Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Belial on December 08, 2010, 08:09:57 PM

Title: Maps are STALE
Post by: Belial on December 08, 2010, 08:09:57 PM
Maps need to reset every Tuesday like before...this same maps for weeks on end is getting old real fast.

Either reset every Tuesday or make winning the war actually feasible in one weeks time.

That is all
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 08:14:17 PM
HiTech is working on it, don't worry about the furballer tough guy crowd.   :)
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: 321BAR on December 08, 2010, 08:17:35 PM
like grizz said :aok
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Digr1 on December 09, 2010, 12:36:32 AM
hard to win a map in a week since they reset twice a day
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: zack1234 on December 09, 2010, 02:10:31 AM
i woke up this morning and my bread was stale  :old:
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: WyoKId on December 09, 2010, 04:36:24 AM
i woke up this morning and my bread was stale  :old:
nah naaaah nah nah
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: HawkerMKII on December 09, 2010, 07:59:44 AM
If you think maps are STALE, then do something about it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe.....win map.........
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: sunfan1121 on December 09, 2010, 08:04:42 AM
If you think maps are STALE, then do something about it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe.....win map.........
Easier said than done my friend. If this was the AH of years back then I'd agree, but its next to impossible to take a base, let alone a whole map.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Blooz on December 09, 2010, 08:06:09 AM
i woke up this morning and my bread was stale  

nah naaaah nah nah

My coffee was cold....(nah naaaah nah nah)

and the dog ate my mail....(nah naaaah nah nah)


lol...my kind of thread..
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: HawkerMKII on December 09, 2010, 08:07:59 AM
Easier said than done my friend. If this was the AH of years back then I'd agree, but its next to impossible to take a base, let alone a whole map.

Cuz not many players are win z war ....most just want shoot-em up action. Fly 30k above field and pick.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: sunfan1121 on December 09, 2010, 08:11:05 AM
Then why the instant change? It couldn't be the fact that its harder to take the new towns down?
I dunno must be those pesky furballers.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Lusche on December 09, 2010, 08:14:49 AM
Cuz not many players are win z war ....most just want shoot-em up action. Fly 30k above field and pick.


About the same number of people are "win z war" or landgrabbers than before. The rate of captures didn't change because players changed suddenly from one tour to the next.
However, what may happen is that any particular type of players is just leaving after their kind of gameplay has being made significantly more diffiult. But I can't judge if this is already the case.


Wait... I just noticed long time no chart...  :D

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6862/clipboard01cnp.jpg)

(First value (tour 80) was last tour before arena split. Arena scores were split in tour 93, new towns appeared in tour 126, recent LW arena format change was in tour 130.
"Active Player"= every game id with at least one kill or one death)
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Max on December 09, 2010, 09:06:12 AM
Lusche this is my data.

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8302/dochartgraphmsexcel200x.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/dochartgraphmsexcel200x.jpg/)

Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: kvuo75 on December 09, 2010, 09:10:22 AM
hard to win a map in a week since they reset twice a day

they do not "reset", they continue where they left off.


however I agree with the staleness thing.. I am absolutely sick of ndisles in LWB.

Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: tf15pin on December 09, 2010, 09:20:06 AM
I like the look and layout of towns the way they are now but captures require nearly 5x the man hours according to the data presented here. The thing that makes captures so difficult now is the trouble with spotting those one or two last buildings. You all know the ones that are trouble, those little yellow brown colored ones that you have to fly at 50 ft to tell if they are up or down.

A way to fix this would be to have troops be sacrificed to take down buildings. I think for every 2 troops that make it into the map room while buildings are up should take one building down. This would strike a balance between needing such close support to make sure town is down while still keeping captures a more difficult achievement.

So if one building is still up the first two troops count toward taking it down while the other 8 count toward a capture. A second set of goons can be used to finish the capture.

This would require 2 people to bring troops rather than 8 extra jabos to find that one building.

