Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on September 04, 2001, 01:40:00 AM
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I'm assuming that the plane will be perked in a few months. They'll let it have its 6 months of dominance, then they'll perk it. My guess is the LA7, because thats widely considered to be the 2nd "best" plane in the arena. Anyone else care to hazard a guess?
P.S. This IS a "niki-whine" thread, for those of you that are keeping track of em. I'm tired of seeing them all over the place again. I don't care if perking it rips it from the planes that "newbies" can fly. If I never see another N1K2 again I'll die a happy man.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
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#1. Pathetic
#2. Who gives a toejam?
SOB
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My my SOB- I guess that therapy is really doing the trick.
And #2- obviously someone "gives a toejam"... since SOMEONE responded to the thread. Oh wait, you are just screaming for attention to, nevermind. :rolleyes:
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P.S. This IS a "niki-whine" thread, for those of you that are keeping track of em.
Yup, you sound like TAC. Pointless and stupid.
Carry on....
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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Way off base. It's obvious that I'm screaming for attention because I haven't searched out a good therapist yet!
SOB
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Originally posted by Creamo:
P.S. This IS a "niki-whine" thread, for those of you that are keeping track of em.
Yup, you sound like TAC. Piontless and stupid.
Carry on....
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
LOL... I think you meant "pointless"? Use a spellchecker, it helps to make sure you don't look like what you are accusing others of being.
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I saw More Fw190s today than I did N1K2s.
Go figure.
What percentage of this tour's kills were awarded to the N1K2?
EDIT; I think that the N1K2 would make a very, very bad perk plane. It is so slow that it hasn't a prayer of reaching saftey when it gets in trouble. No matter how you fly, you'll quickly lose control of the fight.
The F4U-1C is much better off in that regards.
BTW, the answer to your question is "Spitfire Mk IX" as is clearly demostrated by its firm grip on second place.
Once you convince them to perk the Spit IX it'll be the P-51D, then the La-7, then the Typhoon, then th.......
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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Originally posted by Urchin:
[QB]
LOL..Im think Im so sappy I can lol over nothing, Im a fool..QB]
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Originally posted by Creamo:
blah, blah, blah, blah.. blah.
[QB][/QB]
Actually Creamo, I was laughing at you. It is so amusing to me to see you have a second-rate intellect to go with your second-rate piloting skill.
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Originally posted by Karnak:
I saw More Fw190s today than I did N1K2s.
Go figure.
What percentage of this tour's kills were awarded to the N1K2?
EDIT; I think that the N1K2 would make a very, very bad perk plane. It is so slow that it hasn't a prayer of reaching saftey when it gets in trouble. No matter how you fly, you'll quickly lose control of the fight.
The F4U-1C is much better off in that regards.
BTW, the answer to your question is "Spitfire Mk IX" as is clearly demostrated by its firm grip on second place.
Once you convince them to perk the Spit IX it'll be the P-51D, then the La-7, then the Typhoon, then th.......
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
Actually, I think the Spit would retain 1st place for a month (maybe)- then the N1K pilots would begin to switch to the LA7. Just my intuition, but I think I'm right on it. Just because right now the "best" plane in the MA is a turner doesn't mean the folks that just want to fly the "best" plane are addicted to turners, they are addicted to flying the "best" plane. Since the tour isn't quite over yet, it'll be tough to get a total % of kills, but I'm bored and I can't sleep, so I'll try to work it out real quick.
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Well, as near as I can figure, the N1K2's total % of kills when you include everything (ships, bombers, GVs) was 11.58%.
I decided to cut out the Bombers, GV's, and ship guns and ended up with 158,863 kills total. This should be the total fighter to fighter kills (the kill number including everything was 205,896). Of this, the N1K2 ended up with 11.82% of the kills. I'm not sure I'm totally correct, I may have messed something up (statistics really isn't my ballgame).
The Ta-152 ended up with .1% of the total kills using this method. I'll keep putting in other planes, I'm still bored.
SpitIX had 8.95%.
La7 had 6.53%.
P-51D had 7.1%.
109G10 had 3.16%.
C.202 had .2%.
Anyway, thats just using my method of calculating total fighter to fighter kills. I think it is right, but I may have made an error somewhere and not realized it. When I'm really bored I'll go back and do this for the C-Hog, before it got perked.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
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Urchin, don't reply to stupid replies to your thread, it seems a few people enjoy constantly annoying anyone who posts threads against the poor n1k2-j.
I have a funny feeling that the n1k wont be changed much and HT yesterday stated that it will NOT be perked.
I was looking at the kill stats the other day for various people who are recognized as good sticks in the MA and for every one I randomly picked out, the greatest death by plane type was N1K. Every single one had most deaths from the N1K.
It should be perked, HTC should realise this, and probably do but maybe don't want to perk it due to its popularity with the easy kill crowd.
<S>
cya
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BTW guess which plane killed Fester the most this tour?
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Well... if it's the N1K2... then two of Fester's deaths can be attributed to me. Thank you. Thank you very much. :D
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This is stupid.
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11.82% ?
is'nt enough to perk the N1k1, IMHO.
I really hate that plane, but imho dont have to be perked.... at the moment.
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Urchin, why do you insist on the La7 being the "2nd" best plane when even your own calculations shows it not to be?
I also noticed you listed it 2nd in your list when it should have been 3rd, bringing it to 4th overall.
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maybe we could program the game to only allow a certain amount of 1 type to up at any particular base.in other words if there are 5-10 niks in a 50 mile zone the plane becomes temporarily unavailable? once the other niks leave the area they become available?
to be honest although i do hate to fight niks they havent become a major drain on my fun online.I get more annoyed with the strange damage behaviour to be honest.
why are we wasting time on the nik subject anyhow?we all know its somewhat wrong in its FM.anyone who doesnt agree obviously flies them :)
if you hate niks so much go to the CT :)
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I believe HT said they are going to correct the modeling of the Nik2.
ATC
(http://www.damned.org/images/ddemo1.gif)
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What ammo said. Well SOB said it too. And ATC nailed it shut (for now?)
