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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: EskimoJoe on November 17, 2010, 05:04:26 AM

Title: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 17, 2010, 05:04:26 AM
Not much information yet, let's hope and pray he got lost and didn't go down.  :pray

http://www.ktuu.com/news/ktuu-jber-says-f22-fighter-overdue-111710,0,4960192.story

I kindof chuckled when I read "one pilot aboard".. Still hoping the best for him/her  =/
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: 007Rusty on November 17, 2010, 07:56:05 AM
 :pray
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: FiLtH on November 17, 2010, 08:46:55 AM
  Lets hope he didnt fly too far west!!
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Reschke on November 17, 2010, 08:49:19 AM
Kinda hard to believe in this day and age that a military aircraft could just disappear like that; especially one as high tech as the F-22. However it could be that the missing pilot was placed here long ago as a young boy and was a deep cover agent who was programmed to make his way into the US military and become the best possible one that he could and he executed a theft of equipment for the Russians to start tearing apart to find out our secrets.

BTW that was done in one of Dale Browns books about the Old Dog or something like that.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: rogwar on November 17, 2010, 09:06:14 AM
Reschke I was just thinking of the same book. The name is Day of the Cheetah.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: ACE on November 17, 2010, 09:51:42 AM
 :pray
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: oakranger on November 17, 2010, 10:02:01 AM
Kinda hard to believe in this day and age that a military aircraft could just disappear like that; especially one as high tech as the F-22. However it could be that the missing pilot was placed here long ago as a young boy and was a deep cover agent who was programmed to make his way into the US military and become the best possible one that he could and he executed a theft of equipment for the Russians to start tearing apart to find out our secrets.

BTW that was done in one of Dale Browns books about the Old Dog or something like that.

Your not kidding.  How in the world could you loose and multi million dollar plane?
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Maverick on November 17, 2010, 10:55:16 AM
Kinda hard to believe in this day and age that a military aircraft could just disappear like that; especially one as high tech as the F-22. However it could be that the missing pilot was placed here long ago as a young boy and was a deep cover agent who was programmed to make his way into the US military and become the best possible one that he could and he executed a theft of equipment for the Russians to start tearing apart to find out our secrets.

BTW that was done in one of Dale Browns books about the Old Dog or something like that.

You know even as a troll this is pretty much inappropriate.

You do realize that not all airspace is covered by radar from ground level up to a respectable height. There is a lot of open uninhabited area in Alaska as well.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Serenity on November 17, 2010, 11:14:46 AM
You know even as a troll this is pretty much inappropriate.

You do realize that not all airspace is covered by radar from ground level up to a respectable height. There is a lot of open uninhabited area in Alaska as well.

I'm not sure this is really a troll. It IS a possibility, in fact I'm somewhat surprised we haven't heard about it happening before. As tough as it would be to pull off and as fantastical as it may sound, it sounds like a pretty nifty trick.

I'm not saying that happened, or that it's even a likely thought, just that it is a remote possibility, and not necessarily a troll.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Grayeagle on November 17, 2010, 11:53:51 AM
comes under the heading 'stuff happens'
.. Engineer Scotty summed it up beautifully when he stated words to the effect:
The more complicated you make it, the easier it is to break it.

When I was part of 4th TFW we had an F4 disappear on an ACM flight.
Was actually seen by an airliner off the coast in a flyby
.. I do not remember all the particulars, seem to recall they found the backseater hitchhiking back to base,
..front seater disappeared with the aircraft.
Backseater stated they suffered a complete failure of instruments/nav
..they were trying to follow the airliner back to any kind of airfield when engines flamed out
..presumed to have gone down somewhere off the coast of South Carolina.

Just one of many instances that happened
.. they are all cutting edge dream machines built by the cheapest bidder.
Stuff very much happens.

I pray they find the pilot .. Alaska is still a very big place.

-GE aka Frank
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Reschke on November 17, 2010, 02:47:48 PM
You know even as a troll this is pretty much inappropriate.

You do realize that not all airspace is covered by radar from ground level up to a respectable height. There is a lot of open uninhabited area in Alaska as well.

It wasn't a troll it was a possibility...btw if I wanted to troll for something it would be offshore in a large boat on the way to a great Red Snapper fishing spot.

I was thinking that with all the high tech stuff we have on these aircraft these days and all the satellites and other things that monitor all sorts of stuff that it would be pretty hard to have this just go missing.

Although I did have a buddy who was a RIO in an F-14 that just disappeared on the way back to the boat from a Bombcat mission in Afghanistan in late 2001 or early 2002.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 17, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
Your not kidding.  How in the world could you loose and multi million dollar plane?