To the issue of this being abused, I dont think anyone would run the 200 troops that it would require to take down a town by this method alone. And mass airdrops of troops would be pretty cool to see anyway.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: groundfeeder on December 09, 2010, 09:41:14 AM
Yeah new maps would be nice, and a occasional leg or torso flying out of a tater hole would be nice too! Don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Tec on December 09, 2010, 11:40:48 AM
FREE T3H D0NUT!!!!!!1


Also, what was that map that was like a 3 pointed star, with long strings of V-bases that were a ways away from the nearest airbases?  Anyone remember that?  I loved that map, not sure why it's out of the rotation.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: SunBat on December 09, 2010, 12:01:23 PM
Cuz not many players are win z war ....most just want shoot-em up action. Fly 30k above field and pick.

pwnt by...

this:


About the same number of people are "win z war" or landgrabbers than before. The rate of captures didn't change because players changed suddenly from one tour to the next.
However, what may happen is that any particular type of players is just leaving after their kind of gameplay has being made significantly more diffiult. But I can't judge if this is already the case.


Wait... I just noticed long time no chart...  :D

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6862/clipboard01cnp.jpg)

(First value (tour 80) was last tour before arena split. Arena scores were split in tour 93, new towns appeared in tour 126, recent LW arena format change was in tour 130.
"Active Player"= every game id with at least one kill or one death)
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: TDeacon on December 09, 2010, 12:35:12 PM
Quote
Also, what was that map that was like a 3 pointed star, with long strings of V-bases that were a ways away from the nearest airbases?  Anyone remember that?  I loved that map, not sure why it's out of the rotation.

You aren't referring to the center island on Ozkansas, are you?  That map is up during prime time, but the center island (tank town) is permanently Rook, so nobody can use it. 

Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Tec on December 09, 2010, 12:36:45 PM
No, not ozkansas.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Lusche on December 09, 2010, 12:42:40 PM
FREE T3H D0NUT!!!!!!1


Also, what was that map that was like a 3 pointed star, with long strings of V-bases that were a ways away from the nearest airbases?  Anyone remember that?

I do remember that map, just not the name at the moment. It was great for tank battles - The best feature (among with the long distance to airfields) where that the Vbases were always grouped in pairs, just like we have it with V135-V136 on Ozkansas. That makes for much quicker and more balanced battles, because no one has the the initial "home turf" advantage over the other.

It was taken down along with all large maps at the big arena split.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: 321BAR on December 09, 2010, 12:50:12 PM
I do remember that map, just not the name at the moment. It was great for tank battles - The best feature (among with the long distance to airfields) where that the Vbases were always grouped in pairs, just like we have it with V135-V136 on Ozkansas. That makes for much quicker and more balanced battles, because no one has the the initial "home turf" advantage over the other.

It was taken down along with all large maps at the big arena split.
love to have it back. and id love the donut map back too
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Tec on December 09, 2010, 12:55:49 PM
I do remember that map, just not the name at the moment. It was great for tank battles - The best feature (among with the long distance to airfields) where that the Vbases were always grouped in pairs, just like we have it with V135-V136 on Ozkansas. That makes for much quicker and more balanced battles, because no one has the the initial "home turf" advantage over the other.

It was taken down along with all large maps at the big arena split.

Was it the same map that had a 10k airfield just west of center?  That always made for some epic battles.

I understand the loss of Pizza with tiles issue, but for these others it doesn't make sense.  People put a lot of effort into making them.  Players enjoy a change of scenery and the unique features of each, so why not put them in the rotation?
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: The Fugitive on December 09, 2010, 04:22:04 PM
Was it the same map that had a 10k airfield just west of center?  That always made for some epic battles.

I understand the loss of Pizza with tiles issue, but for these others it doesn't make sense.  People put a lot of effort into making them.  Players enjoy a change of scenery and the unique features of each, so why not put them in the rotation?

Yes, I think it was Festers map. It might just need a re-work like a few other that were brought up to snuff.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: cobia38 on December 09, 2010, 04:28:21 PM

  AKDesert.... best map ever,would love to see it brought back :cheers:
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: lyric1 on December 09, 2010, 04:29:16 PM
I like the look and layout of towns the way they are now but captures require nearly 5x the man hours according to the data presented here. The thing that makes captures so difficult now is the trouble with spotting those one or two last buildings. You all know the ones that are trouble, those little yellow brown colored ones that you have to fly at 50 ft to tell if they are up or down.

I think the best answer to the problem of what is up & down I think was by the Snailman himself (correct me if I am wrong) Have the red flag lower as buildings go down. No buildings left=no flag. :aok
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: The Fugitive on December 09, 2010, 04:38:25 PM
  AKDesert.... best map ever,would love to see it brought back :cheers:

ya, but the source file for that one are gone so it would have to be a total rebuild.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 05:01:35 PM
The furballers got their way, the base takers are dead...................

