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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: ares473 on December 07, 2010, 12:34:01 PM

Title: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: ares473 on December 07, 2010, 12:34:01 PM
I was doing some reading on my favorite plane the P-40 and the N variant would be a great addition for the P-40 line and would for those who like driving the P-40 airframe it would give them more of a chance in Late War. The P-40N has a higher external stores load, improved rear visibility, extended range w/o drop tanks, improved rate of climb, and higher top speed. It can also be made available in four or six gun configurations as the player chooses and was the case in the field. The 4 gun configuration having more speed and improved ROC of course. Just a thought to help round out the P-40 line since whe have what 5 P-47 variants.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: alpini13 on December 07, 2010, 12:54:37 PM
+1 yes final production model with wide range of ords and guns???  yes i think so,we need it!
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Slade on December 07, 2010, 02:13:08 PM
+1   :rock
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 07, 2010, 02:20:05 PM
Why do we need it?

I can think of two major reasons why we would need an aircraft, it can do something no other aircraft can or it did something historical. P-40N did not do anything.
If the only reasons are that it's better than the E model and we have 5 P-47s then I give it a -1.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Wildcat1 on December 07, 2010, 02:21:52 PM
yep, mach hit the nail on the head. this topic has been brought up numerous times, all to be flamed because the
-N just doesnt fill in any role not already filled in by other a/c in game
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 07, 2010, 02:40:24 PM
yep, mach hit the nail on the head. this topic has been brought up numerous times, all to be flamed because the
-N just doesnt fill in any role not already filled in by other a/c in game

Also, IIRC, with all the extra ords and whatnot, it actually performs worse, if not the same, as the P-40E in game now.

IIRC, again, they removed two of the guns to offset the added weight.


wrongway
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: TwinBoom on December 07, 2010, 03:56:12 PM
Why do we need it?

I can think of two major reasons why we would need an aircraft, it can do something no other aircraft can or it did something historical. P-40N did not do anything.
If the only reasons are that it's better than the E model and we have 5 P-47s then I give it a -1.

Also, IIRC, with all the extra ords and whatnot, it actually performs worse, if not the same, as the P-40E in game now.

IIRC, again, they removed two of the guns to offset the added weight.


wrongway

always raining on guys parades
(http://www.blueplanetgreenliving.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/marching-with-johnmanning.jpg)
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 07, 2010, 04:02:24 PM
always raining on guys parades
(http://www.blueplanetgreenliving.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/marching-with-johnmanning.jpg)

I'm just trying to figure out why do we need it? If someone wants it bad enough I'm sure they can come up with a good reason for it.

So do you support that idea TwinBoom? If so please explain why, if not I don't know why you posted that.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: TwinBoom on December 07, 2010, 04:15:37 PM
why do we need the HE-111????? the ju88 out performs it
its a wish list just an example

+1 for and other 40
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: crazierthanu on December 07, 2010, 04:17:46 PM
I thought the reason we added planes was to add variety and spice to the game?

I wouldn't mind it, would probably enjoy flying it once in a while.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: TwinBoom on December 07, 2010, 04:20:02 PM
I thought the reason we added planes was to add variety and spice to the game?

I wouldn't mind it, would probably enjoy flying it once in a while.

he gets it
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 07, 2010, 04:34:52 PM
why do we need the HE-111????? the ju88 out performs it
its a wish list just an example

+1 for and other 40

HE-111 is a lot more famous and fought the Battle of Britain. I have absolutely no idea what P-40N did.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Soulyss on December 07, 2010, 04:35:12 PM
The P-40 line deserves a facelift/remodel as much as any plane that served with British in North Africa, the Soviets in the east, & the US, Australian, and New Zealand forces in the South and Southwest Pacific.

Hard pressed to call the contributions the P-40 made in general as "minor".

According to America's Hundred thousand if you count all the variants of the N (-1 through -40) model P-40 over 5200 were produced.  The N-1 was first delivered in March 1943 and the N-40 was delivered in October 1944.  The first victory for the type was scored by the RAF in Libya on 6/8/41 and it was flown by allied forces through 1945, the last entry in the time line here says that the RAAF bombed it's final targets in Borneo on 7/23/45.



Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 07, 2010, 04:44:29 PM
Remodel of the current P-40s that we have is indeed needed, soon. But there are a lot of other planes that I believe should come before the addition of P-40N.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: caldera on December 07, 2010, 05:10:37 PM
HE-111 is a lot more famous and fought the Battle of Britain. I have absolutely no idea what P-40N did.

So did the Spit I and you see how much that gets used.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 07, 2010, 05:33:51 PM
So did the Spit I and you see how much that gets used.

Well I believe that's how often P-40N will be used as it's not much better than the other P-40s that are not used.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: ink on December 07, 2010, 05:52:56 PM
P-40 is my favorite plane, if they added the N I would check it out, if it was somewhat capable in MA i would fly it xclusivly love the thing think its the best looking prop of all....just wish it performed like a KI-84 or along those lines......I highly doubt the N is up there....:-(
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: caldera on December 07, 2010, 05:53:59 PM
Late War Tour 130:

Spit I  kills in - 180 ( and I had the most at 35  :D)

P-40B  kills in -59 

P-40E  kills in - 988

As you can see, the P-40E gets used a fair amount despite being a "lesser" ride.  The B model is the most challenging plane in the set (IMO) and only masochists fly it.  I flew the Spit I last tour and found it to be the only Spit model that offers any challenge, even for a hack like me.
It is still a very dangerous plane to anyone who slows down to fight it, yet it gets used almost as little as the P-40B does. 

After a month or two, the He-111 will get used less than the Boston.  The P-40N will get used as much or more as the E model.  Especially since it would likely mean an update of the P-40 graphics.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: TwinBoom on December 07, 2010, 05:57:10 PM
4 gun variant could hit 380mph
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: DEECONX on December 07, 2010, 07:12:52 PM
Seems the Royal Australian Airforce made good use of them, or so Wiki says... :bolt:
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 07, 2010, 07:26:23 PM
Especially since it would likely mean an update of the P-40 graphics.

I bet all P-40s will be used more if HTC updates the graphics.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Karnak on December 07, 2010, 07:36:12 PM
I bet all P-40s will be used more if HTC updates the graphics.
Not much.  The Mosquito Mk VI got an update that not only brought its graphics up to AH2 standards, but also added 19mph on the deck to its speed.  It carries four Hispano Mk II 20mm cannon in the nose, probably the best air-to-air gun package in the game, and can do 357mph on the deck.

Its usage scarcely moved.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: EagleDNY on December 07, 2010, 08:31:55 PM
+1 - maybe it would get used more if we had a variant that was more competitive in the MA
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 07, 2010, 08:45:05 PM
Not much.  The Mosquito Mk VI got an update that not only brought its graphics up to AH2 standards, but also added 19mph on the deck to its speed.  It carries four Hispano Mk II 20mm cannon in the nose, probably the best air-to-air gun package in the game, and can do 357mph on the deck.

Its usage scarcely moved.

I have to disagree. Before the update I used to see one a month, now I usually see one per day and I fly it myself quite often.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Karnak on December 07, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
I have to disagree. Before the update I used to see one a month, now I usually see one per day and I fly it myself quite often.

Last two complete tours before the Mosquito was updated:

Tour 123, 4103 Kills, 4664 Deaths

Tour 122, 3898 Kills, 4485 Deaths

The most recent two complete tours:

Tour 130, 3047 Kills, 3136 Deaths

Tour 129, 2990 Kills, 3159 Deaths
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Krusty on December 07, 2010, 10:03:44 PM
4 gun variant could hit 380mph

Not... quite...

Only about 400 of the 4-gun versions were made. They also reduced the fuel onboard to gain this performance. Only problem is they didn't consult the folks FLYING them. The pilots actually wanted those guns and gallons back, so they were put back. In the end with all the bomb racks and extra weight, the most common export versions (to the Kiwis and the Soviets) had the extra guns, gas, and bomb racks, taking them from being 10mph faster than the P-40L to being 18mph slower than the L. The latest version with the most ground pounding capabilities was a whopping 25mph slower than the L. These were by far the most numerous.