Westy
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we could get rid of all the LW planes and then all the nik whining would stop without even perking it.
oh, I would imagine that most of those who like the nik would switch to the spit instead of the lag as the spit acts more like a nik so far as guns turn and speed.
lazs
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"When in Rome, do as the Romans do..."
Spit will succeed the N1K.
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Well Urchin considering your doing better than a 2 - 1 kill rate vs the N1k I fail to perceive a valid cause for your whine ?
However if your bored and just fishing, well carry on :)
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Heheheh, why don't you all switch to CT?
Air is fresher, grass is greener... :D
Did I mention no N1K2? :D
Cheers,
Pepe
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I'd be happy if all the n1k whiners left for the CT, also.
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HT said it wont be perked. I would believe him. Lets see what it looks like when the FM has been shimmed a little.
They should look at its durability and its ability to fly damaged. It is really dangourous whith a wing tip damaged(or maybe its pilots are more skilled?). Most other planes are barely flyable.
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I'm actually quite happy that the whiners are staying in the MA so far...
I'll start thinking about the N1K when it comes to the CT but then again... N1K wasen't a problem for me when I flew MA either...
whatever,
Effdub
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Originally posted by Fatty:
I'd be happy if all the n1k whiners left for the CT, also.
Excellent point Mr Fatster!! I was gonna say the same thing. HTC gives you a "N1K-free" arena and you still dont populate it. Friggin' whiners... :rolleyes:
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Well, if the N1K gets perked it will most certainly be the Spit IX that is next in line.
I side with Apache in asking, why is the LA7 thrown in here? Next time your in one get low and slow then jerk the stick hard, loose control, I thought so. The LA7 is nothing more than a good energy fighter with a hell of a climb and speed at low altitudes. IMO it is one step above the YAK for the affective gun range. If you’re not within D300, don’t waste your amo. The LA7 is not near as forgiving as either the Spit or the N1K.
As for perking it, I believe HTC said the FM of the N1K would be adjusted with the 1.08 release.
Of course I think some of you wont be happy until you have to pay perks to fly a goon :rolleyes:
Zippatuh
President and CEO of UPCHUC, throwing up on whiners somewhere near you!
(Un-Perk the C-Hog United Campaign)
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I think the major problem with the so called whining and repeated N1K posts is that there is very little official response to posts regarding plane fms, damage models etc. Have'nt once seen anyone give any real information or proper response regarding the n1ks unbelieveble ability to take damage, climb, dive, kill or turn. Nor has there been adaquate response to what is going to happen to n1k in 1.08, HTC seem very closed to the users in this regard, not only with the N1K but with all mod questions such as the m3 killin panzer, 1 ping p51 track kills on gvs etc.
Would be nice if someone at HTC or a designated volunteer from amongst the AH community would spend a little time answering questions posed by the AH community regarding these types of questions.
Did the N1K really possess these attributes, anyone have any data / links to n1k info? Would really like to read up on it.
Cya
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because of all the talk about the n1k2 , i tried it for the first time last night ,for base defense (defending A55 against 80 bish)
wow, what a great plane, i'm going to use it for base defense all the time now , thanks for letting me know what a great plane it is
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Zygote, by the same token, I've yet to see very little real evidence to the ufo manuevers that by my MA experience tend to have campfire tales levels of embellishment.
If you want to see a UFO bad enough, then a simple cessna at night qualifies. If you want to see the george do the impossible bad enough, then of course, every time one shoots you it's going to be one of these hung on the prop for 27 minutes, then reversed and accelerated to 500 mph, then pulled inside my plane which was only going 100, and shot me in one ping.
The only actual aces high test data I've seen on the subject shows the Aces High n1k2 as a moderate at best accelerater, and a moderate at best zoomer.
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wow, after Zygote made his statement about what has killed you the most.. I checked my stats....
killed by:
m16 8
Spit9 9
Typh 9
n1k 18
kills of:
m16 11
Spit9 28
Typh 9
n1k 17
kills in:
m16 9
spit9 1
typh 17
n1k 0 (died in: 0 +)
OMG lol, didn't think i was gettin it so often from them things.
SKurj
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N1K, F4U1C and P47D11 are all admitted by PYRO to be in need of rework (i.e. BROKEN)
Feel free to fly what you want. Rape your moms poodle while your at it for all I care. If you take a privy to gaming in broke machines then you are a dweebs dweeb.
<S>
Y
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Yeager ]
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F4U-1C is broke, not only alittle too light, but it lacks the historic zooming ability..once fixed, it'll really be a terror. :)
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Without a doubt : La7. Its engine allows the pilot to recover quickly from any screw up of their part to either run or regain their E.Good for average pilot to fly and learn ACM as well... and get kills too.
That's why they will go to it vs. the spit. Spits are sweet rides but only deadly if the pilot knows how to handle it (heck, just knowing that 36DD is in the same sector as I am makes me engage ANY spit reeeeal carefully).
Zygote: You nailed it right on target on your first post. Both parts of it.
Yeager, thats exactly what I think.
Checked my own stats.. In order of which killed me the most: n1k, la7, spitIX, F4U-D & 109G10 tie in the last place. 2:1 ratio vs n1k in my favor.. dont know what it would be like if I hadnt vulched so many of them mwhaahahaha :D
And creamo, even with your sad need to bring up my name to insult someone else, I still love you man! Makes me thank the universe for reminding me there are lower life forms *G* ;) :D :D (j/k)
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Originally posted by SKurj:
wow, after Zygote made his statement about what has killed you the most.. I checked my stats....
killed by:
m16 8
Spit9 9
Typh 9
n1k 18
kills of:
m16 11
Spit9 28
Typh 9
n1k 17
kills in:
m16 9
spit9 1
typh 17
n1k 0 (died in: 0 +)
OMG lol, didn't think i was gettin it so often from them things.