How long will the game last?   :uhoh
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 09, 2010, 05:09:53 PM
The furballers got their way, the base takers are dead...................

How long will the game last?   :uhoh

Funny, but bases are still being taken.

Maybe the solo base takers are dead.  Whodathunkit, a multi-player game that takes multi-players to accomplish something.

Also, RE: How long will the game last...  I have intelligence sources that show the Rooks have WMDs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering)



wrongway
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: CptTrips on December 09, 2010, 05:26:28 PM
ya, but the source file for that one are gone so it would have to be a total rebuild.

LoL.  I was digging thru my CD's the other day looking for some source code and found an old backup of the original project and data.  I thought briefly about converting it to the new map format if possible, just for laughs.  If we still had open H2H, I would have, just to irk some people. ;)

But, instead, I just tossed it.   :rofl

Wab
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Oh you gotta see Lusche's chart BrothaMan......... :D

Funny, but bases are still being taken.

Maybe the solo base takers are dead.  Whodathunkit, a multi-player game that takes multi-players to accomplish something.

Also, RE: How long will the game last...  I have intelligence sources that show the Rooks have WMDs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering)



wrongway

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6862/clipboard01cnp.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 09, 2010, 05:50:31 PM
Oh you gotta see Lusche's chart BrothaMan......... :D

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6862/clipboard01cnp.jpg)

And my argument is it takes some effort now.

Before the new towns, I could take a wirb or T-34/76 to town, twice, by myself and kill all the AAA and buildings and get an M-3 or C-47 back in time to take the base.  Solo.

The same with GV fields.  Kill the single soft gun and two hard guns with an M-8, end sortie, and get an M-3.

Now, in the first place, you can almost get a town down with a gv and it starts popping again.  More buildings.
Second, the buildings are spread out.  Like a town.  Everything isn't clumped in the middle.  It's that elusive, final standing structure that is the killer.

Even GV fields with all the extra guns take more time.  That equals more time for detection and a greater risk of failure as well as a greater risk of that one, fatal hit from a hard gun.

The popular, "oh my, the sky is falling!" interpretation of Lusche's chart is people aren't even trying anymore.  While this may be true due to the "it's too hard! :cry" crowd, it could also be attributed to the inability to solo sneak a base any more or the fact that it is harder to take a base now and takes more time and people, i.e. more than one or two.  Hence, base taking has slowed down.  It certainly hasn't ended.

Are there almost twice as many buildings in town now?  <Shock!> According to the chart, it's taking almost twice as long to take bases now.

But, who wants things to be challenging?  It's not even an unrealistic challenge.  It's just different.


wrongway
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 05:53:06 PM
And my argument is it takes some effort now.

Before the new towns, I could take a wirb or T-34/76 to town, twice, by myself and kill all the AAA and buildings and get an M-3 or C-47 back in time to take the base.  Solo.

The same with GV fields.  Kill the single soft gun and two hard guns with an M-8, end sortie, and get an M-3.

Now, in the first place, you can almost get a town down with a gv and it starts popping again.  More buildings.
Second, the buildings are spread out.  Like a town.  Everything isn't clumped in the middle.  It's that elusive, final standing structure that is the killer.

Even GV fields with all the extra guns take more time.  That equals more time for detection and a greater risk of failure as well as a greater risk of that one, fatal hit from a hard gun.

The popular, "oh my, the sky is falling!" interpretation of Lusche's chart is people aren't even trying anymore.  While this may be true due to the "it's too hard! :cry" crowd, it could also be attributed to the inability to solo sneak a base any more or the fact that it is harder to take a base now and takes more time and people, i.e. more than one or two.  Hence, base taking has slowed down.  It certainly hasn't ended.

Are there almost twice as many buildings in town now?  <Shock!> According to the chart, it's taking almost twice as long to take bases now.

But, who wants things to be challenging?  It's not even an unrealistic challenge.  It's just different.


wrongway

With the next release we will be making some adjustments for this. The new town release was never meant to be harder to capture.

HiTech
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 09, 2010, 05:55:17 PM


I know.

The  :cry did enough  :cry ing.

I guess the game is saved then.

whew.


wrongway
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 05:56:25 PM
Grizz ruined it........ I was just fishing.   :neener:

I know.

