where English is spoken), "colour" and "honour" are correct spellings
Thus the point I am trying to make is, that I question the truth of his story based on the discrepancy between his dialect and alleged location. In addition, even if he were from Canada/Britain, in his honors class, foreign spellings would not be tolerated.
Please, however, correct me if I am wrong by explaining the discrepancy.
-Penguin
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True, but the dialect in which you type reveals where you spend your time, for example:
In southern states, "ya'll" can be an acceptable contraction of "you", or "you all"
In Canada and England (and possibly other countries where English is spoken), "colour" and "honour" are correct spellings
Thus the point I am trying to make is, that I question the truth of his story based on the discrepancy between his dialect and alleged location. In addition, even if he were from Canada/Britain, in his honors class, foreign spellings would not be tolerated.
Please, however, correct me if I am wrong by explaining the discrepancy.
-Penguin
He's just trying to seem distinguished by using BrE. It's similar to using rigid and awkward sentence construction when a simpler more conversation-like tone would be preferable.
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He's just trying to seem distinguished by using BrE. It's similar to using rigid and awkward sentence construction when a simpler more conversation-like tone would be preferable.
Ouch, that one cut deep. Anyway, I would still like to know why he is speaking as if he is from Britain. I can explain my rigid tone, however. I have just slightly overdone a short story's editing, and thus imprinted its sentence structure into my brain.
It may be permanent.
-Penguin
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Anyway, I would still like to know why he is speaking as if he is from Britain.
'cos the Queen's English is bloody friggen proppa innit mate?
Ye keep askin' stupid arse questions like that and I' shiv yea right in the arse, bruv
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dood relly pengueen? whutz ur beef wit da way sumbody spellz sumthin. if yarg mateyy! can understend ye, whutz da proint?
No, really. It really shouldn't matter to you if where somebody is from or how they spell something, as long as it's right either way.
Nice hijack :rolleyes:
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What's this all aboot!
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What's this all aboot!
:rofl
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dood relly pengueen? whutz ur beef wit da way sumbody spellz sumthin. if yarg mateyy! can understend ye, whutz da proint?
No, really. It really shouldn't matter to you if where somebody is from or how they spell something, as long as it's right either way.
Nice hijack :rolleyes:
Oops, I did hijack the thread.
-Penguin
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Despite everything you do raise a good point, Penguin. However the easiest explanation is that 'location' does not equal 'birthplace' ?
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Something doesn't add up; if you're from California, why are you spelling 'honor' as 'honour'?
-Penguin
I'm neither trying to come across as sophisticated by using the synonymous spellings, nor am I using it because I am a resident of England posing as a Californian. I use those spellings as they seem more correct, in my mind. Much like many of use tend to use the suffix -ise when -ize is equally acceptable. In addition, I read much too much English (the island, not the langauge) literature than can possibly be good for me. You, of course, are free to draw your own conclusions. I could not care less about what strangers on teh interwebz think of me.
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I'm neither trying to come across as sophisticated by using the synonymous spellings, nor am I using it because I am a resident of England posing as a Californian. I use those spellings as they seem more correct, in my mind. Much like many of use tend to use the suffix -ise when -ize is equally acceptable. In addition, I read much too much English (the island, not the langauge) literature than can possibly be good for me. You, of course, are free to draw your own conclusions. I could not care less about what strangers on teh interwebz think of me.
Sorry for that, it just seemed strange that you spelled honor like that.
-Penguin
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For the Web 2.0 generation:
This is what happens when you promote yourself too much online...
http://www.youtube.com/v/6q_oiAxasxE&hd=1
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<== Waiting for the day the media stops glorifying ignorant, moronic slackers as being "cool". Seriously, how many movies and TV series have y'all seen where the 'rebel without a cause' type was depicted as the breakout character that fans tried to imitate?