There are so many plane crashes in Alaska that will never be found, one of the most famous is the plane crash that happened in the '70s with some congressman aboard. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Babalonian on November 17, 2010, 03:25:05 PM
I'm suspicious of this incident myself... that or very concerned for the pilot's health/safety atm.  Over friendly airspace aren't the F-22s supposed to have an IFF transponder running with ATC keeping track of them?  If it was a crash then they should have a pretty good idea of where the plane went down since it was supposed to be on friendly radar.  Sounds an aweful lot like a case of that F-22 not wanting to be found.  I also see that there is a good/fair possibility that the aircraft somehow lost all electronics and communications (including it's IFF), an unlucky lightning strike or something, and it maybe free-glided and crashed a good distance from it's last known position, but don't modern ejection seats come with their own emergency beacons and communication equipment?   The plane itself probabley has blackboxes and an emergency beacon on it too.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: AAJagerX on November 17, 2010, 03:58:08 PM
I'm suspicious of this incident myself... that or very concerned for the pilot's health/safety atm.  Over friendly airspace aren't the F-22s supposed to have an IFF transponder running with ATC keeping track of them?  If it was a crash then they should have a pretty good idea of where the plane went down since it was supposed to be on friendly radar.  Sounds an aweful lot like a case of that F-22 not wanting to be found.  I also see that there is a good/fair possibility that the aircraft somehow lost all electronics and communications (including it's IFF), an unlucky lightning strike or something, and it maybe free-glided and crashed a good distance from it's last known position, but don't modern ejection seats come with their own emergency beacons and communication equipment?   The plane itself probabley has blackboxes and an emergency beacon on it too.
Yeah, with the redundant systems on these birds you'd think it'd be pretty easy to find after a crash.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Maverick on November 17, 2010, 04:06:13 PM
I don't believe there is an emergency beacon on the bird other than in the chute pack in the case of ejecting. A simple crash while doing NOE flight (it was a practice flight) would be below radar, if there is a radar covering that area, and would preclude any ejection beacon. There is also the possibility that the beacon had a dead battery or was simply defective to boot.

Had there been a defection, and I find that to be a very unlikely possibility, there wouldn't even be any news that a plane was missing at all. At least until the folks that have it decided to brag about it.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Tec on November 17, 2010, 05:35:44 PM
Wreckage found.

[url]http://www.ktla.com/news/nationworld/ktuu-jber-says-f22-fighter-overdue-111710,0,5985692.story[url]
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: whipster22 on November 17, 2010, 05:46:03 PM
Wreckage found.


[url]http://www.ktla.com/news/nationworld/ktuu-jber-says-f22-fighter-overdue-111710,0,5985692.story]
 (http://www.ktla.com/news/nationworld/ktuu-jber-says-f22-fighter-overdue-111710,0,5985692.story[url=http://[/quote)
http://www.ktla.com/news/nationworld/ktuu-jber-says-f22-fighter-overdue-111710,0,5985692.story

Fixed your link  ;).
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: greens on November 17, 2010, 05:46:36 PM
There are so many plane crashes in Alaska that will never be found, one of the most famous is the plane crash that happened in the '70s with some congressman aboard. 

ack-ack
early 80s i think akak think last name was begich. marc begich is in alaskas politics think thats the congressman son, they still havent found the wreckage i think of that begich crash.
 and yes they found the wreckage of the F22 but no pilot yet.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: AAJagerX on November 17, 2010, 05:48:42 PM
 :pray For the pilot.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Babalonian on November 17, 2010, 06:17:45 PM
I hope the pilot made it out, but the signs don't look good.   :pray
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: RTR on November 17, 2010, 08:22:32 PM
Hopefully they will find the pilot.

Not picking up an emergency beacon yet may not be unusual for that area, depending on terrain and satellite coverage. The 406mhz beacons are much better and more easily picked up than the old 121.5 kits, but are dependent on coverage and may be shadowed by high terrain still.

Hope it turns out alright and he gets home.

RTR
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: 007Rusty on November 17, 2010, 08:23:10 PM
Found this in the local paper

Searchers in Alaska find wreck believed to be missing F-22 fighter

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/west/view/20101117alaska_military_base_searching_for_overdue_air_force_f-22/srvc=news&position=also
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 17, 2010, 08:30:05 PM
early 80s i think akak think last name was begich. marc begich is in alaskas politics think thats the congressman son, they still havent found the wreckage i think of that begich crash.
 and yes they found the wreckage of the F22 but no pilot yet.


Yeah, I think that's the one.  Supposedly crashed into a glacier, at least that's the FBI's theory.  I remember the documentary I saw about it and it mentioned that they looked in the area of some glacier where they think the plane might have gone down only to find a completely different plane that had been missing for years that no one knew about.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 17, 2010, 08:37:22 PM
Link in my OP is updated as the story develops, it will be up-to-date.