The  :cry did enough  :cry ing.

I guess the game is saved then.

whew.


wrongway
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: 321BAR on December 09, 2010, 10:01:25 PM
I know.

The  :cry did enough  :cry ing.

I guess the game is saved then.

whew.


wrongway
HiTech also said in that thread that he had not wanted to make base captures harder aka no whining was needed for the fix really. just stats that were ALSO posted there
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 10:20:14 PM
I know.

The  :cry did enough  :cry ing.

I guess the game is saved then.

whew.


wrongway

The only whining I see is from furballers  :cry :cry :cry that the win the war guys are trying to make the game easy.
Now HiTech is taking their side.  :cry :cry :cry
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 10:25:07 PM
How could you even say that?  And why are you not in AvA punk?   :neener:

The only whining I see is from furballers  :cry :cry :cry that the win the war guys are trying to make the game easy.
Now HiTech is taking their side.  :cry :cry :cry
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: MarineUS on December 10, 2010, 03:47:22 AM
It's not even an unrealistic challenge.  It's just different.


wrongway

well, completely leveling a town isn't "realistic" lol

just sayin'
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: twitchy on December 10, 2010, 03:57:06 AM
Quote
The new town release was never meant to be harder to capture.

LOL
Hedge mazes?
Why not have us all spawn into the air at 20k, hell why even bother with bases, or goals for that matter. This game is becomming Galaga.
Stale isn't the word for it.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: MarineUS on December 10, 2010, 04:06:55 AM
LOL
Hedge mazes?
Why not have us all spawn into the air at 20k, hell why even bother with bases, or goals for that matter. This game is becomming Galaga.
Stale isn't the word for it.

 :rock  :aok
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: MonsterZer0 on December 10, 2010, 06:27:21 AM
The number of buildings within a town should represent the type of airfield it belongs too. Keep the towns we have now for large airfields and lower the number of buildings within town for medium and small airfields. Also a building destroyed and one that is still up should be easier to spot.

262's only available on large airfields. The rest of the perk planes limited to medium and large airfields. Small airfields no perk planes. 
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Nightmare on December 10, 2010, 11:01:40 AM
The number of buildings within a town should represent the type of airfield it belongs too. Keep the towns we have now for large airfields and lower the number of buildings within town for medium and small airfields. Also a building destroyed and one that is still up should be easier to spot.

262's only available on large airfields. The rest of the perk planes limited to medium and large airfields. Small airfields no perk planes. 

good idea  :aok
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: rvflyer on December 10, 2010, 11:48:58 AM
Maps need to reset every Tuesday like before...this same maps for weeks on end is getting old real fast.

Either reset every Tuesday or make winning the war actually feasible in one weeks time.

That is all


Whines about maps are stale
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: RufusLeaking on December 10, 2010, 04:40:33 PM
Are there almost twice as many buildings in town now?  <Shock!> According to the chart, it's taking almost twice as long to take bases now.
Ummm... Started around 20-30 'man-hours' and went to 90+ 'man-hours.'       More than twice as much.

If the little outhouse under the tree would be more visible, it would make towns significantly easier to take, but still not back to the previous super easy mode. 

Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: Lusche on December 10, 2010, 04:51:49 PM
Ummm... Started around 20-30 'man-hours' and went to 90+ 'man-hours.'       More than twice as much.


The increase to 90+ hours is being caused by more than just bigger towns. The average played time per captured base is not only influenced by the town size and layout itself, but also heavily depending on the total arena environment. With only a single small map arena at offpeak times, there is much less opportunity to sneak bases. Most bases had traditionally been captured by a few players milking an otherwise almost empty LWB at offpeak times. (The reset frequency for LWB had been much greater than for LWO on the past years). A higher density of players on the frontline means more effort for taking a base is necessary.

So, after town & radar changes, the former time of ~25h/capture for the LW arenas doubled, and after the new arena setup it approximately doubled it again.
Title: Re: Maps are STALE
Post by: SlapShot on December 11, 2010, 08:08:10 AM
LoL.  I was digging thru my CD's the other day looking for some source code and found an old backup of the original project and data.  I thought briefly about converting it to the new map format if possible, just for laughs.  If we still had open H2H, I would have, just to irk some people. ;)

But, instead, I just tossed it.   :rofl

Wab


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooo !!!!

Revive AKDesert.

I loved that map.