SKurj
formula= point AC at furball (most popular place in MA..and admittingly a lot of fun), fight in furball, amny furball type planes there (N1K2, Spit, Zero, LA7..etc), die in furball after hoping you took a few with you :)
no wonder the number is high, not rocket science.
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Without a doubt: Spit. It's turn ability is better than the George. It has excellent E retention and a decent gun package. Good for average pilot to fly and learn ACM as well...and get kills too.
That's why they will go to it vs. the La7. La7's are sweet rides but only deadly if the pilot knows how to handle it (heck, just knowing ghosth is in the same sector as I am makes me engage ANY La7 reeeal carefully).
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Apache ]
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agreed fatty, need some evidence of uberness, will try record some, have seen N1K do some amazing things.
And all you whiner taggers don't accuse me of being a whiner about the n1k, cause my main ride is the Tiffie and i'm 5 - 1 in my favour vs N1K. N1K is Tiffie dinner. Only time N1K get me in Tiffie is when I'm taking off or landing. La7 is my worst nitemare however. Need rear gunner in Typh for that evil ruski crate.
BTW Zipputah, goon should be perked, one outturned me last week and then rammed me. Bastage!!!!
cya
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The reason I say the la7 is the second "best" plane in the game is because in my opinion, it is the best performing energy fighter. It was made to fight at low levels, which is where the action takes place at in the MA.
Under 7k- (which is where 90% of the fights are)
-the La7 is the fastest plane in the set.
-the La7 is one of the top three climbers.
-the La7 outturns anything that can come close to its top speed.
-the La7 has outstanding acceleration.
-the La7 has a good roll rate.
Its weak points, as I see them, are-
-the La7 has a rather small clip, and not much of a punch unless you get in close.
-the La7 lacks the range of many other fighters.
The Spit, on the other hand, I don't see as being that formidable. So if I was a 1337 Niki pilot, I'd choose the La7 as giving me the biggest advantage possible. Hell, it is the plane I pick when I go out looking for easy kills.
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The next plane they move to will be the one that gives them the most enjoyment.
Drex
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<S> Urchin. Ok, your opinion. Gotcha, no problemo, however in your initial post, you stated that the La7 was "widely" considered the 2nd best plane in the arena. The areas at which you listed I agree with. That is what the La7 was built for but it is not a turn fighter. Most N1k guys must be turn fighters 'cause the George sure ain't no e fighter. If they hop in an La7 and start turn fightin', they are in for a rude awakening. They will, IMHO, go to the spit.
I guess it comes down to where, when and how one flies. I for one very rarely get shot down by an La7, even when I fly the P51B. I get it more from the N1K, the spit and the P51D, it varies from tour to tour which gets me the most.
I'm still going to take anyone to task who generalizes statements about an aircraft. You nor I speak for a majority I don't think.
Easy kills? lol, fly a P51B if you want easy.
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My suggestion to you Urchin is this....
Work on your skills and kill niki's instead of whinin about them.
The La-7 is the ONLY plane in AH's plane set that concerns me at all...I've dealt with it by working harder and flying smarter...to perk it would only take away the thrill of fighting it.
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I'd agree with you Rude, except, well, I don't agree with you :).
If you take my 190A8 stats out of the equation, I actually did quite well against the N1K2 last tour. You want to know why I dislike the N1K2? I'll give you God's honest truth there. Plus I'll do it in a chart form.
109F4 Vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 95%.
109G2 Vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 90%.
109G6 Vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 95%.
109G10 Vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 75%.
190A5 vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 90%.
190A8 vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 99%.
190D9 vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 65%.
190F8 vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 99%.
Those are the planes I like to fly. Maybe I have a hormonal imbalance, I don't know. I've always thought the 190 and 109 were great looking birds. Unfortunately, they aren't the most capable birds in the arena- but I can deal with that.
What I get fed up with is how people who want to fly the 109 or 190 are given two choices. You can fly the 109G10, or you can fly the 190D9. You CAN fly the other versions, but you will get your bellybutton handed to you by a quarter of the planes you see, pilot skill nonwithstanding.
The 109F4,G2, and G6 HAVE NO STRENGTHS compared to the N1K2. They aren't faster (at least not to the point where you can run away safely), they accelerate slower, they climb roughly the same, the N1K2 will outzoom them, the N1K2 will outturn them easily, the N1K2 will outdive them. Oh, the N1K2 will outroll them to.
Same goes for the 190A5 and the 190A8, they are both dogmeat going into a fight with a N1K2, no matter what the relative energy states are.The only thing a 190 can do better than a N1K2 is roll, and that does jack in this case, at least in my opinion.
You guys CAN say "Well, u r a toejamty pilot, u need to go to TA and polish up ur skillz" but it ain't true. The 190D9 can kill N1K2's, or I suppose more importantly it can run away from them so you don't die as often, but you are pretty much SOL if you want to fly something other than the D9 or G10 (and even the G10 isn't a sure bet).
The only "skillz" I need to polish up is gunnery. I'll admit that my gunnery isn't so hot. But as far as piloting goes, I'm just as good as any of you guys are.
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Sorry Rude, same arguement was used with the perking of the Chog..won't work..say bye bye to the N1K (or at least bye bye to its performance)
WHo's next? Spit? LA7? :)
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I'd agree with you -ammo- if i was a fur flyer.. I generally avoid the furball areas of the map like the plague...
Will say one thing though, I have been flyin in the morning (EST) and at that time quite a few PAC players are on feeding the national bird as it were +) (don't blame em, yanks like US iron...)
SKurj
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HTC will not perk anymore of the existing plane set...just a gut hunch on my part.
I don't know what to tell ya Urch...got to deal with it...the way I deal with it is hunt what I hate.
Heyas Rip...again, I don't think they'll perk any of these rides...tweak the FM perhaps, but no perking.
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Do you know why they perked the C-hog? (If you answer 'guns' you fail)
I would expect them to perk the N1K for the same reason if they are to be consistent in their software management decisions.
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As far as I know, they perked it because of its usage. I'd rather see them unperk it, then the N1K2 drivers can go back to their first love.