Reading that the pilot went through Arctic Survival Training (as I'm sure all pilots up here do) is reassuring. The weather has been pretty bad up here these past few days though, so the clock is ticking. I hope we find him/her soon  :frown:
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 17, 2010, 09:40:28 PM
The wreckage may have been found, though they are still unsure whether or not it's the craft they're looking for.

"We're going to ensure that was indeed a F-22 and that is the crash site," Air Force Col. Jack McMullen, Commander of the 3rd Wing, said. "As we work through this, we are doing an active search to try to find the pilot. Perhaps he ejected. Until we can find out whether he ejected from the airplane or is in the airplane itself, we do not know."

http://www.ktuu.com/news/ktuu-jber-says-f22-fighter-overdue-111710,0,4960192.story
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: stealth on November 17, 2010, 09:48:07 PM
Was driving near the base just 2 days ago. <S> F-22 pilots :pray :pray :pray :salute
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: RTHolmes on November 18, 2010, 05:18:31 AM
is it normal to fly sorties with just a single bird?
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Yossarian on November 18, 2010, 05:57:22 AM
is it normal to fly sorties with just a single bird?

I read that there were actually two of them - they were flying about 2 miles apart when one went missing.  The other F-22 then refueled and searched for the missing plane.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: RTHolmes on November 18, 2010, 06:10:04 AM
ok that makes more sense. you'd think that his wingmans radar would be able to pinpoint pretty accurately where he went down. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: MiloMorai on November 18, 2010, 07:32:08 AM
ok that makes more sense. you'd think that his wingmans radar would be able to pinpoint pretty accurately where he went down. :headscratch:

Stealth air superiority fighter???
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: RTHolmes on November 18, 2010, 08:09:50 AM
theyre stealthy, not cloaked :D

afaik modern A2A radars can see and track raptors ok, just not accurately or consistently enough to get a missile lock while they are maneuvering. I assume the raptors radar is at least capable of seeing another raptor within a few miles?
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Megalodon on November 18, 2010, 10:47:03 AM
early 80s i think akak think last name was begich. marc begich is in alaskas politics think thats the congressman son, they still havent found the wreckage i think of that begich crash.
 and yes they found the wreckage of the F22 but no pilot yet.


16 October 1972 - House Majority Leader Hale Boggs of Louisiana and Representative Nick Begich of Alaska were lost over Alaska. The two congressmen, the pilot, and the aircraft were never found, and they are presumed to be dead.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Nilsen on November 18, 2010, 10:54:22 AM
theyre stealthy, not cloaked :D

afaik modern A2A radars can see and track raptors ok, just not accurately or consistently enough to get a missile lock while they are maneuvering. I assume the raptors radar is at least capable of seeing another raptor within a few miles?

Radarski in glourious nation of kazakhstan can track the capitalist F22 from over 500 miles away!.  :aok
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Golfer on November 18, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
The aircraft that went down was using the radio ID of Rocky Three which would infer there was a flight of four. I'm told by some fighter guys that the wingman flew around, bingoed, hit a tanker and returned to the area to continue searching.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: skribetm on November 18, 2010, 11:25:19 AM
A helicopter spotted the wreckage at 10:15 a.m. but did not immediately land because of the threat of hazardous materials.

"It was being considered a haz-mat scene," Hayes said. "They had to get the right gear flown out there to the location so that the pararescuemen and the crash site recovery folks could safely get down there and do a search."

If the pilot ejected, he would be prepared for subzero weather, McMullen said.

"They have survival gear," McMullen said. "He's Arctic trained to survive in that environment. He's got the gear on. He's got stuff in his survival kit, so that he could hunker himself down and fight the extreme cold."

--------------

http://wapo.st/d1YIzH (http://wapo.st/d1YIzH)
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: JOACH1M on November 18, 2010, 11:46:19 AM
All this money goes into these planes, modern radar, and anything else they shove into these planes, HOW CAN'T  THEY FIND IT! hope they do before it's to late :pray
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: beau32 on November 18, 2010, 12:16:13 PM
It was a flight of two with the call signs of Rocky I and Rocky III. They were practicing ACM's about 100 miles north of base, which after they were to return with a two mile seperation so ATC could handle them as one call sign instead of two. Thats when radar contact was lost. The wingman lost communications with the plane. After searching, he refueled from a tanker and continued the search but to no avail. Plane wreckage was discovered, but not the pilot. 
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: eagl on November 19, 2010, 08:02:13 AM
Missing pilot identified as Capt Jeffrey Haney