Almost all but a small handful of the US P-40Ns were state-side trainers. That small handful may not have even seen the enemy (CAP over Burma)

I'd say AH could use a P-40N but mostly as a ground-attack bird. That would mean the heavier, slower, but more capable version.

To quote myself from an earlier thread:

Turns out the performance gap was smaller than I thought. I was expecting less than 10mph, not "2" mph in most cases.

[snip]

P-40B top speed was 352mph (with 1040hp Allison)
P-40E top speed was 362mph (with 1150hp Allison)
P-40F top speed was 364mph (with 1300hp Merlin 28)
P-40K top speed was 362mph (with 1325hp Allison)
P-40L top speed was 368mph (with 1300hp Merlin 28) *
P-40M was a P-40K but went back to Allison engines (Merlins scarce)
P-40N-1 top speed was 378mph (with 1200hp Allison) **
P-40N-5 top speed was 350mph (with 1200hp Allison) ***
P-40N-15 top speed was 343mph (with 1200hp Allison)

Note the Merlins FTH alt was 19k or so, and the Allison alt was 16k or so. The curves wouldn't be too different, just shifted up. Going from 1100 to 1300hp seems to have almost no effect on this airframe. It was draggy IMO, and couldn't get much faster no matter what engine you put into it.

* = The L was a stripped down version. They removed 250lbs of fuel, ammo, and guns, but all this only netted "a mere 4 mph faster" than the previous version. Other wise identical to P-40F-5 Merlin model.

** = The P-40N-1 had a lightened structure, 31 gallons less fuel, only 4 guns, and only 200 rounds per gun. 400 were built like this. It was only about 10mph faster, yet was the fastest production model P-40.

*** = The P-40N-5 put the guns and ammo back, as pilots complained it couldn't get the job done. It added bomb racks and could carry underwing bombs as well as drop tanks. The extra weight not only dropped the speed back down, but it actually was slower than previous models! This model was exported heavily (1000 to the VVS, and a number to RAAF/RNZAF/etc units). It was used for ground attack and bomber escort missions, but in US service it was only used as a trainer according to a couple of things I've read.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 07, 2010, 10:12:52 PM
+1 - maybe it would get used more if we had a variant that was more competitive in the MA

But, more than likely, it would not perform any better in the MA.  The 380mph P-40N was a 4 gun, lightweight model.  No bombs.  Perhaps even less armor.  I haven't found that info yet.

why do we need the HE-111????? the ju88 out performs it
its a wish list just an example
I thought the reason we added planes was to add variety and spice to the game?

I wouldn't mind it, would probably enjoy flying it once in a while.

The He111 and Ju88 are different aircraft with different capacities and different performance.  What would a P-40N add that a P-40E cannot fulfill?

Remodel of the current P-40s that we have is indeed needed, soon. But there are a lot of other planes that I believe should come before the addition of P-40N.

What Mach said.



wrongway

Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Guppy35 on December 08, 2010, 01:38:14 AM
Why do we need it?

I can think of two major reasons why we would need an aircraft, it can do something no other aircraft can or it did something historical. P-40N did not do anything.
If the only reasons are that it's better than the E model and we have 5 P-47s then I give it a -1.

This could be about the dumbest response yet.  Think of Spitfire models and their differences  The P40N is a different P40, just as the Merlin P40s would be.  Anyone paying any attention to the history would note the differences, who used them, where they were used etc. 

I don't mind the argument that other birds should be added first, but that it didn't do anything historical is just silly.  I suggest checking out the 5th Air Force use, the RAAF, the USAAF in China Burma India etc.

You'd be better off arguing that the E is pointless and the N is more important as there were 5215 P40N delivered vs 2320 P40E.  The N saw a lot more combat and were around a lot longer.

If you really want to do it right, the AH P40 lineup would include the B/C Tomahawks, the Kittyhawks E and N, and the Merlin engined Warhawks F and L.

The skinners would be busy for years doing all the different skins available for that line up.

Consider it the same as having the Spit I, V, VIII, IX, XIV and XVI.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Rolex on December 08, 2010, 02:55:36 AM
I wish we filled holes in Axis plane set before adding yet another Allied plane.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: oboe on December 08, 2010, 06:34:31 AM
I wish we filled holes in Axis plane set before adding yet another Allied plane.