And rude- your cavalier attitude towards the N1K2 probably stems from the fact that you fly the P51D. I know when I was flying the Dora the N1K2 didn't bother me because I could simply run from it. Give the P38 or maybe the F6F a shot for a tour, see if you don't get tired of N1K2's then?
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I think all pilots have their "Achilles heal" planes. Mine is still the C-hawg. Dunno why, I just let it in range too much.
The N1K is usually just another kill for me. Granted, there are more of them in the arena. Don't get me wrong, I feel the same way about N1K drivers as I did spit9 drivers in warbirds 2 years ago. At that time, the spit9 was the owner of the arena. Everybody and their brother flew spit9's at that time. It was by far the easiest plane there. I remember posting a whine on AGW back then about the amazing ability of the spit 9, I got stackpiled for it too. :D Whenever I killed a spit9 in my 109G, it was a triumph indeed. I carry the same attitude much of the time now, if I kill an N1K, I usually go back around and smoke his chute. Don't know why, it just feels right! :p
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Amen HBLAIR! N1k chutes are yummy...even green ones! :)
"If you answer 'guns' you fail"
Ermm.. if the answer was "it was flown too much in comparison of the other planes in the set AND because it was getting an obscene % of kills when compared with other planes" then it was a matter of popularity. Take a guess why it was popular? GUNS.
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Urchin....
Last tour I was 35-7 against the niki.
Now if you expect all planes to perform the same and are looking for a fair fight, well, your kidding yourself.
Life's not fair and the sooner you realize that the happier you'll be. :)
The pony has speed true, but it pales in many areas...I do not fight others on their terms...if they don't like it, thats just too bad.
It's amusing to me at best when folks complain about me not turn fighting them in their spitV....please.
Your destiny is in your own hands...to legislate change in an effort to achieve parity is just plain silly.
You sound like you believe anything which outperforms your ride should be perked...maybe I just misunderstood you eh? :D
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"I usually go back around and smoke his chute. Don't know why, it just feels right!
Cod bless you sir. Another kindred spirit!
I guess it's like giving the bum a kick in the arse to help 'em out the door after he's already been doubled over. Insult added to injury :)
My only regret is not having been able to do it more myself.
Westy
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Urchin,
The La7 has a good, instantaneous turn rate. Its sustained turn rate seems to me, to be about average.
It's roll rate is good at high speed. But it drops off fairly steeply with decreasing speed.
It's rate of climb isn't the best, as you mentioned.
It's speed is the best at about 5k. Any higher and it is soon outclassed. On the deck it is fastest, but is very closely followed by the P-51 and particularly the Dora.
It's range is appalling, and is probably the worst for any fighter in AH (maybe barring the Yak).
It has little ammo and even less if you don't know how to use it.
Lastly, its view out of the cockpit is the worst in AH, IMO.
I don't believe it will have the appeal of the N1K fraternity, should it be perked. Also, you don't have any authority to speak for the whole community regarding the '2nd best plane' in the set.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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I told you all... no one paid a lick of attention... nor did they acknowledge what I said... Of course though, I was wrong.
I mean, when the F4U-1C was perked I said that the next plane or planes with perceived (real or not) advantages over what you fly will be the next in the hunt.
Of course I was repeatedly told I was wrong and that wouldn't happen because perking the F4U-1C would diversify the arena.
Yes...... well I told you so.
-SW
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Well, it's at least nice to hear that HT mentioned in the arena that he wouldn't perk it...hopefully that was a real quote and in context. :)
And of course the reason most flew the F4U-1C was the guns. Why else would you fly that god aweful turd of an airplane???
SOB
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SOB my man, there is no real good reason to perk the N1K. Now maybe the KI-84 as a perk candidate, or maybe the A7M. However that would be left unseen. The N1K..even with the stats that urchin posted..still is not perk material. If someone liekto mix it up close with N1K's they get dead. If ya beat him with your strengths, no problem. Sometimes I juts go Hail mary andd dive in to a furball and pay the price by N1K's.
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Urchin,
Your K/D ration against the N1K2-J when in a Bf109G-10 or an Fw190D-9 should be heavily favorable. If its not, you need to learn how to fly those aircraft better. They are both much faster and much better at climbing. You can dictate the terms of the fight to the N1K2.
The things that killed me most this in Tour 19:
P-51D/N1K2: 8 each
La-7: 6
PT Boat: 5
Spitfire MkIX/M16: 4 each
Of those I killed:
N1K2: 10
Spitfire MkIX: 7
La-7/P-51D: 5 each
PT Boat: 4
M16: 1
The F4U-1C was perked because it was getting about 20% of the kills each Tour. If the N1K2 got about 11.5% of the kills in Tour 19 it doesn't even approach perking.
Personally, I think that the two best fighters in the MA right now are the La-7 and P-51D. People are just addicted to turning. But if they want a good K/D ration, they'd use an La-7 or P-51D. They are both great rides.
Getting in a huff about the N1K2 having the most kills against you is silly. N1K2s are the most common aircraft, hence they will usually have the most kills against a given person. Essentially when you say its the most common aircraft and then talk about what killed you most you are talking about the same thing from different angles. Its one argument, not two.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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I'm with you, Swulfe. You didn't have to be Nostradomus to see where the perking thing would go...
You will always see people whining for planes to be perked. They will move right on down the line. Not their fault really, if they weren't whining about this it would be something else.
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I went 8 and 1 vs. the N1K2 in the Dora last tour. I fairly sure I know how to fly the plane reasonably well.
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it may not be as uber as everyone holds BUT i can't believe that the nik's abilities are 100% pure social construction.
people flock to it for a reason - if it is really on an exactly equal performance plane with the other turner a/c then why is it so popular? because it does offer an advantage. not "the campfire legends of yor", but a subtle and discernable edge in most dogfight scenarios.
why worry now though? when the advantage is smoothed out (1.08) things should be fine. if not - then complain.
if people don't see anything with a clear advantage they will move on. those that still feel good in the nik will stay there but the numbers should seek a stable ratio naturally so it shouldn't be any concern.
i don't think the la7 or spit offer a clear enough advantage to draw everyone like the nik did. i have high hopes actually.
i've seen a lot more variety lately anyway. i'm still calling for voluntary dispersion instead of flock behavior so we don't have to see any more of these threads. :)
[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: mrfish ]
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Urchin,
Then it looks like you exagerated this statement quite a bit:
190D9 vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 65%
If you went 8 and 1 afainst the N1K2 in the Fw190D-9 it sure doesn't look like a 65% victory rate for the N1K2.