Starting at about the 6th grade, I was placed in more advanced level courses that included disciplined, hard working students like myself. The teachers were plenty good for the courses because they were able to actually "teach" instead of screaming and reprimanding the clowns. I was spoiled with this sort of atmosphere all the way up until my junior year, when I had to take a Spanish class as a foreign language credit. Trying to maintain order in that class was about like being in the middle of a zoo and all the animals knew how to make IED's. My Panamanian teacher, a timid and mousy middle-aged lady, was completely run over every day by the "gangstas" and just plain malicious teens. On several occasions, some idiot as a prank would turn off the light in the windowless room and start throwing books around while others screamed at the top of their lungs. Another retard would yell out the F-bomb at the top of his lungs in the middle of class just to see how far he could push things with the teacher who didn't understand English curse words. The crazy part was that the main office would not back the teacher and take her side when she called for discipline. They even turned off her intercom system when she needed help from the school cops to come retake order. I credit my low blood pressure with keeping me sane and levelheaded, but there were many of times when I just about went ape-sh*t on them!
Of course, back then I didn't carry an argument with anyone and would rather just stay calm and not escalate the situation further if it didn't directly involve me. I have a strong sense and respect for authority. Delinquents who want to rebel against that authority for the sake of anarchy have earned nothing but my contempt.
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Completely unrelated, Neeley, but Fallen Angels was such a great book :frown:
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Completely unrelated, Neeley, but Fallen Angels was such a great book :frown:
Yeah I liked it, read it three times now. I've had that sig for over four years and thats the first time anyone has ever said anything about it. Why the frown?
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check this out neeley, where I went to school some of the honors classes were actually easier than the normal classes. Maybe It was a result of the students "pulling together" to manipulate the teacher. In the honors class nobody did any work for the fact the teacher could not fail everyone in class as it would reflect bad on her. We would take tests and the teacher would post the answers on the overhead, Crazy huh? However I would usually take regular classes as I've never thought myself as much of a student and we would be given tests to fail or pass and have to write numerous amounts of papers, but to finally join honors class and see they were doing that nonsense blew my mind. I just remember talking to friends who were in regular classes and they seemed to always be writing papers and getting home work everyday, so when I told them in honors class we don't receive homework ever and tests are all cake, they were like wtf!
Hek my parents would always make sure I went to class and would give me hell if I ever skipped, but to find out other students who have accumulated over 300 absences (1 per class, or 7 a day) were going to be pass too was kind of irritating.
Last my history teacher would tell us that In ww2 mexico was an axis power and that the germans used porcelain rifles to avoid jamming and that on christmas day everybody put their guns down and played soccer with each other....Americans and germans playing soccer in WW2! WTF! (mind this was honors history)
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Last my history teacher would tell us that In ww2 mexico was an axis power and that the germans used porcelain rifles to avoid jamming and that on christmas day everybody put their guns down and played soccer with each other....Americans and germans playing soccer in WW2! WTF! (mind this was honors history)
I'm sorry but that's some quality history class you got there :rofl
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check this out neeley, where I went to school some of the honors classes were actually easier than the normal classes. Maybe It was a result of the students "pulling together" to manipulate the teacher. In the honors class nobody did any work for the fact the teacher could not fail everyone in class as it would reflect bad on her. We would take tests and the teacher would post the answers on the overhead, Crazy huh? However I would usually take regular classes as I've never thought myself as much of a student and we would be given tests to fail or pass and have to write numerous amounts of papers, but to finally join honors class and see they were doing that nonsense blew my mind. I just remember talking to friends who were in regular classes and they seemed to always be writing papers and getting home work everyday, so when I told them in honors class we don't receive homework ever and tests are all cake, they were like wtf!
Hek my parents would always make sure I went to class and would give me hell if I ever skipped, but to find out other students who have accumulated over 300 absences (1 per class, or 7 a day) were going to be pass too was kind of irritating.
Last my history teacher would tell us that In ww2 mexico was an axis power and that the germans used porcelain rifles to avoid jamming and that on christmas day everybody put their guns down and played soccer with each other....Americans and germans playing soccer in WW2! WTF! (mind this was honors history)
It is the complete opposite at my school. The hounour's teachers work your bellybutton off, assigning papers that they will probably not read. The only reason anybody does a thorough job with them is to A.)learn the material that the teacher was too negligent to teach, and B.) avoid the dreaded 0 score in the grade book, which drops your total course grade a full 10% in our wonderful little system, assuming the teacher takes the time to read 10 words from your paper. The tests are pure hell. Nothing that was assigned prepares you for them, and nothing discussed in class relates to the exams. You have to spend hours on end researching the material from third party sources, like web articles, books, magazines, and other unecessary publications. This is a far cry from the regular classes. Most of my C student friends have perhaps an hour's worth of homework a night, where as I will have four times that amount at a minimum. Their exams will be curved, so that if the class average is 20 question correct out of 100, the test is then scored as if it contained a total of 20 questions.