Rolex! How are you man?   Good to hear from you. 

I love the P-40 series and look forward to an N someday, but +1 on filling Axis planeset holes first (especially the Japanese).
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: B4Buster on December 08, 2010, 09:38:02 AM
This would be a neat addition someday, after some gaps are filled, and the current P-40 model gets a make over.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 08, 2010, 12:41:49 PM
This could be about the dumbest response yet.  Think of Spitfire models and their differences  The P40N is a different P40, just as the Merlin P40s would be.  Anyone paying any attention to the history would note the differences, who used them, where they were used etc. 

I don't mind the argument that other birds should be added first, but that it didn't do anything historical is just silly.  I suggest checking out the 5th Air Force use, the RAAF, the USAAF in China Burma India etc.

You'd be better off arguing that the E is pointless and the N is more important as there were 5215 P40N delivered vs 2320 P40E.  The N saw a lot more combat and were around a lot longer.

If you really want to do it right, the AH P40 lineup would include the B/C Tomahawks, the Kittyhawks E and N, and the Merlin engined Warhawks F and L.

The skinners would be busy for years doing all the different skins available for that line up.

Consider it the same as having the Spit I, V, VIII, IX, XIV and XVI.

Alright, well would it be able to do anything that the E model can not?
I'm not familiar with the specific specs. 
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Guppy35 on December 08, 2010, 04:06:20 PM
Alright, well would it be able to do anything that the E model can not?
I'm not familiar with the specific specs. 

Look at it similar to the Spit VIII and Spit IX. Slight performance differences, yet cover much different turf historically.  Historically the N model covered the 43-45 time frame.  The E's were gone for the most part as they were 41-42.  In terms of scenarios, skinning, snapshots etc it would be much more historically accurate. 

It was a better performer too.  Don Lopez, who was an Ace in the CBI and later director of the NASM, said in his book "Into the Teeth of the Tiger" that the N actually performed better then the 51 at certain altitudes they fought at, and he flew both in combat.

The RAAF had over 500 N models.  Again the skinners would be busy.  The white tailed 5th AF P40s in general are all Ns.  You want a natural metal P40?  Gonna be an N model again.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: MachFly on December 08, 2010, 04:11:28 PM
Well I guess when they remodel the P-40, N would be a good addition. However it should not be on the top of the priority list.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Guppy35 on December 08, 2010, 04:15:56 PM
Well I guess when they remodel the P-40, N would be a good addition. However it should not be on the top of the priority list.

No worries on top priority.  That was never my concern.  Just understanding the differences and historical use of the N was what needed to be cleared up.

Lots of holes to be filled first, and of course I want my Beaufighter! :)
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: cactuskooler on December 08, 2010, 04:22:30 PM
This is why we need a P-40N.

(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/13.jpg)
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: LLogann on December 08, 2010, 04:28:26 PM
I know one guy who wants more P40s........

(http://www.rickveitch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/belushi2.jpg)
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: GreenEagle43 on December 09, 2010, 10:29:11 AM
if we get the P-40N why not the P-51A. if the P-40N had major up grades so did the P-51A.it had the Allison engine and four 20mm. so what I'm saying is. this is a wish list. every one has the right to wish for something. heck we are getting the B-29. i don't remember in the history books the there was a massive B-29 raid on Germany.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: B4Buster on December 09, 2010, 10:40:03 AM
Greeneagle, perhaps you should do more research on the 51A. It was not an upgrade. It was an earlier variant, and performed worse than the B and D in game. Its true potential was revealed only when equipped with the Merlin.
Title: Re: How about a late war P-40?
Post by: Soulyss on December 09, 2010, 10:42:35 AM
if we get the P-40N why not the P-51A. if the P-40N had major up grades so did the P-51A.it had the Allison engine and four 20mm. so what I'm saying is. this is a wish list. every one has the right to wish for something. heck we are getting the B-29. i don't remember in the history books the there was a massive B-29 raid on Germany.

This is so full of holes it has to be a troll.