As far as the aircraft like the Bf109F-4 and Fw190A-5 go, I would hope the N1K2 would have the advantage, its a late 1944 aircraft. Do you think Japanese aircraft suck or something?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, which aircraft, that has a realistic shot at it, would you like to be the top dog?
I myself am quite content for it to be the N1K2. It is an aircraft that punishes you for making a mistake by killing you. Almost all aircraft in AH can outrun it and that mean that, unless it has a major altitude advantage, it can't control the fight. If its not the N1K2, it'll go to the Spitfire MkIX (not much of a change) or the P-51D or La-7. With the P-51D and La-7 almost no aircraft will be able to withdraw. They will completely dominate the fight in the areas that give an aircraft control of the fight. With one of the very fast aircraft being the most common the entire arena will be forced to speed up because the slower aircraft will be revealed for the death traps that they are.
I think that the N1K2 makes a great top dog aircraft. Its fun for beginners, but its so slow that most aircraft can control the fight if flown right.
I cannot think of an aircraft better suited to the top spot, from the point of view of both those who fly it and those who fly against it, than the N1K2-J Shiden-Kai.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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Well, I worked out the kill % for the planes in Tour 15 (the tour before the C-Hog got perked).
Total (including bombers, GV's)- 169,563 kills.
F4U-1c: 16.3%
N1K2: 7.64%
Spit9: 6.92%
La7: 4.32%
Once you discard the bombers and GV kills, you are left with 127,903 kills.
F4U-1c: 14.69%
N1K2: 8.15%
Spit9: 7.37%
La7: 4.47%
So, fighter to fighter, the N1K2 is 3% away from where the C-Hog was when it got perked. Including the bombers and GV totals, it is about 4% away.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
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It's hard for me to say really. If I had to pick, I'd say the Spitfire IX. Just about every plane I fly can get away from one if you get in trouble, which I can't say for the La7 or N1K2.
I wouldn't mind seeing the P51 take the top spot, but the La7 is so superior to it I doubt that it would ever happen.
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Urchin,
I really don't see a difference between the Spit IX and N1K2 save that the Spit is faster higher up.
The P-51D being the most popular would probably make me cancel my account, as would the La-7. They would render all the aircraft I like dead meat. They outclimb, outrun, out dive every aircraft I like and they out turn many of the aircraft I like. I already think that the MA is too fasr, I'd hate to see it dominated by one of those.
Fly the P-51D a bit. The thing is incredible.
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I flew it a little bit last tour, I think I went 7 and 1 in it. But my record against it was a TON better than my record against the N1K2... but my 190A8 fetish played a large role in my crappy record vs. the N1K2. Apparently, the N1K2 is just to much of a target, the A8 doesn't have a chance :)- no matter how much I wish it would.
The only thing the P51D has going for it is its speed. I generally don't have much trouble with it in a 109 or 190, I can see how it would be a pain in the butt if you were flying a Spitfire though. Maybe you'll get lucky and get the Spit XIV or F. 21- they'd be the instant favorites of the arena, but if HTC ain't going to perk the N1K2 then there is no reason to perk the Spit XIV or F. 21. In fact, I wish they'd unperk the C-Hog. I'd get pissed at seeing all the C-Hogs around, but they are way easier to kill than N1K2s are.
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Urchin,
I disagree.
I can run from an N1K2, I can't run from an F4U-1C, Spitfire MkXIV or Spitfire F.21.
I honestly don't want to see the Spitfire MkXIV in AH at this point, let alone the F.21.
I think the MA is already unpleasantly fast. I certainly don't want it to be faster.
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does this sound like our n1k2-j?
"The Shiden Kai was to become perhaps the best all-round fighter to be operational in the Pacific theatre. It was fast, powerful, and maneuverable, and was well-armed and armored. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Shiden-Kai was the equal of any Allied fighter, even the later models of the P-51 Mustang which began to appear over Japan in the spring of 1945. In one notable action, on February 16 1945 over Yokohama, Warrant Officer Kinsuke Muto of the 343rd Kokutai in an N1K2-J single-handedly battled a dozen F6F Hellcats. He shot down four of them before the rest were forced to break off combat and return to their carrier. "
yep :(
N1K Info #1 (http://www.nasm.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/kawanish_n1k2.htm)
N1K Info #2 (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap18a.htm)
N1K Info #3 (http://navismagazine.com/demo/shiden-kai/shiden-kai.htm)
N1K Info #4 (http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/n1k.html)
[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Zygote ]
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Hmm just checked stats for last tour... Got kill death ratio in my favorite ride (Typhoon) 5:1 against N1K :) I agree that there is something wrong about them and that a lot of dweebs are flying them but Im not affraid of them :D
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Originally posted by Zygote:
In one notable action, on February 16 1945 over Yokohama, Warrant Officer Kinsuke Muto of the 343rd Kokutai in an N1K2-J single-handedly battled a dozen F6F Hellcats. He shot down four of them before the rest were forced to break off combat and return to their carrier.
Zygote,
This story has been shown to be false. It has been repeated so often that it has come to be generally accepted as true, but it isn't.
The other data you posted is pretty good. The N1K2-J was a very, very good low altitude fighter and in the hands of a capable pilot would hand a Hellcat its arse. It was tough and manuverable with tremendous firepower and good speed.
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ahh darn propagandarists!!!!! :D
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
I told you all... no one paid a lick of attention... nor did they acknowledge what I said... Of course though, I was wrong.
I mean, when the F4U-1C was perked I said that the next plane or planes with perceived (real or not) advantages over what you fly will be the next in the hunt.