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It is the complete opposite at my school. The hounour's teachers work your bellybutton off, assigning papers that they will probably not read. The only reason anybody does a thorough job with them is to A.)learn the material that the teacher was too negligent to teach, and B.) avoid the dreaded 0 score in the grade book, which drops your total course grade a full 10% in our wonderful little system, assuming the teacher takes the time to read 10 words from your paper. The tests are pure hell. Nothing that was assigned prepares you for them, and nothing discussed in class relates to the exams. You have to spend hours on end researching the material from third party sources, like web articles, books, magazines, and other unecessary publications. This is a far cry from the regular classes. Most of my C student friends have perhaps an hour's worth of homework a night, where as I will have four times that amount at a minimum. Their exams will be curved, so that if the class average is 20 question correct out of 100, the test is then scored as if it contained a total of 20 questions.
well on the bright side they are preparing you for college a lot better than my school did. In a college course I was attending we would have many multiple choice assignments to complete on the computer, generally about 3 a week of 100 critical thinking questions which we were told if we did not do that we would surely fail. So I killed hours every week studying to pass these tests and I did, only to find out about half class never did them so instead of failing half the class the teacher simply dropped the assignments so most everyone could pass. I guess I should worry less about what happens to everyone else and just be content with passing myself...but yea doing work for nothing really sux :(
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The same sob story has gone on for ages. People hate change. Furthermore, rape, murder and robbery have always been around; in fact, they're here to stay. So get ready for the rest of your life!
-Penguin
explain please how idolizing a rapper that made his money off of drugs is the same as idolizing a hot rodder that made music?
or how a rapper that's killed people is the same as a mechanic that gets two other mechanic friends together, and becomes one of the biggest country western stars ever?
i could go on, but if you're really paying attention, those two made the point.
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Sucks to be you guys, I guess.
My Calc teacher has a passion for math and also teaches at the local Penn State campus, my history teacher has a passion for history and has us do things outside of the curriculum, my English teacher has a passion for English & history which is quite an asset as the Junior course in my district is British literature and the US educational system provides nothing as far as European history goes, & I've yet to ask my chem teacher a question she can't answer...
Mind you, my high school ranks at the bottom of the state.
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Sucks to be you guys, I guess.
My Calc teacher has a passion for math and also teaches at the local Penn State campus, my history teacher has a passion for history and has us do things outside of the curriculum, my English teacher has a passion for English & history which is quite a sweetie et as the Junior course in my district is British literature and the US educational system provides nothing as far as European history goes, & I've yet to ask my chem teacher a question she can't answer...
Mind you, my high school ranks at the bottom of the state.
To me that tells me more about its students (and their parents) than teachers.
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To me that tells me more about its students (and their parents) than teachers.
That's all it's ever about...
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explain please how idolizing a rapper that made his money off of drugs is the same as idolizing a hot rodder that made music?
or how a rapper that's killed people is the same as a mechanic that gets two other mechanic friends together, and becomes one of the biggest country western stars ever?
i could go on, but if you're really paying attention, those two made the point.
Idolizing? Who ever said anything about idolizing? Why would I idolize a drug dealer? How does the fact that some rappers have criminal records suddenly make the rest thugs? Country musicians aren't ultra clean either, have you ever notice how many of their songs deal with drinking?
In fact, all genres of music have had musicians that did drugs, killed people, and did horrid things that I would rather not mention. Singling out rappers isn't prejudice, it's missing out on an opportunity for further outrage!
It is simply impossible for every single rapper who ever lived to be a criminal. The same way that not every rapper is black, or every country musician a hick, or every pop star a creep.
Firstly: That applies both ways,
Secondly: Not only rappers have killed people, every single ethnic group has
Thirdly: Why are mechanics so special?
Your logic is flawed, revise it.
-Penguin