http://us.cnn.com/2010/US/11/19/alaska.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T2
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Reschke on November 19, 2010, 09:10:22 AM
WOW still no sign of the pilot. That is kinda weird but not having seen photos of the wreckage you have no idea of the possibility of the state of remains if there are any. Back when I was a freshman in college I witnessed an F4 Phantom pancake into a hill side after shearing off the wing tips. Pieces and parts of the pilot and back seater were located within hours of the crash. There were more than a few aircraft crashes in and around my parents house over the years with planes coming up out of Columbus AFB and Pensacola NAS since they would come play in the air over that region.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: greens on November 19, 2010, 01:01:03 PM
When Mcgrath was a airforce base years ago, id watch all kinds of aircraft fly over my village. got to see F4 phantoms, F15s, F16s, A10 warthogs, refueling planes, even a P-38 <2 of them> they danced above our vilage n showed of what they can do, look like the planes were dogfiting each other. and the best of all last yr i got to see 2 F22s going faster than any jet i ever seen ever. condolences to the family of missing pilot.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: greens on November 19, 2010, 09:17:50 PM
sad ending, condolences to the family n friends who lost a great pilot. <S> ELMENDORF AFB n family
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 19, 2010, 10:12:27 PM
 :frown:

"The Air Force says the state Department of Transportation cleared nearly 75 miles of roadway along the Denali Highway for Army convoys to get through."

...

"Col. Jack McMullen, commander of Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson’s 3rd Wing, says finding part of the ejection seat at the crash site shows that Haney didn’t eject from the aircraft before crashing, leading officials to believe he did not survive.

The Air Force was joined by the Alaska National Guard and the Army in the search, but McMullen says it’s now a recovery operation."

...

"McMullen says there’s a safety team in place collecting and securing evidence of the crash, and there are about 130 people near the crash site.

“It’s in a valley, between a ridge and -- it’s basically a 18 to 20-foot round hole, and it’s got water freeze-over,” McMullen said. “There are some parts of the airplane outside that, but the majority of the airplane is going beneath the earth so it’s going to require some effort to get the airplane out.” "

http://www.ktuu.com/news/ktuu-searchers-plan-to-reach-f22-si-111910,0,5408424.story
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: MachFly on November 20, 2010, 03:00:18 AM
So he did not eject and they can't find the pilot? How do they know if he did not survive without finding the body?
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Nilsen on November 20, 2010, 03:03:07 AM
Didnt they say that alot of the aircraft was still under ground Machfly? People and planeparts can still be under ground somewhere and if the ground has frozen it will take some time to recover everything.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: MachFly on November 20, 2010, 03:05:47 AM
Didnt they say that alot of the aircraft was still under ground Machfly? People and planeparts can still be under ground somewhere and if the ground has frozen it will take some time to recover everything.

Yeah your probably right. I'd like the read the official air force report (when it comes out), wonder what caused it.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Yossarian on November 20, 2010, 05:33:07 AM
Didnt they say that alot of the aircraft was still under ground Machfly? People and planeparts can still be under ground somewhere and if the ground has frozen it will take some time to recover everything.
So he did not eject and they can't find the pilot? How do they know if he did not survive without finding the body?

http://www.jber.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123231774 (http://www.jber.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123231774)  :salute
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Maverick on November 20, 2010, 10:39:48 AM
Fair skies and tailwinds forever Capt.  Rest in peace.  :salute
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: MachFly on November 20, 2010, 01:52:05 PM
 :salute
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Dichotomy on November 20, 2010, 02:13:27 PM
 :pray :salute
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Golfer on November 20, 2010, 02:35:58 PM
So he did not eject and they can't find the pilot? How do they know if he did not survive without finding the body?

What do you think you'll find if your tactical jet lawndarts while you're hauling bellybutton down in the weeds?  There won't be a body.

Tailwinds, Captain.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on November 20, 2010, 03:26:20 PM
Never planed, but sir..you went out doing something you love for our people and this nation.  :rock :salute
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: 007Rusty on November 20, 2010, 03:54:19 PM
 :salute  :pray
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Lye-El on November 20, 2010, 06:14:54 PM
So he did not eject and they can't find the pilot? How do they know if he did not survive without finding the body?

I read they found parts of the ejection seat which means it never left the aircraft and pieces of the pilots flight suit. Also some of his survival gear.
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: Serenity on November 20, 2010, 09:32:50 PM
 :salute
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: bcadoo on November 20, 2010, 10:44:32 PM
Looks like an almost vertical impact:

(http://www.jber.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/101117-F-3745E-005.jpg)
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 20, 2010, 11:26:35 PM
My stepdad (UH-60 Crewchief/Mechanic) says the general talk around base is, the aircraft impacted around 1,000 knts.

If he didn't bail, he didn't make it. Still waiting for concrete evidence  :pray
Title: Re: Alaska F-22 MIA
Post by: skribetm on November 21, 2010, 11:31:01 PM
 :salute:angel::salute
clear, blue skies ahead Capt. Haney