Of course I was repeatedly told I was wrong and that wouldn't happen because perking the F4U-1C would diversify the arena.
Yes...... well I told you so.
-SW
I was with you in this prediction as well. Remember, I was the vocal one when the Chog guns were way overmodeled, then HTC toned them down. Most were happy, but a couple months afterward when the Navy hit AH, it became a popular plane due to AC carriers..a vocal few who couldn't 'handle' taking on a Chog whined, and now we are to our 2nd plane possibly being either perked or FM altered. (sigh)
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The debate over perk planes and uber planes will never end because this is the first place where every sort of matchup, historical and fantasy, can be done.
High alt interceptors, dogfighters, fighter bombers and everything in between can be matched to see which dominates, but even then victory still depends on the individual battle circumstances.
Usually numbers and speed still prevail, but sometimes a solo artist will demonstrate amazing mastery, e.g., a 109 orbiting an enemy base and picking off challengers one by one, and still somehow managing to evade vengeful pursuers and land all those kills.
I vote for everyone being allowed to use every plane free, including the perk ones, at least a couple times each tour. The arenas are large enough that everyone should be able to find the kind of fight they want somewhere. Of course, that's pretty much what we have in the present perk system, except newbies might find it difficult to accumulate enough points soon enough.
After awhile, it's easy to get tired of the uber planes and gain more satisfaction with one 202 victory than with 10 Niki wins. Every fight is different, and as in all sports, the most important thing is the NEXT action, not the last one.
The evolution of the combat arena should provide the more historical matchups some people prefer while the main arena teems with unlimited power fantasy matchups of every persuasion.
These perk threads once again illustrate the terrific job Aces High has done in modeling aircraft many of us had no or little knowledge of until we got a chance to actually try them out. Marvelous education as well as great fun.
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Halo, I'm with ya...as Toad says, "Fly what you like, like what you fly..." If ya don't like getting shot down by such and such type A/C that dominates yours, then by God go get the same type of A/C and go back and shoot him down with his own plane. :) MA is for ALL plane types, CT, TOD, Snap Shots and Scenarios like this are for limited plane sets.
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THE GOVERMENT!
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14 kills in F4U-D against 4 deaths to N1K2 (tour 19)
4 kills P51D against 1 death to N1K2 (tour 19)
Some numbers where thrown out, I though I’d throw some. BTW, if the zoom/climb gets fixed on the F4U in 1.08 I’m thinking some 51 pilots are gonna be dog meat since the hog is/was a much better aircraft than the mustang! ;)
Agreed SW, “burn it, burn it, burn it”.
Zippatuh
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halo... I'm with ya too. dump the ego centered and unfair idiotic perk system and let everyone fly the uber planes for a couple of days only in the beggining or end of each tour.
My guess is that the guys who love uber planes so much won't be as happy against other uber planes even tho they will get to fly more actual sorties. They don't care about the planes they just care about having an unfair advantage.
lazs
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I'm am a premeir N1k2 flyer in the MA , most of you already know that. I flew the Ki-84 and A-26 exclusively in AW. After flying AH since beta 1 both these planes have yet to show up, So i fly the N1k2 waiting for my ride to show.
N1K2 CANNOT, repeat CANNOT dictate ANY fight, If you die to a N1K2 you did something wrong in your plane, or I forced you to get stupid and Fight my fight!
It's a good turner but Zeke,yak,KI,spit can out turn it, it's at the bottom of the barrel for speed, It's E retention is good but far from the top, roll rate is not so great. Why the big uproar? You want to turn fight on deck your ponies and LW iron , then you get what you deserve, please don't complain it so uber cause it's not. I also fly the p-47 D30 and Kill N1k2 all day. Learn not to get so stupid with your ride, Relax take your time, the N1k2 surely isn't going anywhere.
NUTTZ
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This is just my humble opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
I think that no plane in the AH inventory should be perked. (Ducks' the inevitable)
Each craft has something to offer. The choice is yours. In the last 3 tours, I've shot more Niks and spits down for the camp then any other craft. Why??? I think maybe it's because I know what they are capable of.
And I know what the craft I'm flying is capable of. Whatever happened to SA and ACM?
Again, the only reason any pilot got, or gets' shot down was he places himself into postion to be shot down!
Also, when you're furballing 200 feet and lower very close to an enemies airbase what do you expect? Stay to long at the party and you'll find yourself in the tower or in the silk.
Again, I feel that none of the planes we have now should be perked imho. However when the 262 shows up it's of the next generation of fighters. And there I do agree with a steep perk cost.
Only one mans' opinion, my two cents!
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Originally posted by Urchin:
Well, I worked out the kill % for the planes in Tour 15 (the tour before the C-Hog got perked).
Total (including bombers, GV's)- 169,563 kills.
F4U-1c: 16.3%
N1K2: 7.64%
Spit9: 6.92%
La7: 4.32%
Once you discard the bombers and GV kills, you are left with 127,903 kills.
F4U-1c: 14.69%
N1K2: 8.15%
Spit9: 7.37%
La7: 4.47%
So, fighter to fighter, the N1K2 is 3% away from where the C-Hog was when it got perked. Including the bombers and GV totals, it is about 4% away.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
so you're saying that HTC bases their perking of planes off of those statistics only? all i see there are some calculations thrown out on the table that are expected to justify your whine.. congratulations.. all you've accomplished is to make me waste my time and type this reply and have a few members think lower of you, myself included. live your life, deal with what happens when it comes.. typing meaningless gibberish in a general forum wont really go far in making a difference to the gameplay.. it'll only make a difference in your reputation as an AH whiner.
<rant mode>
a good pilot should pick his own fights.. if you dont want to deal with the n1k, dont engage it! sure you may get jumped by one with an advantage, but hey, be smart about it and leave the area. if you *know* a n1k could/will anger you, just leave before ya get ticked!! common sense people!!
<.rant mode off>
i hate to seem like i'm picking on ya.. but you're going about your gripes the wrong way.
oct out
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Originally posted by Octavius:
so you're saying that HTC bases their perking of planes off of those statistics only? all i see there are some calculations thrown out on the table that are expected to justify your whine.. congratulations.. all you've accomplished is to make me waste my time and type this reply and have a few members think lower of you, myself included. live your life, deal with what happens when it comes.. typing meaningless gibberish in a general forum wont really go far in making a difference to the gameplay.. it'll only make a difference in your reputation as an AH whiner.
<rant mode>
a good pilot should pick his own fights.. if you dont want to deal with the n1k, dont engage it! sure you may get jumped by one with an advantage, but hey, be smart about it and leave the area. if you *know* a n1k could/will anger you, just leave before ya get ticked!! common sense people!!
<.rant mode off>
i hate to seem like i'm picking on ya.. but you're going about your gripes the wrong way.
oct out
Well, I posted the stats in response to a question by Karnak, and then a statement by him later. I believe the initial question was
What percentage of this tour's kills were awarded to the N1K2?
and he later made this statement, in reply to which I attempted to calculate the kill percentage for tour 15.
The F4U-1C was perked because it was getting about 20% of the kills each Tour.
16% of the kills is hardly 20%, at least if you use my normal, old-fashioned math.
I'm pretty much tired of the damn plane. I don't like fighting them, and I've been flying it for the past couple days and I'm sick of flying it. The good news is that I've handed every other N1K2 I've met his ass. Actually, Karnak said something that I found especially telling. It was something along the lines of "I like the N1K2 as the top plane because it is a plane that punishes you for making mistakes by killing you". He actually said what I think there, the PLANE can punish you, the pilot has very little to do with it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The N1K2 is a plane that basically removes pilot skill from the equation. The only time any skill is needed is if you run across another N1K2, then the better pilot will generally win.
I swear to god that I'm flying this plane at 5,000 feet PRAYING that someone will bounce me, because I haven't lost a 1v1 fight against any plane in it yet. I see a P-51 or a P-47 above me, I do everything I can to entice them down, because I know that I've got a better chance of killing them than they do of killing me, even if they bounce me.
When I'm flying in a 109 or a 190, I usually think that I can win against any plane, even if it bounces me, but I'm not anywhere NEAR as confident as I am in the N1K2. In fact, I think the single biggest reason I die in the N1K2 is because I get overconfident and dive into situations (or climb, which is even worse :)) that I would totally avoid in my normal rides.
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I'm beggining to see the point to this thread.... urchin is the best pilot in the arena. I would never have known that without this thread. so i guess there was a point after all. Without this thread i would have had to rely on my arena experiances and would have never come to the correct conclussion.
lazs
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Urhcin, you discount the better turning ability of the spitV and zeke because the n1k2 has speed over them (fair enough).
Yet at the same time, you discount the speed of the faster planes vs the n1k2 because the n1k2 has turning ability over them?
The very qualities that in your apparant opinion make the george better than the ki, slower spits, and a6ms would if applied in the same matter make it not as good as most of the rest of the arena.
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hmm
[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: Qnm ]
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SW and Rip.
Too early for I told you so's. How much support dous urchin have here.
None that I see.
The niki will have some of its perculiarities ironed out and the obvios fact as expressed by Nash that it cannont dictate a fight will become obvios to all.
It does do some anoying things however.
Im not on such solid ground saying you two are wrong as I once was. But I am sure it will not be perked. And I think you two are jumping the gun a little in declaring a win on this one...
we will see...
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Originally posted by Urchin:
The N1K2 is a plane that basically removes pilot skill from the equation.
I swear to god that I'm flying this plane at 5,000 feet PRAYING that someone will bounce me, because I haven't lost a 1v1 fight against any plane in it yet. I see a P-51 or a P-47 above me, I do everything I can to entice them down, because I know that I've got a better chance of killing them than they do of killing me, even if they bounce me.
Lets prove this or disprove it. You have the N1K,I will take the pony or the jug. I will grab more alt than you and we will see how well the "n1k" does.
after that one, I will take a spit5 and you can have the n1k, and lets see what happens then.
up for it? or would you rather just discuss it here?
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Originally posted by Pongo:
SW and Rip.
Too early for I told you so's. How much support dous urchin have here.
None that I see.
The niki will have some of its perculiarities ironed out and the obvios fact as expressed by Nash that it cannont dictate a fight will become obvios to all.
It does do some anoying things however.
Im not on such solid ground saying you two are wrong as I once was. But I am sure it will not be perked. And I think you two are jumping the gun a little in declaring a win on this one...
we will see...
Fixing the flight model and perking it equates the same answer...some whined, and its been addressed.(or will be soon) We're always right Pongo, you being Canadian should know that. :)
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Pongo... you must have missed those numerous threads from when the F4U-1C was perked.
A little search of the Aircraft/Vehicles forum, GamePlay forum and this here forum will help you get a better picture.
You are right, he doesn't have much support in this thread- BUT he has support from numerous other threads.
Oh and yes the search function does exist: Happy hunting! http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search)
I told ya so!
-SW
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BTW, I never said anyone won.
The amount of whining transferred from the F4U-1C to the N1K2-- and from pretty much the same people.
I said they'd find the next plane with advantages (real or not) and start a witch hunt.
So, I'm not wrong.
-SW
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SWulfe,
I wanted the F4U-1C to be perked and I'm happy that it was and is.
I have very consistantly argued against perking the N1K2-J (and Spitfire MkIX when that has come up).
There is no non-perked aircraft in AH that I want to see perked.
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"Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?"
They'll probably switch to whichever plane the planewhiners switch to whining about.
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Lets prove this or disprove it. You have the N1K,I will take the pony or the jug. I will grab more alt than you and we will see how well the "n1k" does.
after that one, I will take a spit5 and you can have the n1k, and lets see what happens then.
up for it? or would you rather just discuss it here?
Absolutely Ammo, I'll do it. I looked for you today, but you haven't been on yet I guess. What time do you normally play at?
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well, I try to get on in the evenings, but lately with school starting, I am giving my kids some attention that would normally be AH time. I will try to be on tonite after chruch, or tommorow before/after TOD.
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I am sitting here at work reading this post and asking myself..."why aren't these guys flying?" I would love to fight a N1K right now! :)
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Originally posted by funkedup:
"Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?"
They'll probably switch to whichever plane the planewhiners switch to whining about.
Yep, that will be the LA7. And after that the pony or spit.
Lastnight I ran into maby 2 or 3 NIK2's and about a dozzen Pony's. Perk the Pony!
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I have a really good reason for the N1K, spit and la7 to be perked. Its called using the other fediddleing planes (ac diversity), first time I saw a 202 in the arena it took me a while to figure out what the hell it was, how many you see? how many la5's, how many typhs you see, p47's, sturmoviks? All I see is fediddleing n1k's, spits n la7's.
Every time I take a 202 up to add some variety, some idiot no matter which plane it is, ho's me, even spits and n1ks which could otherwise outturn me, outrun me and outgun me. Why?, not because they want a quick kill, its because they're so many other easy mode freeking planes in the ma they're scared someone else is gonna get me first. So fek you, you wanna fly your stupid easy mode planes, go ahead, gonna fly my real planes n kill ya dumb tulips with skill not BS.
he he
:mad:
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So fek you, you wanna fly your stupid easy mode planes, go ahead, gonna fly my real planes n kill ya dumb tulips with skill not BS
So are you saying you don't want anyone to fly the good planes anymore, because you fly planes for the challenge?
Wouldn't this be taking the challenge out of your planes and replacing it with a new, lower easymode bar?
I get it, you like the challenge, you just want it to be easier.
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Zygote, just keep flying the CT. You can stare at 109s and 190s all day long in your Tiffie. :) (when there's someone on to shoot at that is. :( )
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No Fatty, not saying these planes should no longer be used, I'm saying they should be perked to control their numbers. There are too many in the MA imo, its boooooorrrrrring.
Bloody boring, spit spit, la7, spit, spit, n1k, n1k, n1k, spit, spit, wow P47, spit ...
What don't ya understand about that m8?
And Nifty, what you on about? Combat arena is cool, unpopulated? No N1K's apparently.
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Zygote,
OK, say you've perked the top 4. The N1K2-J, Spitfire MkIX, P-51D and La-7. The numbers of those aircraft have been halved or more.
Now there is (in you're style of talking) nothing but F4U-1Ds, Fw190D-9s, Bf109G-10s and Typhoons. What do you do? Perk those?
Now there is nothing but P-47D-30s, Spitfire MkVbs, Ki61-I-KAIs and F6F-5s. Perk those now?
Where does it stop? At what point does an aircraft need to be perked? Your threshold seems the be below 7.5% as the La-7 is less than 7.5% of the aircraft seen in the MA IIRC.
Following that logic you will arrive at a MA that is nearly 50% C.202s, People just trying to shoot down enough C.202s to earn that awesome perk A6M5b Zero-Sen.
I don't want an arena of C.202s.
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"D*mmit Jim! I'm a Dictator, not a DOCTOR!"
The continual appeals of those who want to dictate what other people fly or find enjoyable never cease to amaze and amuse me.
My turn:
I want an arena where I can designate a target with a single keyboard key and then lock his autopilot into straight and level flight with another keypress. :)
But I don't want anyone else to have this capability. Just me.
I think this is just as fair and equitable a request as the tear-filled pleas to make the arena more diverse by having everyone fly what a particular player thinks "those other guys" should fly.
:rolleyes:
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damn.. 101 again..
altho this might be the only post with any real value!! +)
SKurj
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StSanta: DIE N1K DWEEB!<
Hazed: Hey look, a chute!
Kirin: It's MINE.
Glassess: I'll race ya
StSanta: Get outta my way, killshooter is on.
<sound of cannons being fired>
Kirin and StSanta: GET OUTTA MY WAY
StSanta: Stupid killshooter. Where's my wing?
Kirin: Probably the same place as my elevators
Aaaah, how I love killing N1K's :D
The 190A5 is the most bestest plane out there. Live with it.
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N1K ? The most dangerous thing it can do vs D-9 is to follow it for 2 sectors to the base only to die in ack. It doesn't fight in the same vein as 190 and thus it ain't dangerous.
BTW, bring Ki-84 to AH !! And Spit XIV ! Now that would raise the stakes. And whine factor would skyrocket ;).
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I'm glad that my inferiority complex is not yet so great that it affects what type of airplane I choose to fly in a video game .
[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Suave1 ]
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Karnak, the chog is perked, yet people are still flying them, difference is they're not everwhere. Anyway I'm not saying, perk the N1K, perk the spit, perk the la7, p51, i'm saying PERHAPS they should be perked, which is only one opinion among many, obviously I might be wrong and perking might not be the answer. However, as everyone should be aware, they represent the majority of planes in the ma and that makes for a rather boring online gaming experience.
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normaly I would be there with U on the NIK whine but I am all for leaving the NIk as is there great Perk- booster points when Vulching a NewB in it I really enjoy killing them in a Typhoon or any other faster than NIK plane. Oh and I to have seen a HUGE number of 190A- and D9 models and a few 109Fs and G2/6s I like seeing those more because the LW pilots who fly them R for the most part skilled enough to make it a fun fight win lose or draw.
L.Hodo AKA Hodo
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Bump for the history books perk the niki and the LA7 and the K4 nurf the yak3 :bhead
that is all... and please take a moment to read this acient text!
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Bump for the history books perk the niki and the LA7 and the K4 nurf the yak3 :bhead
that is all... and please take a moment to read this acient text!
N1k has pretty subpar performance(especially at altitude) and the K4 has one of the most unreliable gun packages in the game. Both the LA7 and K4 have a pretty limited range of mission profiles
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Wow a thread I posted a reply in 14 years ago!
Ah the good old days of the unpoliced forum and chute shooting.
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Locked for violation of forum posting rule #10.